Joseph Moshe - Arrested in LA by FBI for Going Public about Vaccine

King Mob

gnisirpu wrote: »

they dont look that disimilar, look at these guys, it was LA after all.

Right....

So now we're only going on similar names and presuming that he had a hair transplant.

Have we any solid evidence at all that these two guys are the same person?

King Mob

2Scoops wrote: »

One is Joseph Moshe, the other is Mosche (first name) Bar-Joseph (surname). Two entirely different people, as if the photographs weren't evidence enough.

No both thier last names are Moshe.
http://www.agri.gov.il/people/856.aspx

It's listing them last name first.

Edit: scratch that you're right.
His last name is in fact Bar Joseph.

2Scoops

The names are completely different!! Joseph Moshe Vs. Moshe Bar-Joseph. And let's not forget that they look completely different, one is clearly 20 years older than the other, as well as being on the other side of the planet!

2Scoops

King Mob wrote: »

It's listing them last name first.

It's not.

6th

gnisirpu wrote: »

And how exactly can a lab created virus give immunity to a naturally occuring virus?, surely the way viruses and vaccines work the vaccine would only give immunity to the lab created virus, or does it work on all viruses?, I'm confused by this.

gnisirpu wrote: »

they dont look that disimilar, look at these guys, it was LA after all.

Unamusing troll.

King Mob

2Scoops wrote: »

It's not.

Yea only realised after I posted
See above.

The main list has them last name first, but switches it for their profile.

Nehaxak

King Mob wrote: »

Being relaxed gives you more hair and changes it's colour?

Strangest thing that, the ability for hair to grow.
Also, hair die maybe ?

They don't look that similar at all.

Nose, eyes, eyebrows, cheeks, facail structure and shape (with a little more weight put on in the newer picture to the left), hairline, forehead - all look the same imo.

They only thing similar is their name but even that's a miss cause one is Bar-Joseph and the other is just Joseph.

Funny thing that, my second name is also spelt different in my home country.

You realise the picture on the right was taken before the arrest right?

That would be the reason why I mentioned he looked more relaxed and rested, yes.

King Mob

Nehaxak wrote: »

Strangest thing that, the ability for hair to grow.
Also, hair die maybe ?

People don't tend to gorw more hair as they grow older.

Nehaxak wrote: »

Nose, eyes, eyebrows, cheeks, facail structure and shape (with a little more weight put on in the newer picture to the left), hairline, forehead - all look the same imo.

Nope not seeing it.
Nose is much wider and flat on the right picture.
His eyes seem much smaller and further part and his hairline is much further back.
On the left his fore head sticks out a little more and has a more well defined jaw.

Over all the guy on the right seems a lot rounder and softer than on the left.
And the dude on the right looks to have more weight than the dude on the left.

Nehaxak wrote: »

Funny thing that, my second name is also spelt different in my home country.

As has been pointed out by 2Scoops the dude on the right is Moshe Bar-Joseph, the one on the left is Joseph Moshe.

They have completely different names.

Nehaxak wrote: »

That would be the reason why I mentioned he looked more relaxed and rested, yes.

So what was all that stuff about "resigning himself to be killed"?

Nehaxak

King Mob wrote: »

People don't tend to gorw more hair as they grow older.

:rolleyes: He's far from a hippy in the pic on the left now really, it's about a years worth of groomed growth at that age probably.

So what was all that stuff about "resigning himself to be killed"?

Oh come on, do you ever even read peoples posts before you jump on them ?

Here, please, let me spell in out to you again with quotes and interjected edits to make it easier...

They do actually. The pic on the right gives the impression of a more relaxed, rested person when the picture was taken and the one on the left shows a distressed/scared and tired person who is struggling to stop being overcome by adrenalin. Otherwise, apart from the state of mind at the time both pictures were taken, it is the same person in both pictures. IMHO anyway.

IN REGARDS TO THE FOLLOWING LET ME MAKE IT QUITE CLEAR THAT I WAS AIMING THESE COMMENTS TOWARD THE ACTUAL STORY ITSELF AND ALSO TO EXPLANING HIS FACIAL COMPOSURE IN THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT, THAT'S THE LEFT, NOT THE RIGHT PICTURE, THE LEFT PICTURE...

My guess is that he had resigned himself to the thought he was going to be killed, so just remained calm and let things run the course.

