IFA

foxshooter243

ayapatrick wrote: »

afaik you could have had just one gun for €6. know a couple of guys that have! id say probably just for farmers though. and only 25 cartridge limit on it.

The 6 euro licence or vermin licence was just that, it allowed farmers and any one else to shoot vermin only-or clays only!-but you couldnt take game with it. The shotgun licence which cost 25 euro was an additional charge for a hunting licence which was incorporated with the gun licence.
Thats the way I always understood it anyways..

ayapatrick

foxshooter243 wrote: »

The 6 euro licence or vermin licence was just that, it allowed farmers and any one else to shoot vermin only-or clays only!-but you couldnt take game with it. The shotgun licence which cost 25 euro was an additional charge for a hunting licence which was incorporated with the gun licence.
Thats the way I always understood it anyways..

thats my understanding aswel!
just tonysoprano said that when he had the €6 license that he had at least 1 other gun at €25.
i was pointing out that ya didnt need a game hunting license to have a six euro vermin one.:)

deerhunter1

foxshooter243 wrote: »

The 6 euro licence or vermin licence was just that, it allowed farmers and any one else to shoot vermin only-or clays only!-but you couldnt take game with it. The shotgun licence which cost 25 euro was an additional charge for a hunting licence which was incorporated with the gun licence.
Thats the way I always understood it anyways..

correct

cavan shooter

At the Game fair yesterday there were IFA signs all over the place calling for this to be done and that to be done in relation to the the new licences.

The whole thing makes the IFA look as if they were asleep and to be honest it makes them look inept.
CS is goin on a rant so you may want to stop reading

The restructuring of the whole firearms licencing and fee structures has been on the cards at least 2 years, the NARGC had representitives on the FCP, and the FCP issued a report (cant think of the title ) which outlined the issues, the FCP and the NARGC through readers digest aswell as (NARGC magazine Gameshot, the website and regional meetings well and thoroughly advertised the changes and what people where doing to try "negotiate" the so called fee structure, if I remember €99 Euro was being muted as the cost for a 3 year licence, it is down to €80.

When you look at all this and now the IFA are up in arms it seems they missed the boat, I never once saw an article in the Farmers ournal.

As for the security arrangements about time they made it compulsory. What has been suggested is more than reasonable.

1 shotgun break it down (as if thats gonna happen) The cabinet should be compulsory (no licence no cabinet).

I am sick of the monty python "what has the NARGC or FCP or/??? done for us" that i keep listening too. Most of the ones whinging never attend meetings and dont get involved

rant over

rrpc

Just to add that the IFA had a rep on the FCP (the same guy who was interviewed on the radio) and as far as I know had a stand in going to many of the FCP meetings.

The only reason they're making all this noise is because their members are going mad, not having been informed of the changes in the system. If you recall the report issued by the shooting bodies on the FCP in March 2008, the IFA took part in that and yet seem to have forgotten about it.

It's an absolute joke the way they're now suddenly making a lot of noise. IFA members should know that these guys were asleep at the wheel.

Grizzly 45

This weeks Farmers Journal headline
"No EU grant available to fill in Firearms liscense form.":D:rolleyes:

PJ Hunter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

This weeks Farmers Journal headline
"No EU grant available to fill in Firearms liscense form.":D:rolleyes:

no grizzly,the ifa want the license form scrapped:eek:

IFA Countryside were at no point, during the firearms consultative panels meetings, informed that red tape of this degree was going to be introduced.”

did the fcp meetings talk about the license red tape.

kakashka

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

This weeks Farmers Journal headline
"No EU grant available to fill in Firearms liscense form.":D:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45
I detect a general dislike of farmers from you :eek:
Are they really so bad in your area?
Or was it a traumatic experience at some stage,talk to us,we can help:D:D:D

kakashka

rrpc wrote: »

Just to add that the IFA had a rep on the FCP (the same guy who was interviewed on the radio) and as far as I know had a stand in going to many of the FCP meetings.

The only reason they're making all this noise is because their members are going mad, not having been informed of the changes in the system. If you recall the report issued by the shooting bodies on the FCP in March 2008, the IFA did not take part in that nor did they issue their own report.

It's an absolute joke the way they're now suddenly making a lot of noise. IFA members should know that these guys were asleep at the wheel.

