Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

lucernarian · 19-09-2009 11:20pm

That seems good. I think the aerial change and better placing of the amp, along with using copper-screened cable will ensure breakups will be rare.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 10:26am

Sazziey wrote: »

Hi
Yes - the box is factory reconditioned - is this why I have a problem? Any recommendations as to which box to get now then? Am getting very confused with it all.......:(

Recon boxes could be a con. For the box to work you:

a) Need to have a modern one with the UK digital tick.

b) Make sure it does 2k/8k DVB-T

c) If you were receiving good Preseli analogue you will be in business

d) Later if it all works well you can splash out on a Freeview HD box (DVB-T2) which will be backwards compatible with Irish DTT.

A good one is the Philips DTR 220, richersounds and the rest sell them.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 10:28am

Antenna wrote: »

It might be pushing it to say its available in the 'South East' rather than Co. Wexford. Stable reception is only a possibility for an insignificant number of people in Co. Waterford, and there are no reports of UK DTT reception in the other counties of the South East - Kilkenny, Carlow, South Tipperary

It will only be available in areas where good Preseli analogue was available, but no doubt others will try who had 'iffy' Welsh reception.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 10:32am

Verso wrote: »

Hi all,

My system is located some 8 miles south of Courtown and I am using a 20 years old Yagi style aerial with WF65 cable connected through a 26dB amp in the loft (the aerial is outside on a 3 metre mast). With this temporary arrangement I have received 91 channels at a signal strength of 52/59%.

I want to improve on this by changing to a new 48 element wideband aerial with the amp placed on the mast.

Before doing so I would appreciate any advice or suggestions to improve the signal strength.

Thanks in anticipation of any replies.

Impressive. You are receiving all stations. A variable amp might be better and you could also consider a high gain log periodic which is far less heavy on the mast: its worth doing some research into this before buying. The internet has very interesting sites on this. The most important reading is the quality: if this in the 90s there will be no glitching.Let us know what happens.

elsie1b · 20-09-2009 11:18am

mrdtv wrote: »

Impressive. You are receiving all stations. A variable amp might be better and you could also consider a high gain log periodic which is far less heavy on the mast: its worth doing some research into this before buying. The internet has very interesting sites on this. The most important reading is the quality: if this in the 90s there will be no glitching.Let us know what happens.

Excuse me for asking , but is it possible to receive the channels on channel 45 that are drowned out by mount leinster ,here in Ballymurn, Co. Wexford.
All the other multiplexes are loud and clear at the moment ,at least until Irish dtt is up and fully running.

marclt · 20-09-2009 1:14pm

elsie1b wrote: »

Excuse me for asking , but is it possible to receive the channels on channel 45 that are drowned out by mount leinster ,here in Ballymurn, Co. Wexford.
All the other multiplexes are loud and clear at the moment ,at least until Irish dtt is up and fully running.

It is unlikely that you'll be able to block out these signals... given your proximity to Mt. Leinster. However, if you have a tv3 aerial connected you might be able to try that. Although you will more than likely lose a watchable tv3/tg4 service.

Let's hope that RTE/BCI et al get the message that they need to change their frequency plan, although the cynical side of me thinks it has been planned like this to encourage as many people to take out a sub to the pay per view service!

Verso · 20-09-2009 2:05pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Impressive. You are receiving all stations. A variable amp might be better and you could also consider a high gain log periodic which is far less heavy on the mast: its worth doing some research into this before buying. The internet has very interesting sites on this. The most important reading is the quality: if this in the 90s there will be no glitching.Let us know what happens.

To-be-confirmed and mrdtv thanks for your comments. With regard to signal quality unfortuneatly my TV only indicates strength. It does not have any 'Quality' indicator. I will consider the log periodic aerial but AFAIK this type of aerial has to be pointed very accurately. Also my amp is variable but with my present setup reducing the gain makes no difference in the higher scales.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 3:41pm

Verso wrote: »

To-be-confirmed and mrdtv thanks for your comments. With regard to signal quality unfortuneatly my TV only indicates strength. It does not have any 'Quality' indicator. I will consider the log periodic aerial but AFAIK this type of aerial has to be pointed very accurately. Also my amp is variable but with my present setup reducing the gain makes no difference in the higher scales.

Most logs have a 60 degree acceptance angle! Alternatively your TV may give a BER readout (this is usually zero for a perfect signal.) Looking forward to hearing results from you.

mrdtv · 20-09-2009 3:43pm

elsie1b wrote: »

Excuse me for asking , but is it possible to receive the channels on channel 45 that are drowned out by mount leinster ,here in Ballymurn, Co. Wexford.
All the other multiplexes are loud and clear at the moment ,at least until Irish dtt is up and fully running.

