Ethical question about a convicted paedophile.

AckwelFoley

Im a regular user on boards, ive requested special permission from the powers that be, to go as a re reg on this issue for obvious reasons.

Recently we had a property for lease which we advertised. One of the prospective tennants that came impressed because of their manner and because of their demeanor and they were interested in taking the property.

Subsequent to taking a deposit it soon transpired that the person was a convicted paedophile and on a sex offenders list. It was also made clear to me what the offence included, it involved a very young child, and frankly i felt ill...

My concern is more for the neighbours, this man has offended before, not in the distant past - in this decade, there are young families either side of the property, if i were one of those families i wouldnt want that person near us. As a "landlord" im sure he'll pay his rent but that frankly not the issue

My question is, as he now is a free man in the eyes of the law do i rent him the property or do i go with my gut feeling and not rent the place to him..

galwayrush

I wouldn't rent to him, because knowing what he is( they can never be fully cured afaik) i would not like to feel responsible if he re-offended in my neighbourhood if i let him stay here.

Ickle Magoo

It depends what ethics you are referring to. Continuing to punish a man that society has deemed to have served his sentence or withholding information that could result in a child being abused.

Which do you find easier to live with?

punchdrunk

somebody somewhere is going to take his money off him,
but please don't let it be you

Zebra3

Rent the gaff to him and charge him double. :cool:

Four-Percent

Yes, he is a free man in the eyes of the law. Refusing to let him rent could surely land you in legal trouble?

Install security cameras around the place and let the gardai know if he does anything suspicious.

Diabhal Beag

One answer.......... NO!

joanofarc

no!
why would he chose to live beside famalies with young children???

Whispered

absolutely not. I don't even see what there is to consider here.

Seaneh

If you wouldn't be happy with him living next door to your children then I don't see how you can justify letting him next to two familys with small children...

Put the ad back in the paper, find someone else.

Lux23

Would he not have to tell the neighbours what hes done?

AckwelFoley

Four-Percent wrote: »

Yes, he is a free man in the eyes of the law. Refusing to let him rent could surely land you in legal trouble?

Install security cameras around the place and let the gardai know if he does anything suspicious.

true, however you dont know my location, perhaps my property is next door to you or children you care for. Do you now feel the same?

Whispered

Four-Percent wrote: »

Yes, he is a free man in the eyes of the law. Refusing to let him rent could surely land you in legal trouble?

nope, a landlord can rent his house out to whoever he wants.

phasers

Children live nearby. No way in hell.

MagicMarker

OP, this guy has to live somewhere, and he'll always be near kids and there's always a (high) risk he'll reoffend. If you have the power to stop a child abuser moving next to your neighbours who have kids, then it's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned.

Rebelheart

Difficult dilemma, but that very poignant Kevin Bacon movie, The Woodsman, came to mind straight away (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woodsman).

Did the potential tenant tell you about his convictions? All other things being equal I'd be inclined to accept him. He has served his time, and obviously his release was sanctioned by people who treated him/ know the details of his case better than the simple conviction testifies to.

You could talk to him about it.

Seaneh

How about you approch your neighbours and see how they react?

I can already tell you their reaction and they are right.

Sharpshooter

I wouldn't rent to him tbh, the fact that he wants somewhere close to children would be setting the alarm bells off for me.
I think you should tell him you've a relative looking for somewhere to live and you have decided to let them have it.
Give him back his deposit and apologise for the inconvenience.

Tell him anything, just don't rent to him.

Johnnnybravo

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I wouldn't rent to him tbh, the fact that he wants somewhere close to children would be setting the alarm bells off for me.
I think you should tell him you've a relative looking for somewhere to live and you have decided to let them have it.
Give him back his deposit and apologise for the inconvenience.

Tell him anything, just don't rent to him.

+1, I wouldnt want anything to do with aiding a paedophile to live beside kids. Suppose he did do something, I dont know about you but it would prey on my conscience the fact that I knew what he was before I let him take the house.