100% Agree and if it was the same chap interviewed who represented IFA on FCP then i'm not at all surprised that it's turned into a circus performance now.

Grizzly 45

kakashka wrote: »

Grizzly 45
I detect a general dislike of farmers from you :eek:
Are they really so bad in your area?
Or was it a traumatic experience at some stage,talk to us,we can help:D:D:D

Must be Kakash.:eek:
Born and bred ,grew up on a farm,worked on them, have a degree in agriculture.And the God given common sense to run may miles away from becoming one. :eek::DWhat bugs me about it is the money grubbing,and "demands" off the EU for money for any possible thing going.No other "industry" is more heavily subisidised in Ireland than farming.
A logical position of running a busisness,is if it doesnt make money,quit doing it! Not to mind the shoddiness and"ah shure twill do" attitude to fulfilling their side of the bargin.Or in this case.."But we are Farmers be dad!Shure laws dont apply to us!" attitude to everything from H&S to water pollution togun liscensing.

PJ Hunter

Shure laws dont apply to us!" attitude to everything from H&S to water pollution togun liscensing.

shure,shure. cast the first stone but how many shotguns licensed here:D

Sikamick

Quote from someone earlier today : But of course if it's the IFA complaining the media sit up and listen.

---

I would think they should, remember they (IFA) represent their members that give land permission to most Gun Clubs/Game Shooters and Ranges/Clay Pigeon Clubs and they represent the Farmers in Brussels. How many farmers hold firearms licenses?.

Question: When the FCP had their meetings was a copy of the FCA1 form produced, if so then all would have seen what was coming, if it was not produced then no one is to blame.

Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

Question: When the FCP had their meetings was a copy of the FCA1 form produced, if so then all would have seen what was coming, if it was not produced then no one is to blame.

Sikamick

If it was just the form the IFA were complaining about. :rolleyes:

Sikamick

rrpc wrote: »

If it was just the form the IFA were complaining about. :rolleyes:

_____________________________________________________________

What comes to mind is the plank and splinter story, look into one's own eye, casting stones.

So much for trying to bring the people in the sport together, it seems there is a lot of glory hunting going on here (what we did or did not do):mad::rolleyes:

Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

What comes to mind is the plank and splinter story, look into one's own eye, casting stones.

So much for trying to bring the people in the sport together, it seems there is a lot of glory hunting going on here (what we did or did not do):mad::rolleyes:

Sikamick

What comes to mind is the story of the boy who cried wolf. Did you actually listen to the interview on Radio 1 Mick?

Most of the complaints related to requirements under the 2006 CJA. These have been published since 2004 and have been discussed widely on here and at the FCP since they became law. They have also been very widely reported in the media (look at the press clippings thread). But the real irony is the guy who's making all the noise was the IFA's rep on the FCP and he sent a stand in to the meetings.

And this is not about glory hunting. It's about people making so much noise about stuff that they should have been paying attention to (and who had ample opportunity) that they're drowning out the more relevant and timely inputs of people who are actually on the ball.

And it's more than a bit rich looking for solidarity with the IFA, who stayed silent during the furore over the increase in license fees because their members weren't being hit as hard.

And this is not about the farmers, so stop creating straw men. It's about the IFA. Or is it just about taking a contrary view to me?

PJ Hunter

What bugs me about it is the money grubbing,and "demands" off the EU for money for any possible thing going.No other "industry" is more heavily subisidised in Ireland than farming.
A logical position of running a busisness,is if it doesnt make money,quit doing it! Not to mind the shoddiness and"ah shure twill do" attitude to fulfilling their side of the bargin.Or in this case.."But we are Farmers be dad!Shure laws dont apply to us!" attitude to everything from H&S to water pollution togun liscensing.

and this is not about the farmers is it:rolleyes:

rrpc

PJ Hunter wrote: »

and this is not about the farmers is it:rolleyes:

Well for me it's not, that quote's not mine, so don't be implying that it is please. Lot of friends are farmers and would share my views on the IFA. In fact it's where I get some of them

Sikamick

rrpc I have listened to the interview and yes it may have not been the strongest performance but the interviewee was not given the chance to cover all of the problems that he see's with the firearms application form. The format of the interview did not allow enough time for him to develop his arguments.

