Do you believe in God?

Pace2008

We wrote: »

If you told me you believed in fairies I'd find it difficult not to let my feelings towards you be affected somewhat..

Climb out of Mr. Dawkins' arse there for a second. Until recent years it was almost universally accepted that God existed. Many people are still taught from childhood that this is the case; no one is ever led to believe that fairies or dragons or invisible pink unicorns are real. I'm an atheist but I can understand that shaking the beliefs indoctrinated from a young age might be difficult. The fairies/Flying Spaghetti Spaghetti Monster comparison are logical on one level but they're still unfair, and more than a little smug.

Long Onion

Jakkass wrote: »

You said, why do Christians want all people to believe in Christianity basically. (Why must we all believe in God? Well nobody has to, it's just to your benefit if you do IMO)

It has to do with salvation, and accepting Jesus' plan for their lives, so that they can be united with their Creator, and that they may not be condemned at the Final Judgement. That's why we feel that it is important that people believe.

Sheez, and here's me thinking ye had quarterly targets for conversions and redemptions

philologos

DigiGal wrote: »

Why do you have to sit in this forum and go on and on arguing....Do you honestly have nothing better to do I mean why must everyone belive in God...if they don't just leave them be and get on with your own life...

Jakkass wrote: »

You said, why do Christians want all people to believe in Christianity basically. (Why must we all believe in God? Well nobody has to, it's just to your benefit if you do IMO)

It has to do with salvation, and accepting Jesus' plan for their lives, so that they can be united with their Creator, and that they may not be condemned at the Final Judgement. That's why we feel that it is important that people believe.

What more do you want? Look, if you don't want to discuss, don't. Let the rest of us discuss it. Don't come on and slander people for wanting to have a fair chat about this thing we call God.

brummytom

Jakkass wrote: »

You said, why do Christians want all people to believe in Christianity basically. (Why must we all believe in God? Well nobody has to, it's just to your benefit if you do IMO)

It has to do with salvation, and accepting Jesus' plan for their lives, so that they can be united with their Creator, and that they may not be condemned at the Final Judgement. That's why we feel that it is important that people believe.

DigiGal wrote: »

what No I didn't

Yes you did

show me where I said that..

OK:

DigiGal wrote: »

Why do you have to sit in this forum and go on and on arguing....Do you honestly have nothing better to do I mean why must everyone belive in God...if they don't just leave them be and get on with your own life...

bill_ashmount

getz wrote: »

if you want to know what god looks like,read the bible,jesus was the image of god,jesus said ;he who has seen me has seen the father,;john 14;6-9

A fake and a liar it is so.

toiletduck

Pace2008 wrote: »

Until recent years it was almost universally accepted that God existed.

Oh really...?

Many people are still taught from childhood that this is the case; no one is ever led to believe that fairies or dragons or invisible pink unicorns are real.

You don't really need to go far to disprove that. If you're Irish, you should ask one of your grandparents about 'the fairies'. Hell I know grown men who still believe in them and are scared to disturb them.

The fairies/Flying Spaghetti Spaghetti Monster comparison are logical on one level but they're still unfair, and more than a little smug.

Why is it smug? It's an apt comparison, maybe one delievered a bit cheekily but it's worth it to see Theists dismiss it immediately just coz.

Jakkass wrote:

In my experience there are three main arguments that religious people/agnostics make.
Firstly, they believe that the bible is inspired of god. If you do any research on the bible you will find that it's full of crap. There is no evidence or common sense that makes one believe that the bible is inspired of god.

How come after doing a fair bit of research on the Bible, I haven't fallen into the same conclusion as you have?

For those claiming the Biblical text has been altered, the evidence suggests otherwise. The New Testament according to textual standards for ancient texts has 40,000 manuscripts, and is 95.5% authentic, which means that it is highly unlikely that it has been changed. If indeed it has only 40 passages are in doubt.

As for the Old Testament, the Isaiah scroll found at Qum'ran in 1948 dated to 100AD matches the formerly used Isaiah scrolls exactly.

If we are going to make this claim, let's discuss it.

Let's indeed though you seem to have gone off on your own tangent. The poster didn't imply that the Bible was altered, merely that it was "full of crap". Feel free to disprove this assessment by showing examples of other resurrections, people living inside a whale, people living to nearly a thousand years of age etc etc etc.

