Dept Of Education - New Students May Be Liable For Fees Next Year.

Riamfada

As I said students do not vote, if fees come in it will cause no more trouble for the government than they are already in. Why not make a few quid before they go and cut down on the excess of Art History majors?

Fad

Grimes wrote: »

As I said students do not vote, if fees come in it will cause no more trouble for the government than they are already in. Why not make a few quid before they go and cut down on the excess of Art History majors?

Orts will collapse :eek:

If Science in UCD breaks 400, and the Orts block, I dunno, melts, UCD will probably overtake TCD in the Top 50........

El Siglo

A group like FEE are more at home with 1969 than they are with 2009. Instead of this radical, protest every visiting politician etc... Students should employ other tactics as well. Farmers for example are quick to mobilise over the slighest thing, but also they're an incredibly powerful lobby group. Seriously, they're one of the most powerful lobby groups in the EU. We need to look at the legal avenues; take the government to high court, supreme court, European Court of Human Rights. We're students, how many law students would it take, and how much money from SU Fees from each university, IT, VEC College of Further Education etc... would cover the costs of such legal action. It's ridiculous, we have the people, we have the money and yet we're doing nothing bar this mickey mouse protest rubbish. The USI needs to start acting like a union (so does the UCDSU for that matter), how many students will be affected by fees over the next decade? Condone fees my left one, start taking the government on directly. Protesting is useless when nobody listens.

Sad Professor

There's been very little coverage of this on the radio this morning. RTE barely saw fit to mention it in most of their news reports. Maybe there'll be something later in day when the members of the opposition get back from their afternoon golf match.

And the USI is an embarrassment. Their site is still down - on the one day people might want to actually look at it.

The_Minister

bythewoods wrote: »

Here, isn't there some kind of group in UCD called "FEE"?- Free Education for Everyone?

*Cough* socialist front *cough*
They campaigned, ran for election, got pasted, vanished.

errlloyd

So any first years got Dads who are epic Lawyers who wanna work Pro-bono to save themselves 21 k in the long run?

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

So any first years got Dads who are epic Lawyers who wanna work Pro-bono to save themselves 21 k in the long run?

In the long run, you will have to pay that €21k in income tax.

DennisZ

errlloyd wrote: »

So any first years got Dads who are epic Lawyers who wanna work Pro-bono to save themselves 21 k in the long run?

no, I am just an average IT guy. 7k/year - not easy (spending less on my beloved hobby - model planes) , but manageable.
just start saving year ahead.

and I have another son going to college in a five yrs time.

/Dad

errlloyd

The Economist wrote: »

In the long run, you will have to pay that €21k in income tax.

Alternatively you can say my parents have already paid that 21k in income tax...

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

Alternatively you can say my parents have already paid that 21k in income tax...

On average, every additional year of education will increase your yearly salary by 9%. If your parents are rich enough to pay €21k in tax, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

Third-level education is a private good. It's not like the Gardaí or public lighting where everyone gets the same reward. The benefits accrue almost exclusively to you. It's the best investment you will ever make. Again, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

RebelGirrrl

Do you think the deferred loan thing is still the most likely?

El Siglo

RebelGirrrl wrote: »

Do you think the deferred loan thing is still the most likely?

It depends, but probably will be the most likely outcome from this fiasco.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

The_Minister wrote: »

The real cost of college is over 20,000.
Even 5,000 is only a fraction of the true cost of college.

Isn't it 5000 per year? Thats 20000 altogether for me.

RebelGirrrl

El Siglo wrote: »

It depends, but probably will be the most likely outcome from this fiasco.

What does anyone else think, I'd be really worried about that?

errlloyd

The Economist wrote: »

On average, every additional year of education will increase your yearly salary by 9%. If your parents are rich enough to pay €21k in tax, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

Third-level education is a private good. It's not like the Gardaí or public lighting where everyone gets the same reward. The benefits accrue almost exclusively to you. It's the best investment you will ever make. Again, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

Its actually not the fees that annoys me in this instance. Its the way in which they are implemented. Announcing it the day offers are accepted is just cheeky.

In essence I would love fees, points would be real low and I can afford them. I'd probably have got my first choice, even though my second is amazing too so I am not complaining.

However with a one handed grasp the government welcomed us to University, while with the other they wrote up the bill.

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

Its actually not the fees that annoys me in this instance. Its the way in which they are implemented. Announcing it the day offers are accepted is just cheeky.
...

However with a one handed grasp the government welcomed us to University, while with the other they wrote up the bill.

Actually they said "We're probably not going to be paying your bill from next year."

errlloyd

The Economist wrote: »

Actually they said "We're probably not going to be paying your bill from next year."

Don't play dumb, if your name is anything like your nature you know very well that its certain as rain.

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

Don't play dumb, if your name is anything like your nature you know very well that its certain as rain.

Actually I'm being accurate rather than sensationalist. They're not certain, the government may fall, for example.

DylanJM

When they say fees are likely to be implemented next year do they mean next year i.e 2010 or the next school year 2009/2010. In other words are gonna get away with one free year of college before fees come in?

Tom1991

Well if they do 8 grand a year is steep on the science fee and Iwill become a college dropout in 2010dont wanta 24k loan on me shoulders when i get out and try find a job

Zuffer

Tom1991 wrote: »

Well if they do 8 grand a year is steep on the science fee and Iwill become a college dropout in 2010dont wanta 24k loan on me shoulders when i get out and try find a job

Playing devils advocate - is that not a good thing? Not for you, but for taxpayers?

