Rites Of Passage: Boyz II Men

tbh

So in a load of other cultures, both current and historic, rites of passage were a very important part in being regarded by your peers as a man rather than a boy.

Do you think we should have something like that in Irish culture? When did you start thinking of yourself as a grown-up? Or maybe more pertinent - when did you become aware of others thinking of you as a man, rather than as a boy?

For me, I think the biggest day was when I got my driving license (at 33!). Passing my test was a big deal. I also remember the day my dad told me he couldn't do my job - very proud moment for me, cause my dad is a really smart guy..

mjg

I think it would be a good thing, I can't really say why though. Just a vague feeling that having a defined point at which you are not considered a child anymore would make a difference to those before and after the rite of passage. Young teens before it may feel less pressure to grow-up, those after the point might have crossed a line in their own heads where they are leaving behind some childish habits etc.

At the moment, the closest thing that we have is the first legal drinking session in a pub, probably after four years of getting hammered anyway. If we had something that required some level of work/sacrifice before you were considered an adult, it might be character building.

Otis Driftwood

I think the biggest defining thing for me changing from a boy to a man was when my Grandfather died.He had lived with us for a couple of years then developed cancer and died in November 99.We were incredibly close,he was my absolute hero.He worked hard his whole life,loved his pints,loved cheesey action movies.Some of my best memories were from my teenage years sitting up late at night with him watching movies or just listening to his stories.

Anyway,the day of his funeral,a family friend who also happens to be a priest and I were talking about him and I was saying how much he ment to me but didnt know how to express it so he gave me a poem and asked would I read it at the funeral mass.I agreed and got up to read it,managing to get through the whole thing without breaking down in tears.It was the hardest thing Ive ever had to do especially given the fact that nearly every single person in the Church was in tears including my own Dad and my 3 uncles that never cried.It was after that that people who were there started to look at me differently and seemed to have a new found respect for me or that.This was a pivatol moment for me.

Below is the poem I read.Jesus Im teary eyed reading it again.

Goodbye
To my dearest family, something id like to say,
But first of all to let you know, that I arrived ok,
I’m writing this from heaven, where I dwell with God above,
Where there’s no more a tear or sadness, just eternal love.

Please don’t be unhappy just because I am out of sight,
Remember that I am with you, every morning, noon and night.
That day I had to leave you, when my life on Earth was through,
God picked me up and hugged me and said “I welcome you”
I need you here so badly, as part of my big plan,
There’s so much that we have to do, to help out mortal man.

Then God gave me a list of things he wished for me to do,
And foremost on that list of mine, is to watch and care for you,
And I will be beside you, everyday, and week and year,
And when you’re sad I’m waiting there to wipe away the tear.
And when you lie in your bed at night, the days Chores put to flight,
God and I are closest to you, In the middle of the night.

When you think of my life on earth, And all those living years,
Because you’re only human, they are bound to bring you tears,
But do not be afraid to cry, it does relieve the pain,
And remember there would be no Flowers unless there was some rain,

I wish that I could tell you of all that God has planned,
But if I were to tell you, you would not understand,
But one thing is certain, though my life on Earth is over,
I am closer to you now then I ever was before.

And to my many friends, trust God knows what is best,
I’m still not far away from you; I’m just beyond the crest,

There are rocky roads ahead of you, and many hills to climb,
But together we can do it, taking one day at a time,
And when your walking down the street, and you’ve got me on your mind
I am walking in your footsteps, only half a step behind,

And when you feel that gentle breeze or the wind upon your face,
That’s me giving you a great big hug, or just a soft embrace.
And when its time for you to go from that body to be free,
Remember you’re not going; you’re coming here to me,
And I will always love you from that land way up above,
I will be in touch again soon, P.S God sends his love.

fitz0

My moment was when I realised that getting drunk and singing "The Fields of Athenry" did not mean I was a patriotic Irishman. If only so many others would let go of their in-your-face-kill-the-brits-nationalism it might be a more grown up country, with less arseholes on a saturday night.

I suppose everyone has their own moment when they fell they've grown up, even if they don't realise it at the time.

r3nu4l

Unfortunately in many Irish households the first 'recognition' of manhood seems to be when a young lad turns 18 and the Dad says 'c'mon son, we're going to the pub and I'll buy you a pint'.

