engine problems with deutz agrotron 610

deutz610

hi
i bought a new deutz agrotron 610 last november and i am having serious issues with the engine proformance it is so sluggish it feels more like a 90 hp tractor than 150hp that it was shown to be ptting out in a dyno test it has had 3 new engine programs put into it but these have made no difference there is 900 hrs on it and deutz say they can do no more with it anyone else having problems like this?

maidhc

Doesn't sound very reasonable of Deutz. Did you compare the machine against a similar model? Does the Dyno show it is putting out 150hp? Could there be a gearbox issue?

I'm happy enough to go through the legal side of things off boards (I'm a solicitor who loves tractors..!) if you want to drop me a PM.

bk1991

deutz610 wrote: »

hi
i bought a new deutz agrotron 610 last november and i am having serious issues with the engine proformance it is so sluggish it feels more like a 90 hp tractor than 150hp that it was shown to be ptting out in a dyno test it has had 3 new engine programs put into it but these have made no difference there is 900 hrs on it and deutz say they can do no more with it anyone else having problems like this?

since iam lost deutz to the lad who used to be main massey dealer the serviceing and stuff isnt as good

greenpeter

Dose it lack power when your doing road work or when working in the field? I worked on them for 7 years so mite be able help you

Casinoking

I've heard of a couple of the new ones giving trouble alright, an M640 in particular. It was putting out the power fine but there was no torque, as soon as the engine started to die it gave up the ghost. It took 3 or 4 engine programmes to sort the problem but it's fine now. What dealer did you buy it from, I know a couple of people who might be able to help you. As far as I know though, the 610 is supposed to be closer to 140hp than 150. I was looking at a 620 towards the end of last year, but bought one of the last of the 150's instead. A great tractor. There'll always be teething problems with a new range of tractors but as far as I know they have them sorted now. I've got 4 Deutz tractors and wouldn't say a word against them.

Claasman

Just wondering what you mean by sluggish? poor acceleration when pulling a trailer, failing to reach topspeed with average loads? dying on heavy pto work?
whats the fuel use like? what torque was it putting it out on the dyno?

deutz610

maidhc wrote: »

Doesn't sound very reasonable of Deutz. Did you compare the machine against a similar model? Does the Dyno show it is putting out 150hp? Could there be a gearbox issue?

I'm happy enough to go through the legal side of things off boards (I'm a solicitor who loves tractors..!) if you want to drop me a PM.

hello
yes my two brothers in law use deutz tractors a 150 and a 120 agrotron and the two of them have no problems infact the 120 would leave mine for dead it is putting out 135hp on the pto shaft so if you take 12% of this figure and add it to pto hp this gives an engine hp of 151 hp its nothing to do with the gearbox

deutz610

Casinoking wrote: »

I've heard of a couple of the new ones giving trouble alright, an M640 in particular. It was putting out the power fine but there was no torque, as soon as the engine started to die it gave up the ghost. It took 3 or 4 engine programmes to sort the problem but it's fine now. What dealer did you buy it from, I know a couple of people who might be able to help you. As far as I know though, the 610 is supposed to be closer to 140hp than 150. I was looking at a 620 towards the end of last year, but bought one of the last of the 150's instead. A great tractor. There'll always be teething problems with a new range of tractors but as far as I know they have them sorted now. I've got 4 Deutz tractors and wouldn't say a word against them.

well
my two brother in laws use agrotrons a 150 and a 120 and the 120 would pull mine apart my tractor does the same on the dyno its putting out the power but the engine dies if it even meets a bump on the road the slightest hill and it will pull engine revs from 1700 back to 1400 and even changing down powershift ranges it takes forever for engine revs to come back it was dynoed at 150 hp by donohoe agri where i bought it they can have it back if the don't soon do something with it thete is 3 engine programes gone into it with no results

deutz610

greenpeter wrote: »

Dose it lack power when your doing road work or when working in the field? I worked on them for 7 years so mite be able help you

it lacks power on the road big time but also if you use the h or s powershifts in the field it dies a death

Casinoking

Which Donohoe's branch did you buy it from? They're a bit of a disaster since they took on the Deutz alright. Was it their own mechanics they sent out to the tracor?

deutz610

Casinoking wrote: »

Which Donohoe's branch did you buy it from? They're a bit of a disaster since they took on the Deutz alright. Was it their own mechanics they sent out to the tracor?

i bought it in the dublin branch and it was the service manager who put in the programmes i lso had kevin pryce from sdf out with me but he says there is very little more they can do at the moment in looking at legal advice as i am coming into my busy season and have a tractor that won't perform i traded in a landini 135 for this deutz and it was a better tractor engine wise than this thing

