toilet trouble

aob1979

Hi
I'm probably getting a disciplinary next week over what i'm about to share with you. Basically i work in a busy office premises which kindly provides restrooms.a customer came to me this evening saying someone has vomited in the Gents sink. i go down to inspect and the sink is full of all sorts.i ring my superviser to get the green light on calling in our handyman who would have no qualms doing it as a nixer for a few bob. i was told to go down and clean it to which i refused.this went to another line of the hierarchal chain who again told me to clean to which i refused.i feel so degraded over this!does anyone have an opinion on this?i would understand if i worked in the food industry or a pub as this is common occurrence and staff are prepared for the unknown i would imagine however this rarely happens in my line of work.i believe if i said no then they should of respected my stance and acted accordingly .in the end i got my way and called our handyman however im getting a visit by the powers that be next week and im being made to look rebellious.

Keano

Ask them where in your contract does it specify that you have to carry out cleaning duties? Often contracts mention ad-hoc duties but does cleaning someone else vomit count. I would think not.

taram

Where I work certain people have hazard training for things like body fluids, and we have equipment for cleaning and disposing of them safely, did you have such items available to you? Otherwise not really a safe thing for you to do.

Firetrap

Might be worth going down the road of it being a health and safety issue.

aob1979

I was giving a step by step guide over the phone on how to get rid of it( as if me and other staff members didnt know how to do it).a bucket filled with water and kitchen gloves.ridiculous, if i didnt feel so strongly about this i would of used my bare hands and ran the tap water to get rid of it.it was just shocking that 2 senior supervisers would even ask someone to do this and i feel yes my health and safety was breached.its a total disregard on an employee i feel!

Shelflife

I doubt that they will go down the disp route as they wont have a leg to stand on regarding training etc, but you will go into the book as someone who isnt prepared to get their hands dirty (no pun intended).

a dirty job needed doing and you passed the buck, im not saying thats fair but thats the way it will be seen.

Buffman

Are the toilets in anyway your responsibility? Are you expected to clean them normally?
If not, you should have completely ignored it.
Sounds like your company was trying to save a few quid on a cleaner.

x in the city

as the people who interview you would they clean the mess up....

lol

like to see them sack you over that, sue the ba$tards if they do

amdublin

If it was cost cutting thing that they did not want to ring the handyman they should have cleaned it themselves.

What is your job description? Is there any reference to ad hoc/doing anything is management request - "business needs" etc?

But from H&S perspective I don't think it was appropriate.

I admire them for asking you (nothing ventured, nothing gained! ). But I don't think it should be a disciplinary matter for refusing.

aob1979

toilet duties wouldnt be part of my job description however although i haven't looked at my contract i'm sure it says from time to time other duties may be bestowed on you blah blah blah.the day in question i was one of 2 assistant managers and i believe i took the necessary steps in trying to fix a problem without getting my hands dirty.this should of been respected from a health and safety perspective. i could of easily of turned a blind eye on the situation which in fairness probably happens in many establishments. on the day i would ensure there is plenty of toilet roll and soap.thats as much as im prepared to do as im not a cleaner.the superviser would no doubt probably clean it however we are not all programmed in the same way or indeed motivated to go that extra mile.i think they are down during the week so i will keep you posted.

jhegarty

Unless you have been trained in the on correct manner to deal with bodily fluids then they don't have a leg to stand on.

In fact they would be open them to a case if they made you do it , and you got sick.

RangeR

aob1979 wrote: »

office premises which kindly provides restrooms

No kindly about it. It's a legal obligation and the company is obliged to keep them clean.

aob1979 wrote: »

i was told to go down and clean it to which i refused.this went to another line of the hierarchal chain who again told me to clean to which i refused.

aob1979 wrote: »

in the end i got my way and called our handyman

So your supervisors were TELLING you do perform a job outside your normal duties, that they are unwilling to do?

I believe they have no case. As was mentioned earlier, it's a H&S issue. You were given no formal training. You do not know what diseases may lurk in said vomit.

