Irish National Team Sabotage

Bandit12

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I reckon if we made the play-offs he'd consider making himself available. I'd be fine with that situation.

Would make me sick if that happenend..genuinley sick.

The Rooster

Tyranax wrote: »

He's still a massive step up on f***ing Whelan and Andrews. Jesus, I DREAM of a midfield of Carlsley and Andy Reid, or Steven Reid. We'd have engine, drive and creativity then, not two wastes of space in the middle. That's what's driving me mad.

Honest ta Jaysus, people who say Carsley is better than Whelan and Andrews must know feck all.

At his peak, Carsely was a decent/good midfielder for Ireland for about 3 years. For years before that he was mediocre, and had plenty of poor games for us, and now he's past his peak. He'd do fine as a filler-in if Whelan and Andrews were injured, but he's simply not as good as either of them.

Andy Reid is not good enough to play in a 2 man centre midfield for Ireland. End of story. He's not fast enough to be a winger, which is why Trap doesnt pick him, and why he's often on the bench at mighty Sunderland. To start Andy Reid you need to be playing a rubbish team like Norwich, or you need to change your formation. No question though that he should be in the squad.

Stephen Ireland has NEVER played well for Ireland at centre midfield. His good performances have come on the right side of midfield, which is where he was almost always played for Ireland. A good example of when he was experimented with at centre midfied came in Nicosia when we got beat 5-2, and we were totally overrun in midfield.

Ireland didnt play centre midfield for City last year, but he seems to be playing there this year. So it will be very interesting to see how he develops in that role and whether he can bring the defensive/tackling element to his game that is crucial for all international standard central midfielders.

A fit Steven Reid is Ireland's best central midfielder.

ctrl-alt-delete

The Rooster wrote: »

A fit Steven Reid is Ireland's best central midfielder.

It's just a pity there is no such thing.

LuckyLloyd

Great post The Rooster.

BaZmO*

darkman2 wrote: »

As an Irish supporter I fear another drubbing to Cyprus will be what it takes to wake them up....and I think Ireland will again be beaten by Cyprus.

The fact that you've said (twice) that Ireland will be on the end of another drubbing shows you haven't a clue what you're talking about. Teams under Trapattoni don't get drubbed. His teams are not set up that way.

Trap (for his faults) has set up a fairly solid system and I doubt that there's a player in the team that doesn't know what's required of him when he goes out to play a game. That is not something you could've said during our last campaign.

I don't know what his exact comments were with regards to wanting to Italy to qualify first, but it's very possible that they were lost in translation. I'd say what he meant was that Italy (the World Champions) are quite possibly, maybe, perhaps, more likely to qualify as group leaders (and he might actually have a point :rolleyes:) and that we need to concentrate on the other teams around us in the group.

Johnny Utah

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sorry, I remain unconvinced by the Andy Reid love. He isn't holding down a starting spot for his team. Andrews and Whelan have been. Moreover, it seems to me that he is down the pecking order when it comes to the next midfielders in. I'd be more worried about the likes of McCann, Delap and Carsley not being selected before I'd start worrying about Reid.

And to Eirebhoy, fair play to him if he's finally got himself into respectable shape. But it says a lot if he's only doing it now after years of speculation over his physical fitness and conditioning, no? Additionally, people were lining up last year to tell us that he wasn't out of shape, that it was his "shape", he was fit enough, etc.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

I agree with the above. The real problem with Ireland at present is that we desperately need Stephen Reid to get himself fit and stay injury free. We also need another quality midfielder and a solid left-back. The truth is Trap has done a great job with a medicore bunch of players. I don't think it's fair that everyone is critiscising Trap on his squad selection either, because if you look at the suggestions, they're all marginal calls- players who probably wouldn't even feature in the competitive matches. If Stephen Reid becomes available, he will be put straight into the team, and Liam Miller will probably be the one to be dropped from the squad.

I agree also that Trap should be looking, first and foremost, at the likes of McCann, Delap and Carsley in his squad, but as I said, they are all marginal calls. Delaney/Nolan at left-back is another area to look at and both should have got more game time in the recent friendlies over the summer.