Casinoking

I don't want to start naming names of individuals on here for obvious reasons, but you haven't had the right men at that tractor as far as I'd be concerned. Who did your brothers-in-law buy from? Drop me a PM if you want some names and numbers of people who might be able to help you.

leitrim lad

i may be wrong and stand to be corrected, but i threw back a jd6930, to a dealer for similar problems and it turned out that the dealer hadnt a clue what was wrong with it, a lad came from germany and the problem was the new commonrail engine, with this new injector pump, with one injector pipe splitting into 6 to feed 6 injectors, this was casuing a lack of power and even the turbo was loosing out with the lack of diesel getting from the pump to the cylinder.

i dont have a duetz ,but i do have a lot of sames , would that be the same engine as a rubin 150, or a silver.

i have also heard of alot of lamborginis giving similar trouble, so i stay away from the new common rail stuff and buy 10 series john deeres now, there bulletproof

fig mclough

heard of a similar problems with a neighbours new Zetor, it was grand driving along until a little hump on the road it would die like yours, it took the dealer 2 weeks to solve it and it turned out the turbo was half gone, not fully so they thaught it was something else, let us no what the problem is anyway

greenpeter

There is a limiter on the gearbox which cuts the reves back while on the road, its a german thing but is a rite pain in the arse its ment to save fuel. Basicly it means you can reach top speed while working at lower reves but come a hill and you tend to start moving back words it can be by passed . There also could be a boost pressure problem with the turbo, I'd keep at them and mention you had a jd on demo and you loved it they wont be long getting there fingure out

Casinoking

The speed limiter isn't the problem in this case, although you're right it is a pain in the arse and can be by-passed. I've had it switched off on my Agrotrons. It's also a different problem to the new John Deere engines, which as Leitrim correctly points out has an injector pipe splitting for each of the cylinders. There's a manifold which diesel is pumped into to deliver fuel under pressure to the 6 pipes. The John Deere has only one pump servicing this manifold, and the slightest piece of dirt or foreign body in the fuel will cause the pump to miss for a split second. This causes the pressure to drop in the manifold, interrupts the diesel supply to the injectors and causes the loss of power. The new Deutz engine, on the other hand, has 2 pumps serving a similar system so even if one misses the other will maintain the pressure. The problem is an electronic one in the engine control programme. And no, it's not the same engine as a Same Rubin 150, it's a completely new engine for the Agrotron M range.

cwlad

the new deutz engine is giving this problem.. its not the first iv heard of. its gotto do with the engines response to the throttle pedal position espeicially while driving on the road. would have thought that after 3 programs the would have solved it tho. zf transmissions seem to be a hard transmission on horsepower. the had too fit a lubrication cut off on the brakes when you go over 20 km hr it puts oil back to dump rather than out to the brake lube injectors to save 3/4 horsepower because the knew these new engines were goin to have torque problems.. is yours the 50 km or 40km transmission.2 mins with a lap top changes it to 50 km.. its a better job because your engine revs are higher when you come on hills and it has a bit of bite to get over them..the torque just doesnt seem to be there espeically when these new engines are cold.. kevin pryce is only a sales guy you want one of the service managers out of sdf uk.. you should keep at them im sure the will get it rite.. deutz is one of the best tractors on the market. excellent reliability [espcially mark 3 agrotrons, new ones not proven yet but im sure the will prove themselves}

leitrim lad

i see what you mean cwlad, but i was never a big fan of zf transmissions, i always taught they were ****e tbh,

do you know if a jd can be changed from 40k to 50k with the laptop, like that?

cwlad

no not dat i no of because its a different gearin to make a fifty km/hr in a jd.. in a deutz its de same gearbox your just restrictin the engine rpm in top gear so you can do 44 km/hr in "s" split and 1800 rpm!! i would agree on ya in older zf gearbox not could but de have them pretty well sorted now.. was on one the other day wit 8800 hours and it hadnt been split yet so that cant be bad but you ll find the operator is alot of it to..

leitrim lad

im basing my opinion on the deici teleporters, and the cheap loading sovels that entered the market in the last 10, 15 years mainly from the far east, and tbh they should have left them in the far east, they had zf

but a hino lorry has zf transmission and at one stage i had a fleet of them im down to 2 now ,and i never had a problem with the tranny in them,

are the new duetz the same as a ,same, lamborgini,hurliman, or have they sold off the subsidaries again, i have a few sames and they are a great horse, right back to the jag100 5 cylinder and the leapord 90 turbo, and the silver ,laser, 100, all great tractors if you keep a careful driver on them,

cwlad

it depends wat model you buy but yes the are the one..irons,r6s,hurlimann xl are all agrotrons really and built in the deutz factory in germany.. the new same explorer,hurlimann xb max,deutz agrofarm and lamborgini equivalant is a mix of both it has a deutz engine with a SLH [same,lamborgini,hurlimann] backend and frontaxle and is built in the original SLH factory in italy..it was SLH that bought deutz and joined together and are know called the SAME-DEUTZ FAHR group or SDF.. oh them deicis one word.... SCRAP haha..