Could point either toward a highly delussional state of mind or on the other hand that he's had some professional training of one sort or another in his life (military or otherwise) to deal with situations like he was in.

God almighty...:rolleyes:

King Mob

Nehaxak wrote: »

:rolleyes: He's far from a hippy in the pic on the left now really, it's about a years worth of groomed growth at that age probably.

But he has considerably less hair on the right and I don't think anyone shaves it that way.

Oh and there's the fact they have completely different faces as well.

Nehaxak wrote: »

Oh come on, do you ever even read peoples posts before you jump on them ?

Here, please, let me spell in out to you again with quotes and interjected edits to make it easier...



IN REGARDS TO THE FOLLOWING LET ME MAKE IT QUITE CLEAR THAT I WAS AIMING THESE COMMENTS TOWARD THE ACTUAL STORY ITSELF AND ALSO TO EXPLANING HIS FACIAL COMPOSURE IN THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT, THAT'S THE LEFT, NOT THE RIGHT PICTURE, THE LEFT PICTURE...



God almighty...:rolleyes:

Ok, I misread your post.
Chill out.


Now, how do you respond to the fact that these men don't actually share the same name?

Duiske

bonkey wrote: »

I think you've picked something up wrong somewhere along the line.

This particular strain of Swine Flu is a new strain. Swine flu as a general classification is not new.

So its incorrect to say that swin flu is "entirely new". This particular pandemic strain is new....but there are a myriad strains already in existence, and given the mutability of influenza in general, its pretty certain that there will be a myriad more.

Just to back this up, some commercials from the US (1976).

macshadow

Joseph Moshe is alleged to have made a threat to the white house, does anyone know what the threat was and where and to whom the threat was made?

squod

bonkey wrote: »

I think you've picked something up wrong somewhere along the line.

This particular strain of Swine Flu is a new strain. Swine flu as a general classification is not new.

So its incorrect to say that swin flu is "entirely new". This particular pandemic strain is new....but there are a myriad strains already in existence, and given the mutability of influenza in general, its pretty certain that there will be a myriad more.

The research was also about a strain of swine flu...a genetically engineered one.

There is no evidence (nor, I would argue, reason) to suggest that these two strains are one and the same, any more then there is to suggest that these guys paper somehow indicates that the 1918 Spanish Flu (another strain of Swine Flu, incidentally) was also genetically engineered, and that it took 80 years for the genetic engineering to come to light.

Are we discussing the probability of the swine flu being man made here?

mysterious

squod wrote: »

Are we discussing the probability of the swine flu being man made here?

Most people i know are willing to believe the vaccine and flu was created in same lab.


I don't see why not. I mean if we can get millions around the world to react like this, it's perfect mind control and mass fear materialisation hypergame. Roll the dice is the starting point. The pawns are then forced to make a move or stay on thier spot. Thats how I see it.

humanji

macshadow wrote: »

Joseph Moshe is alleged to have made a threat to the white house, does anyone know what the threat was and where and to whom the threat was made?

He allegedly made a threat to bomb the White House. When spotted by the police, he drove off to a federal building and the cops seemed to be expecting another Oklahoma bombing.

Son Of A Vidic

Is reality stranger than fiction? or is it the other way around? After reading some of this stuff, I'm suddenly glad I refused the Swine Flu vaccine. Will we have an ''I am Legend'' film scenario with this? Crap! I even have a female German Shepherd.

bonkey

squod wrote: »

Are we discussing the probability of the swine flu being man made here?

I was pointing out a logical non sequtor, which appeared to be based on a simple lack of understanding regarding flu strains.

So no, I wasn't discussing any probability.

macshadow

humanji wrote: »

He allegedly made a threat to bomb the White House. When spotted by the police, he drove off to a federal building and the cops seemed to be expecting another Oklahoma bombing.

But where is the evidence that he did actually make a threat to bomb the white house?
It has been reported that he gave advance warning of what is now unfolding in the Ukraine, why is it most people find it more believable that he made a threat to bomb the white house?
Is he physic, regardless of which Joseph Moshe he actually is?

bonkey

macshadow wrote: »

But where is the evidence that he did actually make a threat to bomb the white house?

It has been reported that he gave advance warning of what is now unfolding in the Ukraine, why is it most people find it more believable that he made a threat to bomb the white house?

This thread was started back in August.

