Liverpool v Aston Villa Match Thread

Kingdom

rossie1977 wrote: »

grimandi :eek: and bruce rioch signed bergkamp

Grimandi done alright for Arsene, he's sourced about 75% of their first team squad as it is.;)
as for Bergkamp, ah well, we all get one wrong.

Headshot

when that third villa goal went in

Liverpool just dropped,gave up

which is very surprising and especially at home

rossie1977

The Muppet wrote: »

Rafa has spent circa £78 million on players in the last two seasons.

and brought in the same amount in sales last two seasons, whats your point??

CivilServant

rarnes1 wrote: »

So does that mean if we beat Burnley in 2 weeks we should be handed the league??

It means games like this are the bread and butter of title winning teams, and if you can't beat teams like this on a regular basis then you can't win the league.

Tyranax

I don't think that they gave up, didn't Torres have a good chance around the '88 mark? Liverpool did start to lose the rag a bit after the third goal though. Not that United were any better against Burnley, Rooney's rage riding again....

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

when that third villa goal went in

Liverpool just dropped,gave up

which is very surprising and especially at home

In fairness after the first 20mins we were never in it.

We didn't even deserve our goal when we got it imo.

M5

Headshot wrote: »

when that third villa goal went in

Liverpool just dropped,gave up

which is very surprising and especially at home

I dunno, they had worked so hard and deservedly got a foothold and then they got a hammer blow. It takes a lot to take that on the chin and carry on! personally i'd be crushed, although 75k a week and a win bonus may slightly alter my perspective

rossie1977

CivilServant wrote: »

You need to wait up to reality, we lost to Villa, at home with nearly full strength squad. Villa who lost to Wigan at home, who got thumped 5-0 by Utd. What excuses are there if the aspiration is to win the title?

stupidest argument ever

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

using the most commonly quoted transfer prices, rafa has made a profit in the transfer market over that period.

even if you use the highest transfer prices quoted, i think it works out at about 5m net spend in the same period.

Rafa is working with his hands tied behind his back big time & still bringing the team forward.

As someone already pointed out, are Utd out of the title race if Arsenal beat em at the weekend? no, they are not, nor are we after tonight, but we have to improve.

Quoted where ?

Fact is Rafa has spent nearly eighty million pounds on players in the last 2 seasons.

If United lose to Arsenal at the weekend it will be very difficult for them to win the title this year IMO. Chelsea Arsenal and Tottenham all look stronger than last season.

ob

noodler wrote: »

You see anybody still using the 'Kuyt is crap' argument that was popular 3 years ago loses all respect in my opinion.

How many goals did he score from his position last year do you know?

Was it his fault in particular that we finished 4 points off the pace last season?

I'm not saying he's crap at all, he works his socks off everytime he plays. I just don't think he has the quality to be a right winger in team that wants to challange for the title.

I do think Voronin & Lucas are crap though.

noodler

ob wrote: »

I'm not saying he's crap at all, he works his socks off everytime he plays. I just don't think he has the quality to be a right winger in team that wants to challange for the title.

So who was the impersonator playing on the right last season?

Headshot

can some one tell me why a Reira a proper winger wasn't brought on instead of babel

CivilServant

rossie1977 wrote: »

stupidest argument ever

Whats your take on it then? :rolleyes:

Kirby

The Muppet wrote: »

Quoted where ?

Fact is Rafa has spent nearly eighty million pounds on players in the last 2 seasons.

If United lose to Arsenal at the weekend it will be very difficult for them to win the title this year IMO. Chelsea Arsenal and Tottenham all look stronger than last season.

Spurs will likely fall away though. Great start that they have had, you won't challenge without a solid back four and theirs changes too much. If woodgate and King could play every game then it would help, but they can't. Also, Lennon, defoe, keane, modric are all quality. But they are very small in stature offensive in nature. I can see aresenal ripping them up a bit.

And regarding chelsea, don't forget they were 1 minute away from dropping points to hull.

marko91

The Muppet wrote: »

Quoted where ?

Fact is Rafa has spent nearly eighty million pounds on players in the last 2 seasons.

If United lose to Arsenal at the weekend it will be very difficult for them to win the title this year IMO. Chelsea Arsenal and Tottenham all look stronger than last season.

tottenham shouldnt be included their...they will not win the league, they will not break into the top 4!

noodler

noodler wrote: »

So who was the impersonator playing on the right last season?

His brother, Birk.

Mr.Nice Guy

Kirby wrote: »

And regarding chelsea, don't forget they were 1 minute away from dropping points to hull.

Yeah but they absolutely battered them.

