Guild Wars 2

Laviski

Playboy wrote: »

Kinda backwards to be moaning about the game for things it was never meant to be

well said

uncle_sam_ie

With all do respect there is a lot to do at level 80. Only you have to make fun for yourself, GW2 doesn't hand it all to you on a silver platter. How do people have fun in EvE or Minecraft or World of Tanks. My son is still playing Skyrim and having fun moding it. Dungeons are influenced by dynamic events. So with eight dungeons providing at least thirty-three different experiences. How is that not end game. I did a few over the weekend and they weren't tank and spank. It breaks away from the holy trinity and those mechanics and tries something new. I'm finding it more tactical. Things like well timed blocks, skill synergy, and situational awareness can make all the difference between a whipe fest and a fun, fast experience. ArenaNet made a gorgeous and fun game and you can't appreciate it for what it is. In stead you demand treadmill gated endgame, beat it in a month, and then whine and abandon a game for not having enough content. Maybe the problem is that no MMO will ever satisfy you.

Dcully

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

With all do respect there is a lot to do at level 80. Only you have to make fun for yourself, GW2 doesn't hand it all to you on a silver platter. How do people have fun in EvE or Minecraft or World of Tanks. My son is still playing Skyrim and having fun moding it. Dungeons are influenced by dynamic events. So with eight dungeons providing at least thirty-three different experiences. How is that not end game. I did a few over the weekend and they weren't tank and spank. It breaks away from the holy trinity and those mechanics and tries something new. I'm finding it more tactical. Things like well timed blocks, skill synergy, and situational awareness can make all the difference between a whipe fest and a fun, fast experience. ArenaNet made a gorgeous and fun game and you can't appreciate it for what it is. In stead you demand treadmill gated endgame, beat it in a month, and then whine and abandon a game for not having enough content. Maybe the problem is that no MMO will ever satisfy you.

Who is this "you" that your referring to?

Playboy

Dcully wrote: »

Who is this "you" that your referring to?

I assume the people who are moaning re lack of endgame PvE

Magill

I said about 3 weeks ago that i was extremely disappointed with the endgame, see im not the only one that feels like that now. Really was a horrible decision from the developers not to include endgame raiding and im sure they know it themselves (I think the average concurrent player base has fallen about 60% in the last few weeks, an even sharper/quicker fall than diablo 3 had !).Shame as it had so much potential.

People actually thought the game would have enough activity to warrant its only forum

delta36

Magill wrote: »

I said about 3 weeks ago that i was extremely disappointed with the endgame, see im not the only one that feels like that now. Really was a horrible decision from the developers not to include endgame raiding and im sure they know it themselves (I think the average concurrent player base has fallen about 60% in the last few weeks, an even sharper/quicker fall than diablo 3 had !).Shame as it had so much potential.

People actually thought the game would have enough activity to warrant its only forum

And yet,as other people on the thread have been saying, they are still enjoying it, and as I myself pointed out earlier, this game isn't about racing to the max level to get to the "real game" as something like WoW seems to be, it's about enjoying the journey. I also think your estimation for the concurrent player base drop off might be a little hyperbolic.

I would however be interested to see what the actual drop off was, from the million pre orders there were to how many regularly play the game now. Obviously, like any new game, there'd be drop off, but I don't think it's as big as you're estimating it to be.

ShaneScouse

Magill wrote: »

I said about 3 weeks ago that i was extremely disappointed with the endgame, see im not the only one that feels like that now. Really was a horrible decision from the developers not to include endgame raiding and im sure they know it themselves (I think the average concurrent player base has fallen about 60% in the last few weeks, an even sharper/quicker fall than diablo 3 had !).Shame as it had so much potential.

People actually thought the game would have enough activity to warrant its only forum

No offense mate but 60% drop rate? reminds me of that famous anchorman line.

Dont belive everything on the forums, We all know or should bloody know that the people vexed and bored and full of rage are the ones who need to be heard, they gota make sure everyone knows how crap or boring or dull the game is, because they feel that way and so should we all.
There has been a big drop rate but nothing as big as you say, and show me any mmo that hasnt droped numbers after 30days(inc wow at its begining) and Ill give you my cat.

The game was stated as an pvp orientated game, it was never going to have raids or a holy trinity, and it wasnt even going to have levels till they caved into 'conform' to what we are used to. To think you were gona have a constant treadmill pve endgame was daft, and not backed up by any boasts by Anet or anyone, bar maybe your mates trying to hype you

Its a F2P game, that promises constant free updates over the next while, If it doesnt have the content to eat your whole evenings then go play something else as alot of you have stated, wow or w.e and fair play to ya's, I can see the lure of other MMOs, esp ones you have a habit/comfort zone in. But to say the game is dying or a FOTM because it isn't what you wanted or had pictured it would be like, is just blabber.

(Fyi I aint a Anet ar$e licker, the game is riddle with bugs and probs and many make me want to punch the wall, but its a great game and to me its pros outweigh its cons, and just kinda tired of reading peoples dooms and glooms because its not WoW2, the logic behind peoples reasoning to the game just baffles me at times)

Omphin

Magill wrote: »

I said about 3 weeks ago that i was extremely disappointed with the endgame, see im not the only one that feels like that now. Really was a horrible decision from the developers not to include endgame raiding and im sure they know it themselves (I think the average concurrent player base has fallen about 60% in the last few weeks, an even sharper/quicker fall than diablo 3 had !).Shame as it had so much potential.