Back then, as can be seen in the first two posts, there were two claims circulating:

1) He allegedly said Baxter were going to do something to their swine-flu vaccine
2) He allegedly made threats regarding the White House.

Note...his call to the original show wasn't aired, and wasn't recorded. In effect, both claims rely on second-hand recounting.

Roll on to November. Now we're told that he predicted what is happening Ukraine, or that he allegedly made threats regarding the White House.

It seems to me that one of the two claims has remained constant over hte past 4 months, and one has changed significantly.

Is he physic

If someone can show me a report predating the outbreak of events in Ukraine, where Moshe is attributed with saying that this woul dhappen, I'll give that serious consideration.

So far, all I've been able to find is people saying after the fact that this is what Moshe predicted...that he explicitly mentioned Baxter's Ukrainian lab (which, as far as I can determine, doesn't exist), and that his claim wasn't about the vaccine but about a new, engineered strain, or that it was about the vaccine, and that somehow things leaked (which isn't what he predicted), or something else. But back in August, it was all about how Baxter were building something into the vaccine.

So seriously...if someone could supply me a link, with a verifiable date of August or September, attributing to Moshe warnings about Ukraine....I'd be really interested, because otherwise it all smacks a bit of retrofitting.

squod

mysterious wrote: »

Most people i know are willing to believe the vaccine and flu was created in same lab.


I don't see why not. I mean if we can get millions around the world to react like this, it's perfect mind control and mass fear materialisation hypergame. Roll the dice is the starting point. The pawns are then forced to make a move or stay on thier spot. Thats how I see it.

Have you read my posts over here?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63140842&postcount=65

And an official of the World Health Organization’s European operation said the body is closely monitoring the investigation into the events that took place at Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau, Austria..........The contaminated product, a mix of H3N2 seasonal flu viruses and unlabelled H5N1 viruses, was supplied to an Austrian research company. The Austrian firm, Avir Green Hills Biotechnology, then sent portions of it to sub-contractors in the Czech Republic, Slovenia and Germany...........On Friday, the company’s director of global bioscience communications confirmed what scientists have suspected.
“It was live,” Christopher Bona said in an email.


Toronto Sun

King Mob

bonkey wrote: »

So seriously...if someone could supply me a link, with a verifiable date of August or September, attributing to Moshe warnings about Ukraine....I'd be really interested, because otherwise it all smacks a bit of retrofitting.

I asked the same question and got this:

EXODUS251022 wrote: »

POST#3

From this link above http://pimpinturtle.com/2009/08/21/the-strange-case-of-joseph-moshe.aspx

The information is this: The ******* is being manufactured in Ukraine. It is not a ******* at all, but rather an engineered genetically mutated bio-weapon meant to cause sickness and death. Moshe informed the White House he intended to go public with this information. When he became aware that the FBI was about to detain him, he packed some belongings in his car and set out for the Israeli consulate, located in close proximity to the federal building where the standoff took place. FBI pursuit kept him from reaching his destination.

From this site (which seems to be the same copy pasta article) it says this info was from a internet forum.

According to a recent post in the forums of GodlikeProductions.com The suspect taken into custody was one Joseph Moshe, heres an excerpt from the thread as written by HL SHANCKEN
User ID: 574264
8/15/2009 11:37 PM.

Further more it also say that that post was getting info from else were.

The information comes from one of my confidential sources. I have reason to believe it is accurate. If I receive more information I will post it.

So the fact is neither Moshe didn't say anything about the Ukraine.
Nor did anyone predict any outbreak of a virus.

A anonymous source quoting another anonymous source claimed was that an unnamed vaccine that's produced in the Ukraine is in fact a bioweapon.
A very different thing that's being claimed now.

macshadow

bonkey, there is link to a report dated 21 august in the "pneunomic plague in Ukraine" thread, post number 2. It says Moshe wanted to give evidence to a states attorney regarding Baxter's Ukrainian lab producing a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine.

bonkey

Thanks. I'll see its an audio report, so it'll have to wait till this evening before I can get it.

As a matter of interest...how, exactly, is a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine, made in a lab that (as far as I can tell) doesn't exist a prediction of an outbreak of what might be a more virulent mutation of H1N1?

Other then the country matching, there's not much "crossover". Baxter have offices in the Ukraine, but not a lab, for a start...unless I'm mistaken.

macshadow

bonkey wrote: »

Thanks. I'll see its an audio report, so it'll have to wait till this evening before I can get it.