I agree with you that Spurs will fall away. I think Arsenal will as well in the final stretch but I think Chelsea have the legs to push it all the way to the end.

Kirby

Yeh I would agree with that. They have the best squad.....by a mile. But my point stands. everybody looks like dropping points early this season. One or two losses wont end a challenge.

Picking the wrong team every week might though.

BERBA

Kirby wrote: »

And regarding chelsea, don't forget they were 1 minute away from dropping points to hull.

But they didnt did they?

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

Quoted where ?

In the media. Fact is, most transfer fees are undisclosed so this is where we find them out.

The Muppet wrote: »

Fact is Rafa has spent nearly eighty million pounds on players in the last 2 seasons.

Fact is, depending on figures quoted, Rafa has a net spend of **** all (couple of million) or made a profit in the last couple of years. Yet the team has improved.

The Muppet wrote: »

If United lose to Arsenal at the weekend it will be very difficult for them to win the title this year IMO.

Ok, well we agree then, i always thought it was going to be very difficult to win the title & was never expecting it to be easy. The season thus far has only confirmed that for me.

Liverpool had 11 draws & 2 losses last year-thats 28 points dropped. We've dropped 6 already this season. The league winners this year will finish on less than last year imo, so if we can get our **** together, we can still be right in it.

Cut out half the draws & only lose another couple of games this season & we'll be there or thereabouts again this year.

eddiehead

Mr Alan wrote: »

As someone already pointed out, are Utd out of the title race if Arsenal beat em at the weekend? no, they are not, nor are we after tonight, but we have to improve.

IMO, United need to improve too, they were rubbish in their first 2 games against sides they should be chewing up & spitting out. Then a lot of people got carried away with the big win at Wigan on Saturday and forgot what preceeded it.
I wouldn't go writing anybody off yet*

*I'm amazed I've had to say this in the third week in August

ob

noodler wrote: »

So who was the impersonator playing on the right last season?

Ok, let me re-phrase that, I don't think he has the quality to be in a title winning team.

RasTa

Any of all the goal highlights up yet?

Kirby

BERBA wrote: »

But they didnt did they?

No, a lucky cross went in. That won't happen every week. And the point is, nobody has looked invincible. Arsenal have looked the best so far, but against poor opposition its worth noting.

The Muppet

Kirby wrote: »

Spurs will likely fall away though.

marko91 wrote: »

tottenham shouldnt be included their...they will not win the league, they will not break into the top 4!

I wouldn'd be so sure about that. Harry has done a great job there and has made some excellent signings, they may stay the distance

Shane St.

Ah so annoyin.. we surely cant keep going with lucas n masch n da midfield.
http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2009/08/aston-villa-defeat-a-demoralised-liverpool/

M5

The Muppet wrote: »

I wouldn'd be so sure about that. Harry has done a great job there and has made some excellent signings, they may stay the distance

If they finish 5th it will be a massive achievement IMO

eddiehead

Kirby wrote: »

No, a lucky cross went in. That won't happen every week. And the point is, nobody has looked invincible. Arsenal have looked the best so far, but against poor opposition its worth noting.

Lucky my cock, how lucky were Hull to get to 92mins at 1-1? Defending desperately for the whole game.

Sorry mods, OT, carry on.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

In the media. Fact is, most transfer fees are undisclosed so this is where we find them out.



Fact is, depending on figures quoted, Rafa has a net spend of **** all (couple of million) or made a profit in the last couple of years. Yet the team has improved.



Ok, well we agree then, i always thought it was going to be very difficult to win the title & was never expecting it to be easy. The season thus far has only confirmed that for me.

Liverpool had 11 draws & 2 losses last year-thats 28 points dropped. We've dropped 6 already this season. The league winners this year will finish on less than last year imo, so if we can get our **** together, we can still be right in it.

Cut out half the draws & only lose another couple of games this season & we'll be there or thereabouts again this year.

Rafa has spent £80 million on players in the last two seasons , he has generated most of this money by selling players.

To say he has a zero net spend indicates he has had liile money to spend on players which is totally untrue. If I were to complain about Man Uniteds net spend of (minus) -£26 million in the last two seasons I expect I would be told they had actually spent £60 million on players.

Liverpool took a lot of points from Arsenal Chelsea and United last season, they must do the same this year now given their poor start, that's a big ask IMO.

Sorry for the off topic.

Kirby

eddiehead wrote: »

Lucky my cock, how lucky were Hull to get to 92mins at 1-1? Defending desperately for the whole game.

Sorry mods, OT, carry on.

