Lough Tap Railway Bridge - Disaster Awaits?

JupiterKid

Given the serious collapse yesterday of the viaduct at the Malahide Estuary - where a major tragedy could so easily have happened and;

taking into account the collapse of the Cahir viaduct on the Limerick-Waterford line a few years back, can we say that the Lough Tap railway bridge over the Shannon is structurally safe?

It's a very old bridge that has IMO been poorly maintained and trains between Dublin and Sligo have to go slow when travelling over it. The structure actually creaks and groans when you travel over it.:eek: Could a major tragedy be just around the corner given IE's poor record of recent bridge collapses?

fh041205

Jumping to a few conclusion here aren't you? Do you have some kind of proof that a collapse could easily have happened at Malahide? Why have you even asked this question? Do you expect some kind of definative yes/no response?

A thread with idle speculation as to whether this bridge will collapse next. Just what we need.

covert

Two completely different circumstances for Cahir and Malahide (recall Cahir was wagon coming off track and damaging deck?), but as for the Sligo line bridge, isn't that this bridge? (from Sligo Champion):

"The long-awaited replacement of the Shannon bridge is due to commence in October/ November and will be complete by the end of the year.

Services will be replaced by bus between Dromad and Carrick-onShannon during the work."

Sponge Bob

Barry Kenny from IE told RTE that they engineer inspect a bridge every 2 years and that Malahide was inpected ONLY on Tuesday of this week. 3 days later it collapsed .

Naturally no IE engineer will be sacked or disciplined for this . The most they would ever face would be an early retirement if a few 100 people actually died in a train crash

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0822/rail.html

A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said that the section of the bridge that collapsed underwent a structural examination this week.

The inspection was carried out on the line by an engineer on Tuesday and no issues were identified.

Iarnród Éireann says it will be at least three months before the damage is repaired.

It says the incident had the potential to be a serious tragedy and will be trying to establish how the collapse happened.

The 18.07 Balbriggan to Connolly Station train was crossing the viaduct on the Broadmeadow Estuary between Malahide and Donabate at around 6.20pm yesterday evening.

The driver noticed subsidence on the rail line opposite, which he reported and all services were immediately stopped.

A 20-metre section of the viaduct then collapsed into the water.

There were between 40 and 50 people on the train, which had just crossed over but no-one was injured.

Iarnród Éireann says lines are inspected three times a week by a patrol man and they are given a structural assessment by an engineer every two years.

Based on that I would not trust a pass from any IE engineer .

sdanseo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Barry Kenny from IE told RTE that they engineer inspect a bridge every 2 years and that Malahide was inpected ONLY on Tuesday of this week. 3 days later it collapsed .

Naturally no IE engineer will be sacked or disciplined for this . The most they would ever face would be an early retirement if a few 100 people actually died in a train crash

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0822/rail.html



Based on that I would not trust a pass from any IE engineer .

ANother quote I saw says line checks are carries out 3 times a week, with a full structural survery at 2-year intervals. My guess is Tuesday was a thri-weekly check.

L1011

sdonn wrote: »

ANother quote I saw says line checks are carries out 3 times a week, with a full structural survery at 2-year intervals. My guess is Tuesday was a thri-weekly check.

If it was inspected on Tuesday on a tri-weekly check, and collapsed on Friday, there was a tri-weekly check missed.

sdanseo

Not nessecarily, could be done Friday evenings when it's quieter. Who knows.

I've heard several reasons why 201s aren't permitted to run to Sligo, the condition of the Shannon bridge was one of them (but another also claimed it is due to severe bends on the line).

murphaph

It's just the bridge that prevents 201s from going to Sligo. They are cleared to the bridge IIRC and the bendiest bit is when it's slavishly following the course of the canal. Our railway 'infrastructure' really is horribly antiquated.

mikemac

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Barry Kenny from IE told RTE that they engineer inspect a bridge every 2 years and that Malahide was inpected ONLY on Tuesday of this week. 3 days later it collapsed .

That engineer needs to questioned surely? If not disciplined then at least asked what they saw on Tuesday and turn in a detailed report and stand over every word in it.

If found at fault and Irish Rail won't fire them maybe their professional engineering credentials would be stripped from them.

But I'm not rushing for a scapegoat, ask questions first and find out what happened last Tuesday. It'll be a learning experience for every engineer who does these checks over the hundreds of bridges in Ireland

Buffman

The Lough Tap bridge is due to be finished by next year.
From here

Shannon navigation: Lough Tap Railway Bridge
Tuesday, 09 June 2009
Masters and owners are advised that bridge improvement and replacement works will take place from 8th June until 31st December. Additional temporary navigation marks will be in place to indicate the navigable channel. Work notices will be placed at Albert and Roosky locks to keep masters informed of the on-going work. Masters are requested to take notice of any advice or instructions issued by workboats in attendance to the works.

