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UPC do something nice, refuse to block Pirate's Bay

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    #32
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I think IRMA are onto a losing battle here, especially given that there's no basis in Irish Law for what they're asking UPC to do, and judging by their comments on Newstalk this morning, they really haven't got a clue about the web which renders them incapable of defending their position.

    A spokesman for IRMA said two key things this morning which illustrates what a complete pack of muppets they are:

    1. "It's effectively just a pipe through which the product flows, and UPC can just block that pipe".
    2. "A business model cannot be developed for the music industry which suits the internet"

    I think IRMA need an "Internet for Dummies" book and a link to iTunes.

    The simple fact is that the vast vast majority of people, when looking for media (be it music or video), will take the easiest route, not necessarily the cheapest one. If the online delivery method is simple to understand and it works consistently, then most people will choose that route, even if they have to pay a nominal fee for it.

    Torrents aren't *that* simple for Joe Soap and the quality (both of the files and the connection) are variable.

    On the other hand, if the only delivery method available is via filesharing, or the legit methods are too expensive (e.g. €25 for an album), then people will take the illegal route.

    The Irish record companies need to wake up and realise that they can't fight the internet. It will beat them. Rather than trying to hold back the waves, they need to pick up a surfboard and work with them.


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    #33
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    sharms wrote: »
    ha yes but it certainly aint for boards
    hey, if you can't prove it, then it didn't happen, boards rules. :)

    also known as the "pics or gtfo" rule. :D

    (joking, in case the smileys didn't give it away) :D


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    #34
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    seamus wrote: »
    The Irish record companies need to wake up and realise that they can't fight the internet. It will beat them. Rather than trying to hold back the waves, they need to pick up a surfboard and work with them.

    Its not just the Irish record companies that need to realise that--Its a worldwide problem.


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    #35
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Its not just the Irish record companies that need to realise that--Its a worldwide problem.
    IRMA seems to be particularly slow though. So much so that I'm fairly sure they have learning disabilities. The Americans are still resistant, but they've begrudgingly accepted that their "products" have to have an online delivery component, and the days of physical media are well and truely numbered.
    IRMA seem incapable of seeing both the truth and the opportunities in this situation.


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    #36
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    seamus wrote: »
    2. "A business model cannot be developed for the music industry which suits the internet"

    I think IRMA need an "Internet for Dummies" book and a link to iTunes.
    just read on engadget (or possibly the register) this morning that 25% of music sales in the US go through itunes and that the expect it to account for more sales than CD's by the end of 2010.

    I think it just doesn't suite their business model of making vast truckloads of cash off the back of recording artists for very little actual effort.

    anyone can release music on itunes with a little effort and a small amount of cash without having to involve any mega-sized record companies and I'm pretty sure they can see that their time is almost over and they're just trying to stretch it out as long as they can.


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    #37
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    vibe666 wrote: »
    just read on engadget (or possibly the register) this morning that 25% of music sales in the US go through itunes and that the expect it to account for more sales than CD's by the end of 2010.

    And here it is
    Engadget wrote:
    According to the number crunchers at NPD Group, the trend that came to a head last year when Apple beat out Wal-Mart for the title of largest Stateside music retailer is continuing apace. That's right -- one in four songs sold in America is sold on iTunes, while Wal-Mart (including CD sales through retail stores, sales through their website, and Wal-Mart Music Downloads) holds the number two position at 14 percent. And number three, if you're morbidly curious, is Best Buy. In addition, 69% of all digital music sold in the US comes from the iTunes store, with Amazon ranking second at 8 percent. When talking formats, the CD remains the most popular at 65 percent, but as some dude named Russ Crupnick (NPD's vice president of entertainment industry analysis) notes, "with digital music sales growing at 15 to 20 percent, and CDs falling by an equal proportion, digital music sales will nearly equal CD sales by the end of 2010." Which can only be a good thing, if it means that we'll never have to step into a Wal-Mart again. Sales of ringtones and sales to consumers under 13 were not tabulated, which means the data may incorrectly skew away from purchases of The Wiggles' Go Bananas! and that Crazy Frog song.


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    #38
    vibe666
    Registered Users Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    RangeR wrote: »
    And here it is
    that's the one. :)

    it's certainly a business model that is working for someone. :)


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    #39
    galwayfeen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭galwayfeen


    ...Now they're trying to sue them because they didn't do what they were told to do:pac:
    http://www.enn.ie/story/show/10125359


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    #40
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    What gets me is I'm not convinced it is just the music being available that is a problem to the likes of IRMA, it is the very way in which music is managed and released.