Ah come on. That cross was lucky as sin. I felt a bit sorry for Hull after holding chelsea at bay for so long, to be undone like that was a bit harsh. Better team won though, so I suppose it works both ways.

BERBA

Kirby wrote: »

Ah come on. That cross was lucky as sin. I felt a bit sorry for Hull after holding chelsea at bay for so long, to be undone like that was a bit harsh. Better team won though, so I suppose it works both ways.

Chelsea didnt win that game by luck. They battered em for 94 mins. They look up for it this season and probably wont drop that many points.

COYS

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

To say he has a zero net spend indicates he has had liile money to spen on players which it totally untrue.

nonsense, to say he had zero net spend, indicates exactly that, that he has had zero money to spend without bringing the same monies back into the club.

last 2 summers he has been forced to sell in order to buy, while throwing to wrestle a crown Utd have held consistantly for the last 20 years.

Its a tough task i think you'll agree.

The Muppet wrote: »

If I were to complaine about Man Uniteds net spend of (minus) -£26 million in the last two seasons I would expect I would be told they had actually spent £60 million on players

The Utd figure is skewed a little because of the ridiculous Ronaldo fee.

Also, Utd were the team in the position of strength, a team that has been on top for a couple of decades. the more important comparison is not the money Utd have spent to add to a championship winning squad, but in fact the money SAF spent in order to get the club into that situation, which was a ridiculous amount, breaking all sorts of records. Something i don't think Rafa & our american custodians are able to do.

again, i'm not making excuses, i'm quite happy with the way the club is going because we clearly are catching up on you. tonights result won't change that imo.

I'm off to sleep now, in case you think i'm just ignoring you if you respond to this, if you want PM me & we'll discuss it further tomorrow if work ain't too busy! but lets try not derail this thread anymore.

DenMan

I don't know which is fcuking worse, the continued opening of this thread or the Liverpool supporters who want their team to do well while only having one eye opened.

I used to hear stories from both my Grandfather and my Father about the great Liverpool teams of the past. The 60's, 70's and 80's and all the trophies that went along with it in those eras. Liverpool are a phenomenal legend in world football and in England are the gods of the game. I'm an Arsenal fan by the way and grew up watching my team play beautiful football and win trophies.....specifically titles. However as a club we had a barren history really. The 1930's and 1970's were great for Arsenal and that's it. Before we won the league in 1998 it was 9 years previous the last time we won it (on goal difference against Liverpool), and before that it was the early 1970's.

Liverpool fans need to wake up and realise that Man Utd looked at them and built their huge success on Liverpool. They are the benchmark. Liverpool as a club are falling backwards. Last season was brilliant but looking at their over all squad they are struggling and Rafa Benitez is not the man to lead them forward. Any die hard Liverpool fan would say that but they are so used to not winning the league now. What's it been, almost 20 years!!!! wtf the Liverpool of old would never tolerate that. They need to get back to where they should be. The only man who can help them is Mourinho. He is a winner and knows the English game so well. When was the last time Chelsea won the league before he became manager? He had the money yes....but he also had a winning mentality and a ruthlessness about him that turned into success. Benitez is not even close.

I heard that with 10 mins left or so and Liverpool 3-1 down at home he was bringing on Voronin to change the game. Let's be serious about this....Andrei Voronin, a good striker in the Bundesliga but at the highest league in Europe I don't think so. Liverpool seriously need to look at themselves as a club and realise that enough is enough and it's time for a change. Some Liverpool fans said "it's only early...sure we've only lost 2 games (out of 3) and Chelsea haven't dropped any points yet". There is a reason why they haven't and the trend will continue. They take a man who won both two league titles and two European Cups (Champions League) both as a player and as a manager and bring him in as their new manager. That's a winning mentality. Arsenal look strong now, they are back to what they used to do....tracking back, winning the ball, midfielders scoring goals and it is playing dividends for them.

Any Liverpool fan would consider losing 3-1 at home to a team they win against for fun (minus Barry) an insult. Rafa is not the man to lead Liverpool forward. He lost the mental war against Fergie last year. Would Mourinho have taken out a piece of paper during a live press conference and start babbling "facts". I don't think so.

Hoki

eddiehead wrote: »

Lucky my cock, how lucky were Hull to get to 92mins at 1-1? Defending desperately for the whole game.

Sorry mods, OT, carry on.

well for a team who had only won 1 game in 2009 they are hardly gonna adopt an all out attcking formation at stamford bridge are they :rolleyes:

bUILDERtHEbOB

Don't want Mourinho anywhere near Liverpool thanks.

There is no point in even contemplating having a new manager until our owners are gone IMO, because if a new man did come in, he'd have absolutely no money to build a new team.

