Irish Open 2010 - Structure

BloodyDeath

pgodkin wrote: »

Noel, please put startin stacks at a 100k this year and 20 min blind levels!!, simple given the fact that people dont understand tournies at all from what i can see!


great work lads will work hard on playin this year

funny as fook

kakak1

pgodkin wrote: »

Noel, please put startin stacks at a 100k this year and 20 min blind levels!!, simple given the fact that people dont understand tournies at all from what i can see!


great work lads will work hard on playin this year

Edit: please everyone stop shouting at PP and Noel hayes they have fck all power to change the IO really, dont forget there only payin for the event its the merrion that owns the rights to the IO

Oh sh1t, my apologies, myself & most here on boards together with EPT & WSOP organisers & most other main event operators don't understand tournaments. PP & Philip know it fcuking all.

So the sponsor has no power so no say in the running of this event............ God I never knew that..................thanks for informing me. I'm starting to feel sorry now for all I said about PPP.

Oh and Philip when are you going back to whatever planet you live on cos you certainly don't live in the real world............. such utter sh1te you talk

mormank

never played the IO and probably never will but fair play for the structure changes. will improve the tournie. and remember guys, Rome wasnt built in a day. sometimes these changes will take longer.

also why do you suppose the starting stacks have gone up in major tournies in the past few years? why not before? poker has been around alot longer than since moneymaker won the main event. players werent complaining about starting stacks years ago..(or maybe they were, i dont know actualy)

corkie123

pgodkin wrote: »

Noel, please put startin stacks at a 100k this year and 20 min blind levels!!, simple given the fact that people dont understand tournies at all from what i can see!


great work lads will work hard on playin this year

Edit: please everyone stop shouting at PP and Noel hayes they have fck all power to change the IO really, dont forget there only payin for the event its the merrion that owns the rights to the IO

own what rights merrion still trading is it ? dont think there any copy right to the irish open ?

could be wrong but i think who ever bankrolls the irish open could call the shots as well

mdwexford

robinblinds wrote: »

The real crux of this issue is that the tournament has been alive since 1981 and therefore it is VERY difficult to change things that have been around and set in stone for a long time.

Please remember that other tournaments can be changed at the drop of a hat...a few hours notice in some cases.

This is an institutional tournament and its very being means it is very hard to change it, even though we all want it to change and improve for the better.

I dont understand how the history of the tournament thing is an issue, surely roll with the times etc and when whoever's in charge looks at the WSOP and EPT tournaments and sees how they are changing their structures for the better they would follow suit no??

I think its close between this structure and the winter festival one as to which is better, think this just shades it though imo.

D.C.C

Noel,
I think it's a huge improvement and refreshing to see that you have got the levels added and time was the only issue at hand...
People who say they would prefer 15k and a 60 min clock just don't understand how to construct a tournament....And the same as always players think they know better.Now i wasn't a big fan of the Irish Open having worked at it and played it,but with these improvements the IO finally has come in line with some of the biggest European tournaments.

Well done Noel and to be honest i don't think you have to come on here and justify something that most poker players can't even understand.

Jayminator

Increased stack would be better but we have all played 10k tourneys for years and delighted to do so. I would prefer the higher starting stack and its obvious that Noel will show this thread to the powers that be so hopefully they too might see the light. I dont think Noel is disagreeing with an increased starting stack.

pgodkin

corkie123 wrote: »

own what rights merrion still trading is it ? dont think there any copy right to the irish open ?

could be wrong but i think who ever bankrolls the irish open could call the shots as well

no, i think it could be the full tilt irish open in 2011, although dont know how long PP has the contract to sponsor the IO

tm2204

This new structure with a 15k starting stack would be a perfect IO ME tournament IMO.

Maybe too much to ask for in 1 year (although I don't really see why) but possibly we might see this structure & a 15k starting stack next year.

The Premier League of Irish tournies should really have a structure to match and not have people complaining about it IMO.

CHD

Any chance of a 2k earlybird

zsoulking

This is ridicules it’s very obvious to anyone who has ever met with Noel that all he wants to do is make the Irish Open the best that it can be.

I remember Noel coming to me in the Sporting Emporium when he was first appointed at Paddy Power. We spoke about the Irish Open and the improvements that he wanted to make.

If Noel had Cart Blanche on the running of the event then I would imagine that the starting stack would be at least 15k and the levels would probably be 90 min.

As things stand Noel is trying his very best to persuade other parties that improvements must be made.

So instead of coming on here ranting and raving about how Paddy Power are a disgrace and that you aren’t being listened to open your eyes and see what the purpose of this thread may actually be.

