Do you believe in God?

AthAnRi

BigEejit wrote: »

I dont run down anyones beliefs*, my Dad always is very religious and I respect that. But I dont think that standing/sitting/kneeling in a musty building listening to the orders of a man who I did not vote for is going to bring anyone closer to any deity than being at home browsing porn.



*unless said beliefs are technological in nature -> "your 1 meter 90 euro monster HDMI cable does NOT give a better picture than my 4 euro HDMI cable"

Believe that if you wish. I once thought along similar lines to that but not anymore.

mewso

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

no, but i bet when i'm on my deathbed literally sh1tting myself, i'll be offering myself up to god and jesus and all that is good in heaven, bet most of you will do the same!

Yes indeed God and Jesus welcome con-men into Heaven with open arms. "I'll buy that CD now Your Honour and we'll just forget I downloaded it last year".

I don't believe God exists. I do believe the blokes who wrote the bible existed.

Goduznt Xzst

I think too much emphasis is put on this God character.

Satan, Hell and invisible demons flying around on Earth right now, probably watching you read this and jumping in and out of South American children is much more interesting.

I don't know how Catholics live knowing that every day of their lives invisible demons are behind them, smelling their hair, watching them naked in the shower. Waiting patiently for them to make a mistake so that they can jump into their bodies and take control of them.

People say they believe in a God like that's all they believe. It's all the other whacked out sh!t that they also believe that is much more disturbing.

philologos

mewso wrote: »

I don't believe God exists. I do believe the blokes who wrote the bible existed.

How does one explain what they experienced?

TanG411

TheZohan wrote: »

So if you support Leeds United and think they'll win the Premiership in the next 5 years does that give people the right to call you retarded?

Yes

TanG411

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Don't post in this thread again unless you have something to add other than the above trolling.

Not trolling. Just giving an opinion. I wouldn't see it as trolling. Trolls write stuff just to cause a fight. I wasn't starting one.

Plus trolls always seem to have about 1 or 2 post counts. They rarely sign onto their trolling site. I sign into boards everyday because my real life is crap.

Sticking with thread, I still don't believe in God. It was created to ease the pain of bereavent and to give false hope.

Long Onion

God was a good idea until he was hijacked by organised religion. For me the reason that it doesn't work is that people insist on building a defined set of rules around something which is by nature, incapable of being defined.

God is what ever you want it to be, organised religion is generally a pain in the arse.

CRonaldo

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Banned

Infracted

philologos

Long Onion wrote: »

God was a good idea until he was hijacked by organised religion. For me the reason that it doesn't work is that people insist on building a defined set of rules around something which is by nature, incaple of being defined.

One has to realise that the church isn't infallible, it is capable of making mistakes. Nobody is perfect. The Biblical text, is different, it is the standard we aim to reach as Christians.

As for rules, is it really all that inconceivable that God who created the world in benevolence to us gave us rules and tenets about how best to live our lives both for Him and for other people in our communities?

Long Onion wrote: »

God is what ever you want it to be, organised religion is generally a pain in the arse.

Although this is a nice thought. How can so many contradictory ideas about God all be true?

Dardania

I have faith, but not religion

Where does your thought process go when the body dies? does it die with the body, or does it go somewhere else?

hoochio

I don't particularly believe in a higher being. I think people just have an inherent need to believe in something so that their entire life wasn't a waste. I think we're born, we live our lives to the way we want, enjoy our time with friends and family, try not to have too many regrets and not try to push any beliefs onto other people who are sick of listening to "superior" minds at work!

Four-Percent

Oooo, look at me, I'm really cool, I don't like Christians.

Kradock

I beleive there is a God , and pass no apology for it. Neither do I call people who don't believe an idiot or retarded.

Long Onion

Jakkass wrote: »

One has to realise that the church isn't infallible, it is capable of making mistakes. Nobody is perfect. The Biblical text, is different, it is the standard we aim to reach as Christians.

It's funny how all organised religions seem to repeat the same mistakes though.