SV

I do not believe in God as I don't believe it is in any way logical.

That's all.

procure11

JimiTime wrote: »

As a Christian, I can't say I mind all the intellectual derision. I just dust off my sandals tbh (All you well versed intellectuals should get the reference).

As long as they're not throwing me to the lions, they can have their superiority complex. I'm secure enough.

I think your stance is the best to take.I am learning from you.

JimiTime

procure11 wrote: »

I think your stance is the best to take.I am learning from you.

Someone Learning from 'me'? Thats a first:)

Pace2008

toiletduck wrote: »

Oh really...?

To be honest I don't have the facts or figures to prove it. But less than a half-century ago Ireland was deeply religious country essentially ruled by the Catholic Church. By all accounts, denouncement of God would result in derision and possible ostracisation, in certain communities at least.

You don't really need to go far to disprove that. If you're Irish, you should ask one of your grandparents about 'the fairies'. Hell I know grown men who still believe in them and are scared to disturb them.

I'm talking about modern-day society. You might know a few people but I don't know many kids who are still taught that fairies created us and watch over us.

Why is it smug? It's an apt comparison, maybe one delievered a bit cheekily but it's worth it to see Theists dismiss it immediately just coz.

I guess that's just how I see it because I'm a passive atheist. I don't think we're going to convert staunch Christians by ridiculing what's sacred to them - in fact, I think it's more likely to make them retreat into their shells. To me, Flying Spaghetti Monster et al. just seem like a hearty high-five between the converted.

JimiTime wrote: »

As a Christian, I can't say I mind all the intellectual derision. I just dust off my sandals tbh (All you well versed intellectuals should get the reference).

As long as they're not throwing me to the lions, they can have their superiority complex. I'm secure enough.

When you say this do you mean you simply ignore the arguments against God or have you looked at both sides and logically concluded that your position is the right one? I can respect the latter but not the former.

twinytwo

We wrote: »

You can try argue this all you want but your defence is totally reliant on your own beliefs for it to hold up.
You believe that your religion is the word of god, and thus is not accountable for the crimes of his followers as they were not acting on his teachings or his behalf.. For athiests or those who dont believe the same things you do, we see it as a bunch of PEOPLE who created this religion. THEY make the rules.
A book of vague scriptures can be interpreted whatever way people want to interpret it and you can't try to relinquish the church's/religion's responsability with such a cowardly defence..








LOL.. Well I'm glad we cleared that up... :rolleyes:




Of course I'm going to say atheism or the atheist population of the world isn't responsible, because it isn't..

Unfortunately for you the same argument can't be applied to Atheism as is it to Religions.
We don't have a set of rules that we believe to supersede law or a divine spirit who's name we act on behalf of, or who's beliefs we follow.
Atheism is essentially the rejection of your beliefs, we don't have beliefs of our own that we all agree on. Stalin wasn't acting in the name of atheism, nor was Hitler, nor was Pol Pot. What your trying to do here is attribute atheism as a cause for the actions of these nutjobs, which is about as justifiable as saying its because they were all left handed..

they are not acting on his teachings... but their own interpitations of them... take the fundementalist groups who take parts of the koran and twist it to suit their cause rather that what it says as a whole. The same can be said for most religons it gets perverted by morally and financially corrupt people who play on peoples beliefs.

On another note... if there is not god or something after death then there is no point to life and why should we not just all kill ourselves now before we take the planet with us

Pace2008

twinytwo wrote: »

On another note... if there is not god or something after death then there is no point to life and why should we not just all kill ourselves now before we take the planet with us

That is ridiculous. Do you honestly think your existence is worthless apart from acting as some sort of screening process for the next life?

philologos

Pace2008 wrote: »

That is ridiculous. Do you honestly think your existence is worthless apart from acting as some sort of screening process for the next life?

I don't think any Christian thinks this. We have a purpose to live for God and for others in this life.

toiletduck

Pace2008 wrote: »

To be honest I don't have the facts or figures to prove it. But less than a half-century ago Ireland was deeply religious country...

I thought by Universal, you meant outside of Ireland.

I'm talking about modern-day society. You might know a few people but I don't know many kids who are still taught that fairies created us and watch over us.