The 24K has to be paid by someone if you go to college, and without fees, it will be the taxpayers. What you are saying is that you don't feel that college is worth 24K. You're willing to take it if it is free (or cheap). But not at full cost. That is a textbook example of something that should not be produced. If someone offered me a free two week trip to South America, I'd go. If I had to pay, I wouldn't (and am not!). It is the same thing.

There are coherent counter arguments. But also plenty of incoherent ones. Having spent the last year listening to the SU and FEE folks, I've had my fill of the incoherent.

Riamfada

I havnt heard USI give any alternative plan. However most Unions just make noise and USI are no different.

Perhaps hitting drop outs with the bill for the full cost of the years they were in college. Thus if you drop out of college you are not costing the tax payer a penny. That will save some of the money being pumped into college students.

Secondly it would be an option to pay a postgraduate tax which I believe is the fairest. When they get a job they pay a very small interest free percentage of their income back to the taxpayer until cost of educating them is recouperated. Like a long term interest free loan? No?

They are my options. Shoulda ran for USI president.

Sarn

When I started college, back when there were fees, people planned ahead to cover the cost of fees. Fortunately free fees came in during my time and made life a lot easier. The way I see it, a deferred payment system would have to be implemented as people (parents and/or students) never anticipated the reintroduction of fees. Otherwise it would result in a massive number of drop-outs due to inability to pay as there has been no time to set up a college fee fund. As we all know, in our current economic climate finding that cash could prove quite difficult.

The only benefit I see in the re-introduction of fees is an increased appreciation for the chance at third level education. When money comes out of your own/families pocket you tend to look at things differently, as I'm sure anyone who has had to repeat a year would agree with. Fees would encourage students (those that need it) to get the most out of their time at third level. I imagine that the drop-off in lecture attendance (partly attributable to BB) and number of repeats would decrease. It would also encourage people to really consider what they intend to study and help reduce the number of drop-outs through ill-informed choices.

However, one of the other downsides, apart from the level of debt when you finish, would be increased stress levels while at third level as there would no longer be an option to just walk away, no strings attached.

With regard to the high rate of drop-outs due to failure in certain courses, institutions should establish minimum academic requirements for certain courses. Low entry points do not necessarily reflect how easy a course will be.

1968

The_Minister wrote: »

*Cough* socialist front *cough*
They campaigned, ran for election, got pasted, vanished.

FEE in UCD is made up of SP, WSM, OSF, LY, non alligned Irish Republicans and students not involved in any political group. It is not a ¨socialist front¨

I suspect they´ll be back in September.

1968

errlloyd wrote: »

Well we can't have a riot in UCD, its riot proof. Oh well, I guess we'll have to rip up trinity then... Shame that...

It´s kicked off a few times on campus.

1975:

UCD students and members of the Gardai fight pitched battles up and down the concourse outside the Arts Block and restaurant during a visit of then Taoiseach Liam Cosgrave and the US Ambassador to Ireland Mr. John D. Moore

http://ucdhiddenhistory.wordpress.com/2009/04/27/5-the-battle-of-belfield-1975/

1989:

Scuffles broke out between UCD students and teh Gardai during a visit of Charles Haughey

http://ucdhiddenhistory.wordpress.com/2009/04/27/7-charles-haughey/

Tom1991

yes i see your point in a rational way its correct but this fee's system has a whole cloak and dagger system to it is there any mention of funding for disadvantaged students or if it is still subject to a means test.

bythewoods

As far as fees are concerned, I'm more than willing to pay them.
Like, I do agree with what TheEconomist has said in his previous posts- doing a course is for your personal benefit and should be treated as an investment, etc.

However, if my parents have to foot the bill I'd find that pretty unacceptable. The deffered loan system (or a graduate tax or what have you) seems like it'd be fair enough, but I completely disagree with upfront fees.

Sure we'll see.

The_Minister wrote: »

*Cough* socialist front *cough*
They campaigned, ran for election, got pasted, vanished.

Hmmmm, you'll have to forgive me.
I was wrongly informed about this little "FEE" group.

I'm not really proactive enough to join stuff like that anyway...

Michaelrsh

I have a few suggestions:rolleyes:,

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

1) MASS PROTESS
2) RIOT
3) INVADE LEINSTER HOUSE AND HOLD STAFF HOSTAGE

any more suggestions if they bring back fees??

Riamfada

Michaelrsh wrote: »

I have a few suggestions:rolleyes:,

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

1) MASS PROTESS
2) RIOT
3) INVADE LEINSTER HOUSE AND HOLD STAFF HOSTAGE

any more suggestions if they bring back fees??

1. GET A JOB
2. SAVE FOR COLLEGE
3. TAKE OUT A LOAN
4. WORK PART TIME IN COLLEGE

Sad Professor

Grimes wrote: »

1. GET A JOB
2. SAVE FOR COLLEGE
3. TAKE OUT A LOAN
4. WORK PART TIME IN COLLEGE

To be fair, a lot of people have to do all these things already just to cover living expenses while in college. Fees, even in the form of a deferred loan, will add greatly to the total cost and will result in many people not going at all.

The government could compensate for this by increasing the grant but I doubt they can afford it right now.