Our Tragic Rockstars

D.Q

phil lynott

john bonham

steve clark

kurt cobain

jimi hendrix

keith moon

bon scott

hillel slovak

Layne Staley

The above list includes names from some of the most popular rock n roll bands of all time. Led Zeppelin, Thin Lizzy, AcDc, Nirvana, RHCP.

As Im sure most of you know, all of the above are also, very dead. And as I'm sure most of you also know, their deaths were caused by alcohol and drug abuse.

I am aware that alcohol and drugs are part of the excess that comes hand in hand with being a rockstar most of the time. And people are quick to call it a tragedy etc.

I'm not sure I agree. If some random junkie shoots up, goes too far and dies of an accidental overdose, it isnt "tragic". In fact its the opposite, people are very quick to sneer "typical". It happens all the time.

Personally, I dont buy the whole "tragic rockstar" drivel that seems to come around with every anniversary of these wasted lives.

The regular drug addicts and alcoholics we see on a day to day basis in every large city in the world dont arouse such sympathy, so what difference does the fact you can make music with an instrument make?

damonjewel

No

Totally disagree, a life lost whoever it is to addiction\overdose is tragic, the tragedy is just more acute when the person is a talented rockstar.

Creature

Any time a talented person whose death comes as a great loss to people is tragic IMO. I don't really see what alcohol/drug abuse has to do with it. "Some random junkie" doesn't bring joy/happiness to people's lives through their music (or lack thereof) so obviously people aren't going to react in the same way.

ride-the-spiral

its tragic that this is a life that people aspire to, and this is what comes of it.

D.Q

Creature wrote: »

Any time a talented person whose death comes as a great loss to people is tragic IMO. I don't really see what alcohol/drug abuse has to do with it. "Some random junkie" doesn't bring joy/happiness to people's lives through their music (or lack thereof) so obviously people aren't going to react in the same way.

some random junkie could bring happiness to his friends/families etc.

music shouldnt be an excuse.

Creature

Well then its a tragedy for his/her families. Not for me though.

D.Q

so youre saying, and correct me if I'm wrong.

someone dies of an overdose, isnt a famous musician- Not a tragedy.

someone dies of an overdose, who is a famous musician- Tragedy.

nevermind the lack of respect they are showing to us as fans by destroying themselves as they do.

Otis Driftwood

Any life that ends because of an OD is a waste,whether the person is famous or not.

BTW,Kurt Cobain topped himself with a shotgun.

D.Q

nedtheshed wrote: »

BTW,Kurt Cobain topped himself with a shotgun.

TECHNICALLY, according to heavier than heaven he officially died before, of a heroin overdose.

but the drugs helped towards the shotgun suicide I'm sure.

Creature

DieselQueen wrote: »

so youre saying, and correct me if I'm wrong.

someone dies of an overdose, isnt a famous musician- Not a tragedy.

someone dies of an overdose, who is a famous musician- Tragedy.

nevermind the lack of respect they are showing to us as fans by destroying themselves as they do.

Yes thats essentially what I'm saying.

I love Nine Inch Nails music. If Trent Reznor died it would be a great loss as he would never get to make anymore music. So yes it would be pretty tragic. I don't see whats so hard to understand about this.

mike65

Is this a thread built around trivial semantics?

adox

No

The answer is so obvious I`m surprised it was asked.

evad_lhorg

No

I hate junkies. It is disgusting and a horrible way to live. But I would never wish it upon anyone and it is tragic they go down that route. unfortunately it gets to a point where they cant stop and cant help themselves.

D.Q

adox wrote: »

The answer is so obvious I`m surprised it was asked.

how is it obvious?

i just dont understand. It seems pathetic to me to excuse someone of something because they play music. Why should celebrity status change anything?

D.Q

Creature wrote: »

Yes thats essentially what I'm saying.

I love Nine Inch Nails music. If Trent Reznor died it would be a great loss as he would never get to make anymore music. So yes it would be pretty tragic. I don't see whats so hard to understand about this.

even if he died of an overdose? showing complete disregard for fans such as yourself who have actually paid for his drugs.

robby^5

No

OP doesnt understand drug addiction and has clearly put rockstars on a huge pedestal. You know they are people too, with the same weaknesses as any of the "random junkies"* in the world.

As it stands all these people contributed an plethora of amazing music that will be around and appreciated for a very long time, so forgive us if we wish to celebrate their achievements rather than their failures. I'd hate to think you'd feel the same way if someone you knew personally became an addict and died of drug abuse.

*people

RealEstateKing

is thousands of years old. The idea that a person who is out of it on drugs is experiencing life in some deeper, more real more 'on-the-edge" way than a sober person.

It is present in the idea of Shamans in some cultures, who take heroic doses of drugs and then impart whatever spiritual wisdom they gain by so doing to the regular people. It can also be seen in the Sadhus in India: Spiritual wise men outside the contstraints of normal society , who are out of it on drugs and supposedly see the world on a more elemental level than us everyday working stiffs.

