Cyprus vs. Republic of Ireland - 05/09/09 [mod warning post #293]

eoin99

Tyranax wrote: »

If we do make it to second place, some of the teams we could get are scary. France, Croatia, Sweden, Portugal, Russia, they could all be drawn. I wouldn't fancy us to get any result home or away against any of them better than a draw. At home. Maybe a win against Sweden.

And some of them not so scary....Scotland & N.Ireland, maybe Bosnia too....

Eire-Dearg

Tyranax wrote: »

If we do make it to second place, some of the teams we could get are scary. France, Croatia, Sweden, Portugal, Russia, they could all be drawn. I wouldn't fancy us to get any result home or away against any of them better than a draw. At home. Maybe a win against Sweden.

I think all those sides would beat us, we were lucky to avoid most of them in the first place.

Mr.Nice Guy

Sweden aren't that great these days. Didn't NI get a win over them in their Euro 2008 campaign?

If we make the play-offs I'd be happy, especially seeing as one of the runner-ups will miss out.

Tyranax

eoin99 wrote: »

And some of them not so scary....Scotland & N.Ireland, maybe Bosnia too....

If Scotland make it to second, they look like they will be the side that will end up as the worst second placed team. They need to win against Holland I think, and even then I'm not sure would they make it. Northern Ireland would be interesting. And tense. On and off the pitch. Bosnia are a decent side, and have a very dangerous striker in Dzeko. I'd fancy our chances more against them than the teams that I mentioned previous, but still.


Can we not get someone like Iran again? I'm tired of getting competent European sides like Belgium and Turkey. Give us poor travellers! Please! We just want to go to a World Cup!

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Just think where we'd be if it wasn't for the 2 Kilbane cock-ups in the Bulgaria matches and Robbie had scored that last minute chance against Italy. (after the equaliser obviously )

Mind the positive luck (Georgia in Mainze, dodgy penalty at home to Georgia, harsh Italian sending off) balances it out I guess.

eoin99

Tyranax wrote: »

If Scotland make it to second, they look like they will be the side that will end up as the worst second placed team. They need to win against Holland I think, and even then I'm not sure would they make it. Northern Ireland would be interesting. And tense. On and off the pitch. Bosnia are a decent side, and have a very dangerous striker in Dzeko. I'd fancy our chances more against them than the teams that I mentioned previous, but still.


Can we not get someone like Iran again? I'm tired of getting competent European sides like Belgium and Turkey. Give us poor travellers! Please! We just want to go to a World Cup!

Chances are though that NI won't end up 2nd place in their group either, they are 3pts ahead of Poland and Slovenia, both with games in hand. It'll be a very tight finish in that group, which will probably give the easiest of any potential playoff opponents.

That Iran playoff was a gift for 2002 in fairness!!

anonymous_joe

eoin99 wrote: »

And some of them not so scary....Scotland & N.Ireland, maybe Bosnia too....

Bosnia would destroy us.

Ibisevic and Dzeko would tear our defence a new one.

Tyranax

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bosnia would destroy us.

Ibisevic and Dzeko would tear our defence a new one.

Forgot about him. Very good player as well. It's because he's injured.

>.>
<.<


:rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy

Was just looking at Group 4. Germany lead it but Russia are just a point behind and there is a home game for Russia against Germany to come. Can you imagine the Germans in the play-offs? Yikes.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Was just looking at Group 4. Germany lead it but Russia are just a point behind and there is a home game for Russia against Germany to come. Can you imagine the Germans in the play-offs? Yikes.

... and then we do the unthinkable and beat Italy, Ital v German in the playoffs!

Or Italy v France in a rematch of last WC Final...

Tyranax

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Was just looking at Group 4. Germany lead it but Russia are just a point behind and there is a home game for Russia against Germany to come. Can you imagine the Germans in the play-offs? Yikes.

If we got either, Germany or Russia, we'd get easily handled. I really hope that if we make it, we don't get either.

Het-Field

You can piss and moan about a poor performance, but the crucial thing was the three points. Remember, its just three short years since we were pasted there, and four years since Brian Kerr got a huge slice of luck to see us through there.

The win keeps Ireland in contention. However, like Bulgaria, the goal difference will need to be improved. I think Bulgaria now have two goals on us, and that needs to be redressed.

Hopefully Stephan Reid will be back, along with Steve Finnan, and perhaps Andy Reid. Creativity will be necessary.

Fingers crossed. Only two games to go, and we are still very much in contention !