Shelflife

Where does the op mention that the managers were unwilling to do it themselves? i assumed that seeing as the op had to ring them they were not physically on the premises.

being honest its a job i have done on occasion, its not pretty but its hardly life threatening, if i wasnt around and one of my staff refused to clean it and insisted we get a professional cleaner in i wouldnt be too impressed.

theres no disp case to answer but the op hasnt done themselves any favours here.

i think the health and safety issue is being overstated here, if you have kids youll clean up alot worse then that.

aob1979

Well i suffered a few low blows this evening from my superviser.basically along the lines uncapable of assistant managing a busy outlet with them(there over 3yrs) and are now considering moving me to one of their quieter shops.they know i hate travelling so i feel they're just bullying me now over my attitude and the stance i took.i have very little options now to me other than take the punishment.i really just want to quit now after what i heard tonight.a total disregard to an employee and a pure lack of loyalty.they are coming back to me next week.....i could really do with understanding if im entitled to the dole cos it looks as though im being pushed out the door.im married with a kid on the way and the mrs is self employed just barely!!!

The Big Red Button

I have to admit, if it was me I'd just have done it. Seeing as it was a once off and not likely to become one of your regular duties. As regards it being a "health and safety" issue - well, if it was in a sink, it would actually be fairly easy to clean it up well without coming into contact with it. As long as you washed your hands well afterwards you'd be OK.

Personally I just don't see how it would be worth the hassle of refusing. Yeah it's a nasty messy job, but it would've been done in less than two minutes like!

I've cleaned up similar and worse in various jobs over the years, on minimum wage and with no specific training for it, it never did me any harm.

Shelflife

"in the end i got my way "

"i believe i took the necessary steps in trying to fix a problem without getting my hands dirty"

"thats as much as im prepared to do"

"however we are not all programmed in the same way or indeed motivated to go that extra mile"

These are the quotes that management would have picked up on so you can hardly be suprised that they werent impressed.

"a total disregard to an employee and a pure lack of loyalty"
"i feel they're just bullying me now over my attitude and the stance i took"

They are not bullying you, a minor situation arose and you raised a big red flag over it with look at me written on it, the way mgmt see it someone barfed in the toilet you were asked to clean it up and you made a big song and dance about it and refused to do it.

its not rocket science youre an assistant manager and you couldnt cope with a bit of puke that wouldnt impress me.

you brought attention to yourself in the middle of the worst recession of your life by refusing to go slightly beyond the call of duty and now youre complaining that they are not happy with you.

you reap what you sow aob1979.

geuro

+1. Get on with it.

cruizer101

Given that you are an assistant manager I might well have just taken responsibilty and cleaned it up.

However, I still don't think you are under obligation to clean it up and have every right to refuse it.

Also might seem strange but in judging wheter or not I would have cleaned it up I want to know whose it was, what it was like and how much. For example if it was just a little bit from a kid I'd clean up happily enough. But if some drugged up homeless person had puked their guts I would probably refuse.

With regards to dole if you quit you can't claim for I think its 6 months.

Penn

cruizer101 wrote: »

With regards to dole if you quit you can't claim for I think its 6 months.

I thought it was 9 weeks?

Elessar

If your job description has nothing to do with cleaning (despite the "other duties from time to time" clause) and you have received no training on the use of personal protective equipment, you were right not to go near the puke. I work with bodily fluids including vomit and blood on an almost weekly basis and as part of my qualification, there is very specific training on what to use to protect yourself. It's even part of an exam.

I would have a talk with your union rep, or get some legal advice. According to the health and safety authority, employees must be "specifically informed of the risk for which PPE is provided" and "must be properly instructed and trained in it's use, using demonstrations if appropriate". A phone call saying "the gloves are over there" is not good enough.

I would say you have a very good case here.

Shelflife

A Very good case for what exactly? the employer hasnt done anything wrong. they have spoken to the op and informed him that they are not happy with his performance and that they dont believe that a busy store suits him. so they are moving him to a quiter store.

I dont think that anyone is suggesting that the op should on a regular basis slop out the toilet but sometimes there are****ty jobs that need doing. if everyone was to adapt a work to rule attitude there would be no work done.

kcools

+1 and if you have a kid on the way it might have been good practice!

Elessar

Shelflife wrote: »

A Very good case for what exactly? the employer hasnt done anything wrong. they have spoken to the op and informed him that they are not happy with his performance and that they dont believe that a busy store suits him. so they are moving him to a quiter store.