Mr Alan

DenMan wrote: »

I don't know which is fcuking worse, the continued opening of this thread or the Liverpool supporters who want their team to do well while only having one eye opened.

I used to hear stories from both my Grandfather and my Father about the great Liverpool teams of the past. The 60's, 70's and 80's and all the trophies that went along with it in those eras. Liverpool are a phenomenal legend in world football and in England are the gods of the game. I'm an Arsenal fan by the way and grew up watching my team play beautiful football and win trophies.....specifically titles. However as a club we had a barren history really. The 1930's and 1970's were great for Arsenal and that's it. Before we won the league in 1998 it was 9 years previous the last time we won it (on goal difference against Liverpool), and before that it was the early 1970's.

Liverpool fans need to wake up and realise that Man Utd looked at them and built their huge success on Liverpool. They are the benchmark. Liverpool as a club are falling backwards. Last season was brilliant but looking at their over all squad they are struggling and Rafa Benitez is not the man to lead them forward. Any die hard Liverpool fan would say that but they are so used to not winning the league now. What's it been, almost 20 years!!!! wtf the Liverpool of old would never tolerate that. They need to get back to where they should be. The only man who can help them is Mourinho. He is a winner and knows the English game so well. When was the last time Chelsea won the league before he became manager? He had the money yes....but he also had a winning mentality and a ruthlessness about him that turned into success. Benitez is not even close.

I heard that with 10 mins left or so and Liverpool 3-1 down at home he was bringing on Voronin to change the game. Let's be serious about this....Andrei Voronin, a good striker in the Bundesliga but at the highest league in Europe I don't think so. Liverpool seriously need to look at themselves as a club and realise that enough is enough and it's time for a change. Some Liverpool fans said "it's only early...sure we've only lost 2 games (out of 3) and Chelsea haven't dropped any points yet". There is a reason why they haven't and the trend will continue. They take a man who won both two league titles and two European Cups (Champions League) both as a player and as a manager and bring him in as their new manager. That's a winning mentality. Arsenal look strong now, they are back to what they used to do....tracking back, winning the ball, midfielders scoring goals and it is playing dividends for them.

Any Liverpool fan would consider losing 3-1 at home to a team they win against for fun (minus Barry) an insult. Rafa is not the man to lead Liverpool forward. He lost the mental war against Fergie last year. Would Mourinho have taken out a piece of paper during a live press conference and start babbling "facts". I don't think so.

I disagree with nearly every single point in this post.

but i just wanna respond to point one thing out to you.

listening?

When Rafa got the Liverpool job, the canditates were......



...Gordon Strachan.....


.......Alan Curbishly......

and .......... Rafa.

When the americans were on the verge of sacking the Rafa, they were going to get Klinsmann, their reasoning? he had good contacts at the marketing department in Adidas (thats not even a joke, that was their ACTUAL reason)

The way Liverpool is at the moment, we could not afford to pay Mourinho the kind of wages he is on. Nor could we give him the transfer budget that he'd require. So your whole post is a non-starter.

And you sound a little bit stuck in the past thinking that Liverpool have a "right" to win the league because of our past, we don't. What we need to do is break the traditional pecking order in the PL for the last 20 years, something Rafa has done before in La Liga & is on his way to doing again in the PL.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

but in fact the money SAF spent in order to get the club into that situation, which was a ridiculous amount, breaking all sorts of records. Something i don't think Rafa & our american custodians are able to do.

This is off topic for this thread so this is my last comment on this subject here. Using the same sources as you have for your figures about Rafa's net spent it appears that in net spend terms Liverpool has spent £74 Million more on players since the premiership started. United just went for quality over quantity.

I'm happy to debate the spending of both clubs with you but this is not the thread for it.

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

This is off topic for this thread so this is my lat comment on this subject here. Using the same sources as you have for your figures about Rafa's net spent it appears that in net spend terms Liverpool has spent £74 Million more on players since the premiership started. United just went for quality over quantity.

I'm happy to debate the spending of both clubs with you but this is not the thread for it.

no doubt Liverpool have wasted massive monies since the PL started. but surely Rafa can hardly be to blame for purchases by Houllier,Evans etc? Liverpool have been rebuilding their team with every new manager in order to compete with Utd, who have had continuity in that same period.

I'll pm you tomorrow for a chat about it!

DenMan

Any Liverpool fan Alan will tell you that Liverpool do have a right to win the league. Steven Gerrard talks about this all the time as he grew up in the barren years. And let's be honest about this, looking at Liverpool's trophy cabinet they are a club that demands success and that other clubs should be so envious. They were the benchmark for the future dynasites of Man Utd and Arsenal to a lesser degree.