TheGreenGiant

hey does anyone know where to watch the full game online as I missed it due to work :mad::mad: probably didn't miss much though...bar the goals of course :rolleyes:

Mrmoe

I think it can be taken for granted now that Ireland will finish, probably being beaten or drawing with Italy and beating Montenegro in the final game. Northern Ireland would be the best choice for opposition in the playoff. A lot of potentially very dangerous teams in the play offs but I would still fancy us beating anyone over 2 legs.

cooker3

only1stevo wrote: »

If we do lose to italy and bulgaria win their final two, we will be going into montenegro gaming NEEDING a win... will be cacking it myself.

We would have everything to play for. They will have nothing to play for bar pride.
There is 0 reason for why we can't beat them, they are no great shakes.

That_Guy

Het-Field wrote: »

You can piss and moan about a poor performance, but the crucial thing was the three points. Remember, its just three short years since we were pasted there, and four years since Brian Kerr got a huge slice of luck to see us through there.

The win keeps Ireland in contention. However, like Bulgaria, the goal difference will need to be improved. I think Bulgaria now have two goals on us, and that needs to be redressed.

Hopefully Stephan Reid will be back, along with Steve Finnan, and perhaps Andy Reid. Creativity will be necessary.

Fingers crossed. Only two games to go, and we are still very much in contention !

I know we got the three points but it was the manner in which we managed to win scrape a victory which is very disheartening.

We need creative players and we don't have any at the moment and we've ridden our luck throughout this campaign. There's not one game I can say that we gave our all in because there's none that springs to mind.

We start games fairly well but we can't build on anything. We were toothless tonight and hopeful long balls up the pitch won't always work.

We have to perform against Italy at home and I don't think at this moment in time that our players are good enough. We need Reid and Ireland in our midfield because Andrews and (the name eludes me) have no presence or creativity in the centre of midfield. Serious work needs to be done.

I'm happy of the three points but the way we played was absoulute shoite.

ArmaniJeanss

adamski8 wrote: »

neeeding a win to possibly get a play off place, which we wont even be guaranteed if we finish second, and i doubt we go through in the play-off anyway!

I think we'd be ok.... we've a guaranteed 10 points for play-off calculation purposes so a win over Montenegro would guarantee us 13 (if they havn't finished bottom and we lose our 6 against Cyprus or Georgia) or more than 13 (if Montenegro do finish bottom and we count our 6 against Cyprus and Georgia).

The most the runnerup in Scotlands group can get is 13 (if Scotland beat Holland). But Scotland have a fairly rotten goal diff having shipped a few heavy defeats, so the nightmare scenario of being the 9th best runnerup is effectively gone if we beat Montenegro and finish second.

TheGreenGiant

why are we still going on about Ireland?? :mad::mad: He doesn't deserve to put on the green shirt! What we DO need is players that give it there all to the Irish team and the current batch of players that we have do, even though they mightn't be as creative, at least they take pride in wearing the colours of their country! All Ireland cares about is his pay check every week and his kick boxing, so let the little shiote go! We don't need someone like that on our team!Hopefully Andy and Steven Reid will play in our last 2 competitive games. We really need those to back in the team especially Steven...such a great midfield player. Lovely passer of the ball.

CHD

Think we need Stephen Ireland.

TheGreenGiant

Why...why would you want him back after what he said last weekend? He doesn't want to play so leave him be! I fhe thinks his kick boxing is more important than playing for his country then so be it. He doesn't care! He's an after thought in my mind. We should be concentrating on the players who do want to play!

DSB

TheGreenGiant wrote: »

Why...why would you want him back after what he said last weekend? He doesn't want to play so leave him be! I fhe thinks his kick boxing is more important than playing for his country then so be it. He doesn't care! He's an after thought in my mind. We should be concentrating on the players who do want to play!

Cause he is great and our players apart from Robbie Keane and Shay Given in nets aren't.

TheGreenGiant

He's not on the team though...HE DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY! He isn't interested in playing for Ireland and at an international level. So why we keep going on about him is pointless! Keane and Given arn't the only decent players on the squad. Duffer played really well in the Cyprus game. Newcastle was completely the wrong move for him. Looks like he's getting back to his old usual self, annoying the heck out of defenders and whipping in them great crosses! Then we have Dunne and O'Shea in defense. And Kevin Doyle is going to become a great player. And Kilbane may not be the best player but you can never argue with his work ethic! And that goes for the whole team. Our real problem is in midfield. Once we get that corrected I think our game will flow that much better.

cooker3

TheGreenGiant wrote: »

why are we still going on about Ireland?? :mad::mad:

TheGreenGiant wrote: »

Our real problem is in midfield. Once we get that corrected I think our game will flow that much better.

Answered your own question.

TheGreenGiant

We have Steven Reid coming back. Hopefully he will be fit when the time comes to playing Italy. And hopefully Trap will see that Andy has gotten a lot fitter and is playing really well. The point I am trying to make is that these players are available for selection...Ireland isn't.