The person that owns the rights to the Irish Open is the person you should be venting at. So instead of having a pop at Noel go do your homework and find out that person’s name and let them know how you feel.

Well done Noel in getting the improvements for this year’s event.

I know from experience how frustrating it can be, keep up the good work.

John.

D.C.C

zsoulking wrote: »

This is ridicules it’s very obvious to anyone who has ever met with Noel that all he wants to do is make the Irish Open the best that it can be.

I remember Noel coming to me in the Sporting Emporium when he was first appointed at Paddy Power. We spoke about the Irish Open and the improvements that he wanted to make.

If Noel had Cart Blanche on the running of the event then I would imagine that the starting stack would be at least 15k and the levels would probably be 90 min.

As things stand Noel is trying his very best to persuade other parties that improvements must be made.

So instead of coming on here ranting and raving about how Paddy Power are a disgrace and that you aren’t being listened to open your eyes and see what the purpose of this thread may actually be.

The person that owns the rights to the Irish Open is the person you should be venting at. So instead of having a pop at Noel go do your homework and find out that person’s name and let them know how you feel.

Well done Noel in getting the improvements for this year’s event.

I know from experience how frustrating it can be, keep up the good work.

John.

+1

corkie123

zsoulking wrote: »

This is ridicules it’s very obvious to anyone who has ever met with Noel that all he wants to do is make the Irish Open the best that it can be.

I remember Noel coming to me in the Sporting Emporium when he was first appointed at Paddy Power. We spoke about the Irish Open and the improvements that he wanted to make.

If Noel had Cart Blanche on the running of the event then I would imagine that the starting stack would be at least 15k and the levels would probably be 90 min.

As things stand Noel is trying his very best to persuade other parties that improvements must be made.

So instead of coming on here ranting and raving about how Paddy Power are a disgrace and that you aren’t being listened to open your eyes and see what the purpose of this thread may actually be.

The person that owns the rights to the Irish Open is the person you should be venting at. So instead of having a pop at Noel go do your homework and find out that person’s name and let them know how you feel.

Well done Noel in getting the improvements for this year’s event.

I know from experience how frustrating it can be, keep up the good work.

John.

really does someone own the rights to the name irish poker open ?

thought the merrion ran a tourie every year and called it the irish open

now really what the big deal in increasing the starting stack like every other big tourie in the world have done its a 4k buy in not a 100 or 250 end of the month one were u have to finish over the one night .

paddy powers put a lot in to this tourie and really should give the punters who enter some value for there money not have it as a 4k crapshoot from a early stage

---

ps paddys pay for there name to front this they should make sure its the best value then for there punters

dannydiamond

a-k-47

D.C.C

corkie123 wrote: »

really does someone own the rights to the name irish poker open ?

thought the merrion ran a tourie every year and called it the irish open

now really what the big deal in increasing the starting stack like every other big tourie in the world have done its a 4k buy in not a 100 or 250 end of the month one were u have to finish over the one night .

paddy powers put a lot in to this tourie and really should give the punters who enter some value for there money not have it as a 4k crapshoot from a early stage

---

ps paddys pay for there name to front this they should make sure its the best value then for there punters

Do you understand the improvements made????The first time the wsop increased the starting stack to 20k they started at 50/100(which is pretty much as starting with 10k)...The levels and time are the most important thing!!!The 4k buyin is big,but they will have over 500/600 players at the IO.And it certainly won't be a crapshoot from an early stage...Obviously it will at some stage,usually around the bubble,maybe a bit before that.That's tournament poker.To increase the starting stack to 20k Paddy Power would probably need an extra day to finish the tournament.......

roleynoley

D.C.C wrote: »

Do you understand the improvements made????The first time the wsop increased the starting stack to 20k they started at 50/100(which is pretty much as starting with 10k)...The levels and time are the most important thing!!!The 4k buyin is big,but they will have over 500/600 players at the IO.And it certainly won't be a crapshoot from an early stage...Obviously it will at some stage,usually around the bubble,maybe a bit before that.That's tournament poker.To increase the starting stack to 20k Paddy Power would probably need an extra day to finish the tournament.......

What a load of bull!!An extra day??Cop on man!!

D.C.C

Well Roleynoley it's not bull!!!I said maybe possible and would have to be allowed for...600 players approx with 10k extra in play thats 6,000,000....So depending on how quick or slow the play is,any good tournament organiser would allow for it possibly going on that long.Because the final day is usually just final table on t.v....