No way in hell Id let him take the house.

Birdie086

NO

I have a three year old and if he was abused by somone renting nearby and the landlord knew prior to renting I would hold the landlord party responsible.
A friends duaghter was subject to abuse for a short time a few years ago, everything except penetration basically and she is still going to counselling over a year later. They(her and her family) have moved to England and started afresh. The abuser has been convicted thank god. He was her aunts partner. There is enough of it about without makin it any easier for these disgusting people.
Bould you really likve with yourself if anything happened?

Paulyh

regardless of the crime he commited......would you rent your house to a convicted armed robber, or a drug dealer?? i wouldnt, he is a criminal........you cant trust him.
what if the neighbours find out about his past. they are not going to be happy, and it will look bad on you if they know you knew about it.
perhaps it seems harsh to some people maybe, but why put yourself in a potenially problematic situation. you have to protect your investment. he could reoffend in a months time, and your back to square one.

PCPhoto

i think you should ask your neighbours and see what they think of your "potential" tennant.

I do think that the Gardai would have to be informed of his living address - they have to undergo strict post release supervision and I'm sure that his Parole officer/liason.... whatever ....would need to discuss the matter with you. (if the place is suitable or not)

ask yourself - is the tennant suitable for the area ? (regardless of his past)

Personally - I dont think there are too many reformed criminals - I have seen families/generations go through the courts system, Gardai will tell you that they know families and relations who are in the prison system..... I have very strong views on career criminals....I have been the victim of criminals on a couple of occasions and almost lost my business due to it.

I have little sympathy for them as they have little or no sympathy when they commit their crimes.

The guy must live somewhere - and if you dont rent to him someone else will..... do you want/need the place rented....is the area suitable for him - being a paedo he would know and understand that he shouldnt live in or near an area where children of similar age to his victim(s) ....

do you know/think he has reformed?

greendom

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I wouldn't rent to him tbh, the fact that he wants somewhere close to children would be setting the alarm bells off for me.
I think you should tell him you've a relative looking for somewhere to live and you have decided to let them have it.
Give him back his deposit and apologise for the inconvenience.

Tell him anything, just don't rent to him.

How do you know he wants to live near kids? I imagine that it's pretty difficult to find somewhere to live that's not near kids isn't it?

I'd like the guy to get on with his life and successfully re-integrate into society. But if there's any chance of him re-offending I wouldn't want to be his landlord or have put your neighbours' kids in any danger. You're going to need to find out what rehabilitation has he undergone and what future risk he poses.

Perhaps you should be upfront with him and explain that you have found out about his past. Explain that you'll want references from his parole officer and others involved with his reintroduction to society.

This is going to be a whole lot of hassle for you though and maybe it would just be easier to say no. If you do decide to go through with it though I wouldn't mention it to his neighbours. He has served his crime and deserves the chance to get on with his life anonomously

MagicMarker

greendom wrote: »

But if there's any chance of him re-offending I wouldn't want to be his landlord or have put your neighbours' kids in any danger.

How exactly do you prove that there's no chance of re-offending?

Whispered

greendom wrote: »

If you do decide to go through with it though I wouldn't mention it to his neighbours. He has served his crime and deserves the chance to get on with his life anonomously

Oh yeah, dont give the parents any heads up that their children are living near a convicted paedo, poor dear deserves another chance doesn't he. Thats bull, those kids safety mean a lot more than that bastards second chances. He had his chance to integrate into society before he ruined the life of an innocent child.

galwayrush

MagicMarker wrote: »

How exactly do you prove that there's no chance of re-offending?

It is not possible to prove, so better safe than sorry and don't rent to him.

greendom

MagicMarker wrote: »

How exactly do you prove that there's no chance of re-offending?

I know and that's what makes the whole thing so difficult

Schism

When it comes down to it with an issue like this I'd say go with your gut feeling. The fact that you went to the rounds of getting a valid re-reg to post this topic speaks volumes to how uneasy you are with it.