Jakkass wrote: »

As for rules, is it really all that inconceivable that God who created the world in benevolence to us gave us rules and tenets about how best to live our lives both for Him and for other people in our communities?

Personally I don't buy the "God as the cryptic mysterion" view, I would think that if God wanted everyone to live a certain way, he would just make it so, what is to be gained by a big experiment to see if we can guess the rules?

Jakkass wrote: »

Although this is a nice thought. How can so many contradictory ideas about God all be true.

Ah, you see, you are trying to comprehend God in human terms ...

Cookie_Monster

Jakkass wrote: »

How does one explain what they experienced?

Lots and Lots of opium explains that...

philologos

hoochio wrote: »

I don't particularly believe in a higher being. I think people just have an inherent need to believe in something so that their entire life wasn't a waste. I think we're born, we live our lives to the way we want, enjoy our time with friends and family, try not to have too many regrets and not try to push any beliefs onto other people who are sick of listening to "superior" minds at work!

I understand that evangelism can be frustrating or even annoying for unbelievers, but to understand where the believer is coming from is incredibly important.

I don't think that people convert other people, rather that people sow seeds so that people can be led to God. It's important to us to do this, because we believe that God has given us a gift that can change the lives of people for the better and indeed lead them to eternal life. Although people may be unthankful initially, many testimonies of former unbelievers confirm the view that they are glad that they were led to God.

People wanting other people to live fulfilled lives in communion with their Creator, is that really such a bad aim to have at heart?

My name is URL

Jakkass wrote: »

Interesting, do you believe in a creation?

I believe in a beginning, not a creation

Trying to explain a creator just leads you round in circles... what created the creator?

A beginning is a fixed point, no logical contradictions needed

the_syco

Aye. Just not the ones that are around at the moment.

philologos

Long Onion wrote: »

It's funny how all organised religions seem to repeat the same mistakes though.

All of them? I would attribute this to human failings rather than to the truth of a particular set of beliefs. Jesus is separate from this. I'd fully expect you to reject the church, but to reject Jesus, that's a bit of a leap isn't it?

Long Onion wrote: »

Personally I don't buy the "God as the cryptic mysterion" view, I would think that if God wanted everyone to live a certain way, he would just make it so, what is to be gained by a big experiment to see if we can guess the rules?

Look around you.

God has revealed Himself to every generation, and continues to do so in people right around you. Some could be your friends, some could be your family, some most likely are complete strangers.

There are over 6 billion Bibles in the world, in many different languages.

Christianity isn't about a big set of rules, and you don't have to guess either. It's about a relationship with God. As for finding out what the Christian lifestyle involves, I'd advise you to read the Gospels.

Long Onion wrote: »

Ah, you see, you are trying to comprehend God in human terms ...

In human terms and in spiritual terms, is the only way that belief comes. It is impossible for me to understand belief in the exact same way that God understands belief. This is why God has revealed Himself to us in human and spiritual terms so that we can enter this life changing relationship with him.

mewso

Jakkass wrote: »

How does one explain what they experienced

Give me an inspirational man, some imagination, a little talent for exaggeration, an ability to write semi-coherently, add a sprinkle of 1000-2000 years and hey presto the man I chose may end up being revered. I think I'll go for Derren Brown.

As a believer I'm sure you believe what is written in the bible. Thats fine. I don't accept all of it. On the one hand you have the Old Testament which a lot of Christians would call metaphor rather than accurate history (maybe you do consider it accurate history but I'm not going there) while accepting the New Testament as historical fact. I don't see any harm in asking questions about the accuracy of the New Testament. What bearing the times, the culture, the love some of the people had for the man they followed might have had on what they wrote.

At the end of the day I don't consider it unlikely that a great and inspirational man lived in those days and he had some good ideas but if he thought he was the Son of God then he may also have been a bit mad. That or the media hype went to his head.

Long Onion

Ok Jackass,

Answer me this, If he is so benevolent;

Why doesn't he want me for a sunbeam, and why do Churches have lightening conductors?

I'm going home now Ted.