To be honest i'm probably wasting time typing this,because of your last comment your probably not the smartest cookie in the jar!!!

corkie123

D.C.C wrote: »

Do you understand the improvements made????The first time the wsop increased the starting stack to 20k they started at 50/100(which is pretty much as starting with 10k)...The levels and time are the most important thing!!!The 4k buyin is big,but they will have over 500/600 players at the IO.And it certainly won't be a crapshoot from an early stage...Obviously it will at some stage,usually around the bubble,maybe a bit before that.That's tournament poker.To increase the starting stack to 20k Paddy Power would probably need an extra day to finish the tournament.......

why do i bother haha

D.C.C

Explain Corkie123????

jbravado

Whats wrong with Irish people that they feel they need a billion chips at the start of a tournament.

The great thing is that most people would have a significantly better chance of cashing if there was less chips not more.

I think the new structure looks perfectly reasonable and will play out fine.

Goodluck2me

tensevensuited wrote: »

noel its about time u take customers seriously coz we r not fools.

eyeroney.

zsoulking wrote: »

This is ridicules it’s very obvious to anyone who has ever met with Noel that all he wants to do is make the Irish Open the best that it can be.

I remember Noel coming to me in the Sporting Emporium when he was first appointed at Paddy Power. We spoke about the Irish Open and the improvements that he wanted to make.

If Noel had Cart Blanche on the running of the event then I would imagine that the starting stack would be at least 15k and the levels would probably be 90 min.

As things stand Noel is trying his very best to persuade other parties that improvements must be made.

So instead of coming on here ranting and raving about how Paddy Power are a disgrace and that you aren’t being listened to open your eyes and see what the purpose of this thread may actually be.

The person that owns the rights to the Irish Open is the person you should be venting at. So instead of having a pop at Noel go do your homework and find out that person’s name and let them know how you feel.

Well done Noel in getting the improvements for this year’s event.

I know from experience how frustrating it can be, keep up the good work.

John.

Finally!! smell the coffee guys, its quite clearly not Noels idea to have 10k! It's laughable how blindsighted people are on here, perhaps re-read the thread again, anyone who was complaining...
Noel - Good luck!

Four of a kind

Maybe if someone could post both the new IO structure alongside the new EPT structure here for everyone to see.

I think the new improvements in the IO are a step in the right direction. Obviously not everyone is going to be happy with the structure, but its def looking like PP are listening to what their customers want.

bohsman

5k chips please.

D.C.C

Putting the IO and EPT structures along side eachother is quite pointless!!!Different tornaments altogether...Different horses for different courses and so on......

This is the Irish Open!!!Noel is working his ass off to come in line with other European tournaments and all he is getting is 80% negative feedback.Guys this is a positive step for the IO and can only get better from here.

I agree 15k/20k would bring the IO to the
top of the pecking order of european tournaments.But they have made huge improvements and i'm sure next year they will do the same to keep customers coming back...One step at a time!!!!

smoothcall

jbravado wrote: »

Whats wrong with Irish people that they feel they need a billion chips at the start of a tournament.

This.

The added levels and longer clock is better than 15k chips imo. Of course i'd prefer 15k but this is definitely a step in the right direction. Good work Noel

corkie123

i think noel must have a bet like i had as to how many post will this tread will get .

i also hope d.c.c will get his head up over ground as well the poor guy must need some air after all his licking . :D:rolleyes:;)

as for this been a step on the right direction few more steps are needed to be taken for it to be better christ there giving 15k for winter fes 1500 buy in and then for 4k buy in 10k spot the logic in this someone .

hope noel can get the increase thats needed from the PEOPLE in power :D

LuckyLloyd

Allow me to make a comparison with the upcoming Borgata Poker Open.

Details:

Irish Open, €3200 + 300, guarantee not confirmed (€2, 240, 000 purse 2009)
Borgata WPT ME, $3300 + 200, $2, 000, 000 guaranteed

Both TV events.


Structure:


Irish Open:

10, 000 Starting Stack

1.) 25 - 50 (60min)
2.) 50 - 100 (60 min)
3.) 75 - 150 (60 min)
4.) 100 - 200 (60 min)
5.) 150 - 300 (60 min)
6.) 150 - 300 / 25 (60 min)
7.) 200 - 400 / 25 (75 min)
8.) 300 - 600 / 50 (75 min)
9.) 400 - 800 / 50 (75 min)
10.) 500 - 1000 / 50 (75 min)
11.) 600 - 1200 / 100 (75 min)
12.) 800 - 1600 / 100 (75 min)
13.) 1000 - 2000 / 200 (75 min)
14.) 1200 - 2400 / 200 (75 min)
15.) 1500 - 3000 / 300 (75 min)
16.) 2000 - 4000 / 400 (75 min)
17.) 2500 - 5000 / 500 (75 min)
18.) 3000 - 6000 / 500 (75 min)
19.) 4000 - 8000 / 500 (75 min)
20.) 5000 - 10000 / 1000 (75 min)
21.) 6000 - 12000 / 1000 (75 min)
22.) 8000 - 16000 / 1500 (75 min)
23.) 10000 - 20000 / 2000 (75 min)
24.) 12000 - 24000 / 2000 (75 min)
25.) 15000 - 30000 / 3000 (75 min)

etc with full postings for 32 levels

Borgata Open WPT Championship Event:

