A Diesel Hatchback

Lanshane

Hi all,

Just looking for some advice on a second hand diesel (05 - 07) hatchback. What are the best diesel hatchbacks out there? I was thinking of buying an avensis D4D 2L but there are not too many of them around and are pretty scarce on the car websites. I have a couple of kids and will be putting on biggish mileage...Any advice? Thanks all.

thehorse

an excellent car is the focus 1.6 tdci (110bhp) estate. great handling, excellent mpg, comfortable and powerful plus lots of room.

the 110bhp version is available up until 2007 i think. they then only kept the 90bhp 1.6 but theres a 1.8 tdci 115bhp as well which apparently is the best engine of the focus diesels. The ford TDCI engines are brilliant.

i had one, traded it in and after 2 months realised i had made a mistake that i didnt buy another focus estate.

Biro

Not many manufacturers made a hatchback in that segment. Would you consider an Estate? Hatchbacks that I can think of in that class are Mondeo, Mazda 6, Avensis, Vectra... struggling to think of more - did the Laguna come as a hatchback?
Seat Leon is another actually.

Biro

thehorse wrote: »

The ford TDCI engines are brilliant.

That's cause Ford don't make them!
The Focus is a class below.

Lanshane

Hi yes indeed I would consider an estate. Was just looking at the 1.6 & 1.8 focus diesels and they look good. I just want a reliable diesel (best!) with a bit of space than can do 25 to 30 thou miles every year without too much trouble! Thanks to all for your help...Much appreciated.

Biro

Biro wrote: »

, Vectra... struggling to think of more - did the Laguna come as a hatchback?
Seat Leon is another actually.

I thought all Laguna were either estate or hatch, the Leon is a segment below.

EPM

Just to get it out of the way...Octavia - the boot is massive and the 1.9tdi while a little noisy is reliable and exonomical. Also a 2.0 tdi if you want more go. Kinda in between a Focus and Avensis size

Repolho

+1 on the focus

I have the 110 BHP 1.6 diesel and am very happy with it. Getting approx 60mpg. (Mostly 30+ mile journey and I don't drive it hard).

Eccles

You might be wise to consider paying a bit more for a 08 or 09 model to avail of the greatly reduced annual road tax for a diesel(CO2 vs CC).OR if you import one also you will pay the 'modern rate' even if its an 05 model as far as I know...Check it out ...These annual road tax changes revolutionised the market...I dont know how anybody can sell used unregistered imported Imprezas ,MX5s or even MINIs!!!At least a grand a year tax -if not two in the case of the Impreza???

R.O.R

You should be able to pick up a relatively high spec, older model Mondeo for decent money. Reliable, fairly good economy from the diesel engine, spacious enough for the family and a nice place to rack up big mileage.

Servicing is cheap and if it does break down, doesn't cost much to fix.


I.E.
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Ford/Mondeo/2.0TDCI/200932194844997/advert?channel=CARS

That's one of the run out Platinum models before the current shape was launched. Fairly basic spec and it's probably on the 90ps engine (you should be aiming for the 115 or 130 ps engines) but the standard spec isn't too bad. A/C, Front Elec Windows, Steering wheel controls for the radio.

Lanshane

Yes I current have a passat 1.9 TDI, while being very good on juice and comfort, has been very poor on electrics and especially the complicated poor design of their suspension system...constant ball joint failings etc. As the octavia are much the same I shall stay away...

Eccles

Eccles wrote: »

OR if you import one also you will pay the 'modern rate' even if its an 05 model as far as I know...Check it out ...These annual road tax changes revolutionised the market...I dont know how anybody can sell used unregistered imported Imprezas ,MX5s or even MINIs!!!At least a grand a year tax -if not two in the case of the Impreza???

Wrong wrong wrong
Old Impreza imported now taxed as a 2.0 under the old cc regime.
Old efficient diesel imported now also taxed under cc.