Flying Abruptly

lol at the tags :pac:

philologos

Long Onion wrote: »

Ok Jackass,

Answer me this, If he is so benevolent;

Why doesn't he want me for a sunbeam, and why do Churches have lightening conductors?

I'm going home now Ted.

Explain to me the relevance? - Look, I'm not here to bother you in particular. I'm just here to say, that Christianity mightn't be all that you think, and you mightn't have it all sussed out. Infact, I don't think I have it all sussed out yet.

Instead of listening to what people have to say to you about it, it is possible to read about Jesus for yourself. That's my main point.

Irishcrx

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

But who made the alien?




This world is far far far far far from perfect

Mmmm in Morality and equality no definatly not.

But in terms of how everything works and has a purpose yes it is perfect. Think of how the air is made to let us breath, how day becomes night, how the earth revolves around the sun to give us heat and light , how food is grown and how it works with our body in feeding them. How our brain is capable of receiving mass information, learning and evolving.

How the rain falls the right amount to provide us with water, the pull of the moon and the ocean, the stars...

I could go on and on but if you actually look at the bigger picture and don't take it for granted. You'll realise a far more powerfull force had to put it in place and watch it grow and not in 7 days either, I don't believe in God but I believe that something somewhere did this.

It's ignorant of us to think were the only ones in the universe or the most intelligent when we can barely see out our back garden and can't even travel any further than the path.

philologos

mewso wrote: »

At the end of the day I don't consider it unlikely that a great and inspirational man lived in those days and he had some good ideas but if he thought he was the Son of God then he may also have been a bit mad. That or the media hype went to his head.

I find it impossible that someone could refer to Jesus as "great and inspirational" if one didn't believe what He said to be truth.

To say you are the Son of God, and that you can forgive sins, and to claim that you can perform miracles is truly something else, and it certainly has the potential to irritate people.

He related to people on the ground, and He inspired people to live for God rather than for themselves, and to have faith, and to serve ones neighbour. However, to get to that point He had to offend a lot of people. He gave the Pharisees some home truths, even referring to them as the children of Satan according to one of the Gospels. He told people that Hell was a reality, and that one would be held accountable at the end of time for every word that came out of their mouths.

I find this claim that Jesus could be "great and inspirational" while saying some of the things He said to be nonsensical for a non-believer.

BigEejit

Jakkass wrote: »

Christianity isn't about a big set of rules, and you don't have to guess either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

True, true.

genericguy

Jakkass wrote: »

How does one explain what they experienced?

until evidence is provided, they didn't experience anything. they wrote stories.

Mossy Monk

I have gone with the popular choice. Phew.

mewso

Jakkass wrote: »

People wanting other people to live fulfilled lives in communion with their Creator, is that really such a bad aim to have at heart?

Remove "in communion with their Creator" and it's a truly fine aim. If a religious group wanted you to live a fulfilled life in communion with their esteemed leader Fat Bob you might take issue with the idea but these people would be 100% certain that fulfillment can only be found on all fours in Fat Bob's "special" room. You want people to be happy, live fulfilled lives? Find out what makes them happy without using tried and tested cult indoctrination techniques to convince them gradually of what will make them happy.

Cookie_Monster

Irishcrx wrote: »

But in terms of how everything works and has a purpose yes it is perfect. Think of how the air is made to let us breath, how day becomes night, how the earth revolves around the sun to give us heat and light , how food is grown and how it works with our body in feeding them. How our brain is capable of receiving mass information, learning and evolving.

How the rain falls the right amount to provide us with water, the pull of the moon and the ocean, the stars...

I could go on and on but if you actually look at the bigger picture and don't take it for granted. You'll realise a far more powerfull force had to put it in place

That would be Physics

We evolved to breath air, the atmosphere on our planet hasn't always been the same as it is now you know

Sam Vimes

Irishcrx wrote: »

Mmmm in Morality and equality no definatly not.

But in terms of how everything works and has a purpose yes it is perfect. Think of how the air is made to let us breath, how day becomes night, how the earth revolves around the sun to give us heat and light , how food is grown and how it works with our body in feeding them. How our brain is capable of receiving mass information, learning and evolving.