In the Romantic Era, people like Blake "The road through excess leads to the palace of wisdom" , Shelley, Keats, and later Baudelaire, on to Aleister Crowley and then the whole explosion of the idea in the 60's with Hendrix, Lennon, Joplin and whoever else you care to mention.

The idea is partially that a person out of it on drugs is seeing life from an angle more interesting than us ordinary Joe Soaps who keep the world going: An idea that is present in most religions: Preists and monks for example, are more 'spritual', precisely because they dont have to partake in the mundane everyday things that the rest of us do: Working , having families and relationships and so on.

On top of this , in the modernist Era, people begain to be obsessed with the idea that art was an expression of an individual's mental state and experience of the world, and thus we became fascinated by the idea of the "Tragic Artist" , a guy who is transcendentally miserable and ****ed up, and hence is more of a 'True' artist than anyone else.

Think of Van Gogh and his severed ear (Or Richie Manic and his "4 Real"). We take these pretty stupid acts as badges of authenticity: Van Gogh or Richie must really 'mean it' , to do something like that to themselves. Kurt's lyrics really were authentic, cause he blew off his head with a shotgun, and so on. It is a facile connection we have made between this sort of activity and art. If Van Gogh had been a scientist instead of a painter, him cutting his ear off wouldn't have been seen as a sign of genius. Why is that?

And on to the present day, where we have reached the point where Pete Doherty is actually more famous for drugs than he is for music. I know all about Pete Doherty from the media: His various Rehab problems, the times he was caught snorting coke with Kate Moss and so on, but Ive never actually heard a note of his music. Marketing and media companies have actually taken the idea of the drugged out genius and made the 'drugged' part more important than the genuis part.

In short: Its a pile of ****. Genius of whatever kind has got **** all to do with alcohol/drugs, and is quite regularly destroyed/wasted by them. And it is not a movie, its not tragic and sad, there isn't a soaring of strings when it happens: Its just another kid taking too much of a chemical until his heart stops. Or on a more everyday level, its that mate of yours who is always banging on about being a writer or an artist, but never gets wround to creating anything cause he's always blathering on about it in the pub. Not deep or tragic, just ****e.

D.Q

robby^5 wrote: »

OP doesnt understand drug addiction and has clearly put rockstars on a huge pedestal. You know they are people too, with the same weaknesses as any of the "random junkies"* in the world.

As it stands all these people contributed an plethora of amazing music that will be around and appreciated for a very long time, so forgive us if we wish to celebrate their achievements rather than their failures. I'd hate to think you'd feel the same way if someone you knew personally became an addict and died of drug abuse.

*people

I would like to think I do understand drug addiction. And I think it is you who doesnt understand my point.

How have I put rockstars on any sort of pedestal? I am saying that I dont think it should be regarded as any more tragic when a rockstar dies.

It is people who blindly ignore the facts in favour of the music who are elevating these rockstars on to a pedestal.

can you honestly say that you would be just as upset by someone who wasnt famous dying of a drug overdose?

and i dont buy into the whole "they have reached me with their music" crap thats rolled out. These people don't care about you. There isn't a relationship there.

Max Power1

Not tragic. Self-inflicted.

D.Q

Max Power1 wrote: »

Not tragic. Self-inflicted.

that would be my setiments exactly.

although in a much more efficient manner.:o

robby^5

No

DieselQueen wrote: »

I would like to think I do understand drug addiction. And I think it is you who doesnt understand my point.

How have I put rockstars on any sort of pedestal? I am saying that I dont think it should be regarded as any more tragic when a rockstar dies.

Well for one you said that a rockstar who dies of an overdose is disregarding their fans. So you actually expect these people to put their fans before their own lives? Yes deciding to take hard drugs is not the best idea in the world, but to expect a rockstar to consider the feelings of people he doesnt know, and as you say people with whom they have no relationship, is ridiculous.

Now as for why it is more tragic when a rockstar dies? Well I think you're not seeing things clearly in this regard.

No one is measuring how tragic a death is compared to another death, it's just that when you take say a random heroin addict from Seattle and Layne Staley, the reason I care more about Layne Staleys death is because his music has impacted my life and I miss his presence in the music world. It is also a fact that his death impacts many more people than a person who is not famous, his fans. This may not be true for you and you may not care if your favourite musician died, but it is true for a lot of people.

DieselQueen wrote: »

It is people who blindly ignore the facts in favour of the music who are elevating these rockstars on to a pedestal.

So really I should hate Metallica because James Hetfield abused alcohol, I should hate Nirvana and Alice in Chains because Kurt Cobain and Layne Staley were heroin addicts? Right?

Otherwise I'm ignoring the facts in favour of the music and I wouldn't want to promote such disgusting behaviour would I, I'd be putting them up on a pedestal and saying it's ok for you to act this way so long as you make good music.