People actually thought the game would have enough activity to warrant its only forum

You totally missed the whole point of the game. its a pvp endgame game with a pve leveling system ( the best ive seen yet) it is not WoW. WoW is all about pve endgame once u hit max level. GW2 is about pvp endgame. The only people that have left the game are people that misunderstood the direction of the game. IT was never meant to be about pve endgame

Dcully

Omphin wrote: »

The only people that have left the game are people that misunderstood the direction of the game. IT was never meant to be about pve endgame

Not true im afraid mate, well atleast not true in my case.
I did not misunderstand anything about what direction the game would take,infact i said it countless times on this forum what peopel should expect.
Im a PVE player at heart hence why i said i thoroughly enjoyed the leveling experience in GW2 as they really have nailed the leveling experience.
Ive never been a pvp fan but GW2 is by far the best pvp experience ive had in an mmo but the fact remains i just get bored of pvp rather quickly,thats not the games fault.
Running around to explore every heart or poi in the game doesnt interest me at all personally.
I actually found the poi searching to be tedious by the time i hit lvl 40,but again thats just personal taste.
Id also like to add that in no way did i rush to lvl 80, it actually took me well over a week to decide on a character to stick with,after that it was the fastest leveling experience ive had in an mmo ,i went from lvl 70-80 in 3 hours one friday night when i got into a group and we just ran around doing heart quests.

TheDoc

Totally put my hand up.

Went into this without ever playing Guild Wars 1, and barely read up on GW2. And I very much expected there to be PvE content, I wasn't aware it was a full on PvP game when you get to the top.

And I guess it makes sense as the dungeons were pretty weird and didn't feel right, but there was some good group mechanics that I thought I'd get to explore at max level. So yeah, I guess its my fault that I assumed there would be PvE endgame.

Now that I've informed myself, if anything it assures I probably wont ever log in again, which is a pity. There was some good **** there.

PvP just isnt for me, no interest and feel its always more class based then player ability based. And the bit of PvP ( or whatever they call it in GW2) didnt hold my attention one bit.

Also that "60%" is a massive lie, unless there is a reference, but a few lads last night were saying their server looks pretty dead when it was packed, and one of the main Gw2 streamers yesterday afternoon was talking about how quieter it has become.

I know for myself and most of the lads I play with, Gw2 was a filler before WoW, that we hoped to play during WoW downtime, but with no raiding content, we've pretty much shelved it : /

Magill

ShaneScouse wrote: »

No offense mate but 60% drop rate? reminds me of that famous anchorman line.

Dont belive everything on the forums, We all know or should bloody know that the people vexed and bored and full of rage are the ones who need to be heard, they gota make sure everyone knows how crap or boring or dull the game is, because they feel that way and so should we all.
There has been a big drop rate but nothing as big as you say, and show me any mmo that hasnt droped numbers after 30days(inc wow at its begining) and Ill give you my cat.

http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2

Yeah, i read wrong. It was hours played... still a huge drop (And i know xfire isn't that popular anymore, but its a pretty big sample).

Omphin wrote: »

You totally missed the whole point of the game. its a pvp endgame game with a pve leveling system ( the best ive seen yet) it is not WoW. WoW is all about pve endgame once u hit max level. GW2 is about pvp endgame. The only people that have left the game are people that misunderstood the direction of the game. IT was never meant to be about pve endgame

Its a shame i thought the PVP was quite boring aswel, its just serg'ing with very little complexity to it. I never missed the point of the game, i was just disappointed that there was nothing to do when max level.

Hawke

A large portion of my guild stopped playing as they got disinterested in playing due to getting stomped in WvW and having to wait a week for the matchmaking to kick in. It was a major slip on the developers part to set up anything longer than 2 or 3 day server rotation while still having free transfers on. The idea of free transfers at any point past beta was a ridiculous one.

One a day is a much better choice, they validated their decision by saying it was to help people whose friends were still selecting a server but really if your friends are swapping server more than once a day they should sort themselves out. Once the servers were more balanced it got a lot more fun but we had lost about have our WvW size at that point. Still having fun with the game, other than leveling to play more story quests is a pain.

Big Knox

Dcully wrote: »

Not true im afraid mate, well atleast not true in my case.
I did not misunderstand anything about what direction the game would take,infact i said it countless times on this forum what peopel should expect.
Im a PVE player at heart hence why i said i thoroughly enjoyed the leveling experience in GW2 as they really have nailed the leveling experience.
Ive never been a pvp fan but GW2 is by far the best pvp experience ive had in an mmo but the fact remains i just get bored of pvp rather quickly,thats not the games fault.
Running around to explore every heart or poi in the game doesnt interest me at all personally.
I actually found the poi searching to be tedious by the time i hit lvl 40,but again thats just personal taste.
Id also like to add that in no way did i rush to lvl 80, it actually took me well over a week to decide on a character to stick with,after that it was the fastest leveling experience ive had in an mmo ,i went from lvl 70-80 in 3 hours one friday night when i got into a group and we just ran around doing heart quests.

To be fair Cully that really should be "I'm a WoW player at heart". PvE (Player v Environment) IS running around getting 100% map completion as much as it is the WoW style trinity dungeons.

The vast majority of MMO's these days are WoW-clones and have adopted that style of PvE but do not confuse PvE as being this alone. It really annoys me when people think this.

I can understand both sides of the argument on this. GW2 was never about hitting the cap and then having "PvE endgame" open up to the player. The levelling experience was and is the PvE but ultimately the game is based around PvP and I'm fine with that.

What I did initially praise however and what has caused me to stop playing the past few weeks is the lack of the gear threadmil. I thought it would be a great system and have a balanced playing field for sPvP (which is a good idea). But I found PvPing with no reward actually gets quite tedious with nothing to work towards.

The dungeons are meh. No trinity is a nice change and can work but the fact you can corpse run pretty much all the content smacks of them not getting the balance or difficulty right at all.

It's still a great game and I have alot of respect for Anet for going their own direction with an MMO, something which should be greatly encouraged as the genre is extremely old and tired at this stage. I will continue to play from time to time (again thanks to their lack of a monthly fee) but I've moved on for now. And no I don't mean back to WoW!

Dcully

To be fair Cully that really should be "I'm a WoW player at heart". PvE (Player v Environment) IS running around getting 100% map completion as much as it is the WoW style trinity dungeons.

