Quad & scrambler bike damage on the hills

Alun

Got this recently from Helen Lawless of the Wicklow Uplands Council, so I thought I'd pass it on.

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The serious damage to some upland areas from the off-road use of motorized vehicles is a concern for many hillwalkers. Thankfully, there is now something walkers can do to counteract this.

Most of the Wicklow mountains are in the Wicklow Mountains Special Area of Conservation (SAC). This is an EU nature designation and due to a recent change in legislation it is now a criminal offence to damage such a protected area. The difficulty which arises is that the National Parks & Wildlife Service (NPWS) who have responsibility for protecting SACs have limited staff resources to monitor the mountains, particularly at weekends when most of this activity takes place. NPWS have asked us to inform walkers that if they see recreational use of quads or scrambler bikes on the open mountainside that they should immediately phone the NPWS Duty Ranger number – 087 9803899. It would also be very helpful if you can get photographs of the people / vehicles. While NPWS won’t always be in a position to respond (they have one ranger on duty at the weekends) this will at least give them information regarding where the activity is taking place. The other information which is valuable to them is to know what points the vehicles are using to get onto the hills and obviously if you can get registration numbers for any vehicles they are using to transport the quads, that is really useful.

While this might seem a lot, there was a recent report of quads heading up Lugnaquillia from the Slievemaan side just after 3.00pm on a Sunday afternoon, the Duty Ranger went to the area but failed to find the group coming off the hill. Had he received a second or third phone call about the activity he could have been in the right place to apprehend the group. The penalties for this offence can be high (seizure of vehicles, fine of up to €3,000, up to six months in jail). The NPWS are really keen to catch people so they can progress some prosecutions, generate publicity and hopefully dissuade others from engaging in this destructive activity.

Please circulate this information within your organisation and save the Duty Ranger number – 087 9803899 – into your mobile phone.

Thanks for your help!

Helen Lawless
Countryside Recreation Officer
___________________________

Wicklow Uplands Council
Saville House
Rathdrum
Co. Wicklow

Tel.: +353 (0) 404 43958
Mobile: +353 (0) 87 6563840
Website: www.wicklowuplands.ie

Does one have to look at the county development plan to examine where are special areas of conservation? Do they exist over private property?

Alun

Deleted User wrote: »

Does one have to look at the county development plan to examine where are special areas of conservation? Do they exist over private property?

Good question, and one I don't unfortunately have the answer to! I'm not even sure what areas now fall under the National Park seeing as they have added a few areas recently. The only map I've seen is a rather low-res copy of a truly ancient OS map of the area with the park boundaries overlaid on top. As for whether it's possible for private land that falls outside of the WMNP to be also designated as a SAC, I don't know. Maybe I'll drop Helen an email and see what she says.

DR6.5

Alun go to the following link and it allows you to see the National Parks ground.

http://www.npws.ie/en/MapsData/

DR6.5

Alun

DR6.5 wrote: »

Alun go to the following link and it allows you to see the National Parks ground.

http://www.npws.ie/en/MapsData/

DR6.5

Thanks, I'll take a look.

EDIT: Can't get that to work at all either in FF 3 or IE 7. What's wrong with a plain old PDF, that's all I want to know?

It's fantastic to see mountain bikes aren't being treated the same as Quad Bikes and Scramblers for once

Maybe they're starting to see that walkers could possibly be causing more damage to the national park than mountain bikes.Especially when you look at the number of walkers vs. mountain bikers in this country.

http://www.imba.com/resources/science/trail_shock.html

Great link, thanks for that.

Alun

I don't really know where I stand on the MTB issue, but that link you gave does make a very valid point that data arrived at in one type of terrain does not necessarily transfer across to another, and I'd say that a similar study done on the type of terrain found in most the WMNP, i.e. wet, soggy shallow blanket bog, might reveal rather different results to one performed on well maintained, relatively hard forest trails in parks in the US.

Hugh_C

Yep I've seen those idiots up on top of Lug cutting up the turf on scramblers and quads, didn't have the camera with me unfortunately. The damage was substantial and no question, it was deliberate too. Riders doing figure-of-eights gouging out ruts on the plateau. Sickening.