Ch 45 is co channel. The three Preseli PSB muxes (BBC, ITV, C4 and the future HD service) will NOT be cochannel with any Mt Leinster services. After switchoff in Ireland RTE may change frequencies. So stay tuned.

prioryc · 20-09-2009 6:45pm

Verso wrote: »

Hi all,

My system is located some 8 miles south of Courtown and I am using a 20 years old Yagi style aerial with WF65 cable connected through a 26dB amp in the loft (the aerial is outside on a 3 metre mast). With this temporary arrangement I have received 91 channels at a signal strength of 52/59%.

I want to improve on this by changing to a new 48 element wideband aerial with the amp placed on the mast.

Before doing so I would appreciate any advice or suggestions to improve the signal strength.

Thanks in anticipation of any replies.

im getting a return of 99 channels in gorey with the old aerials too(quality 79%bbc/others40-60%) and was thinking of upgrading but as all the channels are not on full power like the bbc( see links to sites below)might be worth waiting for the others ...if u do go ahead please post your quality results

http://www.freeview.co.uk/freeview/Resolutions/About-Channels/Retuning/Freeview-national-retune-30-September-2009

http://www.ukfree.tv/starthere.php <<another good site lots of info here too

P.S ...spread the freeview word :pac:..s......k.....y

irishtoffee · 20-09-2009 7:12pm

prioryc wrote: »

im getting a return of 99 channels in gorey with the old aerials too(quality 79%bbc/others40-60%) and was thinking of upgrading but as all the channels are not on full power like the bbc( see links to sites below)might be worth waiting for the others ...if u do go ahead please post your quality results

http://www.freeview.co.uk/freeview/Resolutions/About-Channels/Retuning/Freeview-national-retune-30-September-2009

http://www.ukfree.tv/starthere.php <<another good site lots of info here too

P.S ...spread the freeview word :pac:..s......k.....y

May i ask what channels you are getting?

Verso · 20-09-2009 8:32pm

prioryc wrote: »

im getting a return of 99 channels in gorey with the old aerials too(quality 79%bbc/others40-60%) and was thinking of upgrading but as all the channels are not on full power like the bbc( see links to sites below)might be worth waiting for the others ...if u do go ahead please post your quality results

Thanks all for your comments and help.

prioryc - I am not there at 99 channels yet. My aerial not only is ancient but it is a shorter aerial than any of the others in the area so I think I will go ahead and upgrade. I will let you all know how I get on.

prioryc · 20-09-2009 10:40pm

irishtoffee wrote: »

May i ask what channels you are getting?

S4C,S4c2,five,five u.s.a,fiver,virgin1,qvc,bid tv&QUEST test card (due to start on 30th september),ESPN & top up tv channels
BBC Radio 1,2,3,4,5,rssx,live,6,7, BBC world service,1xtra,bbc4asian network
BBC tv 1,2,3,4, 301+302+303+305,Parliment cbbc,cbeebies, bbc radio wales Sky 3 ,Dave,sky sports news,sky news,talk sport,premier radio 4 Music,TMF,ITV4,virgin+1,ITV2,Dave Ja Vu,Film 4,Russia Today,
the hits,kerrang,kiss,magic,yesterday,teacherstv,smooth,heatradio,ITV1,3,4,itv2+1,E4,channel 4,c4+1,more4,televisionx,rabbit,gay rabbit,babestation,lotto tv,ideal world,home,CNN,community channel,big deal,smile tv,create & craft

thats nearly all the channels on my epg on Samsung Freeview tv/C.I slot(common interface/top up/espn/ card)

irishtoffee · 20-09-2009 11:00pm

prioryc wrote: »

S4C,S4c2,five,five u.s.a,fiver,virgin1,qvc,bid tv&QUEST test card (due to start on 30th september),ESPN & top up tv channels
BBC Radio 1,2,3,4,5,rssx,live,6,7, BBC world service,1xtra,bbc4asian network
BBC tv 1,2,3,4, 301+302+303+305,Parliment cbbc,cbeebies, bbc radio wales Sky 3 ,Dave,sky sports news,sky news,talk sport,premier radio 4 Music,TMF,ITV4,virgin+1,ITV2,Dave Ja Vu,Film 4,Russia Today,
the hits,kerrang,kiss,magic,yesterday,teacherstv,smooth,heatradio,ITV1,3,4,itv2+1,E4,channel 4,c4+1,more4,televisionx,rabbit,gay rabbit,babestation,lotto tv,ideal world,home,CNN,community channel,big deal,smile tv,create & craft

thats nearly all the channels on my epg on Samsung Freeview tv/C.I slot(common interface/top up/espn/ card)

Thannks mate my box is arriving tomorrow,espn and some of the others are subscription?

prioryc · 21-09-2009 12:07am

irishtoffee wrote: »

Thannks mate my box is arriving tomorrow,espn and some of the others are subscription?

yes ...top up tv is ppv see here
http://www.topuptv.com/

Satdog · 21-09-2009 11:05am

Satdog wrote: »

In case anyone is interested.