So basically we can only like rockstars if they adhere to a hypothetical set of standards that we have created. But I understand that a lot of the time drug addiction and alcoholism is extremely hard for people to fight, it is a choice at first but it becomes necessary... so I don't hold it against them. Having read Layne Staleys final interview, you get a real insight into what his life was like... it was not pretty and I genuinely felt sorry for the guy, he had it rough in life... just like a lot of normal lay people do too.

DieselQueen wrote: »

can you honestly say that you would be just as upset by someone who wasnt famous dying of a drug overdose?

This is a ridiculous question and actually quite insulting. Of course I would, If I knew them... that's not me saying I knew any of these rockstars but they created something which brought me immense pleasure and impacted my life in a purely positive way. I didn't need to know them personally to be affected by them in this way, and a lot of the time these people wear their hearts on their sleeve when it comes to the music they create.

Bottom line is, I feel compassion for these people because I loved the music they created, it has brought immense happiness to my life and will continue to do so for many years to come. And thats all I have to say on the matter.

GhostInTheRuins

No

Why are the poll results hidden?

GrizzlyMan

No

Without a doubt the most tragic in my personal opinion are:

Quorthon - Bathory
Valfar - Windir
Euronymous - Mayhem
DimeBag - Pantera

None of which I might add were self inflicted or drug related!!!!

anti-venom

damonjewel wrote: »

Totally disagree, a life lost whoever it is to addiction\overdose is tragic, the tragedy is just more acute when the person is a talented rockstar.

The death of a talented 'rockstar' is more tragic than, for example, the death of a talented nurse or of a talented journalist?

damonjewel

No

anti-venom wrote: »

The death of a talented 'rockstar' is more tragic than, for example, the death of a talented nurse or of a talented journalist?

Of course it isn't, its just more acute because the Rockstar would have had a wider public profile.

Max Power1

GrizzlyMan wrote: »

Without a doubt the most tragic in my personal opinion are:

Quorthon - Bathory
Valfar - Windir
Euronymous - Mayhem
DimeBag - Pantera

None of which I might add were self inflicted or drug related!!!!

while i would agree with the above, i think the OPs point was specific to drug/alcohol related deaths.

brendansmith

DieselQueen wrote: »

TECHNICALLY, according to heavier than heaven he officially died before, of a heroin overdose.

but the drugs helped towards the shotgun suicide I'm sure.

You only die once.

D.Q

you only live once! he was officially dead, as was slash iirc.

Acacia

I don't know if it's 'tragic', but it is sad. I suppose famous people's deaths will always arouse much more sympathy because, well, they're famous. You also get a gruesome sort of industry building up around famous person's death, especially if's mysterious, like Kurt Cobain's. You get special anniversary issues of magazines, 'exposing' books, and plenty of music material to re-hash and re-release every year.

I guess since musicans reveal themselves so much through their music, everybody feels like they sort of know them in a way. Maybe that's why they latch onto their deaths so much, or morbidly read into their lyrics and try to find out what was 'going on in their mind'.

So the short answer is their deaths aren't any more tragic than any other person's but with their fame , talent, etc, people will blow the whole thing up into epic proportions.

Karl Hungus

No

Quite honestly, people who turn to drugs, especially the seriously nasty ones, are often very tragic cases. People might not have a lot of sympathy for those who die from drug overdoses and similar, but I do think it can be equally as tragic as someone who's death is not self-inflicted. So while the cause of death may indeed be self-inflicted, the reasons people turn to drugs may not be.

I know a fellow who's been on and off heroin as long as I've known him, and sometimes the guy is terrifying to look at, to see the results of that drug on the human body in person is really very scary. Now, he's a great guy, and it's truly sad to see the drugs eating away at someone like that. People might say that it is self inflicted, yes, but once it gets hold of someone, it can be nearly impossible for them to stop. It's quite chilling to hear from your friend's mouth that the heroin is probably going to kill them, but he just can't stop. I think it is extremely tragic.

robby^5

No

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I know a fellow who's been on and off heroin as long as I've known him, and sometimes the guy is terrifying to look at, to see the results of that drug on the human body in person is really very scary. Now, he's a great guy, and it's truly sad to see the drugs eating away at someone like that. People might say that it is self inflicted, yes, but once it gets hold of someone, it can be nearly impossible for them to stop. It's quite chilling to hear from your friend's mouth that the heroin is probably going to kill them, but he just can't stop. I think it is extremely tragic.

Damn that is almost identical to what Layne Staley said in his final interview. It must be absolutely horrible to be in that position, knowing it's going to kill you and not being able to stop.

Layne Staley wrote:

"This f---ing drug use is like the insulin a diabetic needs to survive," he said. "I'm not using drugs to get high like many people think. I know I made a big mistake when I started using this sh--. It's a very difficult thing to explain. My liver is not functioning and I'm throwing up all the time and sh---ing my pants. The pain is more than you can handle. It's the worst pain in the world. Dope sick hurts the entire body." ... "I know I'm near death"