    A lot of the 'activity' of music industry personnel revolves around promoting and levering artists into a market slot and promoting the result, fanning the flames to get income, for the labels and hopefully, when the air has cleared, whatever's left for the artist.

    You do get this feeling various people and groups would be so happy if the internet just '****ed off' or was dictated to by a very small group. Reinstate the middle men, so to speak.

    It is not about loss of market share, it is about control, at the very root of it.


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    #41
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    Amalgam wrote: »
    It is not about loss of market share, it is about control, at the very root of it.

    Agree 100%


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    #42
    PaddyTheNth
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭PaddyTheNth


    mehmeh12 wrote: »
    In relation to Ireland specifically have Eircom actually prosecuted people for illegal downloading? can they they cut people off BB after three strikes?
    sharms wrote: »
    they have indeed prosecuted people for illegal downloading but as of yet they are not in a position to cut off anyones broadband
    Pretty sure Eircom haven't prosecuted anyone for illegal downloading. It's possible that IRMA and/or other rightsholders may have taken cases against people here, but Eircom sure as hell haven't.

    Technically Eircom can cut you off as per their T&Cs. I haven't heard of them actually disconnecting anyone yet with regard to this issue.

    Delighted to see UPC standing up to IRMA, who appear to have the same understanding of how the internet functions as a hamster.


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    #43
    TheDeficit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭TheDeficit


    the most annoying part of this deal is that eircom seem completely comfortable doing this, would any isp operating in a nation where there is genuine competition even consider this?


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    #44
    RangeR
    Registered Users Posts: 7,265 ✭✭✭RangeR


    TheDeficit wrote: »
    the most annoying part of this deal is that eircom seem completely comfortable doing this, would any isp operating in a nation where there is genuine competition even consider this?

    eircom don't have the money to fight anything.


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    #45
    Thor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭Thor


    Ha Upc:1 Eircom:-12

    i for one am glad i no longer have eircom.

    i bet if they asked eircom to block youtube they would bend over and do it.

    eircom have infact opened this up. IRMA aren't going to stop there. loads of sites are going to be blocked and eircom will have no choice but to do it as they can't afford to say no.
    there should be a law to stop anyone from asking any isp from blocking anything on the internet.

    i can see eircoms new advertising now.

    7MB Broadband For 39.99 with 50gb Allowance.(terms and conditions apply)(access to The Pirate Bay Prohibited)


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    #46
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    sharms wrote: »
    it's not "NICE" as you put it is irresponsible. Why dont u take ur hand outta ur pocket and pay 4d music u r stealing

    The Pirates Bay is about more than just music, there are
    • Films
    • Software
    • TV programs
    • Games


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    #47
    -osborne-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭-osborne-


    Eircom might not have the balls to stand up to the IRMA, But all the bigger internet providers will because if Vodafone etc.) Have to implement these policies in this country they will eventually have to do it in all the countries they operate in and I doubt they would look to favourably in implementing these policies cutting off people connections ,losing revenue


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    #48
    craichoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭craichoe


    Aye,

    UPC are quite big, since they bought up NTL and Chorus, I'm getting their 120mbps package when i move house ;)

    http://www.upc.nl/internet/internet_120/

    More for the 10meg up more than the 120 down ;)


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    #49
    eamonpendergast
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭eamonpendergast


    Does anybody know if Eircom plans to block access to just the PirateBay site, or to all the PirateBay trackers also? There's a world of difference there...

    Also, to those of you complaining about stealing music and how blocking access to the site is a good thing, I have 2 points:

    1) The PirateBay also indexs torrents to freeware and unlicienced material, which is totally legal. These will also be blocked by the move, what right have they to block access to that material?

    2) Would you still be happy if YouTube was blocked? YouTube can have copyrighted material on their site too (until it's removed at least...) Google can be used to search for torrents as easily as the PirateBay, what if they are next?


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    #50
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    It doesn't matter anymore...

    http://thepiratebay.org/

    They're gone. Not direct action, but their provider is under threat of heavy fines..

    http://digg.com/tech_news/The_Pirate_Bay_Taken_Offline_By_Swedish_Authorities

    Events have overtaken Eircom's upcoming block, all in the last hour or so..


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