Hooked up Philips 32PFL5604 (MPEG2 & MPEG4) to existing aerials - VHF to Mount Leinster and 19 element contract UHF aerial to Preseli, Wales. Irish and UK digital received. Will look later to see exactly what's coming in from Walses (EPG, SD vs HD etc.). I live three miles south of Wexford town on a bit of a height with clear view out to sea.

Satdog

The above was originally posted on the thread "TVs with MPEG4 Decoders" but I think the proper place is here, especially now as I'm looking for some answers. I have satellite so I’m getting most of the channels anyway, I will however have to do something for the mother-in-law.
The Irish DTT are a dead duck, mostly sound - don't how they came in loud and clear originally on a VHF aerial. As regards UK DTT the only channels I'm picking up are BB1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC4, BBC News, BBC Parliament, Five, More 4, S4C, ITV1, ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, ITV4+1. The BBCs and Five are very stable while ITVs were fine but last night there was a lot of break-up. There are also a lot of radio stations but they don't really bother me. The quality is coming in at 100% but signal strength is poor – I don’t have a % only a status bar. When I do a channel test I get the following '6 50.18MHz'. There is no EPG either for any channels. I don’t have a masthead amp.
So what are my options before I go out and spend. Would a masthead amp solve the problem and/or will I have to upgrade the aerial? I also want to upgrade the cables. If I upgrade the aerial I can point old aerial to Mount Leinster for Irish DTT.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Satdog

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 11:35am

Satdog wrote: »

The above was originally posted on the thread "TVs with MPEG4 Decoders" but I think the proper place is here, especially now as I'm looking for some answers. I have satellite so I’m getting most of the channels anyway, I will however have to do something for the mother-in-law.
The Irish DTT are a dead duck, mostly sound - don't how they came in loud and clear originally on a VHF aerial. As regards UK DTT the only channels I'm picking up are BB1, BBC2, BBC3, BBC4, BBC News, BBC Parliament, Five, More 4, S4C, ITV1, ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, ITV4+1. The BBCs and Five are very stable while ITVs were fine but last night there was a lot of break-up. There are also a lot of radio stations but they don't really bother me. The quality is coming in at 100% but signal strength is poor – I don’t have a % only a status bar. When I do a channel test I get the following '6 50.18MHz'. There is no EPG either for any channels. I don’t have a masthead amp.
So what are my options before I go out and spend. Would a masthead amp solve the problem and/or will I have to upgrade the aerial? I also want to upgrade the cables. If I upgrade the aerial I can point old aerial to Mount Leinster for Irish DTT.
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Satdog

Its clear your contract aerial sans masthead isn't good enough: you are receiving the three PSB muxes, but not the COM muxes. ( You won't get one of them because its cochannel with RTE DTT from Mount Leinster.) You need to improve your signal strength:

a) get a modern aerial like the Teles DAT 45 or the Triax Unix 52 or see what the neighbours are using. Consider using a masthead. The signal strength is low because you have a contract aerial: not bad but won't do the distance.

b) If you were originally getting RTE DTT on the TV then a second aerial at Mount Leinster will be handy, but this needs to be carefully integrated into the setup to avoid interfering with Presely.

c) Its surprising the Philips doesn't have an EPG: the modern ones do.

d) Change to modern low-loss satellite quality cables.

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 11:38am

mrdtv wrote: »

Its clear your contract aerial sans masthead isn't good enough: you are receiving the three PSB muxes, but not the COM muxes. ( You won't get one of them because its cochannel with RTE DTT from Mount Leinster.) You need to improve your signal strength:

a) get a modern aerial like the Teles DAT 45 or the Triax Unix 52 or see what the neighbours are using. Consider using a masthead. The signal strength is low because you have a contract aerial: not bad but won't do the distance.

b) If you were originally getting RTE DTT on the TV then a second aerial at Mount Leinster will be handy, but this needs to be carefully integrated into the setup to avoid interfering with Presely.

c) Its surprising the Philips doesn't have an EPG: the modern ones do.

d) Change to modern low-loss satellite quality cables.

I forgot: 650.18Mhz corresponds to UHF Channel 43 (with an + offset), which tells you that this is the BBC PSB Mux 1 transmitted from Preseli. Its identifying where the transmission is originating from and is as expected.