30, 000 Starting Stack

1.) 25 - 50 (75 min)
2.) 50 - 100 (75 min)
3.) 75 - 150 (75 min)
4.) 100 - 200 (75 min)
5.) 100 - 200 / 25 (75 min)
6.) 150 - 300 / 25 (75 min)
7.) 200 - 400 / 50 (75 min)
8.) 250 - 500 / 50 (75 min)
9.) 300 - 600 / 75 (75 min)
10.) 400 - 800 / 75 (75 min)
11.) 500 - 1000 / 100 (75 min)
12.) 600 - 1200 / 100 (75 min)
13.) 800 - 1600 / 200 (75 min)
14.) 1000 - 2000 / 200 (75 min)
15.) 1200 - 2400 / 300 (75 min)
16.) 1500 - 3000 / 300 (75 min)
17.) 2000 - 4000 / 400 (75 min)
18.) 2500 - 5000 / 400 (75 min)
19.) 3000 - 6000 / 500 (75 min)
20.) 4000 - 8000 / 500 (75 min)
21.) 5000 - 1000 / 1000 (75 min)
22.) 6000 - 12000 / 1000 (75 min)
23.) 8000 - 16000 / 2000 (75 min)
24.) 10000 - 20000 / 2000 (75 min)

Tournament directors discretion thereafter


Comments:

Here we have two tournaments, pitched at the same buyin level with the expectation of similiar prizepools. And the one with the lessor registration charge carries a far superior structure. All this 'US tournaments have smaller starting stacks / longer clocks' noise is pure rubbish. The tournament market has significantly evolved in the US as well, and this evolution can be witnessed through the recurring Borgata and Foxwoods Mega Stack deepstack festivals with main events in line with our €500 and €1000 buyin events, the Venetian Deepstack festivals, and the recent improvements to the WSOP Circuit Event and Main Event structures.

Looking at the above comparison, the WPT event has a consistently lower total round cost, more time early, and 3x the amount of chips in play. WPT events that have employed this format in the past have typically had 60BB+ average stacks around the bubble, and 40BB+ average stacks when the TV final table of six forms. I can pretty much guarantee that the average stack in the Irish Open 2010 will not be as large at either point.

Ultimately, the modified IO structure is superior to previous incarnations. But it compares unfavourably with similarly profiled tournaments around the world.

LuckyLloyd

And yeah, I realize that PPP staff aren't entirely to blame for the deficiencies with the IO. And that they are forced to come on here and claim that their tournament offers great value in a relative sense, is awesome, blah blah (tis their job after all).

Four of a kind

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Allow me to make a comparison with the upcoming Borgata Poker Open.

Details:

Irish Open, €3200 + 300, guarantee not confirmed (€2, 240, 000 purse 2009)
Borgata WPT ME, $3300 + 200, $2, 000, 000 guaranteed

Both TV events.


Structure:


Irish Open:

10, 000 Starting Stack

1.) 25 - 50 (60min)
2.) 50 - 100 (60 min)
3.) 75 - 150 (60 min)
4.) 100 - 200 (60 min)
5.) 150 - 300 (60 min)
6.) 150 - 300 / 25 (60 min)
7.) 200 - 400 / 25 (75 min)
8.) 300 - 600 / 50 (75 min)
9.) 400 - 800 / 50 (75 min)
10.) 500 - 1000 / 50 (75 min)
11.) 600 - 1200 / 100 (75 min)
12.) 800 - 1600 / 100 (75 min)
13.) 1000 - 2000 / 200 (75 min)
14.) 1200 - 2400 / 200 (75 min)
15.) 1500 - 3000 / 300 (75 min)
16.) 2000 - 4000 / 400 (75 min)
17.) 2500 - 5000 / 500 (75 min)
18.) 3000 - 6000 / 500 (75 min)
19.) 4000 - 8000 / 500 (75 min)
20.) 5000 - 10000 / 1000 (75 min)
21.) 6000 - 12000 / 1000 (75 min)
22.) 8000 - 16000 / 1500 (75 min)
23.) 10000 - 20000 / 2000 (75 min)
24.) 12000 - 24000 / 2000 (75 min)
25.) 15000 - 30000 / 3000 (75 min)

etc with full postings for 32 levels

Borgata Open WPT Championship Event:

30, 000 Starting Stack

1.) 25 - 50 (75 min)
2.) 50 - 100 (75 min)
3.) 75 - 150 (75 min)
4.) 100 - 200 (75 min)
5.) 100 - 200 / 25 (75 min)
6.) 150 - 300 / 25 (75 min)
7.) 200 - 400 / 50 (75 min)
8.) 250 - 500 / 50 (75 min)
9.) 300 - 600 / 75 (75 min)
10.) 400 - 800 / 75 (75 min)
11.) 500 - 1000 / 100 (75 min)
12.) 600 - 1200 / 100 (75 min)
13.) 800 - 1600 / 200 (75 min)
14.) 1000 - 2000 / 200 (75 min)
15.) 1200 - 2400 / 300 (75 min)
16.) 1500 - 3000 / 300 (75 min)
17.) 2000 - 4000 / 400 (75 min)
18.) 2500 - 5000 / 400 (75 min)
19.) 3000 - 6000 / 500 (75 min)
20.) 4000 - 8000 / 500 (75 min)
21.) 5000 - 1000 / 1000 (75 min)
22.) 6000 - 12000 / 1000 (75 min)
23.) 8000 - 16000 / 2000 (75 min)
24.) 10000 - 20000 / 2000 (75 min)

Tournament directors discretion thereafter


Comments:

Here we have two tournaments, pitched at the same buyin level with the expectation of similiar prizepools. And the one with the lessor registration charge carries a far superior structure. All this 'US tournaments have smaller starting stacks / longer clocks' noise is pure rubbish. The tournament market has significantly evolved in the US as well, and this evolution can be witnessed through the recurring Borgata and Foxwoods Mega Stack deepstack festivals with main events in line with our €500 and €1000 buyin events, the Venetian Deepstack festivals, and the recent improvements to the WSOP Circuit Event and Main Event structures.

Looking at the above comparison, the WPT event has a consistently lower total round cost, more time early, and 3x the amount of chips in play. WPT events that have employed this format in the past have typically had 60BB+ average stacks around the bubble, and 40BB+ average stacks when the TV final table of six forms. I can pretty much guarantee that the average stack in the Irish Open 2010 will not be as large at either point.

Ultimately, the modified IO structure is superior to previous incarnations. But it compares unfavourably with similarly profiled tournaments around the world.

Good comparison Lloyd.

BigCityBanker

Lloyd - thanks for your research. Good post.

BigCityBanker

corkie123 wrote: »

as for this been a step on the right direction few more steps are needed to be taken for it to be better christ there giving 15k for winter fes 1500 buy in and then for 4k buy in 10k spot the logic in this someone .

it upsets me that somebody who has played as much poker as you doesnt seem to get that starting stack is only one of 3 major influences (i really think there are 4 but 1 of them doesnt affect the IO like it does say an event like the Aussie Millions) of how much 'play' there is in an event.

the IWF and IO structures are not directly comparable - each is entitled to their own opinion but I would certainly prefer to play the IO structure rather than the IWF one. but thats just my opinion and im not trying to force people to accept it. What I would ask people to do is realise that the amount of chips you start with is not the correct means of measuring the worth of a tournaments structure.

D.C.C

I don't even live in Ireland anymore and i am just giving an opinion as i have years of casino experience and running poker tournaments,,,,,,,,,PPP can do whatever they like and Noel is someone i know personally but professionally i think he is doing a very good job and improving the IO evry year......the additions this year should be enough and i'm sure the IO will keep improving every year!!!!

reilly110

1500 chips 10 min levels ftw

PiperT

Hi Noel

I really think its great to see PPP listening to the players with regard to structure and I definitely think this is a massive step in the right direction.

You refer to "stakeholders" in another post and it has to be pointed out that probably the largest stakeholders in the IO are the players themselves. It would do no harm to consider what people are saying regarding stacks. I would be happy to play a 10k stack with this structure but I think PPP need to consider the attraction a 20k stack would have from a marketing perspective as much as anything. This is what people are looking for. If its possible to introduce new levels to improve the structure well then it should be equally possible to change the stack size. Why not go the extra mile ?

Can't understand people getting the hump on this issue though.

Either way, I'll be doing my best to play the IO in 2010.

Well done.
Tim

MrPillowTalk

zsoulking wrote: »

This is ridicules it’s very obvious to anyone who has ever met with Noel that all he wants to do is make the Irish Open the best that it can be.

I remember Noel coming to me in the Sporting Emporium when he was first appointed at Paddy Power. We spoke about the Irish Open and the improvements that he wanted to make.