One spoke does not make a wheel just as one spokes person does note make an organisation.


Please refer to the copy of the IFA Countryside press release by Chairman Mr. David Wilkinson posted in this thread by PJHunter. What is relevant is what is happening now, not what happened at FCP meetings in the past, as far as I have been told a draft copy FCA1 application form in its present format was never put before the Sporting Bodies Reps for finalisation.

But there was a copy used for courses by an un-elected member of the FCP days before the Garda had it on their website. Is this again about who you know and not what you know.

Were there other reps from the shooting sports at the FCP meetings and did all of them defend their members rights to the full or did the have to give a little to get a little.

Other people from the sporting bodies have done interviews and have been castigated for not being strong enough in representing the sport, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Who was the bright spark that came up with individuals cant import firearms or ammunition and must now go through a firearms dealer, was it the DOJ alone or were they given the idea by vested interest who may have put this in as a submission. Was this and the FCA1 form ever discussed at the meetings and if so were these items agreed on.

Why are people finger pointing at an organisation that is now trying to do something about the FCA1 form, they could not have done anything about it until they had seen it and if they got to see it so did the other NGB'S, my opinion only.

When are people in our sport going to come together, when are we going to stop the finger pointing and backstabbing.


Sikamick

Grizzly 45

PJ Hunter wrote: »

and this is not about the farmers is it:rolleyes:

If you are going to quote somone ..Have the decency to quote the whole post,not cherrypick what suits.:mad:
If the shoe fits....As I said,I am speaking as a ex, been there ,seem it ,done it,bought the T shirt,muck on the wellies,farmboy.

The IFA and it's attitude that they,and farmers. are owed some extra special position in Irish and EU society is one major reason I would want nothing to do with farming as a career.

Sika,I think the problem is now ,is getting all huffed about somthing when it is law comes under the "too late to matter" category of things.
IFthis rep of the IFA was on the ball on the FCP,wouldnt he have known that his members of his organisation would go ape about somthing like this?They go crazy over every other bit of extra paperwork that comes in the door!
IF the IFA had kicked then,you can be sure there would be a very different law on the books now.BUT it seems the IFA rep wasnt even there ,but sending underlings in to the meeting.
That kind of puts it then in perspective of importance this was to the IFA.Somwhere down in the "what color of wellies will be in fashion at the ploughing championships",category of things.

As you said and I am sure it did happen,deals were being cut in the meetings,before,during and after.BUT the thing is;things were being done there.Not after the fact,when it is too late.
Think we should be asking ourselves a couple of things.
WHY is it that as a race,when we have the opportunity to influence things
that affect us,we stay sthumm,and after it is law ,when it is twice as hard to change,we are up in arms and filling the airwaves about it?
Why,as you said do we not attempt to sing of the same sheet,without trying to cut each other up by getting a mefein better deal to the detriment of others??

PJ Hunter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If you are going to quote somone ..Have the decency to quote the whole post,not cherrypick what suits.:mad:
If the shoe fits....As I said,I am speaking as a ex, been there ,seem it ,done it,bought the T shirt,muck on the wellies,farmboy.

The IFA and it's attitude that they,and farmers. are owed some extra special position in Irish and EU society is one major reason I would want nothing to do with farming as a career.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Must be Kakash.:eek:
Born and bred ,grew up on a farm,worked on them, have a degree in agriculture.And the God given common sense to run may miles away from becoming one. :eek::DWhat bugs me about it is the money grubbing,and "demands" off the EU for money for any possible thing going.No other "industry" is more heavily subisidised in Ireland than farming.
A logical position of running a busisness,is if it doesnt make money,quit doing it! Not to mind the shoddiness and"ah shure twill do" attitude to fulfilling their side of the bargin.Or in this case.."But we are Farmers be dad!Shure laws dont apply to us!" attitude to everything from H&S to water pollution togun liscensing.

grizzlys quote. moved to the agriculture forum if theirs one.

nothing to do with shooting is it:mad: back on topic;)

rrpc I have listened to the interview and yes it may have not been the strongest performance but the interviewee was not given the chance to cover all of the problems that he see's with the firearms application form. The format of the interview did not allow enough time for him to develop his arguments.