Mr Alan

DenMan wrote: »

Any Liverpool fan Alan will tell you that Liverpool do have a right to win the league. Steven Gerrard talks about this all the time as he grew up in the barren years. And let's be honest about this, looking at Liverpool's trophy cabinet they are a club that demands success and that other clubs should be so envious. They were the benchmark for the future dynasites of Man Utd and Arsenal to a lesser degree.

there is a difference between having a right to win the league & wanting to win the league to emulate the greatness of past teams.

last time we won it, Gerrard was a nipper so maybe part of the problem at the club is expecting to win the league without taking the appropriate steps to do so-and an arrogance that breathes complacency within the squad and within the fanbase over the years.

no one would expect Man City/Everton/Villa etc to be able to win the league without massive investment, yet Rafa is being judged on that harshest of criteria when we havent won the league in 20 years & against all odds he is STILL bringing the club forward and already regained our reputation as one of the most feared sides in Europe while getting us records points tallys in the league.

BERBA

Mr Alan wrote: »

yet Rafa is being judged on that harshest of criteria when we havent won the league in 20 years & against all odds he is STILL bringing the club forward and already regained our reputation as one of the most feared sides in Europe while getting us records points tallys in the league.

all jokes aside but pat fenlon would bring the club forward with signings like torres , mash , johnson , aquillani .

Headshot

repeating myself again but I thought Stylian Petrov was the best midfielder on pitch tonight

superb performance

Nalz

BERBA wrote: »

all jokes aside but pat fenlon would bring the club forward with signings like torres , mash , johnson , aquillani .

whats wrong with Nutsey?:)

Bounty Hunter

Headshot wrote: »

repeating myself again but I thought Stylian Petrov was the best midfielder on pitch tonight

superb performance

451 really suits him and Villa in general imo, plus NRC although he can be limited when it comes to he passing quality for instance really lightens his load by simply being a bundle of energy and doing a lot of the dog body work in the centre of midfield for Villa.

dor83

BERBA wrote: »

all jokes aside but pat fenlon would bring the club forward with signings like torres , mash , johnson , aquillani .

But would the likes of Reina, Mash, Alonso and Torres have been signed if Benitez wasn't the manager? I don't think so, every manager would have different transfer targets and Benitez has brought some great signings to Liverpool and has also brought success in the CL and their best title challenge in a long time.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr Alan wrote: »

no one would expect Man City/Everton/Villa etc to be able to win the league without massive investment, yet Rafa is being judged on that harshest of criteria when we havent won the league in 20 years & against all odds he is STILL bringing the club forward and already regained our reputation as one of the most feared sides in Europe while getting us records points tallys in the league.

Is he really bringing the club forward? His best year was 2005 when he won the Champions League but they were fifth in the league that year I believe. I think in terms of title challenges, last season was his best year but Liverpool still finished second, won nothing and haven't won a trophy for the past 3 seasons.

I'm not sure points tallies count for a whole lot when your rivals take more than you. For instance if United earned more points than last season yet still finished second to Chelsea and won nothing, I'm sure the season would be judged a failure by Sir Alex.

invincibleirish

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Is he really bringing the club forward?

We've all had chuckles at Rafas expense over the years but it would be foolish to deny his achievements at Pool.

The 70s & 80s may as will be a million years ago given the paridigm shift that has occurred in footballs finances.

Along with the money many clubs have risen and fallen, and a hallmark of decline is a managerial merry go round. Liverpools finances look dodgy but Rafa has delivered trophies and CL cash to the bank manager, it would be madness for them to go chopping and changing now.

orourkeda

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

451 really suits him and Villa in general imo, plus NRC although he can be limited when it comes to he passing quality for instance really lightens his load by simply being a bundle of energy and doing a lot of the dog body work in the centre of midfield for Villa.

Away from home it's ideal. Villa drew too many home game though playing a 451 and may need to open up a little

bUILDERtHEbOB

I don't think it was that bad a performance tbh, they scored 3 goals from set pieces, two of which were caused by individual errors and they had only one decent chance from open play, we completely dominated the game and had enough chances to score at least a second.

Our attacking 4 were absolutely woeful though.

invincibleirish

orourkeda wrote: »

Away from home it's ideal. Villa drew too many home game though playing a 451 and may need to open up a little

Is there really a combo out of Sidwell-Petrov-NRC that can work well in a 442 to play at home? think they work best together as a threesome.

This just deja vu of Xmas last year? Villa failing to open up teams at home, Heskey bought and switch to 442...