I should have made it more clear, Endgame PVE is what im into ie dungeons and raiding
I enjoyed rift,Age of Conan and swtor endgame pve too but there simply wasnt enough of it,thats the only reason i always seem to go back to wow,that and the fact the new expansion arrived around the time i was tiring of GW2.

I dont regret buying GW2, ill play WvW every so often and maybe level an alt.
I thoroughly enjoyed leveling up,absolutely no reason i wont enjoy another toon or two over time.

Inquitus

I am done with GW2, I really enjoyed it and got my moneys worth, but it lacks anything to do at lvl 80.

WvWvW is just mindless zerg and there's not real fun in it, the instances didn't float my boat enough to repeat them, and there's not quest to get better gear as you can essentially kit yourself out in the best gear very easily.

Wossack

Im also on hiatus, but I'll be back

one of the mega plus points of the non-sub model, can drop and resume at will

Dave_The_Sheep

Wossack wrote: »

Im also on hiatus, but I'll be back

one of the mega plus points of the non-sub model, can drop and resume at will

I think there'll be a lot of people doing that. Get to 80 or so, drop off/re-roll and see where the game goes. If they're not happy with it they can leave it for a while and dip back in whenever they want.

ShaneScouse

Dcully wrote: »

I should have made it more clear, Endgame PVE is what im into ie dungeons and raiding
I enjoyed rift,Age of Conan and swtor endgame pve too but there simply wasnt enough of it,thats the only reason i always seem to go back to wow,that and the fact the new expansion arrived around the time i was tiring of GW2.

I dont regret buying GW2, ill play WvW every so often and maybe level an alt.
I thoroughly enjoyed leveling up,absolutely no reason i wont enjoy another toon or two over time.

See I really don't think GW2 was trying to fill that void, the get max toon and farm endgame. Just don't think they were aiming for it, and they obv didn't with way game is, I love doing the runs for most part but I'm just not in a place right now where I want to be spending whole evenings farming runs again and again or giving over most my evening to a raid. I did that for a while in lotro and rift, and it was great craic esp if u play with a small cliche of mates but just Ain't stomach for that grind or timesink at the mo, Gw2 suits me to a tee where you can do 1 run a night and do some pvp or lvl an alt or just faff about exploring.
Casual man/pvpers mmo is what they were aiming for and I still think they got it to a tee. Granted 10 posts of people leaving or going back to wow for shorterm would signal a not perfect game, but I dont think it worries Anet, as Not sure there what they planned their playerbase to be anyways, I think

Magill

Big Knox wrote: »

What I did initially praise however and what has caused me to stop playing the past few weeks is the lack of the gear threadmil. I thought it would be a great system and have a balanced playing field for sPvP (which is a good idea). But I found PvPing with no reward actually gets quite tedious with nothing to work towards.

The dungeons are meh. No trinity is a nice change and can work but the fact you can corpse run pretty much all the content smacks of them not getting the balance or difficulty right at all.

Big Knox

Magill wrote: »

Are you agreeing with me or laughing at me. I'm confused? :P

Magill

Well.. more like your agreeing with me now :P

Big Knox

Magill wrote: »

Well.. more like your agreeing with me now :P

Touché

Dave_The_Sheep

Dinged 80 last night. I have most of the dungeons left to do though, seeing as how I made most of my level 40-80 XP in WvW and crafting. We'll have to see how the "endgame" stacks up after this.

Or I could go play Torchlight 2 for a few days.

delta36

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Dinged 80 last night. I have most of the dungeons left to do though, seeing as how I made most of my level 40-80 XP in WvW and crafting. We'll have to see how the "endgame" stacks up after this.

Or I could go play Torchlight 2 for a few days.

You using the word ding reminded me of this: http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1466#comic

Lone Stone

I cant really bring myself to log in at the moment, but sure in a few update's im sure il be back definitely got my moneys worth, but right now its log in.. stand around or do some wvw which i find fairly boring as i did a fair bit of lvling in it. Spvp is good hasnt really hooked me in.

I find the dungeons fairly annoying for the most part and not very fun or rewarding and this whole diminishing returns thing is a real turn off on top of the fact the gear i already have is equal to the token gear, so i see no reason to the pve dungeons as i dont find them enjoyable enough to stick with it.

Yeah so anyway il probably pop in and out from time to time but il be waiting to see some big update's for the "end game".

Completionist

Just some advice for everyone.

• Forget about levels, Imagine while playing that they do not exist.
• Levelling is not important.
• Gearing is not important.

You should be:

• Having fun exploring the world
• Having fun playing the dynamic events
• Having fun with the personal story
• Having fun with all the puzzles
• Having fun with WvW
• Having fun with sPvP
• Having fun not needing to worry about gear balance.
• Having fun collecting item skins
• Having fun(Not collecting items) in the instances

If you are not doing or can not see yourself doing the above then Gw2 is not for you.

It is not about:

• Racing to 80
• Getting the best gear possible
• Panda's
• Structured PvE(Holy Trinity)
• Playing non-stop, It is not a subscription based game!

Please do not complain because Gw2 is not a WoW clone, You are destroying the genre and preventing innovation if all you ever want is WoW and if anything is not WoW then you must flame and rage on the internet. Just because it has decided to ditch the norm and remove "end game" does not make it a bad game and does not mean they will ever add an end game and if they do, Thanks for destroying Gw2!

This is not directed at anyone, Just seems that all the complaints I see on the internet are people raging that Gw2 is not WoW:/

Canis Lupus

Completionist wrote: »

Just some advice for everyone.

• Forget about levels, Imagine while playing that they do not exist.
• Levelling is not important.
• Gearing is not important.