One spoke does not make a wheel just as one spokes person does note make an organisation.


Please refer to the copy of the IFA Countryside press release by Chairman Mr. David Wilkinson posted in this thread by PJHunter. What is relevant is what is happening now, not what happened at FCP meetings in the past, as far as I have been told a draft copy FCA1 application form in its present format was never put before the Sporting Bodies Reps for finalisation.

But there was a copy used for courses by an un-elected member of the FCP days before the Garda had it on their website. Is this again about who you know and not what you know.

Were there other reps from the shooting sports at the FCP meetings and did all of them defend their members rights to the full or did the have to give a little to get a little.

Other people from the sporting bodies have done interviews and have been castigated for not being strong enough in representing the sport, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Who was the bright spark that came up with individuals cant import firearms or ammunition and must now go through a firearms dealer, was it the DOJ alone or were they given the idea by vested interest who may have put this in as a submission. Was this and the FCA1 form ever discussed at the meetings and if so were these items agreed on.

Why are people finger pointing at an organisation that is now trying to do something about the FCA1 form, they could not have done anything about it until they had seen it and if they got to see it so did the other NGB'S, my opinion only.

When are people in our sport going to come together, when are we going to stop the finger pointing and backstabbing.


Sikamick

Sikamick

NEW FIREARMS LICENSING UNWORKABLE AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE
IFA Countryside Chairman David Wilkinson today called on the Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern to rethink the newly introduced licensing system for firearms. Under the new legislation all gun owners are required to invest a huge amount of time satisfying complex and confusing red tape requirements.

Mr Wilkinson said, ‘this new system is a logistical nightmare which does not recognise the outstanding record of those who have legally held firearms in this country in the past. IFA Countryside has been inundated with complaints from worried members who are seriously considering abandoning the sport altogether.’

He concluded, ‘the licensing system should aim to keep firearms out of the hands of undesirables while making it user friendly for those who use them legally. IFA Countryside were at no point, during the firearms consultative panels meetings, informed that red tape of this degree was going to be introduced.”


ifa president padraig walsh to be at the game fair. many farmer think the extention was them renewed for the year, not just farmers up in arms, the fo asked whats on the restricted list and the 34 advice pages 9 page form and certs all about. dont ask me.


___________
Sikamick

Grizzly 45

OHHH stepped on some toes there did I PJ???????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Seeing that you wanted to quote me and now want to move the posts??? Plenty to do with shooting,and not with "farmer bashing" as you would like to imply.

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

rrpc I have listened to the interview and yes it may have not been the strongest performance but the interviewee was not given the chance to cover all of the problems that he see's with the firearms application form. The format of the interview did not allow enough time for him to develop his arguments.

One spoke does not make a wheel just as one spokes person does note make an organisation.

Except that this particular spoke was the one who had the most access to the information long before it became public knowledge and was best placed to do something about it if he wasn't happy about it.

Sikamick wrote:

Please refer to the copy of the IFA Countryside press release by Chairman Mr. David Wilkinson posted in this thread by PJHunter.

I have and it's woefully short and so late as to be locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. Where was Mr. Wilkinson last November?, in fact where was he last September when law abiding firearms owners were being equated with criminals? Why didn't he say stuff like this then?:

"this new system is a logistical nightmare which does not recognise the outstanding record of those who have legally held firearms in this country in the past...", "...the licensing system should aim to keep firearms out of the hands of undesirables while making it user friendly for those who use them legally"

Sikamick wrote:

What is relevant is what is happening now, not what happened at FCP meetings in the past, as far as I have been told a draft copy FCA1 application form in its present format was never put before the Sporting Bodies Reps for finalisation.

No it wasn't, but the requirements that would have to be met by the licensing system were well in place long before a form was ever produced. There was a subcommittee of the FCP that dealt with licensing issues including all the areas that are now on the form and the IFA rep was on that subcommittee.

Sikamick wrote:

But there was a copy used for courses by an un-elected member of the FCP days before the Garda had it on their website. Is this again about who you know and not what you know.

I don't know anything about this, I'm not a member of the NARGC, but AFAIK, the form was a very late arrival and never made an FCP meeting.