You might feel like you're judging the fellow unfairly if you don't give him the chance but it's your house and you have the right to do as you please with it. What's he going to do if you refuse him the rental? Parade about as a martyr telling everybody how hard it is for a convicted paedophile to get housing?

The flipside is he probably seems to be a model tenant other than that. You could end up with much worse 'decent people' moving in.

Anyway, I voted no. I wouldn't be happy knowing a convicted sex offender was living under my roof.

greendom

helena.ryan wrote: »

Oh yeah, dont give the parents any heads up that their children are living near a convicted paedo, poor dear deserves another chance doesn't he. Thats bull, those kids safety mean a lot more than that bastards second chances. He had his chance to integrate into society before he ruined the life of an innocent child.

I realise the difficulty here, but the choice is either to let him have the house or not. Telling the neighbours will result in the guy being hounded out anyway

Sharpshooter

greendom wrote: »

How do you know he wants to live near kids? I imagine that it's pretty difficult to find somewhere to live that's not near kids isn't it?

Did you read the OP, there are children living either side of the property.

And I don't care how difficult he finds it tbh.

PCPhoto

MagicMarker wrote: »

How exactly do you prove that there's no chance of re-offending?

its not a chance of re-offending ...its the risk of re-offending ..... they do psychological tests to see if he's still inclined towards paedophilic ways.

the tests are not 100% but the doctors (shrinks) would give their assessment based on reactions/answers during the tests.... sometimes the docs want the person to admit their failings and responsibility for what they did.

basically if the "criminal" has any degree of intelligence they give the docs the answer they want to hear ...go out and re-offend (its happened before and will happen again)

greendom

Sharpshooter wrote: »

Did you read the OP, there are children living either side of the property.

And I don't care how difficult he finds it tbh.

But you don't know that was his motivation, for choosing the property do you?

Sharpshooter

greendom wrote: »

But you don't know that was his motivation, for choosing the property do you?

And you don't know it's not.
I would say it's highly likely though.

Ickle Magoo

greendom wrote: »

But you don't know that was his motivation, for choosing the property do you?

And you don't know that it wasn't. For all we know it could well have been.

Rebelheart

helena.ryan wrote: »

Oh yeah, dont give the parents any heads up that their children are living near a convicted paedo, poor dear deserves another chance doesn't he. Thats bull, those kids safety mean a lot more than that bastards second chances. He had his chance to integrate into society before he ruined the life of an innocent child.

Let's just hang him now then. Spare the pretence of reform, integration, forgiveness, that wild notion that people actually change and a concept of justice that works more than one way. Nobody should be released from prison, because they had their "chance to integrate" before they committed their respective crimes. This is the logical consequence of this thinking. Just execute everybody convicted of a crime, because when they come out we as a society should hold it against them forever.

The choice is between forgiveness or becoming bitter and delusionally self-righteous. Most people are smart enough to opt for forgiveness. The law is shaped with this in mind.

renraw

I wouldn't rent it to him....these scumbags always repeat offence....there is no "fix" for their sick ways. If anthing happened to the neighbours kids, imagine how bad you'd feel

Birdie086

greendom wrote: »

But you don't know that was his motivation, for choosing the property do you?

Ya, but you simply cannot ignore the fact that there are two families with children are living next door.
Its rare to see a recovering alcoholic in a pub for example or someone on a diet in a cake shop. How would you feel if was you next door and you had your kids to worry about.

Mrmoe

Easy decision to make, the answer should be no, every time.

Saibh

I would say no. And as posted, will he offend again or not, no one knows.

But I rather not take the chance that he might.

greendom

PCPhoto wrote: »

basically if the "criminal" has any degree of intelligence they give the docs the answer they want to hear ...go out and re-offend (its happened before and will happen again)

That's a bit like the way they used to treat witches in the dunking stool isn't it?

Rebelheart

renraw wrote: »

I wouldn't rent it to him....these scumbags always repeat offence....there is no "fix" for their sick ways.

Would you have statistics to support this "always" claim?

greendom

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

And you don't know that it wasn't. For all we know it could well have been.