How the rain falls the right amount to provide us with water, the pull of the moon and the ocean, the stars...

I could go on and on but if you actually look at the bigger picture and don't take it for granted. You'll realise a far more powerfull force had to put it in place and watch it grow and not in 7 days either, I don't believe in God but I believe that something somewhere did this.

It's ignorant of us to think were the only ones in the universe or the most intelligent when we can barely see out our back garden and can't even travel any further than the path.

But then when you realise that there are roughly 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planets and stars in the universe, it was quite likely that at least one would form at the right distance from the sun etc


If you put a blind fold on and throw a dart at a board you will definitely miss but if you throw it the same number of times as there are planets in the universe you're bound to hit it once

Irishcrx

genericguy wrote: »

until evidence is provided, they didn't experience anything. they wrote stories.

Exactly , all they are is tales and many of the philopshers who are claimed to have documented Jesus have been proven to be forgeries by now. Fact is there is not one shred of hard evidence to prove that he existed or was any son of God and people who aren't sheep need proof not faith were only human.

It's amazing how much the catholic church use fear to command people, set rules and boundries and scare them about things they will never really know anything about.

"God is all forgiving and kind"
"But do this that and the other and your going to hell.....or Purgertoy until you pay the church X ammount and that will determine your time there...remember that one??"

Religion acts in the same way a cult does, has an almighty leader that everyone looks up to and promises you everything if you do things his/there way and theres always an underline intention money/power/control...same dance differant song year after year, decade after decade , generation after generation. Not for me thanks.

philologos

mewso wrote: »

Remove "in communion with their Creator" and it's a truly fine aim. If a religious group wanted you to live a fulfilled life in communion with their esteemed leader Fat Bob you might take issue with the idea but these people would be 100% certain that fulfillment can only be found on all fours in Fat Bob's "special" room. You want people to be happy, live fulfilled lives? Find out what makes them happy without using tried and tested cult indoctrination techniques to convince them gradually of what will make them happy.

This is my problem. I can't remove "in communion with their Creator". If Jesus Christ has died so that the world may be forgiven, that the world may be saved, and that the world may find fulfilled life through Him then it isn't something I can ignore. It is my responsibility not to ignore it.

All we can do is offer, but offering is important. If people want to offer me to come to their faith, I will understand. However, given my views on faith, I can't ignore that Jesus Christ changes lives.

BigEejit wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

True, true.

There are more commandments to be followed than these. However, Christians are saved by grace, not by adherence to rules. If we fail, it is okay if we are truly sorry and we are willing to try again. That's what grace is.

I realise that I am not infallible, and if I have transgressed against God's commandments, I have hope of forgiveness due to Christ's substitutionary atonement for my sins.

Christianity is about more about following rules, it is about letting God have a role in everything you do, letting God be a part of your life.

Bajingo

I believe in some form of afterlife.

I believe there is some form of greater 'life' out there. Whether it/he/she has any real power over us I dont know. I pray anyway because it's better to be safe then sorry and I do believe it aswell I suppose because it makes me feel better that this life isnt all there is.

Im a Catholic, technically, but I dont practice. I do believe that whether you're religious or not, what Jesus thought to people should still be practices they're aint nothing wrong with a bit of kindness!

Irishcrx

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That would be Physics

We evolved to breath air, the atmosphere on our planet hasn't always been the same as it is now you know

Yes i'm aware of that , but we also can't see that far back or give accurate details of what happened as it changed or if something influenced it, I also realise dinosaurs occupied the planet before us and then suddenly wiped out.

Corb

Yes. And happy to do so.

Caoimhín

No, I do not believe in any gods. And I dont know why people get so worked up about it either. Life is short but it is full of wonder and beauty so simply enjoy it and treat others as you would like to be treated.

Cookie_Monster

Irishcrx wrote: »

Yes i'm aware of that , but we also can't see that far back or give accurate details of what happened as it changed or if something influenced it, I also realise dinosaurs occupied the planet before us and then suddenly wiped out.