As a matter of interest...how, exactly, is a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine, made in a lab that (as far as I can tell) doesn't exist a prediction of an outbreak of what might be a more virulent mutation of H1N1?

Other then the country matching, there's not much "crossover". Baxter have offices in the Ukraine, but not a lab, for a start...unless I'm mistaken.

It's not an audio report, it's in the sixth link down on post 2(sorry i'm not good at posting links)
A bioweapon could be disguised as a vaccine in the way that has been documented by Jane Burgermeister at www.theflucase.com which is 100% factual and baxter have accepted this, where an absolutely deadly batch of contaminated flu vaccine was sent to 16 countries and was only discovered by an astute lab worker who tested it on guinea pigs. Using biosafety level 3 regulations would make it impossible for the above to happen.
I'm not sure what you mean by a prediction of an outbreak of what might be a more virulent mutation of H1N1.
Read the prediction by Joseph Moshe dated august 21.

bonkey

macshadow wrote: »

It's not an audio report, it's in the sixth link down on post 2(sorry i'm not good at posting links)

My bad. I was looking at the wrong link.

Thanks.

A bioweapon could be disguised as a vaccine in the way that has been documented by Jane Burgermeister at www.theflucase.com which is 100% factual and baxter have accepted this, where an absolutely deadly batch of contaminated flu vaccine was sent to 16 countries and was only discovered by an astute lab worker who tested it on guinea pigs. Using biosafety level 3 regulations would make it impossible for the above to happen.

There's a number of problems with this claim.

Biosafety level 3 regulations were used, and it happened, so its not impossible. There are a number of possibilities to consider, but no matter whether we decide that it was deliberate or accidental (or we're undecided), the first thing is that we must accept that its possible to claim something was BS3-compliant and for something like this to happen.

So BS3 is perhaps insufficient, perhaps corruptible, perhaps not properly controlled. No matter which of those options we look at, it allows for both accidental and deliberate options.

Don't get me wrong...I'm the first to stand up and agree that Baxter are at least criminally negligent in this affair...but I'm not so sure that its an easy step to go beyond that and conclude that it was deliberate based on the evidence at hand.

I'm not sure what you mean by a prediction of an outbreak of what might be a more virulent mutation of H1N1.
Read the prediction by Joseph Moshe dated august 21.

There are two events to compare here:

1) The allegations allegedly made by Moshe. (I'm working it this way because only one person spoke to him, didn't record the conversation, didn't put it on air, and repeated the claims afterwards. It doesn't really matter whether Moshe made the claim or someone else did, though, because the claim was made by someone.)

2) The events which have been observed in Ukraine. What has been observed in Ukraine is an outbreak of some disease. Some people say its "just" the pandemic strain of flu, with the initial observations being skewed due to a poor medical system rife with corruption. Others say its a mutation of this flu with two other seasonal variants. Others say its some sort of "escaped" bioweapon.

The allegations made in August involve a Baxter lab in Ukraine. As I've repeatedly stated - this doesn't seem to exist.
This claim was about something which was going to work via vaccination...but there is effectively no active vaccination program in Ukraine.
This claim was about a delivery mechanism of a vaccine, not of a disease. The events in Ukraine appear to be a transmissable flu / disease.

Other than Ukraine being a common factor, there seems to be nothing linking the two, and even then they require the existence of a lab which doesn't seem to exist. The aforementioned case linked to Baxter was to do with vaccines from their Austrian lab, IIRC.

macshadow

"other than ukraine being a common factor" Is that not enough, he could have picked any number of countries. I think we should track him down and ask him if he wouldn't mind helping us to pick six numbers between 1 and 45:D

squod

bonkey wrote: »

The allegations made in August involve a Baxter lab in Ukraine. As I've repeatedly stated - this doesn't seem to exist.

The aforementioned case linked to Baxter was to do with vaccines from their Austrian lab, IIRC.

… The results of the analysis showed that in the material delivered by Baxter to those 106 laboratories, two live viruses coexisted.

http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/major_victory_with_swine_flu_scandal_191120090720.html


In fairness I don't expect every large company to have opperations in every country of the world. In this instance it's highly likely that a contractor was acting for Baxter, as BioTest was for the Czech region.