DWCommuter

This bridge is really in a deplorable condition. It is long overdue for renewal. In fact work was meant to start in 2004. But I see they painted it and covered up the rust and holes in the frame work. (it used to be red) This was after P11 sent a TV crew up to see it in the wake of the Cahir collapse.:D

IE are gansters.

JupiterKid

The River Shannon is about 15 feet deep under the Lough Tap railway bridge. If the bridge were to fail and a crossing train were to plunge into the river, there would be many fatalities due to drownings.

It beggars belief that nothing was done to replace this bridge until now.:mad:

And what of the rail bridge on the Dublin - Galway line over the Shannon at Athlone? What's the real condition of that bridge?

Buffman

JupiterKid wrote: »

And what of the rail bridge on the Dublin - Galway line over the Shannon at Athlone? What's the real condition of that bridge?

It doesn't look too bad compared to the Lough Tap bridge.

Slice

fh041205 wrote: »

Do you have some kind of proof that a collapse could easily have happened at Malahide?

Isn't the fact that a collapse occurred in Malahide evidence enough?

Hungerford

JupiterKid wrote: »

The River Shannon is about 15 feet deep under the Lough Tap railway bridge. If the bridge were to fail and a crossing train were to plunge into the river, there would be many fatalities due to drownings.

If it did happen, IE could hardly say they didn't know about it - there's been a 5 MPH speed limit on the bridge for ages and it's unofficially acknowledged as being in a very poor condition. It's still passed as fit for traffic though.

fh041205

Slice wrote: »

Isn't the fact that a collapse occurred in Malahide evidence enough?

No. Claiming that a collapse could easily happen implies that it should have been foreseen. Unless the OP has some info that they're not sharing, this is an outrageous suggestion.

If you flip a coin and it lands on tails. Does that mean tails is more likely than heads?

corktina

hands up all those on here who are qualified engineers.

...right good.

..all others offering opinions please now shut up....

a 5 mph speed limit on a bridge doesnt mean its not safe....leave it to the Engineers..its their reputation at stake...(see Thomas Bouch and the Tay Bridge disaster if you dont believe me.)

JupiterKid

corktina wrote: »

hands up all those on here who are qualified engineers.

...right good.

..all others offering opinions please now shut up....

a 5 mph speed limit on a bridge doesnt mean its not safe....leave it to the Engineers..its their reputation at stake...(see Thomas Bouch and the Tay Bridge disaster if you dont believe me.)

So only engineers are allowed to offer an opinion? Please - we all use the rail service at some time or the other so we are entitled to give our opinions on the matter.

The fact is that IE have had two serious bridge collpases within the past 6 years - the viaduct at Cahir and now Malahide. The Lough Tap railway bridge has been in a very poor state for many years and it doesn't take a structural engineer to suspect that a bridge in poor condition is much more likely to fail than a bridge in sound structural condition. What other bridges on IE's network are dangerous?

IE are a disgrace for allowing thier viaducts and rail bridges to deteriorate to a dangerous condition.

corktina

as I say, you are only qualified to offer an opinion like that if you are a qualified Engineer...otherwise its just so much hot air....

Carawaystick

corktina wrote: »

as I say, you are only qualified to offer an opinion like that if you are a qualified Engineer

I didn't realise this was a court of law, judge.

Judgement Day

I am inclined to agree with JupiterKid on this one although the Cahir and Malahide bridge collapses are of an entirely different nature. CIE/IE may be stuffed with engineers but unless they are properly funded bridges like that on the Sligo line get long-fingered. I mean the chances are that nobody would have died in the Cherryville train crash had all the old timber carriages with non integral underframes and screw couplings - officially condemned after Buttevant not still been in use - it didn't need any sort of an engineer to be able to point that out. Proper funding wasn't provided and CIE had to muddle along as best they could. Without wishing to be in any way alarmist CIE/IE have a huge number of bridges and, indeed, embankments that are very old and we have had some of the wettest weather in living memory over the last couple of years so nothing should be left to chance.

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

I am inclined to agree with JupiterKid on this one although the Cahir and Malahide bridge collapses are of an entirely different nature. CIE/IE may be stuffed with engineers but unless they are properly funded bridges like that on the Sligo line get long-fingered.

CIE/IE's problem is down to the fact that the government is only prepared to investment them properly on the capital side of things - new trains, new routes, new stuff for Lynch and Dempsey to have photo-ops with.

They won't, however, give them sufficient current funding for maintenance such as bridge replacements, relaying existing routes etc. No photo-ops for FF in that, you see.

westtip

I doubt any of the bridges shown above have undergone the stress the Malahide bridge does/did - with four powerful tide runs daily (in bound tide and outgoing tide) through a gap which is artificially created by the causeway - the tide under this bridge was always a torrent at high tide - I used to fish off this bridge in the mid 70s, mainly as it was such a great fun for Bass fishing, At high tide the power of the water under the bridge was immense - frankly I am afraid it has stood this long.