Regarding Andy Reid; I read the piece in the Indo and it's good to see him get himself fit, but he's a luxury which we don't really need under the present system. If he did play in the Irish team, he would probably be best suited to playing behind the front two, or maybe filling Robbie Keanes' role but there's no chance that's gonna happen. So, realistically, A Reid's best position would be an attacking midfielder behind the front two- this would mean playing a 5 man midfield, but I can't see Trap changing his system that drastically and tbh I can understand why it's important to have consistency in the same system. A Reid, imo, is the type of player you can use against the lesser teams (Cyprus, Georgia, etc) at home in a 5 man midfield. However, I seem to remember that Reid threw a bit of a sulk the last time he was named on the bench, and there's also the ridiculous media circus surrounding his exclusion, so maybe Trap thinks he's more trouble than he's worth.

5starpool

darkman2 wrote: »

Well in answer to the Stephen Ireland should pick up the phone brigade watch this

Now you guys tell me, thats a midfielder - look at that goal, tell me we don't need that guy.

Stephen Ireland is a fantastic player, I don't think anyone is denying that. However, whatever the reasons behind it were (and I have heard some of the rumours) I believe at this point it is up to him to say that he wants to play for Ireland again. There have been approaches in the past, there have been public noises saying how he is a fantastic player who would be a welcome addition to the squad.

BUT - and this is a big but -if he only comes back because people grovel at his feet and make him feel special, then that is not the right reason for it and he is liable to quit again when someone makes fun of him or he doesn't like something. This is not the solution. He has to want to come back, and he has gven no sign that he wants to do this.

stovelid

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And to Eirebhoy, fair play to him if he's finally got himself into respectable shape. But it says a lot if he's only doing it now after years of speculation over his physical fitness and conditioning, no?

Probably had a lot to do with the fact that a new club manager came in too.

dogpile

dyl10 wrote: »

Class? a good performance against a league 1 side hardly constitutes a level of greatness. Why people keep debating Andy Reid's ability is beyond me. He's been around for years, everyone should know by now what you get with him.

You know what you get with Glen Whelan also and it's not nearly enough, will never be enough...Andrews I have a bit more time for but with better players around him....Gibson is just potential still, nowhere near ready.....I wouldn't even pass comment on Miller

herbieflowers

Reid, Ireland etc. Who cares?

Ireland are second behind Italy, second with Italy still to play here! After the shambles that was the Staunton era when facing San Marino was an uphill struggle, that's good progress.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

PCros

Even if we were first in the group we'd still have the same people complaining.

LowOdour

Out of all the midfielders I think its safe to say that Steven Reid is the main one we all need back - much more than Steven Ireland.
Having Ireland back would be such a blessing as we dont have any major creativity in the team imho. Id be happy with him playing left or right midfield, not necessarily in the center. Andrews is decent enough, and would help having S.Reid beside him.

Andy Reid - i understand peoples reservations on him but I am a big fan of the guy. His goals last night (regardless of the opposition) were brilliantly taken. What impressed me more was the yards he made to get them, saw him sprint for first time in a long time.

If Ireland need to change a game, would you prefer to see Miller or Gibson coming off the bench instead or Reid? Anybody who says yes needs their head examined. He has that bit of magic that the other 2 dont possess

SantryRed

PCros wrote: »

Even if we were first in the group we'd still have the same people complaining.

Why in Ireland can't you expect the best? This underdog thing is a load of bollocks. The way circumstances have gone we should be coasting away with this group, top by at least 3 points, but instead we're 2nd and aren't going to catch Italy.

whatawaster

LowOdour wrote: »

If Ireland need to change a game, would you prefer to see Miller or Gibson coming off the bench instead or Reid? Anybody who says yes needs their head examined. He has that bit of magic that the other 2 dont possess

this is it.
Gibson, Miller, Whelan and Andrews are, to me, all the same player. Work hard, average passers, can't get any grip on the game at all.
Andy Reid, for all his faults, is something different. So is Lee Carsley. Both should at least be in the squad for that reason

RGDATA!

OP, I think you're out of order. you've made a lot of accusations and assumptions here without any evidence, so I would challenge you to back up what you're saying

darkman2 wrote: »

So another week goes by - another week of lies and fcukwittery from the Irish Management set up. We were told Trapattoni would meet Ireland at Eastlands to talk sense into him - what does Mark Hughes say - "I did not even know he (Trapattoni) was in the stadium". Im fed up with this crap as an Irish supporter.

we were told this? by who?

darkman2 wrote: »

Can't speak to Stephen Ireland? This guy is being paid 2 million a year in this job and he can't pick up a phone? He can't even meet him after he plays a football match? Our, by far, only potential world class player and he could not be bothered?

what basis do you have for saying that he "couldn't be bothered"/"can't pick up a phone". maybe you know more than the rest of us but if not i don't think you can make that kind of judgement.

darkman2 wrote: »

We find ourselves in a posistion now were we are hurdling toward another "Cyprus moment" and our two best players are absent.

are you really saying that andy reid is one of our two best players?

darkman2 wrote: »

They have probrably not, as the papers say, spoken to either at all. Yet both players claim it would only take a phone call.

where did Ireland claim it would only take a phonecall?

eirebhoy

dyl10 wrote: »

On another note, Andy Reid is being ridiculously over hyped because of this long running saga. He's not good enough to start for us. At this stage Fahey would be a better option for us in the middle.