Sikamick wrote:

Were there other reps from the shooting sports at the FCP meetings and did all of them defend their members rights to the full or did the have to give a little to get a little.

You really still don't understand what the FCP is about. It's a consultative committee, not a negotiating committee. What I'm castigating the IFA member about is that he's complaining about this stuff as if it's the first time he's heard of it. It's not, plain and simple.

Sikamick wrote:

Who was the bright spark that came up with individuals cant import firearms or ammunition and must now go through a firearms dealer, was it the DOJ alone or were they given the idea by vested interest who may have put this in as a submission. Was this and the FCA1 form ever discussed at the meetings and if so were these items agreed on.

The ban on personal imports came from the Minister AFAIK. It's also likely that it will just be a ban on 'distance' purchases (i.e. on the internet). People who think there's some sort of 'vested interest' involved need to think about this. Most people in this country buy their firearms in a shop. Those who import are in the minority and the upsurge was due entirely to the fact that the DoJ would not give import licences for pistols to dealers. So banning personal imports would stop pistols being imported completely, dealers were never going to benefit.

Sikamick wrote:

Why are people finger pointing at an organisation that is now trying to do something about the FCA1 form, they could not have done anything about it until they had seen it and if they got to see it so did the other NGB'S, my opinion only.

When are people in our sport going to come together, when are we going to stop the finger pointing and backstabbing.

I'm being open about my criticism, I've given good reasons for that criticism and I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are. And for the record, instead of complaining about the form, I've written a couple of guides to it and also advised the Garda FPU on its shortcomings.

But your post is full of snide attacks and finger pointing at the NARGC, and the other FCP members, so why don't you take your own advice Mick?

I haven't got all shouty about stuff I should have known about, to divert attention away from the fact that I didn't open my mouth when I should have.

kakashka

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Must be Kakash.:eek:
Born and bred ,grew up on a farm,worked on them, have a degree in agriculture.And the God given common sense to run may miles away from becoming one. :eek::DWhat bugs me about it is the money grubbing,and "demands" off the EU for money for any possible thing going.No other "industry" is more heavily subisidised in Ireland than farming.
A logical position of running a busisness,is if it doesnt make money,quit doing it! Not to mind the shoddiness and"ah shure twill do" attitude to fulfilling their side of the bargin.Or in this case.."But we are Farmers be dad!Shure laws dont apply to us!" attitude to everything from H&S to water pollution togun liscensing.

Must be DER'MO SOBACH'E Grizzly if i'm catching you right:eek:;).
A quick comment as i'm tight on time but
Demands off the EU are well founded IMO given the absolute shafting the countrys fishing industry has recieved since membership

No other Industry puts so much back into the economy either

Farming is actually a Severly regulated industry at present
Pollution is no longer an issue,especially compared to local Gov bodies
You had the god given common sense to keep away from Farming but does that not translate to lack of interest in and luck to have an education to be able to run?
Maby the odd wealthy Farmer but mostly barely getting along,and not just recently but always,working all hours/conditions for feck all.

Grizzly 45

[quote=kakashka;61781606

]Must be DER'MO SOBACH'E Grizzly if i'm catching you right:eek:;).

In plain English????:) Nyet Russki

Demands off the EU are well founded IMO given the absolute shafting the countrys fishing industry has recieved since membership

I see,,so because a totally different industry gets done.That entitles another to demand money off the EU??? Great ,if the Aran jumper makers of Ireland get cut to bits by cheap imported products,Will the IFA demand money off Brussles for them???

No other Industry puts so much back into the economy either

But has the worst PR,and the worst image.Never seen this kind of begrudgery to farmers anywhere else in the World bar here in Ireland.
So there must be somthing more than the std Irish begrudgery too in it.
Also,it is the most heavily subsidised,[or was,thats going East now].So it is now time to stand on the two feet and be able to produce as good as the rest of the EU at EU prices.

Farming is actually a Severly regulated industry at present

As is every other industry in the EU from Security to Farming to making knitting needles...
Every industry is heavily regulated in the EU.What makes the Irish farming industry the exception to the rule,or more sympathy????

Pollution is no longer an issue,especially compared to local Gov bodies

Righttttt....No more silage runoffs or slurry run offs into local drinking water then??Over use of nitrates doing in the ground water?

