Vintage photos - License question

broin

I work for a small charity that's been around about 90 years. We've a huge collection of vintage photos from the 1920s through to the 60s that I'd like to scan and upload to Flickr. They're historically interesting and important enough that I don't feel my charity should just sit on them. I was hoping to upload them with a non-commercial Creative Commons license so that anyone can share and enjoy them.

Now, it would be flat out impossible to find who the original photographers were, although my charity may well have commissioned some of the pics.

So what are our rights regarding these photos? Is it enough that f there were any problems to just take the images offline?

Paulw

broin wrote: »

I work for a small charity that's been around about 90 years. We've a huge collection of vintage photos from the 1920s through to the 60s that I'd like to scan and upload to Flickr. They're historically interesting and important enough that I don't feel my charity should just sit on them. I was hoping to upload them with a non-commercial Creative Commons license so that anyone can share and enjoy them.

Now, it would be flat out impossible to find who the original photographers were, although my charity may well have commissioned some of the pics.

So what are our rights regarding these photos? Is it enough that f there were any problems to just take the images offline?

While you may own the prints, you don't own the rights to the photos. Therefore, you don't have the right to scan and upload them, never mind the fact that you certainly don't have the rights to license the images to anyone else.

It may not be enough (if there were problems) to simply remove the images. If the images were taken and used, you could be liable for compensation and any legal costs.

My advice - don't do what you have proposed.

If in doubt, consult a solicitor.

broin

Cheers, Paul.

It looks like copyright may have expired on the earliest photos from the 20s, 30s and 40s - http://www.gaelicimages.com/2009/06/copyright-duration/ - as the publications they were a part of are more than 50 years old.

It's a tough one, morally and ethically. If we don't scan and upload them, they're likely going to vanish. That would be a shame.

Paulw

broin wrote: »

Cheers, Paul.

It looks like copyright may have expired on the earliest photos from the 20s, 30s and 40s - http://www.gaelicimages.com/2009/06/copyright-duration/ - as the publications they were a part of are more than 50 years old.

It's a tough one, morally and ethically. If we don't scan and upload them, they're likely going to vanish. That would be a shame.

The copyright lasts 50 years after the passing of the photographer. The photographer may still be alive. Also, if the photographer was part of a company, the company may own the rights and may be still trading. You can't make an assumption that copyright has expired.

While it may be a shame, you may land yourself and your charity in a lot of hot water if you do upload them. I would certainly say that offering the images (under Creative Commons) would be very unethical and most likely a clear breach of copyright.

broin

Thanks again, Paul.

democrates

Might it be worth considering offering the prints to the national archives?

I'd guess they have a lot of material in their collection which is 'orphaned', ie copyright holder unknown. At least they know their way around these issues and I can't imagine safer hands...

decsramble

democrates wrote: »

Might it be worth considering offering the prints to the national archives?

I'd guess they have a lot of material in their collection which is 'orphaned', ie copyright holder unknown. At least they know their way around these issues and I can't imagine safer hands...

I'd agree with that. It would be a shame to see the photos just get discarded because copyright cannot be clarified. You should approach the archives and ask them what to do. They might not take the photos but they can advise you better than any website or forum. You could also try approaching the Irish Professional Photographers Association (IPPA) and ask for their advice. In the end perhaps you could scan the photos and keep the copies safe for the future.

broin

Thanks, guys. That's superb advice. I just found out that some of the photos' copyright has been clarified, which might make it a bit easier.

robertcochran

broin wrote: »

Thanks, guys. That's superb advice. I just found out that some of the photos' copyright has been clarified, which might make it a bit easier.

The earlier advice is generally sound, but you need to clarify a few matters.

Firstly to correct earlier posts, copyright lasts for 70 years (not 50 - it was changed a few years ago) after the death of the creator (i.e the photographer). So in your case almost certainly they are still in copyright, with the heirs of the original photographers holding the rights.

Secondly, who took the photographs and what was the relationship with your charity? For example, if they were employees and done as part of their work, then the charity is the copyright owner, not the photographer. If that was not the case, then was there any agreement with the charity - i.e. was there any implicit or explicit licensing of the material to the charity, and what were the terms of that, and what rights if any does it give the charity.

I realise it may be impossible to answer these questions at this stage, but it may be that you have the right to display the images (e.g. on a website), even if you can't sell them or use them commercially in any other way.

Anouilh

I took photos on behalf of a charity in the 1980's and would have no problem about having the organisers use those images even now. Otherwise, how is anybody to ever see them? Also, my grandmother worked for the Irish Sweepstakes in Dublin during the 1930's and I would love to see photos of life at that time on the internet.

There must be some links to the photographers who took the photos that are now stored by your charity. It woudl be worth making the effort to trace them, or their families who now hold the rights and see what they think.

bullpost

Why not just scan them for the time being. This at least preserves them and as soon as you sort copyright issues you can begin uploading them and making them available.