It didn't happen for me because back then myself and my Dad didn't get on too well (we get on great now ) but I know lots of guys who say that their first 'legal pint' was their defining moment. It's a nice image, a father and son sipping together on a pint in a quiet pub but I'm not sure that the focus on alcohol is a great marker of manhood. Don't get me wrong, I love my pints and single malts but I don't think that's the best way to be introduced to manhood.

Not sure what we could do in Ireland, I wonder what traditions exist in other families, other than the 'down the pub for a pint with me Da' tradition?

Otis Driftwood

I dont think my Dad has ever drank a pint.:(

I actually have an image in my head for what I would like to do should I ever have a son.

Any of you seen the episode of Malcolm in the Middle when Francis turns 21?

Something like that.Go hunting for a weekend,talk about life and try and give some worldly advice that he will undoubtadly disregard completly.

Snowie

I think it was on a family hoilday in ibiza


and she was a lot older then me :cool:

suey71

I think that the first pint with your Da is only welcoming you to being a man in training.

I felt like a kid until I was in my 30's. I only felt like a man when I had lots of responsabuilities ie. kids, wife, mortgage and dog. Not neccessarily in that order.

But I realised I was a man when I got through financial hardships, brought kids to the hospital and knowing other people are totally depending on me.

There are some guys out there who drink alot, fight alot, shag alot, but they're not men.

Will

We have it a lot easier than some places. There is a video on youtube by national geographic about an african tribe, when boys become men. Ritual scarification done by the blacksmith, it signifies you are a man and aren't treated as such until you have undergone the ritual.
View at your own discretion, nsfw I would imagine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfhot7tQcWs

Then there's whipping matches where you fight against other tribes. Will just link to them, don't wanna disturb folks too much. And the ladies get facial tattoos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81JPj8BqBBQ

Anyway enough of my lil anthropology lesson

I really don't know when I started to think of myself as a man, I still forget I'm fully grown and for all intensive purposes 'a man'. Was chatting about it with my dad, and he was saying you know your a man when the gardaí get younger and smaller looking :pac:

Don't think I accept that I'm a man yet. It's a weird feeling. In a court of law I'd be tried as an adult. But being an adult and being a grown man are different, same for being an adult and being a woman. I am on the same wave length as my parents I suppose and chat to them about my brother and sister, and my dad asks me for help with DIY things. Quite a conundrum to be honest.

Great thread.

Snowie

I think its down to this..

when you have the nobility to admit you have been wrong, that some times its
not your place to say things. Be the bigger man and apologize with out feeling
disgraced. But also have respect for those who are around you maybe?
the ability to say one thing yet think something else. very gentlemanly...
I don't think there's a true, turning point i think its more a state of mind...

Fajitas!

I think when I moved out of home was the first time really (18 years old). Doing my own shopping for menial sh*te like pitta bread, washing powder and milk, rather than beer and crisps. Stupid stuff that I'd done before, but just not for myself - budgeting without going 'ah, Da, any chance of a twenty?' and so on.

Not as epic as cultural, ritualistic or defining as any of the other posts here, but I think it's really when I told myself to cop on a bit, yer not a young fellah no more :pac:

I still got my mammy to wash my clothes when I went back to Waterford.

Hellrazer

I think when you have to face up to what life throws at you and handle it yourself without turning to your parents or anyone else is when you can be considered a man.

For me personally it was when my oldest was born 12 weeks early.With only a 25% chance of living I had to face up to what could have happened and what was happening--I had to be the "man" in the relationship.

The fact that there was nothing my parents could do to make things "better" made me grow up qute quickly.

For me this time was a life changing time of my life.

fryup

an irish rites of passage??

sure thats easy, its getting your end away

just like it is in every country throughout the world:D

maherro

I dont think anyone thing or act changed me from thinking of myself of a teenager to thinking of myself as a man. It was lots of little things like speaking at my grandmothers funeral, helping friends cope with break ups bereavements, becoming one of the senior rugby players in my school (when we were younger me and my mates worshipped the seniors) living on my own for the first time, standing up for my friends (I dont get really get hassled, not too sure why, im not the biggest). lots of little thigs.

That being said a manhood ritual would be cool as long as it wasnt be stupid or alcohol sodden.