You should be:

• Having fun exploring the world
• Having fun playing the dynamic events
• Having fun with the personal story
• Having fun with all the puzzles
• Having fun with WvW
• Having fun with sPvP
• Having fun not needing to worry about gear balance.
• Having fun collecting item skins
• Having fun(Not collecting items) in the instances

If you are not doing or can not see yourself doing the above then Gw2 is not for you.

It is not about:

• Racing to 80
• Getting the best gear possible
• Panda's
• Structured PvE(Holy Trinity)
• Playing non-stop, It is not a subscription based game!

Please do not complain because Gw2 is not a WoW clone, You are destroying the genre and preventing innovation if all you ever want is WoW and if anything is not WoW then you must flame and rage on the internet. Just because it has decided to ditch the norm and remove "end game" does not make it a bad game and does not mean they will ever add an end game and if they do, Thanks for destroying Gw2!

This is not directed at anyone, Just seems that all the complaints I see on the internet are people raging that Gw2 is not WoW:/

You can't just say here's a game now have 'fun'. That's a ridiculous premise especially if the ideas in the game are flawed or there's no content to have 'fun' with. GW2 is frankly, a bit crap. I'm not saying there's no potential but right now it's dull.

TheDoc

Completionist wrote: »

Please do not complain because Gw2 is not a WoW clone, You are destroying the genre and preventing innovation if all you ever want is WoW and if anything is not WoW then you must flame and rage on the internet. Just because it has decided to ditch the norm and remove "end game" does not make it a bad game and does not mean they will ever add an end game and if they do, Thanks for destroying Gw2!

This is not directed at anyone, Just seems that all the complaints I see on the internet are people raging that Gw2 is not WoW:/

You've some good points but in fairness overall a bit nieve.

You know there is a very simple reason why people hold WoW in such high regard, while it didn't invent the genre, it refined it, and it provided, patch after patch, new innovative features that have become THE STANDARD in MMO's.

If you cut the crap from people who want to be contraversial for the sake of it, WoW is a nearly perfect game, and by far the best and most complete MMO, for reasons I shouldnt have to go into.

WoW's actual biggest fault, recognised by most players, the staff themselves and critics, is how they handled PvP, and that implementing it into the game, entirely put the thing off balance for almost three expansions, making it impossible to balance perfectly. When infact PvP simply should have been provided through a seperate client (Ref: One of the head designers mentioned this at Blizzcon during MOP release, when asked if they could go back and change something, it was this)

The problem with most developers is they come into the genre and the first thing they mark down is " Be different to WoW". Innovation isnt dieing, its not being attempted. WoW has put the stamp on pretty much EVERY MUST HAVE feature for an MMO game.

Star Wars had one of the biggest budgets in gaming and was an audacious attempt at toppling WoW of the top, and for a number of reasons it failed. And so many more.

WoW is 8 years old, there is 8 YEARS of data and analysis for companies and developers to review, to see the benchmark before going into making their game. To ommit standard features " because WoW has it" is simply ensuring your game doesnt survive for long.

The first 30 days are critical in any MMO, its simply put when the player decides to continue or to not. And for most MMO players, they come from experience, they come from another mmo. So levelling, is actually, not fun. I know with all the guys I play MMO's with ( about 20?) one guy likes levelling....one...

For the rest its the montonous task of getting used to the mechanics, the character, the rotations and other classes, to get ready for endgame.

While you might think WoW is destroying MMO's, or its fans destroying your GW2 love, its actually the opposite.

While developers continue to want to be different then simply put they are not going to get the numbers required to be anyway succesfull.

GW2 is fine and grand, if you enjoy PVP. But I'd have liked for maybe it to be a bit more obvious, as someone who never touched GW before, I'd come in with an expectation of an actual MMO.

In short, this game has no need for levelling, if all endgame is is PVP, which has no rewards. Just give everyone the gear, as they currently do with scaling, and let them at it....

The levelling is just fluff, sets false expectations, and is completely un neccasary

Kiith

I agree that you can't just say "Have fun with...", and have the game be fun. You have to enjoy doing some of those things for it to be fun.
I don't agree that it's a bit crap though. You don't like it, fair enough. But to say it's crap is hugely unfair.

Kiith

I agree that you can't just say "Have fun with...", and have the game be fun. You have to enjoy doing some of those things for it to be fun.
I don't agree that it's a bit crap though. You don't like it, fair enough. But to say it's crap is hugely unfair.

uncle_sam_ie

Canis Lupus wrote: »

You can't just say here's a game now have 'fun'. That's a ridiculous premise especially if the ideas in the game are flawed or there's no content to have 'fun' with. GW2 is frankly, a bit crap. I'm not saying there's no potential but right now it's dull.

I can understand why you think it is crap or dull. But, maybe you're thinking this because you are unaware of how dynamic events work or the hidden gems throughout the game. While playing GW2 I see a lot people running from heart to heart and missing the whole story. At one point in the game I came across a building with a locked gate. Most people around me ran off but I stuck around and talked to all the NCP's around the gate. One said I should go and check out an area on the map so I did. When I got there I found a portal that got me into the building. I spent an hour in there. You had to do a jumping puzzle to get a sword that opened more locked gates that eventually got you to fight a boss and a chest reward. For me that was really fun and a lot different from other games I've played (expected maybe Skyrim). If you have no interest in any of that then GW2 is not the game for you

Check this video out. It explains dynamic events and why slowing down is important in GW2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTF9T4oQ480&feature=g-all-u

The key is to take your time and remind yourself that this is not a game like WoW. Which by the way I still think is a good game. I just don't have the time for raiding anymore. Thats one reason why I like this game. I don't have to commit my time to it. With no sub I can just dip in and dip out.

