Do you believe in God?

DamoDLK

robby^5 wrote: »

Depends on an individual persons convictions, you cant make sweeping generalisations like that. I for one wont be wasting my last moments praying to an imaginary god on my deathbed for forgiveness, I'll be spending that time around my loved ones thank you very much.

But that "what if" doubt goes two ways you know and personally I'd hate to be in your shoes...imagine being convinced that you'll always exist, that you'll live on in an afterlife forever...now imagine being that deluded your entire life to only end up questioning that belief on your death bed, after all there will always be that "what if" doubt right?

It would be pretty terrifying to have such a comforting idea (an afterlife) put in doubt with very little time to come to terms with the prospect.

Look here sport, i dont have strong convictions on the whole religion/heaven thing.. I'm not for nor against it. I'd be the one somewhat doubting the whole existence to begin with.. but again my point - at the end of the day what else is there to do!?

Don't worry about being in my shoes either chap, i'll be doing the same as yerself, close family and friends and reflecting on a hopefully long, healthy life.

philologos

genericguy wrote: »

I'm a good person because i choose to be, not because someone who i can't see tells me he'll send me to be set on fire forever if i don't.

By what standard do you declare yourself to be good? What is "good", who decides what is "good" from what is "evil"?

If it is you, then isn't it conceivable that I could have a very different perception of what is "good" from what is "evil"? There would be no coherent standard. Good could mean something different to you than what it means to me.

To get anywhere in assessing what is good, we would need an external standard that we could refer to to decide what is "good" for both of us, from what is "evil" for both of us.

When people say "You should know better!" what are they appealing to? There must be a universal standard of what is good, for one to be able to determine what is better than something else.

let me in

There is one in my opinion as a monotheist. - yes but in reality I believe there are a few more gods represented.



Right, but it is quite reasonable to suggest that if things contradict they cannot all be true?- yes,that is my point exactly,all claim to be true.



Even in cases where people have Christian parents they still have to make their own decision.-and strangely enough the vast majority seem to pick the faith of their parents.



We need to repent, and accept that Jesus died for our sins, and aim to change our ways. If we have sincere faith in this forgiveness that Christ has offered us, then yes, there is salvation even for the serial killer if he is truly sorry for what he has done.- this is silly,why are you telling me christs teachings when we're trying to discuss the existence of him as an entity?

DamoDLK

genericguy wrote: »

so do you not believe in allah?

i will not pray on my deathbed, i can assure you. if i was wrong, and evidence was presented, i'd be the first to admit my folly, but the religious will always say when presented with evidence "god put it there". at the end of the day it'd be someone like me getting the manager's job in heaven if it exists, because nobody puts a sheep in charge of anything.

the bottom line of my argument is:

I'm a good person because i choose to be, not because someone who i can't see tells me he'll send me to be set on fire forever if i don't.

You know exactly what i referred to re the Allah point in my last post - He exists to Muslims, who's to say that they are wrong!

And YES ffs i totally agree with your final point there I too feel that i'm a good person because i choose to be! not because i was told to..
This principle is akin to Buddhism.. which out of all religious teaching i most appreciate.

robby^5

DamoDLK wrote: »

i dont have strong convictions on the whole religion/heaven thing.. I'm not for nor against it. I'd be the one somewhat doubting the whole existence to begin with.. but again my point - at the end of the day what else is there to do!?

Don't worry about being in my shoes either, i'll be doing the same as yerself, close family and friends and reflecting on a hopefully long, healthy life.

Edited for less condescending attitude.

So you'll basically be playing the odds, praying on the off chance that god exists?

Thanks but no thanks, just because you cant make up your mind doesnt mean the rest of us cant.

philologos

let me in wrote: »

There is one in my opinion as a monotheist. - yes but in reality I believe there are a few more gods represented.

People may have concepts of ideas of God, but not all of them may be accurate, and not all of them may be in existence. Indeed, there is a possibility that no god exists. Given what I have come to understand of God, I don't feel it is likely.

let me in wrote: »

Right, but it is quite reasonable to suggest that if things contradict they cannot all be true?- yes,that is my point exactly,all claim to be true.

Right, we're in agreement then. I consider Christianity to be true. Just to ask, just because all claim to be true, doesn't mean that all are false either. There is a middle ground. It is possible that there could be truth in the midst of these faiths rather than deeming all are false.