That's like the people that tell me I overhype McGeady because I constantly tell Irish people about his performances for Celtic, thinking it'd be of interest. Reid is not overhyped. He's just talked about a lot.

TheGreenGiant

Steven Reid is the man we need back in central midfield. Such a solid player and his passing is quick and precise to the forwards. Who cares about Steven Ireland. The guy is been payed buckets of money week in week out and he won't play for his country. That just shows you his mentality to his country and the game. Why people want him back in the side is beyond me. Trap is right. He can't force him to play. If he won't play, leave him. Simple as that!! When we get to South Africa I hope he is sitting at home wishing he was on the pitch playing for us. I hope he doesn't come back. Doesn't deserve to play in the team let alone for his country!

Trap is building a new team of young players. He needs them to gain experience in international football for the years to come. And the team structure looks good. Midfield is the problem. We need Steven Reid back in the fold

Quint

I think people are confusing Andy Reid with Xavi/Pirlo/Alonso. He's actually not that good.

BaZmO*

SantryRed wrote: »

Why in Ireland can't you expect the best? This underdog thing is a load of bollocks.

Because you have to be realistic. Ireland are ranked 37 in the world and haven't qualified for a tournament since 2002. Italy are ranked 5th and are the current world champions.

SantryRed wrote: »

The way circumstances have gone we should be coasting away with this group, top by at least 3 points, but instead we're 2nd and aren't going to catch Italy.

But you can't really look at it like that. It's fair enough saying that it certain games we should've got more out of the game and if we had of we'd be top of our group, but you have to balance it with the games we were lucky to get away with any sort of a result.

Football is a results game and so far Trap's results are extremely positive considering where we were a couple of years ago.

eirebhoy

Quint wrote: »

I think people are confusing Andy Reid with Xavi/Pirlo/Alonso. He's actually not that good.

Who is? Talent wise, brain wise, Reid is on the level of Duff and Keane. I'm sure they love playing beside him. I think no matter what Irish players we had available from the current lot, if played in the right system Reid would be dictating the play.

Whatever people think of the bonus points in the fantasy football, they're judged by ex-pro's and they are generally pretty accurate. In his first half season with Sunderland Reid got 15 bonus points. At the time only Fabregas had a better rate of bonus points and he plays for a top team. Reid was dominating games for Sunderland against much better teams than Norwich and I think they would have been relegated without him.

Before that he was Charlton's main man in the premiership and then Championship and made captain playing in the centre of a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1.

He didn't play in the centre at all last season and maybe that was to do with him putting on some weight that he had to lose over this summer because he certainly wasn't always overweight.

He looks back to his best based on last night and if he is then he's good enough for Ireland. Nobody is calling him world class but he has produced world class performances, according to Bobby Robson anyway.

TheGreenGiant

yep couldn't agree more. Hunt is a much better player and he is improving all the time. We just have to give them time to mature. Rome wasn't built in a day! If we go out to Cyprus with a good game plan and just pass the ball about and no messing we can easily score 2 goals. You just need to be level headed and professional, everything else will fall into place

ADTR

Quint wrote: »

I think people are confusing Andy Reid with Xavi/Pirlo/Alonso. He's actually not that good.

He's more a Kaka/Ronaldo/Messi. :rolleyes:

mormank

is steven reid getting over hyped here? imo he is. some people make it sound like he is all we are missing from winning the world cup!!!

i think perhaps trap should experiment a bit more with his squad. im not talking wholesale changes or anything just a player here and there perhaps..his squads seem to be almost identical, as though he is managaing a national team on football manager whilst also managing a club side!!

gosplan

darkman2 wrote: »

So another week goes by - another week of lies and fcukwittery from the Irish Management set up. We were told Trapattoni would meet Ireland at Eastlands to talk sense into him - what does Mark Hughes say - "I did not even know he (Trapattoni) was in the stadium". Im fed up with this crap as an Irish supporter.

Andy Reid - absent for no reason - a player who actually has a team and a gifted midfielder (behind Stephen Ireland our most gifted) and no where to be seen.