JPA

Seriously , STFU about Stephen Ireland.
The day he says he wants to come back Is the day we can moan, but HE DOESN'T WANT TO PLAY FOR IRELAND.
Is this difficult to understand?
Has this post been done? Am I tipsy?

Hank Scorpio

Lets hope S reid is fit soon, he could have been a top 4 premiership player if it wasnt for injuries, the guy is quality

Handsome Bob

CHD wrote: »

Think we need Stephen Ireland.

He knows the channels that are open to him, and the people to ring.

therecklessone

Lads, before we end up doing this...



The Stephen Ireland thread is this way.

He's not coming back any time soon, so discussing his absence on this match thread makes as much sense as wishing Paul McGrath and Roy Keane would come out of retirement.

vincenzo1975

Which one would make way for stephen reid? I reckon it would be andrws, at least Whelan seems to get a decent shot or two in each game.

eoin99

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

Which one would make way for stephen reid? I reckon it would be andrws, at least Whelan seems to get a decent shot or two in each game.

Trap started the campaign with Whelan and Reid, and given his tendancy not to tinker with the starting line up id guess he'd stick with him. Saying that neither of them has actually put in a decent performance yesterday to stake a claim for the other centre mid spot. Will be interesting to see who Trap lines out on Tuesday against SA in midfield.

dogpile

That_Guy wrote: »

. There's not one game I can say that we gave our all in because there's none that springs to mind.

Italy away was a top performance granted against 10 men for the most part...but our midfielders got on the ball and played some nice stuff, even Gibson when he came on looked more like the Manu player than previously

Boskowski

I'm saying this from the perspective of a neutral who is very sympathetic with Ireland (because he's living here).

I can't believe all the negativity here from the 'pundits'.

To all you people who are saying that your team was awful. I don't think they were. And also, what the hell do you expect them to be? In international soccer terms they are a bunch of below average players with a few exceptions. The few exceptions are average players. The one player who is truly above average is, well, in goal. Could be worse.

So luckily you got a great manager with an awful lot of international experience and he decides to play to a system. Rather than to playing players. Which he believes is the only way he's going to get the results. But of course you all know better. Because you're confusing McGeady and Reid with Ribery and Deco. There may have been a phase in Irish football where we had more than a few real players, but the current phase isn't it.

I'll tell you what Trappatoni thinks would happen if he starts playing players. We would look better occasionally in midlfield and we would have the odd freekick that looks as if it was close. But there'd be no shape to the defense, the work rate 'back' from the midfield would be insufficient and we would be losing the matches.

Thinking that Ireland should be eye to eye with the big boys (e.g. Italy) in terms of playing abilities is foolish. On the day and when things are going well, sure, why not. But overall the approach is to grind away and make the best of it.

And I think the squad is actually doing quite a good job at that. So enjoy what you have, you're most likely going to go to the world cup. How bad.

dogpile

TheGreenGiant wrote: »

. And hopefully Trap will see that Andy has gotten a lot fitter and is playing really well.

Tuesday would have been the ideal opportunity to try something else out in midfield as was the last game in Limerick but he has no one else in the squad...Carsley/A. Reid or McAnn or even give James McArthy a run out but no what we'll probably see is the "big2" rested and a pairing of Miller/Gibson....what you'll get out of that is anybodies guess

shane86

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

, dodgy penalty at home to Georgia, p

While some of it was luck tbh the ref gave us that peno as compo for the bizarre ruled out Andrews goal. Offside my left one.

eirebhoy

Dunne was very dodgy but also produced more good contributions than the other 3 defenders combined. O'Shea was just dodgy full stop. I hope Dunne just needs to lose a few pounds because he didn't look the player that was literally too quick for Vucinic.

Terrible performance imo. I don't know what Trap is thinking with this long ball lark. Dunne hardly ever punts it long at club level since Sven was his manager and he was doing it more often than not last night. No matter what Trap says that's not down to the players that's down to him. I'll take any win at this moment in time but he really needs to sort it out after the Montenegro game.

S.Reid is vital to us. The football against Norway, Georgia and Montenegro with him in the team was good on the eye.

On a positive note Doyle was fantastic last night. Should have been motm. What a brilliant save from Given after our first goal too.

LuckyLloyd

realcam wrote: »

I'm saying this from the perspective of a neutral who is very sympathetic with Ireland (because he's living here).

I can't believe all the negativity here from the 'pundits'.

To all you people who are saying that your team was awful. I don't think they were. And also, what the hell do you expect them to be? In international soccer terms they are a bunch of below average players with a few exceptions. The few exceptions are average players. The one player who is truly above average is, well, in goal. Could be worse.