Having worked for very large companies myself I've seen many takeovers, buy-outs, and mergers take place with parent companies having little involvement in the day to day of their accuired companies. Much less a name change which can be troublesome .

bonkey

macshadow wrote: »

"other than ukraine being a common factor" Is that not enough,

In my book...no, its not enough.

He specified a number of things...location, company involved, method of delivery, and so on. Discarding the majority of those to "match" just one of the factors is not enough.

I think we should track him down and ask him if he wouldn't mind helping us to pick six numbers between 1 and 45:D

If someone "predicted" teh lotto for you, and got 2 of the 6 numbers right...would you ignore the 4, and conclude that their prediction was accurate?

bonkey

squod wrote: »

In fairness I don't expect every large company to have opperations in every country of the world. In this instance it's highly likely that a contractor was acting for Baxter, as BioTest was for the Czech region.

Having worked for very large companies myself I've seen many takeovers, buy-outs, and mergers take place with parent companies having little involvement in the day to day of their accuired companies. Much less a name change which can be troublesome .

So, basically, if we assume that Baxter are behind things, we can conclude that the prediction that Baxter were behind it was accurate....

I'd agree with that 100%.

imstrongerthanu

Facilities in the United States
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]California, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Mississippi, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ontario, Quebec, and Puerto Rico.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Facilities in Europe
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Tunisia, Turkey, and the United Kingdom.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Facilities in [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Latin America
[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica and Mexico.

[/SIZE][/FONT]Facilities in [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Asia Pacific[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Japan, China, North Asia, Australia/New Zealand and India/Southeast Asia.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/FONT]Hmm I don't see any official company in the country of Ukraine?

squod

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/font]Hmm I don't see any official company in the country of Ukraine?

So then Baxter don't own, opperate, have interests in or contract any other companies other than those called Baxter. Prove it.

It's common for companies to own other companies by different names. From my own part the research arm of my previous employer went by a different name other than the one listed over the door. Ask any accountant about this common practise if you like.

imstrongerthanu

Have you done any research and found any labs that are offshoots of Baxter in the Ukraine?

squod

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Have you done any research and found any labs that are offshoots of Baxter in the Ukraine?

You made the claim you back it up.

bonkey

squod wrote: »

You made the claim you back it up.

Do you think you should also apply this standard to people claiming that Moshe's claim was accurate, thus requiring that Baxter do have interests there?

ETA : I think you'll also find that the only claim that imstrongerthanu made was that he didn't see any official company in Ukraine....a claim which he did back up, by providing the list of countries that he did see.

meglome

squod wrote: »

You made the claim you back it up.

Squod it amazes me the number of times you fail to see that you're the one making claims or supporting those making the claims. The onus is on you and the others making those claims to prove that Baxter has any connection with the Ukraine, so far it looks like they don't.

Diogenes

squod wrote: »

So then Baxter don't own, opperate, have interests in or contract any other companies other than those called Baxter. Prove it.

It's common for companies to own other companies by different names. From my own part the research arm of my previous employer went by a different name other than the one listed over the door. Ask any accountant about this common practise if you like.

The claim is that a Baxter lab in the Ukraine is responsible. Surely the original claim can be traced back to this lab.

The onus is on the person making the claim, not on the person disproving it. If they are confident it was a Baxter or Baxter subsidiary they they should surely be able to name the lab, and give an address.

squod

bonkey wrote: »

Do you think you should also apply this standard to people claiming that Moshe's claim was accurate, thus requiring that Baxter do have interests there?

ETA : I think you'll also find that the only claim that imstrongerthanu made was that he didn't see any official company in Ukraine....a claim which he did back up, by providing the list of countries that he did see.

meglome wrote: »

Squod it amazes me the number of times you fail to see that you're the one making claims or supporting those making the claims. The onus is on you and the others making those claims to prove that Baxter has any connection with the Ukraine, so far it looks like they don't.

If either of you think this is a one way street you're wrong. Again I see people not contributing one iota, bar sniping dismissing. Dismiss all you want, but you'll have to come up with usefull arguments for doing so.

That means researching your counterclaim and standing over it. All I've done so far is post some links. Research and disprove those links all you want.

Diogenes

squod wrote: »

If either of you think this is a one way street you're wrong. Again I see people not contributing one iota, bar sniping dismissing. Dismiss all you want, but you'll have to come up with usefull arguments for doing so.

That means researching your counterclaim and standing over it. All I've done so far is post some links. Research and disprove those links all you want.

