Part of Dublin to Belfast rail line collapses

Bluetonic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

IE claimed they 'fully inspect' the bridge every two years and that this full inspection was on Tuesday last .

So we found them out and now know that 'a full inspection' by IE is not a full inspection at all and that any bridge element that is under water is not inspected .

In line with third party guidelines the sea bed is to be inspected every 4 years, it was last inspected by divers in 2007.

Inspecting the sea bed is NOT part of the full inspection - these aren't Irish Rail guidelines. If you want to find out more listen to the podcast of the Newstalk breakfast show from this morning.

Hungerford

Bluetonic wrote: »

Inspecting the sea bed is NOT part of the full inspection - these aren't Irish Rail guidelines. If you want to find out more listen to the podcast of the Newstalk breakfast show from this morning.

You are Barry Kenny and I claim my five euro! Seriously, though, how can an inspection of a bridge that excludes an examination of its foundations be deemed comprehensive?

opensourceguy

Hungerford wrote: »

You may also want to pass on your video to the RAIU, the rail accident investigation unit. Their contact details are:

Railway Safety Commission,
Trident House,
Blackrock,
County Dublin,
Ireland.

Tel. + 353 1 206 8110

Thanks for the suggestion, the video is published now here:
http://www.opensourcemechanic.com/blog/?p=48

Carawaystick

Mrs Carawaystick got a 33x home today, it took less time to get to Lusk than the train does.....I mean did.

I was obviously way off the mark regarding traffic being brutal on the M1, was this people taking the day off? using alternative routes? or something else?

Bluetonic

Hungerford wrote: »

You are Barry Kenny and I claim my five euro! Seriously, though, how can an inspection of a bridge that excludes an examination of its foundations be deemed comprehensive?

I forgot the official Commuting and Transport policy alright.....Irish Rail bad, express no other opinion

As for your other comment I can't answer that, but I do know that the inspections were within the non Irish Rail written guidelines.

Sponge Bob

Bluetonic wrote: »

I do know that the inspections were within the non Irish Rail written guidelines.

Written by whom ??? Or is it that you mean that IE don't actually write down written guidelines ???

Anyway Barry Kenny lied to everybody when he said a full inspection was carried out last tuesday , the last full inspection was evidently in 2007 .

Hungerford

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Anyway Shane Kenny lied to everybody when he said a full inspection was carried out last tuesday , the last full inspection was evidently in 2007 .

I presume you mean Barry Kenny? I don't think he lied as such, it's that IE's definition of 'full inspection' differs from what we would regard as being one.

There is, however, a fair amount of misinformation, for whatever reason, going out on behalf of IE. The whole business of the bridge being renewed in the 1960s for one: only the deck was renewed then. The piers, as pointed out elsewhere on this thread, date from the 1860s.

AlekSmart

I was obviously way off the mark regarding traffic being brutal on the M1, was this people taking the day off? using alternative routes? or something else?

What Mrs Carawaystick experienced is the new reality of modern post-depression Ireland.

Traffic levels on ALL of the main corridors are down...way down....at all times.
As the financial noose continues to tighten around the workinman`s neck,the fewer remaining workers are commuting less or attempting to access Public Transport now also being reduced or sabotaged by Government Decree.

This lack of Traffic as experienced by Mrs carawaystick is already sending shivers down Noel Dempsey`s back as evidenced by the nice little earner revelation concerning the State (us) making good the revenue shortfalls of the new M3 Toll road when (NOT If) its traffic projections reveal a massive overestimation :cool:

lostexpectation

so it wasn't IRs bridge it was the seabed, are they saying this all happened since tuesday?

Victor

lostexpectation wrote: »

from what?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/packed-train-seconds-from-disaster-in-bridge-collapse-1866930.html

The driver used the safety thing-a-ma-jog to short the track circuit.

murphaph wrote: »

You posted over on RUI that the marina area was dredged about 10 years ago. I find that very interesting and reckon it is certainly at least possible that the dredging has changed water flows in the area enough to start a chatastrophic scouring around the bridge pier(s). Do you have any more details on this dredging?

I'm not privy to the details, but some of it was in the papers at the time - one of the barges sank and was left abandoned for an extended period.

murphaph wrote: »

What qualifies Dr. John Lynch to run Ireland's national transport operator? I have no idea about the man's background.

Politics.

Carawaystick wrote: »

Mrs Carawaystick got a 33x home today, it took less time to get to Lusk than the train does.....I mean did.

Bus didn't need to make any stops.

I was obviously way off the mark regarding traffic being brutal on the M1, was this people taking the day off? using alternative routes? or something else?

I imagine a lot of people worked from home, shared lifts, etc.

opensourceguy

opensourceguy wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestion, the video is published now here:
http://www.opensourcemechanic.com/blog/?p=48

I took the same kids telescope/digital SLR adapter rig down to the same spot (within a few feet) of where I took a photo on 5 October, 2008. This gave me some clearer before and after photos than I could grab off the video.