NOT emissions

redved

Eccles wrote: »

You might be wise to consider paying a bit more for a 08 or 09 model to avail of the greatly reduced annual road tax for a diesel(CO2 vs CC).OR if you import one also you will pay the 'modern rate' even if its an 05 model as far as I know...Check it out ...QUOTE]

can anyone confirm this? I imported a 05 Citroen C4 1.6 HDTI last week. The motor tax rate is the old one. As you say theres a big difference between the two

EPM

Only post 08 cars can avail of cheaper motor tax rates. Pre 08 use older system.

All newly registered cars are charged VRT based on emissions.

Kenny_D

CO2 rates only for 2008 or newer:

http://www.vrt.ie/roadTax.php

squod

Repolho wrote: »

+1 on the focus

I have the 110 BHP 1.6 diesel and am very happy with it. Getting approx 60mpg. (Mostly 30+ mile journey and I don't drive it hard).

+1

Ford focus 1.6 diesel. Streets ahead of most any cars out there.

Or failing that a diesel mondeo.

coup1917

squod wrote: »

+1

Ford focus 1.6 diesel. Streets ahead of most any cars out there.

Or failing that a diesel mondeo.

Agree, Ford Focus Sport 1.6Diesel is the most economical I've had...
Its 07 and imported........paid cheaper VRT but its on old Tax rates...

Biro

RoverJames wrote: »

I thought all Laguna were either estate or hatch, the Leon is a segment below.

Sorry, you're right, I meant the Toledo. The old one was in the Octavia/Bora class, but the new Toledo would be considered in the segment above.

Lanshane

Thanks all, looks like Ford is winning this hands down....I have heard they have excellent diesel engines. Seems to be plenty around also and not too pricey. If anyone has other opinions please let me know. Thanks all:)

Biro

Lanshane wrote: »

Thanks all, looks like Ford is winning this hands down....I have heard they have excellent diesel engines. Seems to be plenty around also and not too pricey. If anyone has other opinions please let me know. Thanks all:)

They have excellent diesel engines because they're using the PSA group ones, same ones fitted to the Mazda 3, also worth a look. Focus is a step down from an Avensis. Whats your budget?

Zube

Biro wrote: »

Focus is a step down from an Avensis.

In size, yes. To drive, the Focus is a league ahead of the Avensis.

Lanshane

Biro wrote: »

They have excellent diesel engines because they're using the PSA group ones, same ones fitted to the Mazda 3, also worth a look. Focus is a step down from an Avensis. Whats your budget?

I hope to keep the budget below 13.

Biro

Zube wrote: »

In size, yes. To drive, the Focus is a league ahead of the Avensis.

Very true, but the Avensis would be more comfortable on a long trip, so depends on the requirements of the OP.

Henry Ford III

Biro wrote: »

That's cause Ford don't make them (TDCI)!
The Focus is a class below.

TDCI/HDI units were jointly developed with Peugeot.

Biro

Henry Ford III wrote: »

TDCI/HDI units were jointly developed with Peugeot.

The joint part was from a financial agreement most likely. Ford never had a decent diesel. Very rarely had a decent engine really.

thehorse

Biro - the TDCI engines in ford cars are jointly developed by Ford & peugeot. That is FACT

The 1.8 TDCI engine in the focus is a FORD engine and it is better than the 1.6 engine. I am a mechanic myself.

The recent ford diesel engines are amongst the best you can buy. FACT.

Zube

thehorse wrote: »

Biro - the TDCI engines in ford cars are jointly developed by Ford & peugeot. That is FACT

You'd better update Wikipedia, so:

Based on the PSA DW10 engine and with a capacity of 1997cc, this engine was developed by Peugeot engineers in France on behalf of both PSA and Ford Motor Company.

Zube

thehorse wrote: »

The recent ford diesel engines are amongst the best you can buy. FACT.

By the way, writing "fact" in caps and underlining it does not, in fact, add any authority to your assertions.