Claiming all are false to me is just as fallacious as saying all are true.

let me in wrote: »

Even in cases where people have Christian parents they still have to make their own decision.-and strangely enough the vast majority seem to pick the faith of their parents.

Indeed, I don't know what your point is though. What are you trying to say?

I tend to think that all people are independent thinkers. The reason many probably choose the faith their parents had is because they are exposed to it more. However, as people are exposed to other ideas, it is also possible that they may choose another faith.

let me in wrote: »

We need to repent, and accept that Jesus died for our sins, and aim to change our ways. If we have sincere faith in this forgiveness that Christ has offered us, then yes, there is salvation even for the serial killer if he is truly sorry for what he has done.- this is silly,why are you telling me christs teachings when we're trying to discuss the existence of him as an entity?

How is it silly? You asked about being saved by works. I told you the Christian line on it. You further questioned the Christian line. This line of argumentation is perfectly warranted. Historically we know that Jesus Christ existed from secular sources such as Josephus, Tactius, Pliny the Younger, and Jewish sources such as the Babylonian Talmud.

I don't need to try and try to get into heaven. Infact that is patently selfish. I've been saved already through grace, not of my own works but by Christ's love.

This encourages me to respond to His grace in a positive way instead of doing it for myself.

DamoDLK

robby^5 wrote: »

Edited for less condescending attitude.

So you'll basically be playing the odds, praying on the off chance that god exists?

Thanks but no thanks.

Condescending!!?? and you the one who pities me for what I like to believe in?!

Fair retaliation imo.

BTW its not a case of making up ones mind.. Nobody knows what happens - only opinions and beliefs.

let me in

Indeed, there is a possibility that no god exists. -thank you jackass,I'm off now:p

Turtwig

Jakkass so you never believed when you were 17?

I find this truly fascinating tbh, most Christians I now know that hold the bible to their heart (I know many that haven't a clue of the thing) are like you. I wish I could understand you, but then again, I think I do.

You were searching for meaning in life and you found it in the power,love and awe of the supernatural. I, like you, hate it when people who haven't read the book slam it with disdain. I got to say when I was younger I read it with more enthusiasm than I've ever had for anything in my life - ever! Strangely enough though my chid like curiosity saw through it and I only wish that I'd documented by thoughts on a sheet of paper or something because they WOULD definitely stir you (I managed to unintentionally convince a priest to question EVERYTHING ). Unfortunately, it is not possible, for me to have that childlike curiosity which is why I hope that reading the book again it will return to me so that someone others can see the delusion of their ways.

Read it from the eye of a child, and that will tell you alot..stop looking at it like it really has to mean something - it doesn't.

The sad thing is that most children never get to read it, they just accept what their parents tell 'em. Hopefully, there'll be the swotty kid in school (ahem:o) who opt to do a project on the bible:D When we become adults we want meaning but we are not curious anymore therefore we're far more susceptible to believing something that eases our mind.

As for praying on my deathbed..
To whom do I pray? In all fairness his NoodlyShip who I believe to be a little Malty seems just as good to me as the Juedo-Christian God. There might be something, but I certainly hope it's my Spaghetti Monster, or a deistic viewpoint -
As someone who, presently, has to face the possibility that they might be terminally ill I couldn't really give a shyte. I had a cool life and if I'm wrong then I'll take hell anyday because Einstein's there :cool: and I always wanted to meet that guy.
Then again, what saddens me the most, is that if I'm RIGHT I'll never be able to tell you I told you so:(

ozzirt

In All Fairness wrote: »

There is and we don't.

So,... there is no god.... because as i said, if there was he would.:rolleyes:

robby^5

DamoDLK wrote: »

Condescending!!?? and you the one who pities me for what I like to believe in?!

Fair retaliation imo.

BTW its not a case of making up ones mind.. Nobody knows what happens - only opinions and beliefs.

If you do not wish your own beliefs to be questioned and criticised then don't make assumptions such that we'll all fall to our knees and pray to god on our deathbeds. Because I wont and I find it terribly condescending of you to say you can guarantee to me that I will go against everything I believe in. It is your choice to pray to god for the sake of it not mine.

I don't pity you and I don't claim to know what happens after death, other than what science tells us about brain death...I have no reason to believe in anything beyond that.

dr.bollocko

This thread has descended into nit-picking a long time ago. Take your arguments to the spirituality forum. Or the atheist forum. Or whichever other forums talk about this stuff because it's making me lose the will to live. And if that happens, at least according to the poll, I'm ****ed.