Run_to_da_hills

According to this article there is still 44 dmu carriages stuck on the northern half of the estuary that can't be used anywhere else. This will mean services would be restricted on other parts of the line. If this happened at night it could have been catastrophic, apart from the possibility of a rail disaster, nearly all of Iarnrod Eireanns DMU rolling stock is housed in Drogheda.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0824/1224253138336.html

chughes

I wonder would the engineers consider putting a cycle path along side the repaired bridge ? I know that a cycle path from Donabate to Malahide has been talked about before but this would seem to be an opportunity to have a serious look at this.

Our man in Havana

There would be a legal minefield of issues. It won't happen.

Run_to_da_hills

chughes wrote: »

I wonder would the engineers consider putting a cycle path along side the repaired bridge ? I know that a cycle path from Donabate to Malahide has been talked about before but this would seem to be an opportunity to have a serious look at this.

Edited: I wonder would the engineers consider putting a cycle path along side the replaced bridge.

I don't think commuters would be confident with just a patch up job on the original structure.

Cool Mo D

If it is the seabed that shifted, then surely a new bridge with deeper foundations will be required?

The estuary was dredged fairly recently, when Malahide Marina was being built about 12-15 years ago the outer estuary was dredged to provide an access. Don't think there was much work done near the viaduct though.

And also, there was for years an old tug of some sort physically leaning against the structure - it was taken away years ago, but I can't find any pics online.

Run_to_da_hills

Despite all the bitching about the port Tunnel being a white elephant, IR and commuters would be fu*ked without it.

chughes

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Edited: I wonder would the engineers consider putting a cycle path along side the replaced bridge.

I don't think commuters would be confident with just a patch up job on the original structure.

Is the issue you have with my post that fact that I used "repaired" instead of "replaced" or do you think the cycleway is a bad idea ?

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't pedestrians use the bridge at Balbriggan beside the railway line ?

lostexpectation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC0BDN_CKo4

sdanseo

That reminds me - they'd better put bloody 750V DART lines on the replacement. Very little else stopping them from extending it north other than that bridge was possibly too narrow for the uprights?

Sponge Bob

sdonn wrote: »

That reminds me - they'd better put bloody 750V DART lines on the replacement. Very little else stopping them from extending it north

<cough> Brent Geese </cough>

It would be a bit of a palaver shall we say .

Hungerford

Victor wrote: »

Politics.

That's the key word that makes me ultra-nervous about the IE board committee appointed to look into a bridges.

Cookie_Monster

Sponge Bob wrote: »

<cough> Brent Geese </cough>

It would be a bit of a palaver shall we say .

Time to bring out the brown envelopes

Morpheus

Ive a fantastic solution LOL
provide shore access from both stations and voila!
Iarnroid Eireann have a ferry service across the estuary

Cookie_Monster

Morphéus wrote: »

Ive a fantastic solution LOL
provide shore access from both stations and voila!
Iarnroid Eireann have a ferry service across the estuary

See construction blueprints on page 3/4 on this thread for that idea...

Carawaystick

sdonn wrote: »

That reminds me - they'd better put bloody 750V DART lines on the replacement. Very little else stopping them from extending it north other than that bridge was possibly too narrow for the uprights?

I'd imagine fifteen hundred Volt dart catenary'd be better - the actual supply level the Darts use. 750V is for the trams....

opensourceguy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

See construction blueprints on page 3/4 on this thread for that idea...

The idea goes back much further than that. The historian P.W. Joyce wrote that the name Donabate comes from "Domhnach-a'-bhaid", the church of the boat", which, according to "The Peninsula of Portrane" by Thomas King Moylan (c) 1960, "refers to the ferry which existed from very ancient times between Malahide and the peninsula."

It was and is once again the most obvious way of taking an 11.8 km journey between Donabate and Malahide and turning it into 0.5 km journey (1km if you do it on the relatively tranquil waters of the upper estuary). I was amazed the first time I paddled across and found that even the local accent seemed slightly different. Those villages really did grow up apart, even when they were occasionally served by IE trains.

sdanseo

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'd imagine fifteen hundred Volt dart catenary'd be better - the actual supply level the Darts use. 750V is for the trams....

Signs in the stations say both 750V and 1500V so i always presumed the 1500V referred to two lines?

Either way, electrifying the northern line and extending it to Navan are the two easiest things IÉ could do with the biggest potential for return, but in typical Irish style they couldn't be arsed. Absolute tripe.

Jonathan

sdonn wrote: »

Signs in the stations say both 750V and 1500V so i always presumed the 1500V referred to two lines?

The PD between two 750V DC wires is 0V.

For a PD of 1500V, one would need to be at +750V, the other at -750V.

ttm

Jonathan wrote: »

The PD between two 750V DC wires is 0V.

For a PD of 1500V, one would need to be at +750V, the other at -750V.

Lets not get out of phase here or we might end up adding up to 1500V after all - sorry off topic and perhaps we shouldn't go any further?