We have a manager who "would not mind Italy going through" first - yeah well your the manager of the fcuking Republic of Ireland, not Italy. Can't speak to Stephen Ireland? This guy is being paid 2 million a year in this job and he can't pick up a phone? He can't even meet him after he plays a football match? Our, by far, only potential world class player and he could not be bothered?

Liam Brady knows Stephen Ireland and Andy Reid - how is he standing over this stupidity, that im telling you now, is going to cost us a World Cup place.

We find ourselves in a posistion now were we are hurdling toward another "Cyprus moment" and our two best players are absent. They have probrably not, as the papers say, spoken to either at all. Yet both players claim it would only take a phone call.


This is sabotage. Who can stand over, with a straight face, having Keith Andrews and Glen Whelan in midfield instead of Ireland and Reid. Any other National team manager would be going all out to get them back....yet from our management - nothing. Even one of them would suffice.


Seriosuly wtf is going on? This is crazy carry on - id have expected more from Steve Staunton tbh!

Joke of a post IMO. Really, about as bad as I've seen on boards and that's saying something.

S.Ireland quit the national team when he was a kid playing for Kerr. Imagine being 16 years old and choosing not to represent your country abroad?

S.Ireland refused to play for Kerr at senior level.

S.Ireland again quit the national team when Staunton was in charge.

You reckon that Ireland isn't playing as Trap can't be 'bothered' to meet him or pick up a phone? What about the last 10 years?

dyl10

eirebhoy wrote: »

That's like the people that tell me I overhype McGeady because I constantly tell Irish people about his performances for Celtic, thinking it'd be of interest. Reid is not overhyped. He's just talked about a lot.

I have to disagree.
Many people seem to be heralding Andy Reid as Ireland's saviour at this stage.

Tyranax

The Rooster wrote: »

Honest ta Jaysus, people who say Carsley is better than Whelan and Andrews must know feck all.

That'd be me then. Come on. You think he isn't? Watch this season. If all three stay injury free, I guarantee you that Carsley will do more for his club than Andrews or Whelan will.

The Rooster wrote: »

At his peak, Carsely was a decent/good midfielder for Ireland for about 3 years. For years before that he was mediocre, and had plenty of poor games for us, and now he's past his peak. He'd do fine as a filler-in if Whelan and Andrews were injured, but he's simply not as good as either of them.

Strongly disagree, but that's opinion, let's move on to the next point.

The Rooster wrote: »

Andy Reid is not good enough to play in a 2 man centre midfield for Ireland.

Whoah! So Whelan and Andrews are? Reid can pass, unlike those two. He has an engine too, he's not fat and unfit like he was at Spurs, and he hasn't been like that for a good while now.

The Rooster wrote: »

End of story. He's not fast enough to be a winger, which is why Trap doesnt pick him, and why he's often on the bench at mighty Sunderland.

Reid isn't fast enough to be winger is correct. We'll see how often Bruce picks him this season. A midfield of Cattermole and Cana is hardly swimming in it's own creative juices.

The Rooster wrote: »

To start Andy Reid you need to be playing a rubbish team like Norwich, or you need to change your formation. No question though that he should be in the squad.

Let me ask you this then. If Reid had been playing against Bulgaria or Cyprus when we played them before, would we have been as overrun? Or lost the ball as cheaply? I don't think so anyway. And why shouldn't we look to a change in formation? A 4-5-1 with Reid in the hole behind Keane and Carsley and Steven Reid in midfield would be ideal, I think. We might actually have a bit of possession and shape the pattern of play then, control the game more.

The Rooster wrote: »

Stephen Ireland has NEVER played well for Ireland at centre midfield. His good performances have come on the right side of midfield, which is where he was almost always played for Ireland. A good example of when he was experimented with at centre midfied came in Nicosia when we got beat 5-2, and we were totally overrun in midfield.

Ireland didnt play centre midfield for City last year, but he seems to be playing there this year. So it will be very interesting to see how he develops in that role and whether he can bring the defensive/tackling element to his game that is crucial for all international standard central midfielders.

I would be willing to put Steven Ireland in the middle. If we were playing 4-5-1 and he had Carsley and either Reid beside him. Craft there again, and Ireland would be a goal threat breaking from deep. I will be very interested too in how he develops at City this year.

The Rooster wrote: »

A fit Steven Reid is Ireland's best central midfielder.