TheDoc

To get anal about it

Completionist wrote: »

• Forget about levels, Imagine while playing that they do not exist.
  Nieve, its an MMO, its all about levelling, and getting that next "ding"
• Levelling is not important.
  Yes it is, if not, then the game has dozens of hours of fluff to extend its life more then it is, if not important, give people max level at start ( or no levels at all)
• Gearing is not important.
  As above. They give you a pvp set scaled when you enter pvp at any level, why not do it from the start and be comfortable being what is is. MMO's are about dinging and gearing

You should be:

• Having fun exploring the world
  Its gorgous alright, but the games progression should take you there, this isnt Assassins creed getting flags
• Having fun playing the dynamic events
  They are fun, after a while a bit smothering, but fun
• Having fun with the personal story
  MEh, its an MMO, not an RPG, lost interest after a few cutscenes, predictable as ****
• Having fun with all the puzzles
  Its an MMO, not Broken Sword....
• Having fun with WvW
  Random dice throw, no balance, no tactics, a zerg rush, nice for the scale, the first few times, then its boring
• Having fun with sPvP
  Imablanced to ****, absolutely down to your class, not your ability.
• Having fun not needing to worry about gear balance.
  Defies the point of levelling and gearing. Why not have no levels, you get a starter set and then earn more through winning?
• Having fun collecting item skins
  Have fun with their micro transactions....aviator shades in a fantasy universe
• Having fun(Not collecting items) in the instances
  They work horribly, they are not balanced at all, there is no tactics bar dps, not even tanking required, they just dont work at all

If you are not doing or can not see yourself doing the above then Gw2 is not for you.

It is not about:

• Racing to 80
  Unless your new to MMO's, levelling is always a pain and monotonous. Levelling in this game is pointless and just adds lifespan to it, which wouldnt be there otherwise
• Getting the best gear possible
  Then its not an MMO, then there is no pressure to get better, to progress your character, and challenge yourself against more challenging peaks
• Panda's
  There are some pretty **** races in GW2.....
• Structured PvE(Holy Trinity)
  Why reinvent the wheel, the GW2, everyone do everything, doesnt work at all fluidly, and is a mess
• Playing non-stop, It is not a subscription based game!
  It helps wanting to play the game every evening, its a sign you have a good game on your hands. The amount of people saying " sure i can put it down for months and come back, cause its free" its a flux, and really means its not enjoyable, or there is nothing to do, but i dont feel pressured in playing cause im not paying per month

As much as "WoW love" might annoy you, the quiet boring and old "WoW bashing" annoys me too.

I'll very happily applaud a new game and call it WoW's equal, if it ever happens....which it probably wont,

The only thing that will probably equal or better WoW is Titan, and thats cause Blizzard are making it

TheDoc

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I just don't have the time for raiding anymore. Thats one reason why I like this game. I don't have to commit my time to it. With no sub I can just dip in and dip out.

Thats fooling yourself imo, and the same thing I said last week. Then when I got back into WoW I realised, GW2 has nothing to come back to, and because your not hung over a subscription, you dont feel the need to go back straight away.

If it had anything decent to do bar handing people their asses in a zerg rush, I'm sure people would be playing it, not talking about how they will play it again later

I was recommending this game big time, the classes looked good, the rotations were clever, the levelling was good.

Two days up at max level realised the levelling was all a load of bollox to give the game more life, and there is nothing of interest if you arnt into PvP.

They literally should have just had no levels, give everyone base gear, and you get better gear as you rank up or something.

There is absolutely no need for levelling in this game, what, so , ever. Bar them wanting to expand their games life ...

_Puma_

I followed GW2 from the start and remember them contemplating not having a level cap in this game at all. At the time I thought it was crazy but now its starting to make more sense!

Some people have rushed through the game to level 80 and missed all the complexity of the zones. I have completed (100%) in 5 zones so far and am loving it. Mix in with that completing 2 dungeons, and the personal story up to the zones I have completed and there is no lack of content.(Btw I have this since the head-start)

I am constantly involved in something or have a set task all the time I play. The 2 dungeons I have completed definitely gave that rush of adrenaline ya get from playing instances.

If there was some sort of Super dungeon at level 80 for like 20 players or something, that might help people get over the fact that there is no endgame per say. Knowing Arenanet's track record for listening to its customers I wouldn't be surprised to see it in future expansions.

Kiith

TheDoc wrote: »

Then it's not an mmo...

I agree with some of your points above, but not this. It's not a traditional mmo, certainly. But it's definitely an mmo. Not all mmo's have to be about a gear grind. There are plenty of ways to spend time enjoying the game. It just might not suit certain people (possibly the majority, i can't say). I applaud them for doing it different, as 90% of mmo's nowadays are just carbon copies of Warcraft, hoping to get a small slice of their pie.

It's doesn't have to be an either/or scenario anyway. There's plenty of room for both games to exist together. PvP in Guild Wars 2 and PvE in Warcraft. It's still only 1 subscription fee.

As for Titan...while i don't have anywhere near as much faith in Blizzard since Activision took over, you're probably right.

uncle_sam_ie

TheDoc wrote: »

In short, this game has no need for levelling, if all endgame is is PVP, which has no rewards. Just give everyone the gear, as they currently do with scaling, and let them at it....

The levelling is just fluff, sets false expectations, and is completely un neccasary

I think you're still not getting PVE dynamic events in GW2. Check out that video I linked in my previous post. I can remember my noob days when I first played WoW. I didn't know anything about the game. I didn't know what raids were or anything. I read all the quest and tried to figure out what I needed to do. It was so much fun and exploring the world was magical. The firsts day WoW were the best. I can remember as a warrior running around Ironforge, staff in hand, looking in amazement at this underground city. It's not about leveling or end game for me anymore. I just want that exploring magic back. Gw2 does this for me.

TheDoc

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I think you're still not getting PVE dynamic events in GW2. Check out that video I linked in my previous post. I can remember my noob days when I first played WoW. I didn't know anything about the game. I didn't know what raids were or anything. I read all the quest and tried to figure out what I needed to do. It was so much fun and exploring the world was magical. The firsts day WoW were the best. I can remember as a warrior running around Ironforge, staff in hand, looking in amazement at this underground city. It's not about leveling or end game for me anymore. I just want that exploring magic back. Gw2 does this for me.