Satdog · 21-09-2009 11:53am

MRDTV,

Thanks for responding so promply, It may be a couple of weeks before I get around to getting this set up but I'll post when I do. The Philips TV supports EPG so I'm not sure why its not functioning - anything to do with the reception? Also I never checked teletext. Must do tonight. Furthermore how do you incorporate Irish and UK DTT?

Thanks again

Satdog

Satdog · 21-09-2009 12:09pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Its clear your contract aerial sans masthead isn't good enough: you are receiving the three PSB muxes, but not the COM muxes. ( You won't get one of them because its cochannel with RTE DTT from Mount Leinster.) You need to improve your signal strength:

a) get a modern aerial like the Teles DAT 45 or the Triax Unix 52 or see what the neighbours are using. Consider using a masthead. The signal strength is low because you have a contract aerial: not bad but won't do the distance.

b) If you were originally getting RTE DTT on the TV then a second aerial at Mount Leinster will be handy, but this needs to be carefully integrated into the setup to avoid interfering with Presely.

c) Its surprising the Philips doesn't have an EPG: the modern ones do.

d) Change to modern low-loss satellite quality cables.

MRDTV

I've done some surfing for the aerials mentioned, what Group do I need to go for?

Thanks

Satdog

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 12:14pm

Satdog wrote: »

MRDTV

I've done some surfing for the aerials mentioned, what Group do I need to go for?

Thanks

Satdog

Probably Group B or wideband. Mount Leinster is Group A and B, Preseli is B. You probably got RTE DTT when you had the Mount Leinster antenna plugged in (even though it was VHF!!), and not when you had the Preseli antenna plugged in. You'll soon become quite expert after Internet research. A good site is www.aerialsandtv.co.uk (may not be the right URL...)

Satdog · 21-09-2009 12:25pm

Satdog wrote: »

MRDTV,

Thanks for responding so promply, It may be a couple of weeks before I get around to getting this set up but I'll post when I do. The Philips TV supports EPG so I'm not sure why its not functioning - anything to do with the reception? Also I never checked teletext. Must do tonight. Furthermore how do you incorporate Irish and UK DTT?

Thanks again

Satdog

Thanks again for promt reply on the aerials. What about above?

mrdtv · 21-09-2009 2:34pm

Satdog wrote: »

Thanks again for promt reply on the aerials. What about above?

You need to either a) diplex two antennas together, which will be messy as Preseli is Group B and Mt Leinster appears to be wideband or b) install the Preseli 'super' antenna wideband and see if Mt Leinster DTT comes off the side (it will be stronger and orientation will not be an issue for local services). I think a step-by-step process is best:

a) Get Preseli working perfectly

b) Get RTE DTT working separately

c) Then understand how to integrate them.

Teletext: UK DSO stations do NOT supply analogue teletext whereas RTE DTT does. You need to be able to decode MHEG5 for UK teletext: if the Philips doesn't support this standard then this is not possible.

irishtoffee · 21-09-2009 5:10pm

Had good reception before the switch off and got one of the freeview boxes today,a philips one and hey presto nothing when i scan for channels?Any ideas?

Antenna · 21-09-2009 6:11pm

mrdtv wrote: »

You need to either a) diplex two antennas together, which will be messy as Preseli is Group B and Mt Leinster appears to be wideband or b) install the Preseli 'super' antenna wideband and see if Mt Leinster DTT comes off the side (it will be stronger and orientation will not be an issue for local services). I think a step-by-step process is best:

if one requires reception of both Irish DTT and UK DTT in Wexford area - the only affordable solution to the potential problems for a householder would be to run two seperate aerial downleads and aerial cabling - one for Irish, one for UK, and use an 'A/B switch' at each STB/receiver to select the required aerial - unless there is such a thing as a MPEG4 receiver that has two aerial inputs?

Just combining aerials of signals of the same group is going to be messy, mainly due to the co-channel issue, and the fact one of the two sources will vary greatly in strength during the year. The Irish Dtt on ch45 may normally be dominant, but at times the second (presely) aerial might pull in enough co-channel signal to cause bad breakup of the Irish DTT mux on Ch 45. The 'Irish' UHF aerial may also pick up distant inland Irish transmitters (either analogue or DTT) that might interfere with UK DTT also depending on the weather. Source of interference incude Carn Hill which uses some of the Presely DTT channels (43,46,50)

marclt · 21-09-2009 6:11pm

irishtoffee wrote: »

Had good reception before the switch off and got one of the freeview boxes today,a philips one and hey presto nothing when i scan for channels?Any ideas?

Hi Toffee, what box did you get there fella? We need to scan manually to see what sort of signal you're getting. How 'good' was analogue, very... crystal?

The box should be directly connected to your aerial - I mean it should be the first thing connected to your aerial, then your tv or freeview box, then vcr into tv. That way it should get the most signal.