Err we can actually, there is plenty of evidence to show how the atmosphere first formed and chaged over the eons and what changed in to, usually the prolifieration of certain types of life or volcanic activity etc.

Irishcrx

Sam Vimes wrote: »

But then when you realise that there are roughly 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 planets and stars in the universe, it was quite likely that at least one would form at the right distance from the sun etc


If you put a blind fold on and throw a dart at a board you will definitely miss but if you throw it the same number of times as there are planets in the universe you're bound to hit it once

Yes but that doesn't mean that life follows it, you need alot more factors than that, the sun itself is very impressive design as is each differant planet.

Sam Vimes

Irishcrx wrote: »

Yes but that doesn't mean that life follows it, you need alot more factors than that, the sun itself is very impressive design as is each differant planet.

If a planet forms in such a way that it can support life and 14 billion years pass, it kind of does mean that life follows it. The sun is not designed and neither is earth, any more than valley is "designed" by a river

Benhonan

Nope. But I do believe in fraud. Given the vast sums of money organised religion has squeezed out of gullible people the world over, I find that a lot more pertinent a matter than what started the big bang.

philologos

Benhonan wrote: »

Nope. But I do believe in fraud. Given the vast sums of money organised religion has squeezed out of gullible people the world over, I find that a lot more pertinent a matter than what started the big bang.

What about the good that churches do with the funding that they receive particularly in relation to charitable causes overseas. Faith communities also benefit their societies financially, as well as in volunteer time.

Infact I would trust my church with donations above a lot of other organisations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/aug/13/religion-christianity1

An Fear Aniar

That's a Yay! from me but don't ask me to draw a picture.


.

Cookie_Monster

Jakkass wrote: »

What about the good that churches do with the funding that they receive particularly in relation to charitable causes overseas. Faith communities also benefit their societies financially, as well as in volunteer time.

Never mind that the Vatican is one of the richest countries in the world.

bill_ashmount

All gods are man made inventions.

All religions have and continue to cause untold misery throughout the world.

philologos

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Never mind that the Vatican is one of the richest countries in the world.

I don't know what the Catholic Church has financially as I don't have experience practising in that church on a regular basis. However, I do know how other churches deal with their finances.

kumate_champ07

I believe in Paul McGrath

how many people have been killed, how much land has been stollen in the name of Paul McGrath?

sounds like the best God to me.

philologos

bill_ashmount wrote: »

All religions have and continue to cause untold misery throughout the world.

What about religions that have caused profound joy and profound change in peoples lives?

I find with these arguments people like to have their cake and eat it too. They like to entertain one possibility, and reject another which is just as true.

Yes, religion has been used as a tool for corruption in times past, atheism has also been used as a tool for corruption, as have other ideologies in the past. But "used" is the key word here. Manipulated. It isn't actually religion itself in the vast majority of cases.

kumate_champ07

Jakkass wrote: »

What about the good that churches do with the funding that they receive particularly in relation to charitable causes overseas. Faith communities also benefit their societies financially, as well as in volunteer time.

Infact I would trust my church with donations above a lot of other organisations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/aug/13/religion-christianity1

like in Nigeria? where the church promotes child abuse/murder, if a death occurs in the family and they do not know the cause usually the youngest child is blamed and called a witch. they are outted from the family, if they do not leave, the other villagers will kill them. they can cure the child tho, with the help of the catholic church and a very large payment of money. but, the treatment isnt guaranteed, and there are no refunds!

bill_ashmount

Jakkass wrote: »

What about religions that have caused profound joy and profound change in peoples lives?

I can't think of any.

Christianity, Islam, Judasim etc are responsible for millions of deaths, denial of rights for women, gays etc. Torture and rape of millions etc.

I've no doubt some individual people have found solace in these religions but that doesn't take away the fact of all the wrong-doings. They are man made and therefore open to the worst excesses of mankind. Luckily Ireland is starting to get away from it's grip.