I've done plenty of the PvE events on my levelling, if not all of them, with randomers and parties.

And it was mostly, stand in position, and just spam aoe, or spam aoe heals.

Wasnt exactly ground breaking to be fair...

uncle_sam_ie

TheDoc wrote: »

I've done plenty of the PvE events on my levelling, if not all of them, with randomers and parties.

And it was mostly, stand in position, and just spam aoe, or spam aoe heals.

Wasnt exactly ground breaking to be fair...

I'm not talking about the mechanics of the fight. I'm talk about the dynamic event chain stories.
Doc it took you two days to hit max lv. In doing so you missed out on 90% of what the game has to offer. That's not the way this game is suppose to be played. It would suck for people who played it that way. You were also leveling with loads of people in the zones so all the dynamic events would have been in the success stage most of the time. So you missed the start of them in the failed stage and didn't get to see how they play out. Thats why my first few days were spent exploring Lions arch and Divinity's Reach. I wanted to avoid that pack. You need to play GW2 kinda like you would play Skyrim. But,you might not like playing those type of games though. There is nothing wrong with that:)

Ishmael

I have been playing this game since its release and i have to say i have enjoyed it for the most part but i do have a few gripes. Just for the record, it is the first time i have played an MMO.

What i have enjoyed:
Playing with friends and guild and gaining various achievements.
Map exploration and finding hidden chests etc around the various maps.
Building skills and making money to strengthen guild.

What has annoyed me:
Prior to the patch on the 1st of October, the bugs on the level 70-80 zones and level 80 zones were very annoying. At one point, almost all the events on "Cursed Shore" were bugged

Since they were fixed, everyone in those zones seems to be only interested in constant farming, to the point where i had an argument with a guy who was telling people not to let an event progress so he could farm items.

Being unable to gain 100% map exploration due to Unbalanced WvW. Our server is completely outnumbered by the server we are matched with and it is impossible to gain a foothold anywhere on any of the maps. I know i could just change server, but that would mean leaving my guild or trying to convince the guild to move.

As for playing WvW, i've only engaged in a small number of attacks on a few small bases but found it frustrating being outnumbered and not having enough people to defend an area if we take it despite what defenses are set up.

Dungeons, most of them seem to be just a selection of go here, kill this, go there, kill that, go over there and kill that other thing too. Only one of the "dungeons" i found actually involved puzzles and it wasn't even one of the proper dungeons.

Big Knox

TheDoc wrote: »

To get anal about it



As much as "WoW love" might annoy you, the quiet boring and old "WoW bashing" annoys me too.

I'll very happily applaud a new game and call it WoW's equal, if it ever happens....which it probably wont,

The only thing that will probably equal or better WoW is Titan, and thats cause Blizzard are making it

GW2 is as much as an MMO as WoW is. As are Eve, Darkfall and the way Ultima was. For the most part none of them have much in common with WoW's take on the genre or vice versa but they are all MMO's and none more so than the others.

WoW was a great game. Vanilla was new and fun with a fantastic end game with constant content updates. It was very casual and it attracted a massive playerbase due to the nature of the game and the hype at the time. But WoW has not been a great game for a number of years now. Four expansions and it hasn't changed very much at all. Raise the level cap, introduce a new area and release more content; rinse and repeat. They also never got any part of the PvP right.

WoW is the daddy for dungeon raiding PvE no doubt but it's success killed the genre (bit of a paradox) as nearly every MMO since has tried to copy it which was never going to work. It has alot of problems and it hasn't done anything innovative in years but it was and will always be King of endgame raiding. Games trying to emulate this were always going to fail. It's much like gaming as a whole. We are stuck in a rut of recycled ideas and no imagination as devs won't take chances with games and will try emulate the biggest success stories.

It's resulted in the MMO genre going incredibly stale for years now and understandably it has made people believe the MMO is the WoW model and anything else isn't a "real MMO" and that is by far the most Naive part of it.

Personally I got bored of WoW right after TBC but stuck with it like most others. It was a terrible expansion which brought nothing new of worth and actually managed to mess up the work that had done up to that point regarding balance and gear progression. Something they haven't got right since!

I applaud GW2 for its take on things. It may not be perfect but it's a damn fine game and done what it set out to do very well. Criticising it because it lacks "PvE endgame" is a result of this belief that the WoW model is the MMO model and anything else is doing it wrong.

TheDoc

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

I'm not talking about the mechanics of the fight. I'm talk about the dynamic event chain stories.
Doc it took you two days to hit max lv. In doing so you missed out on 90% of what the game has to offer. That's not the way this game is suppose to be played. It would suck for people who played it that way. You were also leveling with loads of people in the zones so all the dynamic events would have been in the success stage most of the time. So you missed the start of them in the failed stage and didn't get to see how they play out. Thats why my first few days were spent exploring Lions arch and Divinity's Reach. I wanted to avoid that pack. You need to play GW2 kinda like you would play Skyrim. But,you might not like playing those type of games though. There is nothing wrong with that:)

I didnt level in two days, spent two days @ max level before deciding not for me, the levelling process was about two weeks

TheDoc

Big Knox wrote: »

GW2 is as much as an MMO as WoW is. As are Eve, Darkfall and the way Ultima was. For the most part none of them have much in common with WoW's take on the genre or vice versa but they are all MMO's and none more so than the others.

I didnt say it wasn't an MMO, only when querying the listed statements.

WoW was a great game. Vanilla was new and fun with a fantastic end game with constant content updates. It was very casual and it attracted a massive playerbase due to the nature of the game and the hype at the time. But WoW has not been a great game for a number of years now. Four expansions and it hasn't changed very much at all. Raise the level cap, introduce a new area and release more content; rinse and repeat. They also never got any part of the PvP right.