Are you even getting blank screens for the Irish dtt service?

With the philips box, go into MENU, SEARCH FOR CHANNELS and Click MANUAL then look for Freequency and move left/right to find Ch.43 (the BBC mux).

In Miscellaneous settings you could enter a local postcode, PM me and I'll give you one. MRDTV, do you know if that helps?

irishtoffee · 21-09-2009 6:18pm

Hi marc got the philips one that you posted the link to.I have the aerial connected and the scart lead and when i do an auto scan i have no signal strength at all.When i did the manual scan it only lasts seconds and finds nothing.My reception was crystal clear in good weather and a bit snowy in bad before the turn off.

Yep did that and nothing.In the frequency it has k43 is that wright?

No mate trying it in bedroom.

marclt · 21-09-2009 6:22pm

Antenna wrote: »

if one requires reception of both Irish DTT and UK DTT in Wexford area - the only affordable solution to the potential problems for a householder would be to run two seperate aerial downleads and aerial cabling - one for Irish, one for UK, and use an 'A/B switch' at each STB/receiver to select the required aerial - unless there is such a thing as a MPEG4 receiver that has two aerial inputs?

Just combining aerials of signals of the same group is going to be messy, mainly due to the co-channel issue, and the fact one of the two sources will vary greatly in strength during the year. The Irish Dtt on ch45 may normally be dominant, but at times the second (presely) aerial might pull in enough co-channel signal to cause bad breakup of the Irish DTT mux on Ch 45. The 'Irish' UHF aerial may also pick up distant inland Irish transmitters (either analogue or DTT) that might interfere with UK DTT also depending on the weather. Source of interference incude Carn Hill which uses some of the Presely DTT channels (43,46,50)

From knowing the area, i used to have a group a aerial pointed at mount leinster which picked up cairn hill causing co-channel on the UK analogues, so the best you can do to minimise this co-channel the better I think.

Irishtoffee,

yeah, K43, K46 and K50 are all the public service channels. So the power these are transmitting at is full power.

are you trying it on the main tv in the house?

irishtoffee · 21-09-2009 8:59pm

Just wanted to say thanks marc and i will get back to you on the other stuff tomorrow.

bmaxi · 21-09-2009 10:09pm

Finally got to test the freeview box on my elderly neighbour's aerial, sad to say it was not a success. Hers is one of the square aerials and is actually still receiving BBC and ITV from Wales, albeit not great reception, maybe the aerial is misaligned.
Anyway, quality fluctuated between 30% and 70% possibly due to strong wind today but I doubt it would be a viable project, certainly with her current setup. Coaxial cables are the old brown ones to so probably been there since the year dot.

irishtoffee · 21-09-2009 10:58pm

Had it working for about an hour and nothing since,would you believe my bbcs and htv are back on through the aerial.Anyway i am just going to get another skybox what i should have done in the first place.

marclt · 21-09-2009 11:28pm

irishtoffee wrote: »

Had it working for about an hour and nothing since,would you believe my bbcs and htv are back on through the aerial.Anyway i am just going to get another skybox what i should have done in the first place.

Sorry to hear that... if ur just looking for the free channels pick up a freesat box.

But it could be the weather conditions... i'm picking up clermont carn on an indoor aerial tonight. That's some distance!

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 9:41am

bmaxi wrote: »

Finally got to test the freeview box on my elderly neighbour's aerial, sad to say it was not a success. Hers is one of the square aerials and is actually still receiving BBC and ITV from Wales, albeit not great reception, maybe the aerial is misaligned.
Anyway, quality fluctuated between 30% and 70% possibly due to strong wind today but I doubt it would be a viable project, certainly with her current setup. Coaxial cables are the old brown ones to so probably been there since the year dot.

If your neighbour has a grid and is still on analogue UK TV then she will be on either Blaen-Plwyf or Arfon. Arfon has no DTT till October and Blaen-Plwyf DTT is low power till its switched over in March 2010, Is the grid vertical or horizontal? Your neighbour should sit tight till analogue Tv shuts down in the UK, then you can try the box again. But a modern installation would probably do the trick. Varying quality means insufficient signal strength.

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 9:45am

irishtoffee wrote: »

Had it working for about an hour and nothing since,would you believe my bbcs and htv are back on through the aerial.Anyway i am just going to get another skybox what i should have done in the first place.

Not from Preseli. There is no analogue TV from there. Did you get Channel 5 analogue regularly before Preseli switched, because if you didn't you are either on another UK transmitter or a deflector. If you go down the satellite route why pay Sky: just get a Freesat box and you will have UK FTA stations without a subscription!