That's not what the fairies did or were supposed to have done. Really you should read up on the whole notion, it really fascinating how a Christian tradition on the Ireland incorporated such 'pagan' notions and how they held right up til recent times. But "no one is ever led to believe that fairies..", well they have been :pac:

I guess that's just how I see it because I'm a passive atheist. I don't think we're going to convert staunch Christians by ridiculing what's sacred to them - in fact, I think it's more likely to make them retreat into their shells. To me, Flying Spaghetti Monster et al. just seem like a hearty high-five between the converted.

I have no interest in 'converting' anyone. People can believe whatever they want but if they start using these beliefs to attempt to change society/laws etc then a fairly apt comparison can be useful in showing them how ridiculous their beliefs are to others, as the FSM is to them.

bleg

I think that you should all go away and do something more constructive. You're not going to convince each other. You pick up on each other's stupid minor points and take the thread off in different tangents. When has anybody ever strengthened/rejected their belief in god due to something they read on an internet forum?

toiletduck

bleg wrote: »

I think that you should all go away and do something more constructive.

My code is compiling :pac:

getz

toiletduck wrote: »

My code is compiling :pac:

my dog has just said ;if there is no such thing as god ..who feeds me ?

twinytwo

Pace2008 wrote: »

That is ridiculous. Do you honestly think your existence is worthless apart from acting as some sort of screening process for the next life?

If there is nothing after life then life itself becomes pointless. All it is is and endless cycle that at the end of the day achieves nothing in the grand scale of the universe. If this is the case then a series of events led to the creation of mankind which causes more problems than it is worth.

ro09

genericguy wrote: »

nope, i believe in logic, science and the pursuit of knowledge. I do not believe in blindly accepting that there's some beardy bloke in the sky that hates gheys and needs money.

Although if said beardy bloke comes and visits me, I'll kiss mary harney.

Oh yes because Science has the answers to everything. You don't have to see something to believe in it. I am not overly religious but I believe in God. People like you are making this country Weak.

Pace2008

toiletduck wrote: »

That's not what the fairies did or were supposed to have done. Really you should read up on the whole notion, it really fascinating how a Christian tradition on the Ireland incorporated such 'pagan' notions and how they held right up til recent times. But "no one is ever led to believe that fairies..", well they have been :pac:

I didn't mean to suggest it was. I was saying that kids in school are still being taught about god in the same way they're taught about the various rivers or mountain ranges in Ireland, or at least I was. It's not even suggested that his existence is uncertain, all that there is to discuss are the various aspects of his being and how he interacts with us. This is indoctrination and it's bound to affect their beliefs, especially the less inquisitive ones. I will read up on the faeries in Irish culture though...the more you know and all that

People can believe whatever they want but if they start using these beliefs to attempt to change society/laws etc then a fairly apt comparison can be useful in showing them how ridiculous their beliefs are to others, as the FSM is to them.

I do agree with you here. I'll only tolerate people's individual beliefs if they don't infringe on my own liberties.

Oh yes because Science has the answers to everything. You don't have to see something to believe in it. I am not overly religious but I believe in God. People like you are making this country Weak.

Science seeks to find the answers to everything, and so far it's doing a pretty impressive job. Unlike religion, it will readily hold its hands up and admit that it doesn't know all that there is to know, but will strive to figure it out.

DigiGal wrote: »

Why do you have to sit in this forum and go on and on arguing....Do you honestly have nothing better to do I mean why must everyone belive in God...if they don't just leave them be and get on with your own life...

Two years ago I would still have considered myself a theist. Reading arguments on the internet led me to look further into the subject and I'm now on the other side of the fence. Not everyone's opinions or beliefs are set in stone (though the opposite is true for too many) and people can be swayed by persuasive argument. In any case, discussion is good - if you don't want to participate, don't.

Corkfeen

Surprised, we're mostly atheists.

o1s1n

ro09 wrote: »

People like you are making this country Weak.

How?

Genghiz Cohen

o1s1n wrote: »

How?

+1
And the capital 'W' only heightens my interest.

JimiTime

Pace2008 wrote: »

When you say this do you mean you simply ignore the arguments against God or have you looked at both sides and logically concluded that your position is the right one? I can respect the latter but not the former.

Probably an oversimplification, but closer to the latter and nothing like the former.