Seriously debatable that probably need a bit more in terms of why its no longer a success. Your definition for an expansion, is that, an expansion...what is Guild wars going to do different? Expansions bring what you say above and a couple of new features. It doesnt mean its ****, its building on a succesfull platform.

Agreed about PVP, its **** and I hate it.

WoW is the daddy for dungeon raiding PvE no doubt but it's success killed the genre (bit of a paradox) as nearly every MMO since has tried to copy it which was never going to work.

WoW isnt to blame for people wanting to carbon copy their success and is a poor excuse for poor game developers and publishers.

It has alot of problems and it hasn't done anything innovative in years but it was and will always be King of endgame raiding.

Disagree, has brought in alot of innovation. The likes of LookingForRaid, Dungeon Finder and Cross Realm interaction and grouping completely redefines the scope and definition of " im on X server" , and provides a new standard for casual players.

WoW also pretty much set the standard for MS reactions from player input, yet to be matched imo by any other MMO.

Games trying to emulate this were always going to fail.

Problem is developers are not identifying the correct aspects of what makes wow succesfull, and its succesfull features.

Personally I got bored of WoW right after TBC but stuck with it like most others. It was a terrible expansion which brought nothing new of worth and actually managed to mess up the work that had done up to that point regarding balance and gear progression. Something they haven't got right since!

Not sure on this one, bit of a selective memory, TBC was pretty much bring the class over the player, a trend that changed in Wotlk, and chagned in CAta and now is firmly based of bringing the player not the class.

I applaud GW2 for its take on things. It may not be perfect but it's a damn fine game and done what it set out to do very well. Criticising it because it lacks "PvE endgame" is a result of this belief that the WoW model is the MMO model and anything else is doing it wrong.

I've stated numerous times on the thread the positives on Gw2 and that its lovely and all that good jazz. But as I said previously, its a game that alot of us didnt follow / care about, picked it up, found no PvE and said " lol, ok no more of that"

Which is a perfectly reasonable destination to arrive at. I've plenty of issues with the games main focus, being PvP, but I realise I just dont like pvp in mmos, never have, never will, so just dropped there.

But as I always say, endgame makes or breaks an MMO. And GW2 while having some good aspects is, as usual, for every MMO, and their flawed designers, lacking endgame content.

Running the same PvP segements over and over, with little or no reward, is simply going to burn people out I'm afraid. And at the end of the day I'm not looking to change peoples minds, im just giving my thoughts on the game. But its no suprise that GW2 went from the highest viewed streaming game for two weeks to at present barely breaking 100 concurrent viewers. Of course people went to WoW again, but then this drop happened before WoWs release : /

uncle_sam_ie

TheDoc wrote: »

I didnt level in two days, spent two days @ max level before deciding not for me, the levelling process was about two weeks

Oh OK, sorry. How did you level? Did you go from one heart wait for it to go sold getting the EX, Karma then move on to the next heart. Once the hearts were done moving into the next zone. And did you complete all the vista's and points of interest in each zone?

Playboy

GW2 imo is aimed at a casual gamer. The hardcore players who like to rush to max level and get the best gear so they can wtf pwn everything in sight are not going to like it. As someone who waved goodbye to hardcore gaming a few years ago I find GW2 a joy. I dont feel like I'm missing out and going to be at a disadvantage and left behind because I take my time leveling. I can jump on for a few hours and enjoy the content without worrying about my level.

I like PvP so having it as an endgame sounds great. It is difficult to balance PvP though in terms of reward. If you give the most active and best players extra abilities or superior gear then they will soon become unbeatable by any kind of casual players or casual grps. They only way to counteract this will be through zerging. See DAoC as an example. If however you manage to keep abilities and gear static then you will likely encourage people to play in optimised grps to win rather than zerg because they will have a fighting chance. However PvP without reward or goals can become tedious...

They need to figure out a way for people to feel a sense of achievement through PvP without unbalancing it. That is not an easy task ... maybe they can provide access to abilities that provide extra utility but only at the expense of current abilities. They could provide PvP slot skills that you achieve through PvP points gained by killing enemy players etc. These slot skills could be no more powerful than current skills but just provide some extra choice in play style. Titles or Armour skins are the other options of which they have kind of implemented. PvP will settle down and move away from zerg to structured and organised pvp in time when guilds become established and more players reach max level. Early days PvP is always going to be zerg but i think they have taken the correct path to ensure that it doesnt remain a zerg.

ShaneScouse

No offense TheDoc, you do have some good points and you get them across well, but It realllllllly just seems like your a wow fanboy, you love the game and your just to damn used to it. Nothing wrong with that but if you compare every single thing in 1 game to a 2nd game as if its the basis for its success then you've already lost an arguement imo.

Gw2 isnt trying to kill or replace wow, It never looked like a game that would have hours of pve dungeons every night for you to do a treadmill on, It was never going to have raids and it was clear from the earliest betas that WvW was the main lump of endgame. And wow is far from a perfect game, I played it and I see how people get addicted to it, it has so much content and grind, but very little of it fun.

If you dont like PVP in mmos, why did you even buy gw2? and as has been said 100 times they werent even going to have levels, but they changed it not long before launch due to them not wanting to 'alienate' alot of the mmo playerbase. People are creatures of habits. GW2 is more about the enjoyment on your way to 80, You seem so caught up with whats at 80/endgame and you cant seem to realise thats not what the game is, its not a race to endgame its a game where everything is already open to you at lvl 10 or lvl 54, Just because the game is not what you wanted or expected theres no need to call it crap or rage :P

Kiith

TheDoc only bought it so he could point out how wrong Dcully and me are again :P

Completionist

Canis Lupus wrote: »

You can't just say here's a game now have 'fun'. That's a ridiculous premise especially if the ideas in the game are flawed or there's no content to have 'fun' with. GW2 is frankly, a bit crap. I'm not saying there's no potential but right now it's dull.