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 10:16am

Antenna wrote: »

if one requires reception of both Irish DTT and UK DTT in Wexford area - the only affordable solution to the potential problems for a householder would be to run two seperate aerial downleads and aerial cabling - one for Irish, one for UK, and use an 'A/B switch' at each STB/receiver to select the required aerial - unless there is such a thing as a MPEG4 receiver that has two aerial inputs?

Just combining aerials of signals of the same group is going to be messy, mainly due to the co-channel issue, and the fact one of the two sources will vary greatly in strength during the year. The Irish Dtt on ch45 may normally be dominant, but at times the second (presely) aerial might pull in enough co-channel signal to cause bad breakup of the Irish DTT mux on Ch 45. The 'Irish' UHF aerial may also pick up distant inland Irish transmitters (either analogue or DTT) that might interfere with UK DTT also depending on the weather. Source of interference incude Carn Hill which uses some of the Presely DTT channels (43,46,50)

There are two other solutions to this problem which is now used in the UK particularly in high power DTT areas:

a) If you are receiving two DTT transmitters using a digital TV , transmitter A is connected to the TV aerial and transmitter B is connected to a cheapo Freeview box which is SCARTed or HDMIed into the TV. No conflicts. Of course you have two remotes but its just like Sky.

b) You can actually diplex DVB-T COFDM signals together because they have different properties from analogue signals. It works in the UK in DSO areas and has been extensively discussed on digitalspy. Of course if you still have analogue TV and are using it may get messed up.

Personally I would:

a) Establish whether I was actually receiving from Preseli by checking with neighbours who have high performance systems.

b) Install a dedicated Preseli system. You may also find you get Mount Leinster RTE DTT off a sidelobe and this works too. ( Again I have seen two high power UK DTT stations working perfectly off one aerial and the angular separation between the transmitters was 272 degrees. The analogue was shocking off the non-aligned transmitter but the DTT is perfect.)

c) If that works you don't need a dedicated Mount Leinster antenna UNLESS the DTT trial service doesn't actually roll-out.

d) If that doesn't work reorientate the old UK antenna to Mount Leinster and see if they can be diplexed together. If not you can use a digital Tv + separate box solution as I posted earlier with two separate aerials

In all of this you need to establish:

a) Which UK transmitter you can use. If you can't get Preseli properly and are getting UK analogue you are on Arfon or Blaen-Plwyf. These are not upgraded.

b) How many TV sets need to be served by the set-up.

c) Carry out a cost-benefit analysis vs a Freesat solution. TVs, LNBs, cable runs, cost of antennas, installation. Then decide.

Having read this thread its clear a lot of people have made Preseli work for them and others have a quite steep learning curve.

This strikes me as a commercial opportunity for local aerial installers and, of course, our dear friends over at $ky!

I looked at a number of areas mentioned and local estate agent pictures: quite a few have impressive modern high gain dual Preseli/Mount Leinster antenna systems. These should work but you need to be alive to the relationship between Preseli COM muxes (not full power till the 30th) and Mount Leinster. As was already noted CCI will continue between Cairn Hill analogue Irish channels and Preseli PSB muxes: if you weren't affected by Cairn Hill in the analogue Preseli days no problem, but if you were that could be problematic.

b)

marclt · 22-09-2009 10:21am

mrdtv wrote: »

Not from Preseli. There is no analogue TV from there. Did you get Channel 5 analogue regularly before Preseli switched, because if you didn't you are either on another UK transmitter or a deflector. If you go down the satellite route why pay Sky: just get a Freesat box and you will have UK FTA stations without a subscription!

No deflectors in wexford town... there was never any need

The atmospheric conditions last night were such that there was alot of long distance reception. I had TV3/TG4 mullaghanish but lost mount leinster for a spell. Similarly, Channel 5 was coming in on the old Preseli frequency with co-channel so it must have been beaming in from Mendip or further afield. Wenvoe was visible on frequencies that had previously been used by Preseli pre dso digital.

Try again today Irishtoffee, you might have better results. And if you are thinking of getting a freesat box, don't go for the cheap bush, lots of faults on it apparently!

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 10:22am

marclt wrote: »

Hi Toffee, what box did you get there fella? We need to scan manually to see what sort of signal you're getting. How 'good' was analogue, very... crystal?

The box should be directly connected to your aerial - I mean it should be the first thing connected to your aerial, then your tv or freeview box, then vcr into tv. That way it should get the most signal.

Are you even getting blank screens for the Irish dtt service?

With the philips box, go into MENU, SEARCH FOR CHANNELS and Click MANUAL then look for Freequency and move left/right to find Ch.43 (the BBC mux).

In Miscellaneous settings you could enter a local postcode, PM me and I'll give you one. MRDTV, do you know if that helps?