I am once again left nearly speechless by someones claim on this forum. I can only hope you are never at the mercy of a court that works off your concept of the ideal of "burden of proof".

bonkey

squod wrote: »

If either of you think this is a one way street you're wrong. Again I see people not contributing one iota, bar sniping dismissing. Dismiss all you want, but you'll have to come up with usefull arguments for doing so.

That means researching your counterclaim and standing over it. All I've done so far is post some links. Research and disprove those links all you want.

Hold on a second...the counterclaims made are :

1) The claims being made ignore the fact that the details don't match. Evidence of this has been shown.

2) There is no evidence to support the claim being made, regarding Baxter having a lab in Ukraine. It's impossible to actually show "no evidence". What one can show is that the evidence which can be found doesn't support the claim...which has been done.

This isn't sniping. These are valid, salient points. The details do not match, and there is no evidence that a Baxter lab exists. I'm at a loss to understand what your objection is to thee points.

ETA:
For the record, I certainly don't think this is a one-way street. I believe that perspectives both for and against the allegations have a place here, and should be held to a similar standard. Wouldn't you agree?

squod

The results of the analysis showed that in the material delivered by Baxter to those 106 laboratories, two live viruses coexisted.

imstrongerthanu wrote: »

Facilities in the United States
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]California, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Mississippi, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ontario, Quebec, and Puerto Rico.[/SIZE][/font]

Facilities in Europe
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Tunisia, Turkey, and the United Kingdom.[/SIZE][/font]

Facilities in [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Latin America
[/SIZE][/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica and Mexico.

[/SIZE][/font]Facilities in [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Asia Pacific[/SIZE][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Japan, China, North Asia, Australia/New Zealand and India/Southeast Asia.[/SIZE][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE][/font]Hmm I don't see any official company in the country of Ukraine?

I'm seeing thirty something facilities and one hundred and six deliveries.

squod

bonkey wrote: »

Hold on a second...the counterclaims made are :

1) The claims being made ignore the fact that the details don't match. Evidence of this has been shown.

2) There is no evidence to support the claim being made, regarding Baxter having a lab in Urkaine. It's impossible to actually show "no evidence". What one can show is that the evidence which can be found doesn't support the claim...which has been done.

This isn't sniping. These are valid, salient points. The details do not match, and there is no evidence that a Baxter lab exists. I'm at a loss to understand what your objection is to thee points.

Again I've asked for proof that there are no Baxter affiliated labs in Ukraine. You say there isn't?

bonkey

squod wrote: »

Again I've asked for proof that there are no Baxter affiliated labs in Ukraine. You say there isn't?

I'm not sure what posts you've been reading,.

I have repeatedly said that Baxter have no facilities that I can find.
imstrongerthenyou has said that he couldn't see any official company.

What has been said is that no evidence has been found to support the existence of such an entity.

You've gotten up in arms about this, insisting we do the impossible and prove that such an entity doesn't exist...and all I'm asking is that you apply the same standards equally.

Get up in arms about people making claims that Moshe predicted the recent events, because they require it to exist and have provided no evidence.

You're the one insisting this isn't a one-way street....so live up to that. Hold both sides to the same standards.

bonkey

Incidentally, you can't prove non-existence. Asking someone to do so is either disingenuous, or showing a flawed understanding of logic.

squod

bonkey wrote: »

you can't prove non-existence........

I've heard this before somewhere. I've said it's likely that Baxter has affilliates, a point which isn't hard to disprove. Baxter aren't non-existant and neither are their affiliates.

As for J. Moshe, I'm not so interested as I am to find out that Baxter are shipping live 'flu viruses all over the gaff. If he tried to forewarn us then thank you kind sir.

Nehaxak

Just hope you were all watching the latest episode of V tonight.

Compund R6 in the flu vaccine was it ?

imstrongerthanu

What bonkey said is common sense.
The story goes Baxter has a lab in the Ukraine.I posted where they have their labs and Ukraine isn't on the list.
So you say they may have subsidiaries,ok fine lets find them together and get to the bottom of this?
Agreed?

meglome

squod wrote: »

I've heard this before somewhere. I've said it's likely that Baxter has affilliates, a point which isn't hard to disprove. Baxter aren't non-existant and neither are their affiliates.

As for J. Moshe, I'm not so interested as I am to find out that Baxter are shipping live 'flu viruses all over the gaff. If he tried to forewarn us then thank you kind sir.