I have no issue discussing difficult questions pertaining to God etc, and often do over in the Christianity forum. It is great to enter into discussion with folk who are honest, whatever their 'side'. However, there is much 'You are deluded, retarded, an idiot, illogical, irrational, seeking a comfort blanket, brainwashed, indoctrinated....' the list goes on. Such things don't warrant much. As I say, I don't mind folk thinking they are better, more intelligent, etc. I don't seek the approval of such folk, so if thats how they want to think and behave, thats up to them. I remember my dad used to say, 'Those guys who go on about kickin the cr@p out of people, and how tough they are. Those people are the cowards. Their cowardice and insecurity though, can make them the most dangerous of people.'
I think the same principal can be applied again here. So I would try avoid such folk.

Horsefumbler

Fernando Torres...

An Fear Aniar

OK, well this was going to be an interesting thread, but it got hijacked by the Christian brigade.

The topic was belief in the existence or non-existence of God (or Gods), not which religion holds the monopoly on access to God.


.

DrumSteve

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

The topic was belief in the existence or non-existence of God (or Gods), not which religion holds the monopoly on access to God.
.

This.

SV

ro09 wrote: »

People like you are making this country Weak.

lmao.

Statements don't get much stupider than that.

Cookie_Monster

ro09 wrote: »

Oh yes because Science has the answers to everything. You don't have to see something to believe in it. I am not overly religious but I believe in God. People like you are making this country Weak.

Oh no we aren't, it people like you!

[see what I did there]

JimiTime

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

OK, well this was going to be an interesting thread, but it got hijacked by the Christian brigade.

The topic was belief in the existence or non-existence of God (or Gods), not which religion holds the monopoly on access to God.


.

DrumSteve wrote: »

This.

You believe the first few pages, as in the ones before Jackass came in to clear up ignorant conceptions of the Judeo-Christian God being a guy with white beard in the clouds etc was enlightening was it?

Firstly, you asked the question in AH, so I'm not sure what kind of discussion you thought may evolve. Secondly, the question was so non specific that its hardly surprising that it doesn't match whatever expectations were in your head. Thirdly, Christians were descibed as 'Retarded', 'Idiots' etc before anyone came to try 'politely', dispel some of yours and others ignorance. There was no discussion that was 'hijacked', and if you believe what you had was discussion, then you may have a problem dispelling any other ignorance you may have knockin' about.

eightyfish

ro09 wrote: »

Oh yes because Science has the answers to everything.

Of course Science doesn't have the answers to everything. If it did, it would stop.

bleg

Did you hear about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac?


He stayed up all night wondering if there was a dog.

Turtwig

twinytwo wrote: »

If there is nothing after life then life itself becomes pointless. All it is is and endless cycle that at the end of the day achieves nothing in the grand scale of the universe. If this is the case then a series of events led to the creation of mankind which causes more problems than it is worth.

Utter depressing to read, if you really believe that life is only worth living on a promise of something greater then you aren't actually living a life. Go out there appreciate what you have (no matter how you believe it arrived) and taste the garden of knowledge and beauty- this world is amazing. Fact!

ro09 wrote: »

Oh yes because Science has the answers to everything. You don't have to see something to believe in it. I am not overly religious but I believe in God. People like you are making this country Weak.

This country Weak? Actually it's people like you who think Science has the answers to everything;) and think others that don't believe in God are weak. No my friend they are STRONG! To reject a belief held by a majority takes guts and courage.

JimiTime wrote: »

You believe the first few pages, as in the ones before Jackass came in to clear up ignorant conceptions of the Judeo-Christian God being a guy with white beard in the clouds etc was enlightening was it?

Firstly, you asked the question in AH, so I'm not sure what kind of discussion you thought may evolve. Secondly, the question was so non specific that its hardly surprising that it doesn't match whatever expectations were in your head. Thirdly, Christians were descibed as 'Retarded', 'Idiots' etc before anyone came to try 'politely', dispel some of yours and others ignorance. There was no discussion that was 'hijacked', and if you believe what you had was discussion, then you may have a problem dispelling any other ignorance you may have knockin' about.

I'll admit that it disappoints me the blunt and misunderstood views that are held by some members of both parties.
Atheists ignorant because they don't believe in a deity.
Christians ignorant because they defend their church and saviour.
Utter tripe!
Through the usual kinds of respectful discussion that we sometimes have one either gets convinced of the other side or strengthen his/her own resolve. Eitherway, s/he improves their understanding of the process of life and (while not meaning to sound over poetic) that is the most important:)

philologos

An Fear Aniar wrote: »

OK, well this was going to be an interesting thread, but it got hijacked by the Christian brigade.