Yes. That box will find signals as its very smart and very sensitive. Ditto the Manhattan DTT receiver. I wonder if the signals are from another Welsh transmitter or a deflector (are they still going down in the SE?) which is why there's no return OR the box is faulty: get a replacement. Irish toffee: did you receive analogue Channel 5? If the answer is no you are not on Preseli.

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 10:31am

marclt wrote: »

No deflectors in wexford town... there was never any need

The atmospheric conditions last night were such that there was alot of long distance reception. I had TV3/TG4 mullaghanish but lost mount leinster for a spell. Similarly, Channel 5 was coming in on the old Preseli frequency with co-channel so it must have been beaming in from Mendip or further afield. Wenvoe was visible on frequencies that had previously been used by Preseli pre dso digital.

Try again today Irishtoffee, you might have better results. And if you are thinking of getting a freesat box, don't go for the cheap bush, lots of faults on it apparently!

Humax always for Freesat!

I wonder if Irish toffee is using Blaen-Plwyf or Arfon: some do. It is clear from the thread and several private emails that a lot of people are making Preseli DSO DTT work 'straight-out-of-the-box' in the South-East where they had good analogue. As you know Preseli analogue is also romping into North Devon ( I saw it perfectly at Woody Bay) and parts of the N Cornwall coast so it has an omnidirectional HRP. When I am met with a puzzle like Irishtoffee's I always reach for a set of logical processes to step through.

bothyhead · 22-09-2009 11:31am

marclt wrote: »

The atmospheric conditions last night were such that there was alot of long distance reception. I had TV3/TG4 mullaghanish but lost mount leinster for a spell. Similarly, Channel 5 was coming in on the old Preseli frequency with co-channel so it must have been beaming in from Mendip or further afield. Wenvoe was visible on frequencies that had previously been used by Preseli pre dso digital.

Here in north Wexford, I found the UK DTT reception terrible last night. The quality for CHs 43, 46, and 50 went anywhere from 3% to 95% - in a matter of seconds [I just ordered a new humax box yesterday, so hopefully this was just a temporary thing - fingers x]. Today the quality is more consistently up in the high 90s.

What are the atmospheric conditions that contribute to a poor signal? and how frequently, typically, do these conditions occur? (Winter vs Summer, etc ...)

Many thanks

bmaxi · 22-09-2009 11:56am

mrdtv wrote: »

If your neighbour has a grid and is still on analogue UK TV then she will be on either Blaen-Plwyf or Arfon. Arfon has no DTT till October and Blaen-Plwyf DTT is low power till its switched over in March 2010, Is the grid vertical or horizontal? Your neighbour should sit tight till analogue Tv shuts down in the UK, then you can try the box again. But a modern installation would probably do the trick. Varying quality means insufficient signal strength.

The grid is vertical (longest top to bottom) which appears to be the norm around Courtown. If she was not getting her signal from Preseli why would her analogue have disappeared? The analogue signal she has now is much weaker than before.

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 12:21pm

bmaxi wrote: »

The grid is vertical (longest top to bottom) which appears to be the norm around Courtown. If she was not getting her signal from Preseli why would her analogue have disappeared? The analogue signal she has now is much weaker than before.

Doesn't make sense. Around Courtown they are getting DTT from Preseli with good systems. The weaker analogue will be becoming from Blaen-Plwyf which isn't going high power DTT till March 2010. In a grid antenna its the elements at the front which tell you the polarisation: this one is horizontally polarised:

http://www.dastv.co.uk/images/pht/md/3476_DAS1083.jpg

So if its turned around 90 degrees on this its a vertical grid (which would be for Arfon, not BP or Preseli). Hope this helps.

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 12:27pm

bothyhead wrote: »

Here in north Wexford, I found the UK DTT reception terrible last night. The quality for CHs 43, 46, and 50 went anywhere from 3% to 95% - in a matter of seconds [I just ordered a new humax box yesterday, so hopefully this was just a temporary thing - fingers x]. Today the quality is more consistently up in the high 90s.

What are the atmospheric conditions that contribute to a poor signal? and how frequently, typically, do these conditions occur? (Winter vs Summer, etc ...)

Many thanks

Tropospheric lift conditions: weather dependent. Can occur at certain times in winter (some types of fog) and summer (very settled weather). Stations far away can interfere with transmitters on the same frequency. In analogue TV its the venetian blinds effect and in digital Tv signals can drop out, as they also can on satellite in very heavy rain and snow. The effects don't last long. As Marclt noted yesterday there were lift conditions: quite often happens in late September/early October....

bmaxi · 22-09-2009 12:43pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Doesn't make sense. Around Courtown they are getting DTT from Preseli with good systems. The weaker analogue will be becoming from Blaen-Plwyf which isn't going high power DTT till March 2010. In a grid antenna its the elements at the front which tell you the polarisation: this one is horizontally polarised:

http://www.dastv.co.uk/images/pht/md/3476_DAS1083.jpg

So if its turned around 90 degrees on this its a vertical grid (which would be for Arfon, not BP or Preseli). Hope this helps.