Some people say the earth is flat, for a number of logical reasons I believe them to be wrong. I'm not making any claims about the earth whatsoever so I don't need to prove anything. However if they could prove it using reliable evidence then I'd seriously have to look at my belief the earth isn't flat. But until they can come up with some serious evidence I'll happy believe what I believe.

I find it perplexing that you think we need to prove you wrong when you can't even prove your right to any even basic standard. We can't even show that this Moshe guys isn't just some mental patient who's latched on to paranoia about vaccinations. Can you not even see that your standards of proof are almost non existent when they are conspiracy driven topics but it's almost impossible to convince you the conspiracy doesn't add up?

King Mob

meglome wrote: »

We can't even show that this Moshe guys isn't just some mental patient who's latched on to paranoia about vaccinations.

We haven't even been shown if this guy even said anything about vaccines let alone made any predictions about the Ukraine.

bad act

US-Ukraine Business Council

Professionals, Drexel University; Baxter; Novo Nordisk; Norvartis; Incyte Corp; the HIV-AIDS Initiative which includes Roche, Abbot, Merck, ...
www.usubc.org/AUR/aur565.php - Cached

1. INTERNATIONAL HEALTH CARE INITIATIVE LAUNCHED
BY THE UKRAINIAN FEDERATION OF AMERICA
First Lady Kateryna Yushchenko addresses the initial meeting
E. Morgan Williams, Publisher and Editor
The Action Ukraine Report (AUR), Number 565, Article 1
Washington, D.C., Tuesday, September 20, 2005

Dr. Chernyk said the Federation will lead a delegation representing the
health care organizations and companies to Ukraine in early November
for a series of meeting with the Ministry of Health, the International Fund
"Ukraine 3000'" and other groups and to develop further plans for the
new Initiative's work in Ukraine. Kateryna Yushchenko stated she
looked forward to meeting with the delegation in Kyiv.
Some of the organizations and companies who met with Kateryna
Yushchenko at the Federation meeting included the American International
Health Alliance; Public Health Laboratories; Children's Hospital of
Philadelphia; World Federation of Ukrainian Medical Association; Safe
Blood International Foundation; College of Nursing and Health
Professionals, Drexel University; Baxter; Novo Nordisk; Norvartis; Incyte
Corp; the HIV-AIDS Initiative which includes Roche, Abbot, Merck,
Boeringer-Ingelheim, Bristol Myers Squibb, Glaxo-Smithkline and Gilead;
Ukraine-U.S. Business Council and The Bleyzer Foundation.





US-Ukraine Business Council

[9] Baxter Healthcare [10] Professional Care Options This organization develops educational internet and tele- conferencing programs for physician and other ...
www.usubc.org/AUR/aur644.php - Cached

6. UKRAINIAN FEDERATION OF AMERICA PROJECT LIFELINE
DELEGATION MEETS IN UKRAINE WITH TOP OFFICIALS
Ukrainian Federation of America (UFA)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Wednesday, January 18, 2006

6. UKRAINIAN FEDERATION OF AMERICA PROJECT LIFELINE
DELEGATION MEETS IN UKRAINE WITH TOP OFFICIALS

Ukrainian Federation of America (UFA)
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Wednesday, January 18, 2006

PHILADELPHIA - In December 2005, the Ukrainian Federation of America
(UFA) led a delegation to Kyiv, to meet with Ukraine's First Lady Kateryna
Yushchenko, the Ukrainian Ministry of Health and representatives of Fund
"Ukraine-3000."

This was the second in a series of meetings to develop Project Lifeline
which focuses on aiding Ukrainian national development and alleviating the
health crisis facing Ukraine today.

Participants of the Ukrainian Federation's Project Lifeline include:
[1] Safe Blood International
[2] The World Hemophilia Foundation
[3] The World Aids Foundation
[4] Global AID Access
This organization coordinates the efforts and donations of
Pharmaceutical companies producing anti HIV/AIDS medications.
[5] Adolescent HIV/AIDS Unit (Children's Hospital of Philadelphia)

[6] Hematology/Oncology Department (Children's Hospital of Philadelphia)
[7] Novo Nordisk
[8] Novartis
[9] Baxter Healthcare

imstrongerthanu

All the text you just pasted is useless.It says nothing about baxter OR any other company operating in the ukraine.It only says they had 2 meetings with dozens of companies.