a third of property being taken over by NAMA is not even in Ireland!

Naz_st

loobylou wrote: »

According to the Minister of Finance, ALL property related loans above a value of €5m will be taken into NAMA.

I was just going by the FAQ on the NAMA site:

"NAMA will buy loans from the participating banks – these loans will be from the riskiest part of the bank portfolios"

Presumably, the banks will want to keep the less risky loans that they will be likely to profit from in the long-term and unload the no-hopers onto NAMA.

ei.sdraob

anybody else have a huge problem with complete lack of transparency in NAMA?

we are giving them a frigging 90billion+

doesnt the taxpayer at least deserve to know where and to whom it goes?


why can i see more and more tribunals (that amount to nothing but a bigger waste of more money) emerging out of this over next few decades

NotorietyH

Naz_st wrote: »

Presumably, the banks will want to keep the less risky loans that they will be likely to profit from in the long-term and unload the no-hopers onto NAMA.

Yes but the banks aren't exactly in a strong negotiating position. I've read in a few places that NAMA will be taking on some 'good' or 'non-toxic' loans too. I assume to at least have some chance of recovery the money invested. I don't think the banks are really going to get much of a say in which loans they get to hold on to.

Naz_st

NotorietyH wrote: »

Yes but the banks aren't exactly in a strong negotiating position. I've read in a few places that NAMA will be taking on some 'good' or 'non-toxic' loans too. I assume to at least have some chance of recovery the money invested. I don't think the banks are really going to get much of a say in which loans they get to hold on to.

I wouldn't bet on it. (Oh wait, as a taxpayer I guess I am betting on it! :rolleyes:)

Seriously though, I don't think it makes much sense to package up the good debts with the bad. NAMA is a bad bank, it's mandate is to take all the risky debts from the Irish banks and leave them in a stronger position going forward. That's certainly what all the official documentation on the NAMA website suggests at any rate.

jmayo

Lovelyjaws wrote: »

Surely taking over an internationally diversified property portfolio is actually better for Nama?

You would think but US property market has had terrible drops, so with Uk and Dubai, well does anyone want to buy and island the shpe of Ireland :rolleyes:

Lovelyjaws wrote: »

Did you see my other post? Ya NAMA is crap but we had the double whammy of a world recession and a property crash which obviously did a huge amount of damage.The reality is an economy doesn't exist without a stable financial system.

Luckily the irish banks weren't involved too much in the credit derivatives mess or we'd really be fooked

Yeah it coudl be worse :rolleyes:
Are you living in cloud la la land.
Anglo is a basket case to rival anything the Icelandic or US has had.
IN has been shown to be sitting on sh** loans with the whole Thomas Reed jokers little escapade in Kilternan.
AIB's lack of underwear has been highlighted by Carrolls little difficulites.
They are all in serious trouble and it is all home (pardon the pun) grown.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

exactly this only rewards the people with mortgages and who took a gamble

not fair on people who didnt buy into the whole property bubble
...

what happened to prudency and common sense

Screw that, no bailouts for personal mortgage holders who jumped on the bandwagon, no bailouts for hotels, private hospitals etc.
Only grants and money for home grown entities that generate employment and export earnings.

BTW commonsense and prudence were sold for a few quid in order to buy another apartment complex in Sunny beach

bleg

ei.sdraob wrote: »

new banks would arise with a clean slate

or banks external to Ireland would come in

Ireland: Hey everybody!!! Ireland needs new banks!!!!

Everybody: Oh really? What happened to the old ones?

Ireland: Never mind that!

ei.sdraob

bleg wrote: »

Ireland: Hey everybody!!! Ireland needs new banks!!!!

Everybody: Oh really? What happened to the old ones?

Ireland: Never mind that!

it wasn't Ireland that screwed up the banks its the banks that screwed up Ireland

dont forget that

loobylou

Naz_st wrote: »

I was just going by the FAQ on the NAMA site:

"NAMA will buy loans from the participating banks – these loans will be from the riskiest part of the bank portfolios"

Presumably, the banks will want to keep the less risky loans that they will be likely to profit from in the long-term and unload the no-hopers onto NAMA.

By "riskiest part" they mean the land and development part of the banking business.
http://www.finance.gov.ie/Viewprnt.asp?DocID=5875&StartDate=1+January+2009

Victor

who what when wrote: »

And considering that uk property prices are on the rise again, would it be correct to assume that the 25 billion debt over there is safe enough and may even return a profit?

Umm, wasn't there a big drop (a) in sterling prices (b) the value of sterling?

SkepticOne

loobylou wrote: »

According to the Minister of Finance, ALL property related loans above a value of €5m will be taken into NAMA.

He's been going around saying that there will be some good loans taken into NAMA among the bad but this is because it is very hard to know in advance the degree of impairment of the loan. Better to quickly transfer everything that is likely to drag the banks down and in this case it is property and development loans. But if there's anything good in there it will be by chance. It kind of defeats the purpose of helping the banks if good assets are going to be transferred out of them.

Nama is going to make an immediate loss as the initial transfer will be at the pretend "economic value" above the market value. It will then make greater losses as developer businesses deteriorate and the value of the underlying security falls further.

Purple Gorilla

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so by your line of thinking

we should also dig our grave while we are on our knees

climb into it

and die

:rolleyes:

NAMA is a terrible joke, proposed at a very bad time


our GDP is €134billion

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ei.html

NAMA is €90+ billion




do people just blank out and dont realize how much money is being stolen from then and their kids

Our GDP is €191 billion

SLUSK

Lovelyjaws wrote: »

if the banks fail who will lend money?How will people start businesses?If the banks fail everyone's savings will be lost and the goverment would be in no position to compensate anyone.It's not nice but bailing out the banks is the best way to go.

Competent bankers from other countries can buy up these banks. Why not let the market work, if you did you would not have these problems we see today. Banks act the way they do because they know they will always get a bailout. So the bubbles will only get worse and worse until everything collapses.

Purple Gorilla

I think it's because we don't have enough indigenous big companies in Ireland as it is...If we let our banks go then that's even less big Irish companies that we have left

SLUSK

So you want to save the incompetent because of patriotism? I would rather see every Swedish company crash than me having to pay one cent in taxes to save them.

Purple Gorilla

It's not patriotism. We can't just survive on FDI alone. Foreign companies have no loyalty to here. They can pack up when they want and move somewhere cheaper whereas indigenous companies generally keep their HQ and much employment within the country.

I would have expected that now, more than ever, people would realise that we need to strengthen our indigenous industry rather than just put all our strength into attracting FDI.

AlekSmart

anybody else have a huge problem with complete lack of transparency in NAMA?

+ 1 on the opaque glass box withion which the Nama stone lies.....

This thing stinks to high-heaven,but it`s not the sickly sweet stench of putrfying Property Magnates and friends of Fianna Fáil...no its the expensive gentlemens scent of the 19th hole where the current little difficulties can be sorted without TOO much acrimony.... :P

At this point,as Mr Cush SC prepares to yet again attempt a wind-up of a High Court Judge perhaps we should hold a referendum to call in the IMF and be done with it..?

The risks inherent in allowing the same gang who got us into the mess to try and get us out is WAAAY to much for my liking !!!!

ei.sdraob

AlekSmart wrote: »

perhaps we should hold a referendum to call in the IMF and be done with it..?

I can already imaging FF campaigning for a NO in such a referendum

imagine these posters on every lampost!

"NO NO! Rather the thieves you know than IMF! vote NO"