It is as the one in the illustration.

bothyhead · 22-09-2009 12:53pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Tropospheric lift conditions: weather dependent. Can occur at certain times in winter (some types of fog) and summer (very settled weather). Stations far away can interfere with transmitters on the same frequency. In analogue TV its the venetian blinds effect and in digital Tv signals can drop out, as they also can on satellite in very heavy rain and snow. The effects don't last long. As Marclt noted yesterday there were lift conditions: quite often happens in late September/early October....

So it's interference from other transmitters ... I'll Google tropospheric lift conditions for more info. Thanks again.

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 1:09pm

bmaxi wrote: »

It is as the one in the illustration.

Thank you. Grids, alas, have low gain. A good exposition is at www.aerialsandtv.co.uk
Those with the modern high gain antennas will be able to receive Freeview. In the meantime your neighbour will have snowy Blaen-Plwyf until March when it will be turned off too. To make Preseli work properly you need a modern system: you can DIY it if its a bungalow or you are qualified for heights.

mct1 · 22-09-2009 4:47pm

I'll just post some positive feedback here in case it's helpful for any simple souls like me who don't understand all the jargon.

I live on an elevation just west of Wexford town. Previously we had very good analogue UK and Irish TV via a fairly ancient rooftop aerial and 90 pretty good Freeview channels via a Sony DVR+F/V.

BBC2 disappeared first, then I returned from holiday yesterday to find the rest of the UK analogue channels and most of the digital channels gone. This morning I read through this thread, retuned the DVR Freeview as per one of your links, and now we have great reception on 83 digital channels.

I realise I will have to retune again on 30th September. After that I will attempt to connect and retune a second, older Freeview box - in the hope that we can simultaneously watch one channel and record another. I'll report back on that.

Meanwhile, thanks for helping us masses with this complicated switchover. I'll just mention that before we went away (end August) I noticed that the Wexford People had a two page spread on how no-one would be able to get UK channels any more without satellite TV and had dozens of boxed ads for aerial/satellite firms to readers to contact. The following week, there was a small article mentioning Freeview. I, for one, have been happily spreading the word. Cheers!

marclt · 22-09-2009 4:53pm

mct1 wrote: »

The following week, there was a small article mentioning Freeview. I, for one, have been happily spreading the word. Cheers!

Yes, amazing what an email to the journo does! Clearly the first was great for them to generate some advertising sales... At least they put things right.

I think what is really important here is that we can continue to post details of signal strength so that people can monitor when things dip, because the art of tuning a digital receiver is much harder than analogue.

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 4:58pm

mct1 wrote: »

I'll just post some positive feedback here in case it's helpful for any simple souls like me who don't understand all the jargon.

I live on an elevation just west of Wexford town. Previously we had very good analogue UK and Irish TV via a fairly ancient rooftop aerial and 90 pretty good Freeview channels via a Sony DVR+F/V.

BBC2 disappeared first, then I returned from holiday yesterday to find the rest of the UK analogue channels and most of the digital channels gone. This morning I read through this thread, retuned the DVR Freeview as per one of your links, and now we have great reception on 83 digital channels.

I realise I will have to retune again on 30th September. After that I will attempt to connect and retune a second, older Freeview box - in the hope that we can simultaneously watch one channel and record another. I'll report back on that.

Meanwhile, thanks for helping us masses with this complicated switchover. I'll just mention that before we went away (end August) I noticed that the Wexford People had a two page spread on how no-one would be able to get UK channels any more without satellite TV and had dozens of boxed ads for aerial/satellite firms to readers to contact. The following week, there was a small article mentioning Freeview. I, for one, have been happily spreading the word. Cheers!

Excellent, top man. Hope you enjoyed your holiday! Why don't you write an article for the Wexford People?

mrdtv · 22-09-2009 5:08pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Excellent, top man. Hope you enjoyed your holiday! Why don't you write an article for the Wexford People?

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/viewers-options-to-keep-watching-british-channels-1865466.html

Very balanced and written on 19 August 2009!

mct1 · 22-09-2009 6:06pm

mrdtv wrote: »

Very balanced and written on 19 August 2009!

Agreed - that was the second article I mentioned. This was the first from 12th August http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/farewell-to-free-tv-from-uk-1857967.html

As you said, the first article had obviously prompted a few indignant email corrections. We all make mistakes, I know, and fair play to the People for getting it right second time. Let's just hope no one makes money out of folk who don't know what to believe.

Welsh digital switch over-Irish reception questions answered

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