The topic was belief in the existence or non-existence of God (or Gods), not which religion holds the monopoly on access to God.


.

If there are misconceptions about Christianity being posted in a thread by non-believers, I feel that Christians should have the right to clear them up. If people would have kept the discussion between whether or not you believe in a God, or not, that's fine, but when people feel the need to belittle others for having Christian beliefs, I feel it is worthy to at least offer some clarifications as to what problems they have.

Fair enough I would have thought?

I'm starting to lean towards JimiTime's point of view. It sometimes feel that it is pointless. For some people you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't when it comes to discussing God.

ei.sdraob

is it me or the poll graph looks like a middle finger


and then there are the tags, im still ROFLing

Tags
anti-theism, atheists are mickeys, bi-annual god rant, christ the wankstain, enough jackass, god is the man, i ate a church candle, i'm busting for a piss, imaginary friends, inb4_the_2nd_coming, j'sus is mah homeboy, jackass shut up, jesus raped an onion, lol at the tags, nuns minges are dry, paedophile priest cum, the second cuming, typical anti-god screed, weekly god rant, where's your javaboy now?, wheres sam vines?, yer a bunch of homos

To reject a belief held by a majority takes guts and courage.

science is not a religion, mate


if anyone wants to dispute gravity then go jump of a cliff

or doesn't understand evolution then look at bacteria evolving under a microscope

i find it amusing how the religious "believe" that atheism is another religion, when all they have to do is look at the meaning of the word "atheism" > lack of belief

An Fear Aniar

Jakkass wrote: »

If there are misconceptions about Christianity being posted in a thread by non-believers, I feel that Christians should have the right to clear them up. ....

Fair enough I would have thought?

Fair enough, I don't blame you, but the whole point of the debate then becomes lost in the minutiae of biblical exegesis and complaints about priests etc.... so it becomes impossible to get people to focus on the original question, do we live in a universe with a god or without a god(?)....

.

philologos

I wish I didn't have to deal with complaints about priests. It's not something that really comes into faith for me.

As for whether or not God exists, I think it is impossible to effectively discuss about what kind of God we believe in without referring to certain belief systems. Inevitably that will mean that Christianity will be brought into discussion.

An Fear Aniar

Jakkass wrote: »

As for whether or not God exists, I think it is impossible to effectively discuss about what kind of God we believe in without referring to certain belief systems.

Here I disagree. The question was not "what is God like?", the question was, "do you believe in God?" It's a dichotomous question.

.

philologos

Yes, but generally when people say that they don't believe in God. They generally follow by saying, I definitely can't believe in the Judeo-Christian God, which would generally lead to questions about God's nature.

tara666

no.... but then again does he believe in me?

Turtwig

tara666 wrote: »

no.... but then again does he believe in me?

He does (if you believe in him).

An Fear Aniar

Jakkass wrote: »

Yes, but generally when people say that they don't believe in God. They generally follow by saying, I definitely can't believe in the Judeo-Christian God, which would generally lead to questions about God's nature.

Well, that's an error I've noticed too. It saddens me that some people make the decision that there's no God based on their experiences of certain people and their teachings. I think you'll agree that's a tragic thing to happen.

.

philologos

Certainly I think that's true. However, I think we are responsible too for putting across the wrong image of Christianity. I think that I probably screw up in presenting the faith the way it should be presented sometimes, but that is something for me to work on.

Turtwig

Jakkass wrote: »

Certainly I think that's true. However, I think we are responsible too for putting across the wrong image of Christianity. I think that I probably screw up in presenting the faith the way it should be presented sometimes, but that is something for me to work on.

To be fair, Jakkass, it is a pretty BIG faith - all those books no wonder you mix bits up from time to time:). What irks me though is when people 'quote mine' something to make it sound like it says something when it clearly says something else. Of course, people generally lap it up without questioning the validity of it - like swine flu ,I guess. Believe the media, believe the conspiracy theories instead of actually researching the research yourself.
Sorry if I went OT but I felt I had to make that point as it applies to everything.

I'm not saying people aren't entitled to an opinion. What I am saying is that it would seem reasonable for everyone else to expect an informed opinion.

Splendour

Pace2008 wrote: »

That is ridiculous. Do you honestly think your existence is worthless apart from acting as some sort of screening process for the next life?