Cookie_Monster

I've generally no problem with mountain bikers as long as they staff off the walking trails particularly the Wicklow Way (which they're not allowed on anyway)

But I do get annoyed when they are on walking routes as most of them have no consideration whatsoever for walkers...

dogmatix

I do a lot of hillwalking everywhere and personally I have no problem with mountain bikers (and pony trekkers). I feel the damage they do is exaggerated. Plus of course they don’t make noise so as to ruin your day out in the hills! I can’t say I agree with Cookie Monster – I’ve always found them to be friendly and considerate whenever I’m walking around the three rock area. Never seem to encounter them anywhere else though.

But quads and scramblers (or Motocross as they are also known) are the one thing guaranteed to bring on the red mist while hill-walking, for me at least. The ear-splitting noise is the most immediate effect, but the environmental damage can be large and not forgetting possible danger to people, kids and animals. They are without doubt the most pig-ignorant and selfish types you will meet outdoors and it is also an activity that seems to attract particularly unsavoury characters. The weekend before last I witnessed two of these neanderthals doing wheelies up and down the dirt road leading to the trooperstown car park, forcing a group of four foreign tourists to beat a hasty retreat down to the river.

From my own experience they are becoming an increasingly common occurrence, especially over the last 2 years. Glendalough now appears to be the last refuge in wicklow where you can be certain to have a scrambler free experience.

One tactic they will try to use is “politeness” – when they are forced to slow down by a narrow path already occupied by a hillwalker (i.e. me) they will say “good morning”, “how are you” “nice day” etc… This is a tactic they openly advise each other to use on their biking forums when encountering hillwalkers. My response is usually “a string of extreme expletives that would shock a docker. You see what I mean about their ability to bring on the “red mist”? And i’m usually such a nice, well spoken individual.

As for spotting potential scramblers/quads – well if you see plain large white vans (possibly with a trailer in tow), in a forest car park, then that’s usually a possible first sign they are around. If I see such a vehicle in a car park I am usually inclined to move on to another location.

Evil Phil

Right, I know that the suggestions in this thread were lighthearted and meant as a joke but I will not tolerate violence or the advocation of violence on this forum.

Some idiot might come along, read the suggestions and actually go out and end up killing somebody.

Some quad-biker might use it as an excuse to run somebody down.

Alun

Alun wrote: »

I don't really know where I stand on the MTB issue, but that link you gave does make a very valid point that data arrived at in one type of terrain does not necessarily transfer across to another, and I'd say that a similar study done on the type of terrain found in most the WMNP, i.e. wet, soggy shallow blanket bog, might reveal rather different results to one performed on well maintained, relatively hard forest trails in parks in the US.

A good point but to be honest there's probably little over a thousand mountain bikers (if less) in the country that don't stick to the designated "trails" i.e the poor tourist trails Coillte provided.I fail to see how that amount of mountain bikers could cause more damage than tens of thousands of walkers and many walkers from overseas who come to walk the Wicklow Way.

Cookie_Monster wrote:

I've generally no problem with mountain bikers as long as they staff off the walking trails particularly the Wicklow Way (which they're not allowed on anyway)

But I do get annoyed when they are on walking routes as most of them have no consideration whatsoever for walkers...

The thing is there's only 3 forests in the country where we can mountain bike legally.It's shocking to think that a sport which gets people into the fresh air and gets people fit is frowned upon so much in this country.And I'm sorry to hear that some mtb'ers you've met have had no consideration for walkers.Everyone I know makes a point to give walkers right of way on these trails so I'm surprised by that.

I'm a hillwalker myself and most people you meet out on the hills are great people.But once you're on a bike most walkers seem to adopt a holier than thou attitude.That it's their right and their right only to enjoy the hills.I've received abuse from walkers for mountain biking on certain trails and there are stories around Dublin of walkers placing large rocks on mountain bike trails in order to cause injury.It's always the guys with walking poles and fully branded rain gear that lay into the abuse aswell.I appreciate it may be illegal in places but to be honest I'm not harming anyone and I'm causing no more damage to the land than the walkers are doing.So I really can't understand this attitude and it really get's on my nerves.

Evil Phil

Here here Inibaz - the mtb crew are all good as far as I can tell. I've heard more nightmare stories about other outdoor types encountering walkers than the other way around. The hills are not for one group over all others.

hmmm

We have to find some sort of balance between enjoying the hills and protecting them. If the balance was entirely towards conservation, none of us would be allowed up on them.

I've no problem with mountain bikers, as long as they have courtesy to other users of the hills (no different to any group). Any damage they cause is well within my "acceptable balance" range.

Quads and scramblers on the other hand are doing incredible damage, I'll be delighted to report them.