Biro

thehorse wrote: »

Biro - the TDCI engines in ford cars are jointly developed by Ford & peugeot. That is FACT

The 1.8 TDCI engine in the focus is a FORD engine and it is better than the 1.6 engine. I am a mechanic myself.

The recent ford diesel engines are amongst the best you can buy. FACT.

Rubbish. All of it!

mac09

thehorse wrote: »

Biro - the TDCI engines in ford cars are jointly developed by Ford & peugeot. That is FACT

The 1.8 TDCI engine in the focus is a FORD engine and it is better than the 1.6 engine. I am a mechanic myself.

The recent ford diesel engines are amongst the best you can buy. FACT.

seems to contradict previous discussions on the ford focus

Zonda999 wrote: »

The situation with the diesels in the focus is indeed odd. Over in the UK, they have the choice between the 1.6 with 110bhp(119g/km CO2), and the 1.8 with 115bhp(137g/km CO2). Despite the 1.6 having less power, it is most certainly the better engine, much smoother power delivery and better fuel economy. They can also choose a 2.0 TDCi with 135bhp(144g/km CO2), also available with the powershift auto option

Over here however, we have considerably less choice. Over here you can get the same 1.8 TDCi as the UK(156€ road tax), or(For no reason i can think of), the 2.0 TDCi powershift auto(No manual option available apparently), DE-TUNED to 110bhp(154g/km CO2) This is very odd because over in the UK, the 136bhp powershift produces exactly the same amount of CO2. This is a pure example of Paddy being screwed for no reason at all!

OP, definitely get either the 110bhp 1.6 or the 136bhp 2.0. The 1.8 is'nt a bad engine but it is outdated compared to the 1.6. Whats more due to the CO2, if you bring in a 08 car, you'll only pay 104€ road tax on a 1.6(302€ on a 2.0), compared to 156€ on a 1.8. Whats more you'll pay less VRT because the VRT bands are also based on CO2 emissions.

As for the question of UK prices pricing, its purely because of the exchange rates. see here for the current new prices of a focus in the UK.

Stevie, your car is now £21,790 list price over in the Uk. Used Prices are bound to rise because of that

holly_johnson

Dodge Caliber ftw if you can get one.
I recently got an 07 2.0L diesel for 13k.
It has a volkswagen diesel engine and I have to say I love it.

thehorse

zube ,

the 2.0 litre TDCI is peugeot built. The 1.6 TDCI is a joint development, thats all in saying, nothing more. The 1.8 is a ford engine and its better than the 1.6

there is talk that the 1.6 tdci engine is going to be dropped shortly from the focus line up as the 1.8 tdci version is easier to tune down in terms of co2 emissions. As you all know, the co2 emissions are getting tighter all the time.

EPM

I thought the 1.6 was at least as reliable as the old 8v 1.8 and nicer to drive

Biro

EPM wrote: »

I thought the 1.6 was at least as reliable as the old 8v 1.8 and nicer to drive

The 1.6 is nicer and a lot quieter than the old 1.8. Haven't experienced the newer version of it though, but if it's really that good then that brings Ford's total good engines in history number to around 3!

Henry Ford III

Big differences between 1.6 and 1.8 TDCI lumps. 1.6 is newer in origin, has twin cams and 16v, and is an alloy block. The 1.8 is sohc, 8 valve and cast iron.

1.6 has a wider powerband, and is a bit more refined.

Biro please stop trolling. Ford's entire engine range is competitive. Historically the sohc Pinto, YB Cosworth turbo, BDA, x flow and several others have been outstanding.

R.O.R

thehorse wrote: »

there is talk that the 1.6 tdci engine is going to be dropped shortly from the focus line up as the 1.8 tdci version is easier to tune down in terms of co2 emissions. As you all know, the co2 emissions are getting tighter all the time.

Where on earth are you getting your information from, 'cos it's wrong!