You had the god given common sense to keep away from Farming but does that not translate to lack of interest in and luck to have an education to be able to run?

No,more common sense to see that there is more to life than dedicating it to the demands of a 150 herd of dairy cattle,the whims of markets and weather,not to mind banks,beuracrats and general misery.Ag college is a great eye opener into the industry,[was at the time another grant spinner,]not to mind living it,having the running of a farm dumped on you when you are 18while you are trying to do the leaving as well.
The school of life and very hard knocks a much better education.So please dont try this old chestnut of lack of intrest,laziness ,etc etc,heard it all before. Yes it is a christless ,thankless occupation,if you are below a certain land and income threshold.But that is no excuse to spend your entire life in misery either,bewailing the fact to all and sundry and expecting sympathy..

Maby the odd wealthy Farmer but mostly barely getting along,and not just recently but always,working all hours/conditions for feck all.

Of course there is that,been there done it,and why I quit it.

Anyway,this is more OT.We are moaning about the IFA not paying attention on the FCP,[proably because as I said,there was no way of making money or getting grants out of it:rolleyes:] not the Irish farmer.

Sikamick

rrpc wrote: »

Except that this particular spoke was the one who had the most access to the information long before it became public knowledge and was best placed to do something about it if he wasn't happy about it. Are you saying that the IFA had access to information that the other NGB'S did'nt.

I have and it's woefully short and so late as to be locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. Where was Mr. Wilkinson last November?, in fact where was he last September when law abiding firearms owners were being equated with criminals? Why didn't he say stuff like this then?: I am sure you are probably right, but he was not the only one there.

No it wasn't, but the requirements that would have to be met by the licensing system were well in place long before a form was ever produced. There was a subcommittee of the FCP that dealt with licensing issues including all the areas that are now on the form and the IFA rep was on that subcommittee.Who else sat on this sub committee and what did they do about it, are you shouting about them.

I don't know anything about this, I'm not a member of the NARGC, but AFAIK, the form was a very late arrival and never made an FCP meeting.Please show me where I mentioned NARGC, I have the height of respect for NARGC and its leadership, I am a member and have been for over twenty years and think it underhanded of you to use the name of an organisation that I did not mention, re the un-elected person on the FCP he is not belong to NARGC, try guessing again and you will eventually get the name.

You really still don't understand what the FCP is about. It's a consultative committee, not a negotiating committee. What I'm castigating the IFA member about is that he's complaining about this stuff as if it's the first time he's heard of it. It's not, plain and simple.And did other people hear it and what have they done

The ban on personal imports came from the Minister AFAIK. It's also likely that it will just be a ban on 'distance' purchases (i.e. on the internet). People who think there's some sort of 'vested interest' involved need to think about this. Most people in this country buy their firearms in a shop. Those who import are in the minority and the upsurge was due entirely to the fact that the DoJ would not give import licences for pistols to dealers. So banning personal imports would stop pistols being imported completely, dealers were never going to benefit.They did on the sale of the pistols and will on the export of the them if they are involved this area.

I'm being open about my criticism, I've given good reasons for that criticism and I'm just as entitled to my opinion as you are. And for the record, instead of complaining about the form, I've written a couple of guides to it and also advised the Garda FPU on its shortcomings.So now you are the new adviser to the FPU do you have a Flag:rolleyes:

But your post is full of snide attacks and finger pointing at the NARGC, and the other FCP members, so why don't you take your own advice Mick?Again you surmise that I am speaking about NARGC, wrong again I never mentioned them.

I haven't got all shouty about stuff I should have known about, to divert attention away from the fact that I didn't open my mouth when I should have.

Well maybe you should have and you could have advised us all of what was going on:rolleyes:.

Lets get to the crunch when are you and others going together and bring our sport leadership.

Sikamick

DMZ

Sikamick wrote: »

rrpc I have listened to the interview and yes it may have not been the strongest performance but the interviewee was not given the chance to cover all of the problems that he see's with the firearms application form. The format of the interview did not allow enough time for him to develop his arguments.

One spoke does not make a wheel just as one spokes person does note make an organisation.