If Noel had Cart Blanche on the running of the event then I would imagine that the starting stack would be at least 15k and the levels would probably be 90 min.

As things stand Noel is trying his very best to persuade other parties that improvements must be made.

So instead of coming on here ranting and raving about how Paddy Power are a disgrace and that you aren’t being listened to open your eyes and see what the purpose of this thread may actually be.

The person that owns the rights to the Irish Open is the person you should be venting at. So instead of having a pop at Noel go do your homework and find out that person’s name and let them know how you feel.

Well done Noel in getting the improvements for this year’s event.

I know from experience how frustrating it can be, keep up the good work.

John.

In fairness John, Noel came on asking for feedback, and thats what has happened. Im sure if he had free reign then the starting stack would be increased however Im also sure he is thick skinned enough to take the criticism leveled as he is the ppp representative on the board. I imagine that the reaction on the thread is precisely what he expected it to be and he may use it as a referance when recommending structure changes as to what the people want. I dont think anyone is personally going after noel.

Whilst I think a 15 or 20k stack is better I still think this is probably a great value tournament due to the terrible players that will enter, I love playing 20k stack games because I know I can beat up all the nits who wont play a pot untill day 2, but theres more than one way to play a tourney.

Ollieboy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Allow me to make a comparison with the upcoming Borgata Poker Open.

Details:

Irish Open, €3200 + 300, guarantee not confirmed (€2, 240, 000 purse 2009)
Borgata WPT ME, $3300 + 200, $2, 000, 000 guaranteed

Both TV events.


Structure:


Irish Open:

10, 000 Starting Stack

1.) 25 - 50 (60min)
2.) 50 - 100 (60 min)
3.) 75 - 150 (60 min)
4.) 100 - 200 (60 min)
5.) 150 - 300 (60 min)
6.) 150 - 300 / 25 (60 min)
7.) 200 - 400 / 25 (75 min)
8.) 300 - 600 / 50 (75 min)
9.) 400 - 800 / 50 (75 min)
10.) 500 - 1000 / 50 (75 min)
11.) 600 - 1200 / 100 (75 min)
12.) 800 - 1600 / 100 (75 min)
13.) 1000 - 2000 / 200 (75 min)
14.) 1200 - 2400 / 200 (75 min)
15.) 1500 - 3000 / 300 (75 min)
16.) 2000 - 4000 / 400 (75 min)
17.) 2500 - 5000 / 500 (75 min)
18.) 3000 - 6000 / 500 (75 min)
19.) 4000 - 8000 / 500 (75 min)
20.) 5000 - 10000 / 1000 (75 min)
21.) 6000 - 12000 / 1000 (75 min)
22.) 8000 - 16000 / 1500 (75 min)
23.) 10000 - 20000 / 2000 (75 min)
24.) 12000 - 24000 / 2000 (75 min)
25.) 15000 - 30000 / 3000 (75 min)

etc with full postings for 32 levels

Borgata Open WPT Championship Event:

30, 000 Starting Stack

1.) 25 - 50 (75 min)
2.) 50 - 100 (75 min)
3.) 75 - 150 (75 min)
4.) 100 - 200 (75 min)
5.) 100 - 200 / 25 (75 min)
6.) 150 - 300 / 25 (75 min)
7.) 200 - 400 / 50 (75 min)
8.) 250 - 500 / 50 (75 min)
9.) 300 - 600 / 75 (75 min)
10.) 400 - 800 / 75 (75 min)
11.) 500 - 1000 / 100 (75 min)
12.) 600 - 1200 / 100 (75 min)
13.) 800 - 1600 / 200 (75 min)
14.) 1000 - 2000 / 200 (75 min)
15.) 1200 - 2400 / 300 (75 min)
16.) 1500 - 3000 / 300 (75 min)
17.) 2000 - 4000 / 400 (75 min)
18.) 2500 - 5000 / 400 (75 min)
19.) 3000 - 6000 / 500 (75 min)
20.) 4000 - 8000 / 500 (75 min)
21.) 5000 - 1000 / 1000 (75 min)
22.) 6000 - 12000 / 1000 (75 min)
23.) 8000 - 16000 / 2000 (75 min)
24.) 10000 - 20000 / 2000 (75 min)

Tournament directors discretion thereafter


Comments:

Here we have two tournaments, pitched at the same buyin level with the expectation of similiar prizepools. And the one with the lessor registration charge carries a far superior structure. All this 'US tournaments have smaller starting stacks / longer clocks' noise is pure rubbish. The tournament market has significantly evolved in the US as well, and this evolution can be witnessed through the recurring Borgata and Foxwoods Mega Stack deepstack festivals with main events in line with our €500 and €1000 buyin events, the Venetian Deepstack festivals, and the recent improvements to the WSOP Circuit Event and Main Event structures.