As a Christian I don't see my existence as being worthless but I do see it as a sort of 'screening process' of sorts for the next i.e. if we hear the gospel in this life, we have the choice to accept or reject it. Too many people put an emphasis on this life (myself included), instead of focusing on the next life.

Turtwig

Splendour wrote: »

As a Christian I don't see my existence as being worthless but I do see it as a sort of 'screening process' of sorts for the next i.e. if we hear the gospel in this life, we have the choice to accept or reject it. Too many people put an emphasis on this life (myself included), instead of focusing on the next life.

Wait, are you saying we shouldn't bother with this life? Or that we should just think about the next one a wee bit more?

If it is the former:
Are you NUTS!!?.

If it is the latter:
Phewww.:)
Although, I have to say that I shall not be focusing on the next life.
There is only the here and the now, every where-and-when else is undefined

Overblood

Splendour wrote: »

Too many people put an emphasis on this life (myself included), instead of focusing on the next life.

That's a horrifying statement. I wouldn't mind if it came out of the mouth of a blathering voodoo priest in Haiti, but we're pretty well educated here in Ireland. Wake up please.

Splendour

Malty_T wrote: »

Wait, are you saying we shouldn't bother with this life? Or that we should just think about the next one a wee bit more?

If it is the former:
Are you NUTS!!?.

If it is the latter:
Phewww.:)
Although, I have to say that I shall not be focusing on the next life.
There is only the here and the now, every where-and-when else is undefined

Both. Jesus said:

John 10:10
10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Am curious as to your 'undefined' where-and-when else statement?

Splendour

Overblood wrote: »

That's a horrifying statement. I wouldn't mind if it came out of the mouth of a blathering voodoo priest in Haiti, but we're pretty well educated here in Ireland. Wake up please.

Why so horrible? If you were living in some third world country where you were penniless and hungry would you also think that this must be all there is? What then would be the point of life?

Sea Sharp

(only read p17)

How come after doing a fair bit of research on the Bible, I haven't fallen into the same conclusion as you have?

For those claiming the Biblical text has been altered, the evidence suggests otherwise. The New Testament according to textual standards for ancient texts has 40,000 manuscripts, and is 95.5% authentic, which means that it is highly unlikely that it has been changed. If indeed it has only 40 passages are in doubt.

As for the Old Testament, the Isaiah scroll found at Qum'ran in 1948 dated to 100AD matches the formerly used Isaiah scrolls exactly.

Don't get me wrong there is accuracy to a certain extent in the bible, but there was no 'bible' as such before 200BCish. The thing is, a lot of stories in the old testament, particularily in genesis, are similar to other older religious beliefs. Other texts that ca be dated back further than the genesis account that survived to this day in the modern bible. Adam & Eve, Noah's Ark, these stories are similar to other 'creation stories' all around the time of 5000BC/4000BC.
You need to be able to analyse the bible correctly, because in reality it could just be old myths of the bronze age era. Myths and stories that change over time. If you are saying that the bible is inspired of god, you need to show some evidence that could make other people sure that the bible isn't just 'bronze age folklore'. What evidence is there that the bible is more than this?

Whether or not evolution has holes in it is irrespective. It is conceivable that God started the evolutionary process, or that God guided the evolutionary process if one wants to hold to evolution whilst believing in God. I know many people who do.

But the thing is, there was no need for intervention in evolution. Life could have evolved to where we are now without ANY help from a 'god'. biogenessis makes sense. There was no need for someone to 'start the evolution process'. In my opinion, it's narrow minded to think that there must be a 'personality' behind it. It's complicated, but there is no need for a god to explain how we got here.

Yes, but you are missing the point. They feel that the God question is different to other questions. I personally don't hold the view that God's likelihood to exist is the same as a pink unicorn floating in space.

Why?
Why must there be a great being who takes care of all the stuff you can't comprehend? It's like 'If we can't understand it, then it must of been made by god'

People's willingness to believe in god is similar, (but a lot more complicated), than a child's willingness to believe in Santa Clause. You have always assumed it to be true, it effects the way you look at the world around to you. It's hard to make an adjustment, because religious beliefs that are often an important element in personal growth. (You are taught that god is real when you're 3 or 4.)

People have to take a step back and say, what reason is there for believing in god, other than the habit of assumption?'