mossfort

i bought a new deutz agrotron k100 back in 2006.
it has the 40k box but i think it can be programed up to 50k.
the engine seems to be the same as in the k120, can the engine be programed to give more horsepower?

bk1991

mossfort wrote: »

i bought a new deutz agrotron k100 back in 2006.
it has the 40k box but i think it can be programed up to 50k.
the engine seems to be the same as in the k120, can the engine be programed to give more horsepower?

id say it can be done

deutz610

hello
if you are having problems with the engine been sluggish or under power i would look into it a bit more i have an agrotron 610 and had serious problems with the engine torque it is still not fixed i had the engine chipped but that did not even make a difference i also had 3 engine programmes put into it by deutz but with no success they can be programmed up to 50k but dealers are reluctant to do this in case of comebacks down the line if something serious happens and i kind of agree with them .

hrta

Just a thought, chap out my way, had the same problem, with his tractor, turned out, it was the diesel viscosity, that he had put in the tank.

Casinoking

mossfort wrote: »

i bought a new deutz agrotron k100 back in 2006.
it has the 40k box but i think it can be programed up to 50k.
the engine seems to be the same as in the k120, can the engine be programed to give more horsepower?

I had a K120 reprogrammed to 50K a couple of years ago, not a big deal for anyone with a Deutz computer, you just reprogramme the transmission. The power is a bit more complicated, you need a new engine programme for that

mossfort

no theres nothing wrong with the engine just could use a bit more power for trailer work etc.
it seems to be a very reliable tractor so far apart from a few door hinge pins dropping out and a bonnet mounting bracket which was replaced under warranty.
the tranmission filters and the power steering filters are very expensive to replace and i think i was quoted 350 euros for one of the air filters so they,ll have to get a good blast of the airhose.

Slidey

Don't blow an airfilter with an airline. The high pressure damages the paper membrane.

You can get them washed and the come back perfect. You may have to but one as a spare. Donaldson probably do a spurious one for it for a 1/4 of the price

Casinoking

I thought the K120 was a good little tractor and I couldn't fault it really. We put 900 hours on it in a year and it gave no trouble apart from a couple of niggly oil leaks which were more the dealers fault than the tractor. Unfortunately I had my doubts about it from the beginning, I always preferred 6 cylinders once you go over 100hp and despite the salesman's assurances to the contrary about this fantastic new engine I was proved right. I had a bit of a restructure and changed it for an Agrotron 150, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it as a farmer's tractor for grassland work and I'd say it would be a great loader tractor.

hebbe

I've read through this thread and thought to fill in with some Swedish problem I had with a new Deutz-Fahr Agrofarm 100. Both the Agrofarm and since 2008 also the Agrotron K is built in Treviglio, Italy. Assembly in Italy is a bit of various qualities. Here is an example of how they mounted the fuel hose to the engine on my tractor; it took almost a year before I discovered the problem:



The tractor has also had some serious errors in the German Deutz BF4M-2012C engine during the first 500 h which I've managed to use the tractor. I complained quite promptly at the weak power. When I was driving at road speeds it could drop below 28 km/h in a small hill with an empty wagon. My old 100 hp tractor was not affected at all in the same hill? I discovered pretty quickly that farmers in the UK, Germany and Austria had the same problem with DF Agrofarm and indeed it was <75 hp when I measured the PTO power of a rival workshop. Then my DF workshop and the importer just before has assured me that the Deutz had the right power and everything was ok and they were completely unwilling to do anything about the problem. After that I hired legal help and the tractor had to travel back to the Swedish importer. They seem to have a non-existent support from the factory and the only help they receive is really from Deutz-Fahr UK who also thought the power was ok!
Then the Swedish importer makes a totally improper adjustment :mad: of the power and might it just to give more power at around 1500 rpm. 100 h later collapsed the turbo and a few hours later with a new turbo, the oil pressure started to falter, then I ignored the poor Swedish / UK service and contacted http://www.deutzuk.com (in Sweden: http://www.dieselmotornordic.com) who made the correct adjustment. In my case in the mechanical controller (Agrofarm 100 has no electronic control). After that the engine is fantastic, it falters not at all in velocity of the weak up hill = 40 km/h and moreover it is no trimming, it's simply the right adjustment and I think the fuel consumption also has been lower than it was before ...
http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=332675

Slidey

Nice post Hebbe, good to hear you got it sorted in the end

deutz 135

just wondering would any 1 know where there is deutz 135 scraped looking for a few bits