Agree totally on the Steven Reid point. Please God, please, please, please let him be fit for just twelve months from when he starts playing again.

lordgoat

The main problem i have is that our manager is being a bit too stubborn.
I think Andy Reid is a decent player and deserves a place in the squad, i'm not saying he should start every game. I'm not saying he's the the saviour. I'm saying he deserves a chance. Basing this on preseason and after the norwich game, where he was by far the best player on the pitch. Ignore the fact that it was Norwich, you can only judge him on the team he was playing against and from that and preseason i think he has warranted at least a call up.

The S Ireland thing, i'm sick of it, i'd love Trapp to come out and say something like 'if a player has not been involved in the campaign already then they have no chance of making the squad til after the WC'

That said, we still are in a great position and if we can sort the midfield out for Cyprus we have an excellent chance. I think this is the weakest Italy team for a while and i'd love to see how they do if we were top when we play them next.

eirebhoy

mormank wrote: »

is steven reid getting over hyped here? imo he is. some people make it sound like he is all we are missing from winning the world cup!!!

Would you stop it's you people doing the bloody exaggerating.

Esse85

He looked like he lost a nice bit of weight last night. Scored 2 good goals too.

Keep it up Andy

redzerdrog

you really felt that it deserved a new thread because a professional footballer is no longer fat any more

kippy

Esse85 wrote: »

He looked like he lost a nice bit of weight last night. Scored 2 good goals too.

Keep it up Andy

Some of the mates were on about this today.
I reckon it was Photoshop or some plastic surgery that did the trick.

Seriously if he is shaping up, that can only be a good thing for Ireland.

pokerface_me

Esse85 wrote: »

He looked like he lost a nice bit of weight last night. Scored 2 good goals too.

Keep it up Andy

Yeah played very well last night, gives Trap a headache he can't ignore that type of talent and it would be nice to see Reid back in an Ireland shirt doing what he does best.

kippy

redzerdrog wrote: »

you really felt that it deserved a new thread because a professional footballer is no longer fat any more

Theres threads in here on far less apt topics.

Reid has been the butt of jokes for ages.

mormank

pics of him in a calvin klein's boxer shorts ad or it didnt happen!!!

Bobalicious93

And the Gayest thread of the year award goes to...

event

Personally I think it's a disgrace, it means he was a stone and a half overweight, which is a disgrace for a pl footballer

Trap was dead right not to pick him

Esse85

Typical reaction from some people.

Eire-Dearg

Fair play to Andy, he badly needed to lose some of that weight as it was hindering his chances to play for club and country.

He's gonna be vital for the ROI in the remaining qualifiers, and of course next summer along with Ireland and Steve Reid.

Our midfield isn't actually shit when you add those three into it.

syngindub

still reckon he still needs to loose a few pounds

stovelid

It's known as the SLIM (Shed Lipids for Incoming Manager) diet.

Its long-term effectiveness has often been called into question.

JPA

Eire-Dearg wrote: »

Fair play to Andy, he badly needed to lose some of that weight as it was hindering his chances to play for club and country.

He's gonna be vital for the ROI in the remaining qualifiers, and of course next summer along with Ireland and Steve Reid.

Our midfield isn't actually shit when you add those three into it.

He has to be bloody picked first, which he won't be.

Esse85

He lost 9kg

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8730_5512108,00.html

CHD

Esse85 wrote: »

He lost 9kg

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8730_5512108,00.html

He shouldn't have had to lose weight though, Do you see why he hasn't been included now?

deadhead13

Whatever he is doing, it appears to be working. He scored 2 good goals last night. You can see them at goalsarena.com - they are the 2nd and 3rd goals.

orourkeda

Didnt he do the same thing last year? He was overweight and shed some weight at the beginning of last season.

syngindub

what will he be like when he stops playing?

orourkeda

syngindub wrote: »

what will he be like when he stops playing?

Billy Bunter

Mr Alan

i'm confused.

i thought he wasn't fat in the first place? that he was just naturally that size?

seems to me, El Trap was dead right not to pick a lad who was struggling to get a game at club level & clearly overweight & at the time not bothered to get into shape for the qualifying campaign.

Eire-Dearg

Mr Alan wrote: »

i'm confused.

i thought he wasn't fat in the first place? that he was just naturally that size?

seems to me, El Trap was dead right not to pick a lad who was struggling to get a game at club level & clearly overweight & at the time not bothered to get into shape for the qualifying campaign.

IIRC he called up Glen Whelan while he was a reserve at Stoke.

Royale with Cheese

When he puts it all back on there should be a thread created called Andy Reid looking a lot fatter.