The 1.6Tdci was dropped from the Focus in July last year due to "production difficulties" (more likely trying to sell 1.4's). A "Free Upgrade" to the 1.8Tdci was given, which is no where near as smooth or nice to drive as the 1.6Tdci - even in 90ps guise. The 1.8Tdci has a horrific flat spot at low revs that the 1.6Tdci doesn't suffer from.

The 1.6Tdci has only recently re-appeard in the Focus Style SIP (Special Incentive Pack), but all those have gone now. The 1.8Tdci has now been discontinued for new orders in the Focus Style and will be re-replaced with the 1.6Tdci, probably in a lower state of CO2 emissions for an ECONETIC version. Not sure about the rest of the trim levels - I'd guess that's the end of the 1.8Tdci and we might get the 2.0Tdci 136 option for the Ghia and Zetec's.

This information is based on trying to order / get hold of Focus's this week.

mullingar

The engine options between here and the UK is disgraceful.

UK options from ford.co.uk:
1.4 Duratec 80 PS Stage IV, 5 Speed Manual
1.6 Duratec 100 PS Stage IV, 4 Speed Automatic
1.6 Duratec 100 PS Stage IV, 5 Speed Manual
1.6 Duratec Ti-VCT 115 S4, 5 Speed Manual
2.0 Duratec 145 PS Stage IV, 5 Speed Manual
2.5 Duratec 225 PS, 6 Speed Manual
1.8 Duratec 125 PS Stage IV, 5 Speed Manual
1.6 TDCi 90 PS Stage IV, 5 Speed Manual
1.6 TDCi 110 PS Stage V, 5 Speed Manual
1.8 TDCi 115 PS Stage IV, 5 Speed Manual
2.0 TDCi 136 PS Stage IV, 6 Speed Manual
2.0 TDCi 136 (DPF), 6 Powershift
2.5 Duratec 305 PS Stage IV, 6 Speed Manual

Ireland from ford.ie:
1.4 Duratec 80 PS, 5 Speed Manual
1.6 Duratec-Ti VCT 115 PS, 5 Speed Manual
1.8 Duratorq TDCi 115 PS, 5 Speed Manual
2.0 Duratorq TDCi 110 PS, Powershift (from August)
2.5 Duratec 225 PS, 6 Speed manual


I got my 06 110bhp focus (climate zetec) few months ago in the UK, cracker of a car of great economy. Now has full cream leather seats with black&cream door cards:D

Henry Ford III

It's a much more limited market I suppose.

p.s. The 2.5 305 ps RS Focus is available here too

Repolho

Oops. Sister just bought a 1.8 TDCi focus. Had a choice between that and a 1.6 focus. (Same year, price and similar mileage & service history).

Told her to go for the 1.8; Did I do her a disservice?

ando

mullingar wrote: »

I got my 06 110bhp focus (climate zetec) few months ago in the UK, cracker of a car of great economy. Now has full cream leather seats with black&cream door cards:D

Do you mind me asking how much the running costs of it are? like how much milage would you do a week, how much would you spend on it? I currently do about 80 miles a day in a 1.8 petrol turbo and its a killer on fuel, so was looking for something like what you have, and all the reviews on this thread are very positive for the 1.6 110 focus. Fast and economic?

mullingar

The Focus is on track to do around 15k between both our driving, it gets an average so far of 53mpg which includes a lot of my 'spirited' driving, it would probably do 60mpg+ if the other half was the only driver.

The engine provides a great mid-range power band and it always amazes me thats it just a 1.6 so its a breeze to overtake trucks.

IMO its the best engine for the car when running costs are a big factor.

And that chassis is amazing on country roads, guaranteed to make you smile!


Anyway, you do 30k/yr, so @ 53mpg it would work out to be around €2,500 / yr diesel, which is less than €50 week to do 560 miles.

My only expense so far was €500 for a mint second hand cream leather interior.