Looking at the above comparison, the WPT event has a consistently lower total round cost, more time early, and 3x the amount of chips in play. WPT events that have employed this format in the past have typically had 60BB+ average stacks around the bubble, and 40BB+ average stacks when the TV final table of six forms. I can pretty much guarantee that the average stack in the Irish Open 2010 will not be as large at either point.

Ultimately, the modified IO structure is superior to previous incarnations. But it compares unfavourably with similarly profiled tournaments around the world.

good camparsion Lloyd, but I don't think running costs would be as high as they are in City West. Take the minimum wage alone in this country compare to the states..... I'm not saying thats a reason to have a poorer structure, but running tourneys is a business too

corkie123

. as noel said i have played in a good few places and should know a good structure when i see it .i have not at anytime said that the new IO was a bad one . but it really would be a good one if it had a 20k starting stack . and it would be better VALUE for the punters .

remember i said VALUE NOEL
:D:D:D:D

LuckyLloyd

Ollieboy wrote: »

good camparsion Lloyd, but I don't think running costs would be as high as they are in City West. Take the minimum wage alone in this country compare to the states..... I'm not saying thats a reason to have a poorer structure, but running tourneys is a business too

The lower running costs is an explanation for the lower juice, but I fail to see how it is relevant with regards to the tournament structure?

nicnicnic

I doubt there has been anyone more critical of the IO structure over the last few years then myself so credit where its due, these are huge improvements.

If I was asked how to improve on this new structure I'd add an extra 2k in chips. For me this would then be close to the optimally balanced game.

roleynoley

D.C.C wrote: »

Well Roleynoley it's not bull!!!I said maybe possible and would have to be allowed for...600 players approx with 10k extra in play thats 6,000,000....So depending on how quick or slow the play is,any good tournament organiser would allow for it possibly going on that long.Because the final day is usually just final table on t.v....

To be honest i'm probably wasting time typing this,because of your last comment your probably not the smartest cookie in the jar!!!

LOL!!!!!!

roleynoley

nicnicnic wrote: »

I doubt there has been anyone more critical of the IO structure over the last few years then myself so credit where its due, these are huge improvements.

If I was asked how to improve on this new structure I'd add an extra 2k in chips. For me this would then be close to the optimally balanced game.

+1

DAMO72

I think it's clear to see what Noel's objective was by posting this thread, At least he has something to show the power's that be when and if they ever listen to him.

doke

roleynoley wrote: »

+1

+2.

Actually, I think it's really +3, as a man of Noel's build surely counts as 2 on his own.

boba_fett3099

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The lower running costs is an explanation for the lower juice, but I fail to see how it is relevant with regards to the tournament structure?

Dealers wages! Also more players still in the ME means less players in the side events/playing cash games which is what its all about from the Merrion/Jackpot's pov

DAMO72

boba_fett3099 wrote: »

Dealers wages! Also more players still in the ME means less players in the side events/playing cash games which is what its all about from the Merrion/Jackpot's pov

I thought it was about an instatution and not greed

LuckyLloyd

boba_fett3099 wrote: »

Dealers wages! Also more players still in the ME means less players in the side events/playing cash games which is what its all about from the Merrion/Jackpot's pov

As Noel has explained on the forum here before, the tournament is a loss leader from Paddy Power's perspective. It seems to me that if you view the tournament as a marketing exercise and a method of representing your brand to the wider poker community, you would like the tournament itself to stand comfortably beside other events of a similar stature. And if you aren't going to make money on it anyway, then..?

To look at it from another angle, I'd be fairly certain that if you asked the players putting money down to play the event (or those who satted in) whether they'd prefer a limited budget to be focused on the dealers / expenses required to have a significantly improved structure, in the stead of the musical acts and assorted gimmicks in the lobby it wouldn't really be close.

And from the Merrion's perspective, adding an extra day's play to the weekend would surely balance out the slower dropout rate of those participating in the Main Event?

Ultimately, we can beat around the bush here to our heart's content. But it won't change the fact that the real impediment to a significant overhaul of the tournament (and impactful flexibility with respect to the tournament structure) squarely lies in the intransigence of a single individual. I was in here in 2007 and 2008 screaming blue murder about this and that with respect to the tournament - I had to learn that such shouting and roaring is the definition of wasted energy.