Please refer to the copy of the IFA Countryside press release by Chairman Mr. David Wilkinson posted in this thread by PJHunter. What is relevant is what is happening now, not what happened at FCP meetings in the past, as far as I have been told a draft copy FCA1 application form in its present format was never put before the Sporting Bodies Reps for finalisation.

But there was a copy used for courses by an un-elected member of the FCP days before the Garda had it on their website. Is this again about who you know and not what you know.

Were there other reps from the shooting sports at the FCP meetings and did all of them defend their members rights to the full or did the have to give a little to get a little.

Other people from the sporting bodies have done interviews and have been castigated for not being strong enough in representing the sport, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Who was the bright spark that came up with individuals cant import firearms or ammunition and must now go through a firearms dealer, was it the DOJ alone or were they given the idea by vested interest who may have put this in as a submission. Was this and the FCA1 form ever discussed at the meetings and if so were these items agreed on.

Why are people finger pointing at an organisation that is now trying to do something about the FCA1 form, they could not have done anything about it until they had seen it and if they got to see it so did the other NGB'S, my opinion only.

When are people in our sport going to come together, when are we going to stop the finger pointing and backstabbing.


Sikamick

Well your the man to talk when it comes to back stabbing, and as to pointing the finger man you got 10 ex 10. In any case I came on to point out that the origins of the current firearms application form has nothing to do with the FCP, one needs to look at the Barr Tribunal report and the recommendations made by Justice Barr with respec to the form of a firearms application and the contents.

If you simply open the last pages of the Barr Tribunal report you will find the current firearms application slight format differences but essentailly the same.

The information required on the application form did not come out of the CJA 2006 or 2009, some aspects did but substantially the Barr Tribunal findings have driven the current form, stop casting accusations at the FCP, they really had no influence over the current state of things related to firearms licensing save for the input from the Olympic target shooters, they had a profound effect.

rrpc

Mick, you should spend a bit of time learning how to quote. This red print is a pain in the ass to try and quote back.

Are you saying that the IFA had access to information that the other NGB'S did'nt.

No, read what I said again. And read it in the context of your comment.

Who else sat on this sub committee and what did they do about it, are you shouting about them.

No. I'm not and if you read what I'd said instead of actually just having a go at me you'd realise that I'm castigating the IFA for being asleep at the wheel and not advising their members of what was coming the way everyone else did. They even signed off on the brief to the shooting associations in March 2008, but did they actually send it to their members?

Please show me where I mentioned NARGC, I have the height of respect for NARGC and its leadership, I am a member and have been for over twenty years and think it underhanded of you to use the name of an organisation that I did not mention,

The only course that I know of that was given on the new form and the guidelines was by the NARGC and there's a thread on it here. That's what I believe you were referring to.

. re the un-elected person on the FCP he is not belong to NARGC, try guessing again and you will eventually get the name.

Nobody is 'elected' to the FCP, all were invited by the DoJ. You really need to get your facts straight Mick because you're making a complete mess of things here (that's apart from the red print).

They did on the sale of the pistols and will on the export of the them if they are involved this area.

If, if. That makes it a fact in your book, and enough to damn an entire body of business people as a 'vested interest'

So now you are the new adviser to the FPU do you have a Flag

No Mick, they asked me.

Again you surmise that I am speaking about NARGC, wrong again I never mentioned them.

Check again. I saw no mention of anyone getting the FCA1 form or the guidelines ahead of time other than the NARGC.

Well maybe you should have and you could have advised us all of what was going on

I think if I wrote what was happening in seven foot high letters of fire on the highest mountain, you wouldn't bother reading it. You were at the ranges conference, yet you are still asking questions that were answered there.

Lets get to the crunch when are you and others going together and bring our sport leadership.

Still banging that same old drum of everyone all getting together under one banner (yours presumably) I see.

rrpc

DMZ wrote: »

The information required on the application form did not come out of the CJA 2006 or 2009, some aspects did but substantially the Barr Tribunal findings have driven the current form, stop casting accusations at the FCP, they really had no influence over the current state of things related to firearms licensing save for the input from the Olympic target shooters, they had a profound effect.

The most profound effect on the firearms legislation was and always will be from people with big mouths and nothing between their ears

DMZ

Thanks RRPC, Mick or Paddy Enfield he just stirs the s**it all the time........