I realise that - I was questioning Sharpshooter's opinion that the guy wanted to live near children

ilovelove

No way do not rent to him, these people often reoffend I dont believe you can ever "cure", if you will, a pedeophile and would always consider them a threat. He should live on his own on a deserted island and even then i wouldnt fully thrust him.

Ickle Magoo

Forgiveness is one thing, I think it would extremely ill advised to assume paedophiles have stopped fancying and wanting to have sexual relations with children because they once got caught & jailed for it.

I don't think you can expect people to have the same degree of forgive & forget for someone who gets turned on by children as most other sorts of petty criminal.

Whispered

Rebelheart wrote: »

Let's just hang him now then.

that would be the best thing to do. Yes.

Rebelheart wrote: »

This is the logical consequence of this thinking. Just execute everybody convicted of a crime, because when they come out we as a society should hold it against them forever.

murderers, rapists, paedos should never come out. I'm not talking about a petty crime here, or even a terrible crime commited in a moment of madness, the man is a convicted child molester and does not deserve anything from society.

Excuse me for having absolutely no sympathy. how bad I am for looking at these dregs of society with derision and replusion. Good for you, being to be able to overcome the fact that some child, some where, had their life ruined by this monster. If it was closer to home, one of your kids, nieces, nephews this person got near, I'm sure you wouldn't be saying the same. Let him move into your house, your neighbourhood. Let him integrate with your children. Afterall he does deserve a chance.

Abi

Sharpshooter wrote: »

I wouldn't rent to him tbh, the fact that he wants somewhere close to children would be setting the alarm bells off for me.

Its the first thing I thought of. If he had genuinely no intent of re-offending he wouldn't even consider an area with young families.


No freakin' way OP. But as someone else mentioned, somebody somewhere is going to be desperate enough to rent out to him =/

PCPhoto

Rebelheart wrote: »

Let's just hang him now then. Spare the pretence of reform, integration, forgiveness, that wild notion that people actually change and a concept of justice that works more than one way. Nobody should be released from prison, because they had their "chance to integrate" before they committed their respective crimes. This is the logical consequence of this thinking. Just execute everybody convicted of a crime, because when they come out we as a society should hold it against them forever.

The choice is between forgiveness or becoming bitter and delusionally self-righteous. Most people are smart enough to opt for forgiveness. The law is shaped with this in mind.

Rebelheart .... have you ever been the victim of a crime ?
Robbery, assault, rape, ever had your home burgled or had your wallet stolen ?

I think that anyone who has suffered at the hands of criminals will have little pity for them.....Personally I hate "do-gooder" types that defend criminals - if a criminal didnt break the law in the first place everyone would be happier.

The End Of Days

galwayrush wrote: »

I wouldn't rent to him, because knowing what he is( they can never be fully cured afaik) i would not like to feel responsible if he re-offended in my neighbourhood if i let him stay here.

renraw wrote: »

I wouldn't rent it to him....these scumbags always repeat offence....there is no "fix" for their sick ways. If anthing happened to the neighbours kids, imagine how bad you'd feel

ilovelove wrote: »

No way do not rent to him, these people often reoffend I dont believe you can ever "cure", if you will, a pedeophile and would always consider them a threat. He should live on his own on a deserted island and even then i wouldnt fully thrust him.

Annoying on too many levels for a Sunday.

@OP You are in a tuff spot.

But

invalidusername wrote: »

true, however you dont know my location, perhaps my property is next door to you or children you care for. Do you now feel the same?

By that statement you aready know your answer?

Four-Percent

helena.ryan wrote: »

nope, a landlord can rent his house out to whoever he wants.

Didn't know that, thanks.

AckwelFoley

Four-Percent wrote: »

Didn't know that, thanks.

I dont think thats entirely true. You cant be seen to discriminate against certain people from what i understand..race religion ..etc

My name is URL

I can't believe you needed to ask the question considering you know there are kids on either side of your property

wtf tbh