All I've wanted to do in this particular thread is plainly demonstrate that the IO 2010 ME structure remains (despite the improvements) relatively bad value when compared to similar events held around the world. I'm sure Noel and his colleagues will pass on that message (and have been to the best of their ability) to those with fingers in their ears. Fair enough.

corkie123

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As Noel has explained on the forum here before, the tournament is a loss leader from Paddy Power's perspective. It seems to me that if you view the tournament as a marketing exercise and a method of representing your brand to the wider poker community, you would like the tournament itself to stand comfortably beside other events of a similar stature. And if you aren't going to make money on it anyway, then..?

To look at it from another angle, I'd be fairly certain that if you asked the players putting money down to play the event (or those who satted in) whether they'd prefer a limited budget to be focused on the dealers / expenses required to have a significantly improved structure, in the stead of the musical acts and assorted gimmicks in the lobby it wouldn't really be close.

And from the Merrion's perspective, adding an extra day's play to the weekend would surely balance out the slower dropout rate of those participating in the Main Event?

Ultimately, we can beat around the bush here to our heart's content. But it won't change the fact that the real impediment to a significant overhaul of the tournament (and impactful flexibility with respect to the tournament structure) squarely lies in the intransigence of a single individual. I was in here in 2007 and 2008 screaming blue murder about this and that with respect to the tournament - I had to learn that such shouting and roaring is the definition of wasted energy.

All I've wanted to do in this particular thread is plainly demonstrate that the IO 2010 ME structure remains (despite the improvements) relatively bad value when compared to similar events held around the world. I'm sure Noel and his colleagues will pass on that message (and have been to the best of their ability) to those with fingers in their ears. Fair enough.

+ 1

________________________________________________________

westlife

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As Noel has explained on the forum here before, the tournament is a loss leader from Paddy Power's perspective. It seems to me that if you view the tournament as a marketing exercise and a method of representing your brand to the wider poker community, you would like the tournament itself to stand comfortably beside other events of a similar stature. And if you aren't going to make money on it anyway, then..?

1 -To look at it from another angle, I'd be fairly certain that if you asked the players putting money down to play the event (or those who satted in) whether they'd prefer a limited budget to be focused on the dealers / expenses required to have a significantly improved structure, in the stead of the musical acts and assorted gimmicks in the lobby it wouldn't really be close.

2- And from the Merrion's perspective, adding an extra day's play to the weekend would surely balance out the slower dropout rate of those participating in the Main Event?


answer to 1- to save further money why not find a big shed somewhere, some barrels and flat boards as tables and the reg fee would be a fraction what it is now ( also bring a packed lunch). Have NO bar in the shed and this will ensure that people's 'expenditure' would be improved dramatically and make it the best valued tourney in the world.

answer to 2- adding an extra day's play will cost the reg to be increased as the hotel will be looking for €10,000 - €15,000 room hire for an addition day's use! Where is the money saved now?


Is there anybody out there that did not think that the entertainment provided added to the whole character of the event? I have been to a lot of events and find that the atmosphere created by the entertainment went towards making the event what it was! It has to be different to every other event because its the Irish open, the holy grail in Irish poker, and the fact that PPP try and make it a bit different / special should be applauded. I talked to so many English, French, Americans and people from all over the world and they say that these efforts from the organisers to make this not only a great poker tourney, but a special social event, is why they come back year after year to support the festival. If the powers that be (no pun intended) decide to concede to the pressure of people and change to 15,000 SS then what happens when the numerous people that have voiced their opinion that the structure is fine, the way it has been updated, begin a thread complaining that they believe the original SS of 10,000 was better? You are never going to please all the people all the time. Simple solution. If anybody feels so strongly about the 'poor starting stack' then exercise your right as a free individual and don't play any Sats, Supersats or buy-in's to the greatest tourney in Europe. The Paddy Power Poker Irish Open is not the only tournament around Europe that has this level of buy in and thanks to Ryan Air you can get yourself to any tournament around Europe for €60.00 return! No, the venue, Bar facilities, entertainment and that chance to make you a poker legend in Ireland for the rest of your life is what brings us, and all the players from around the world, back year after year.

We are all entitled to our opinions but I feel the more pressure put on the organisers the more they will feel 'cornered' into upholding their decision on the starting stack. Let Noel go back and talk to the decision makers and maybe they will rethink the starting stack. But if they feel like they are being 'told' what to do they will have the attitude that any one of us would have in the same situation if it was our tournament... 'It's our tournament and will do what we like'

Paul Spillane

I think the changes are excellent.
Personally i would request less chips, more chips = more edge for the better players; you only have to look at the last 3 winners, all world class (and look again at the f/t in 2007, one of the best ever?)

Out of curiousity question: Would you play in an event based on this structure but you had an either or option. You could either
A) pay €3000 for 20,000 chips or
€1500 for 10,000 chips.

If you would play, what option would you take?