I dont think that anyone is suggesting that the op should on a regular basis slop out the toilet but sometimes there are****ty jobs that need doing. if everyone was to adapt a work to rule attitude there would be no work done.

A good case to fight his corner and win. They have indeed done something wrong. He has never been trained to do what they asked him, nor has he received training on the use of PPE. If he mopped up the vomit and got sick as a result, who's fault would it be? The HSA would love to hear about that.

leeroybrown

I find that people on this board seem to forget that an awful lot of people are in a workplace where there aren't full time cleaning staff, where there are no unions to go crying to and where managerial employees are occasionally expected to do things that aren't in their job description. Refusing (particularly the second time) was always going to cause problems in this situation regardless of the health and safety issues that people will mention.

mood

If the mess was anything other than body fluid I would agree with just doing it to keep the peace. But it is a health and safety issue. God know what you could catch and pass on. Even if staff are not trained to deal with this there should be some guidelines in place to follow and safety equipment to use.

Explain you refused for health and safety reasons and suggest training or guideline to be put in place so then staff would be safe etc.

aob1979

Moving me to another location is not the answer.preventative measures should be put in place where an incident like this doesn't occur again.this was not a customer ill doing as im sure they would clean it themselves.what was left in the sink was solids.i believe ive been a good employee to the company.ive been there over 3 years and nothing has ever been questioned about my abilities until the low blows went in lastnight.im a hard working employee perfectly capable of my position however i just coudnt physically do this job bestowed on me.thats not to say i havent cleaned puke on the premises.i have we have a smokers yard and i cleaned it when puke was there.its alot easier throwing a bucket of water out there then trying aim it in a sink.i feel totally victimised and blacklisted over this and the stance the employer has taken against me over my view.i would like to thank all who have shared their comments and views.i'm just waiting for next weeks outcome and whats in store for me.

Mrs OBumble

TBH, the OP was given a reasonable amount of instruction for the level of risk that this "bio-hazard" posed. If the OP is bright enough to be an "assistant manager", then we can assume they are bright enough to be able to put gloves on and wash vomit down a sink with disinfectant+water from a bucket.

OP, you said somewhere above that if the supervisor has been on site, you believe they would have done it themselves. This makes me think that attitude-wise, you're a bad fit for the company anyway. (You think that being an "assistant manager" is something special and that you shouldn't be asked to lower yourself to jobs that the "low-lifes" (my words for it) do. The company clearly doesn't see it that way). You'll probably find that your performance over this issue was distinctly career-limiting, although it might have been that this issue was just a good way to bring up some issues that management had with you anyway.

Oh- and this thread is a great example of why we need foreign nationals in Ireland: I cannot imagine any of us getting so hoity-toity about such a simple request!

kravmaga

@ aob1979

just had a read over all points raised.

i think on hindsight you should have cleaned out the sink as you have upset the apple cart , ruffled a few feathers , your line manager has obviously formed a different opinion of you, has influence with senior ops manager etc etc.

the reason they are moving you to a quieter store is to p1ss you off, hoping you will leave the company

i worked in retail as an assistant manager in the late 1980's early 1990's and the hours worked were 70+ per week, i can remember being asked to empty bins also which i did, well i was a young lad of 20yrs and just got on with it

i would not make an issue out of this with management, tell them you were having an off day due to family issues and you want to put it behind you and move forward

let me know how you get on dude

doolox

I once worked for a large multinational and we were made to sweep the floor at the end of each shift.
The less well qualified support and office staff weren't under a similar obligation although few of them had 3rd level qualifications like all the techs and a lot of the ops on the floor. Eventually we got a new supervisor for the techs and things improved, actually getting to do the work for which we were trained and qualified. The odd time the old supervisor would order us to do things like looking for missing stock, sweeping the floor etc, the crap work nobody else wanted to do but the new supervisor would intervene and put us on technical work saying anything else was a waste of technical resources.
Funny thing is they never managed to persuade the office staff to do this type of work, we were too soft............
It wasn't the work that upset me at the time but the different treatment dished out to different people just because they were soft enough to put up with it.

mikemac

You are an assistant manager, get on it with.

Well too late now