Ehm? Yes I can.

I can say "Here is a game, Now either have fun playing or don't." Just because you did not enjoy the game does not make it flawed, Or crap. It is obvious that the game is not for you.

I had fun playing Gw2, I got over 200 hours out of it which is something very few games manage. Yea, I am finished with it for now but so what? It isn't subscription based and I never expected to play it for much longer.

Kiith wrote: »

I agree that you can't just say "Have fun with...", and have the game be fun. You have to enjoy doing some of those things for it to be fun.
I don't agree that it's a bit crap though. You don't like it, fair enough. But to say it's crap is hugely unfair.

The way you worded that makes it sound as if you are somehow being forced to play. if you don't enjoy the things I listed then you obviously should not be playing:P

TheDoc wrote: »

...

WoW is held is such high regard because it is WoW. It is the perfect example of an MMO. AN tried to be different while making Gw2 and attempted things WoW has not because there is already a WoW.

Would you rather if it was exactly like WoW endgame wise? Why? You already have WoW.

If you want end game raiding and gear treadmills, You play WoW. If you want exploration and pvp you have GW2. Why must a game have to beat WoW? People need to stop picking sides and bashing the opponents(As they see) as the games are completely different.

From your posts I can see that Gw2 was obviously not for you. You were looking for a WoW and played Gw2 with the expectation that it would be similar. As I said above, If you did not find the things I listed to be fun then obviously Gw2 is not for you.

TheDoc

Kiith wrote: »

TheDoc only bought it so he could point out how wrong Dcully and me are again :P

HAHAHAAH

In fairness I bought it under the incorrect information, I wasn't aware it was fully PVP, or I would have avoided as I dislike that part of MMO's ( but kinda appreciate the people that like it). I simply was mislead abit by the trailers and gameplay demos I was seeing, it looked really PvE focused


I'm not a fanboi, of course Ive played WoW since closed Alpha, that's nearly 9 years, with no breaks, so yes, while its a game I adore and have put so much time and effort into, I'm not blind to some of its faults that arise during various stages of an expansion or raiding content.

Also I havnt called the game crap, I've been fine with it, I enjoyed the levelling, bored at endgame, put aside, dont confuse me with the other guy here whose calling it crap etc.

I only got specific in pointing out some flaws, as much as you hate the "Wowfanboism" I dislike how WoW is labelled with the downfall of the genre as if its Blizzards fault, and how WoW is nowadays nonchalantly cased aside as " meh" when its still #1

And in no point did I base the two games together on every point, however there are some literally BASIC fundamentals required in 2012 for a successful MMO.

Now Guild Wars is obviously going to slide a bit sideways to the comparison because its PvP focused, BUT, at the same time, its the age old saying, endgame content makes or breaks an MMO.

TheDoc

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

Oh OK, sorry. How did you level? Did you go from one heart wait for it to go sold getting the EX, Karma then move on to the next heart. Once the hearts were done moving into the next zone. And did you complete all the vista's and points of interest in each zone?

I went from heart to heart, did events when they appeared and got 100% completion before moving onto the next zone

TheDoc

Completionist wrote: »

Ehm? Yes I can.

I can say "Here is a game, Now either have fun playing or don't." Just because you did not enjoy the game does not make it flawed, Or crap. It is obvious that the game is not for you.

I had fun playing Gw2, I got over 200 hours out of it which is something very few games manage. Yea, I am finished with it for now but so what? It isn't subscription based and I never expected to play it for much longer.



The way you worded that makes it sound as if you are somehow being forced to play. if you don't enjoy the things I listed then you obviously should not be playing:P



WoW is held is such high regard because it is WoW. It is the perfect example of an MMO. AN tried to be different while making Gw2 and attempted things WoW has not because there is already a WoW.

Would you rather if it was exactly like WoW endgame wise? Why? You already have WoW.

If you want end game raiding and gear treadmills, You play WoW. If you want exploration and pvp you have GW2. Why must a game have to beat WoW? People need to stop picking sides and bashing the opponents(As they see) as the games are completely different.

From your posts I can see that Gw2 was obviously not for you. You were looking for a WoW and played Gw2 with the expectation that it would be similar. As I said above, If you did not find the things I listed to be fun then obviously Gw2 is not for you.

I dont get this" not for you" or people making out I'm bashing that game,

I've played just about every major MMO release SINCE WoW, including some not so mainstream ones.

MMO's are my favourite genre, its not the "games werent for me" its that they were **** or had NO endgame content to keep me entertained.

If I'm too be blunt, I'd call GuildWars **** and not recommend it to friends.

Why? Because the game is solely based on PvP.

But I dont call the game ****, and I havnt. I appreciate there is some really good stuff in there, and some really good ideas. But even for the most hardcore PvPer, there isnt alot here to keep you playing for lets say, 6 months, which is ****ing nothing in terms of an MMO.

Im not going into the indepth issues with Guild Wars endgame (which is only pvp) but its extremely flawed on many levels, and even for some ahrdcore pvp players, I dont see what can keep you playing past a month at endgame, I really don't.

As you said yourself, if I wanted WoW, I'd play WoW...and I do, and always will. But im always looking for the next good MMO aswell and you name it, I've played it and most likely, will have a list of bad things to say about it.

No one is looking for a WoW clone, we are looking for a good MMO.

It just so happens, some of the absolute basic principles of a modern MMO, contains alot of BASIC stuff, that is in WoW.


Example of the cuff ?

Swtor are NOW at a point where they have plentiful content that you wont blitz through in a night, and they only last patch brought in dungeon finder, raid finder and a system to help level alts faster.

At a time when their numbers are below a million, because everyone ****ed off when they say **** all endgame, and no way to automatically get into dungeons except for barking in trade..which is stupid nowadays