So luckily you got a great manager with an awful lot of international experience and he decides to play to a system. Rather than to playing players. Which he believes is the only way he's going to get the results. But of course you all know better. Because you're confusing McGeady and Reid with Ribery and Deco. There may have been a phase in Irish football where we had more than a few real players, but the current phase isn't it.

I'll tell you what Trappatoni thinks would happen if he starts playing players. We would look better occasionally in midlfield and we would have the odd freekick that looks as if it was close. But there'd be no shape to the defense, the work rate 'back' from the midfield would be insufficient and we would be losing the matches.

Thinking that Ireland should be eye to eye with the big boys (e.g. Italy) in terms of playing abilities is foolish. On the day and when things are going well, sure, why not. But overall the approach is to grind away and make the best of it.

And I think the squad is actually doing quite a good job at that. So enjoy what you have, you're most likely going to go to the world cup. How bad.

Well played.

Everyone, if you were asked at the start of this campaign whether you would take the position we are currently in, you would say "yes". This is your team, Whelan, Andrews, Kilbane, warts and all. They may not play good football, but they play tough and dogged and they manage to lift things and find ways to make it happen as the clock runs out (Georgia, Italy, killing the game in Bulgaria and now Cyprus).

Reading through this thread is so sad. Loads of complaining about the man who had scored 4 goals in 7 before the tie, forgetting the nature of his contributions for his down the years (i.e. looking rubbish for long stretches with goals at the crucial moments over and over). Loads of complaining over the inadequacies of our midfield and talk of Steven Ireland (). YES, they aren't great. We know. But it isn't for the lack of trying. Talk about how Richard Dunne is shakey and past it when he's been a rock all campaign.

Jaysus, come on for ****s sake. Right now, I'm not sure Irish football 'fans' are deserving of a World Cup appearance. I'll tell ya one thing, if you get a ticket for the Italy match you'd want to kop yourself on and go in there ready to scream your ****ing head off, to cheer every little thing the likes of Whelan does right, and make the most noise when we don't have the ball. The team has worked their balls off, pretty or no, to get into this situation. They have earned our support.

eirebhoy

For those that don't want to hear any moaning, booing eejits at the next 2 Ireland games please join the singing section. It's a brilliant experience of non stop singing and noise. Great to hear some of the songs belted out last night.

parasite

eirebhoy wrote: »

Terrible performance imo. I don't know what Trap is thinking with this long ball lark. Dunne hardly ever punts it long at club level since Sven was his manager and he was doing it more often than not last night. No matter what Trap says that's not down to the players that's down to him.

I don't think it is down to Trap, he was saying after the game how the midfield became fearful, and that they were practising two-touch passing in training, it's hard to know for sure

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote: »

Dunne hardly ever punts it long at club level since Sven was his manager

Sorry but that's simply untrue.

Great and all a defender that he is, he has always been a long ball merchant.

eirebhoy

It's 100% tactics.

We started the Italy game lumping it long. As soon as the Italian got sent off there was hardly a long ball in the entire game until Folan came on. That was a change in tactics. Dunne and O'Shea had a 96% pass success rate in Italy. McShane had a 100% pass success rate. You don't go from that to long ball 50% of the time for anything other than tactics.

eirebhoy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sorry but that's simply untrue.

Great and all a defender that he is, he has always been a long ball merchant.

We talked about this before. Dunne's pass success rate the season before Sven took over was 62%. He has completely changed his game and I'd expect a Man City fan to notice that.

Check it out for yourself, it's easy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote: »

We talked about this before. Dunne's pass success rate the season before Sven took over was 62%. He has completely changed his game and I'd expect a Man City fan to notice that.

Check it out for yourself, it's easy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create

How accurate is that though? Sure it has S. Warnock as our number 3

I watch Dunne every week and he likes the long option, always has, and if a manager like Trap gives him the licence to do it then he will.

Vokes

I remember being at Craven Cottage for a Fulham v ManC (managed by Sven) game, and Dunner didn't pay a single long ball. I actually specifically remember the quality in his ability to help the team maintain possesion. Was very impressed.

eirebhoy

Xavi6 wrote: »

I watch Dunne every week and he likes the long option, always has, and if a manager like Trap gives him the licence to do it then he will.

All I said was "Dunne hardly ever punts it long at club level since Sven was his manager" which is true.

The long punts are down to Trap no matter what he says and the way the Italy game turned out proves that.

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote: »

All I said was "Dunne hardly ever punts it long at club level since Sven was his manager" which is true.

The long punts are down to Trap no matter what he says and the way the Italy game turned out proves that.

I've spotted a little flaw in that chalkboard.

His long balls would be included under 'clearances' rather than passes. Ok you might say it's a pressure situation or whatever but a hoof is a hoof.

ctrl-alt-delete

I really wish people would stop pinning their hopes on S Reid being available for the Italy game, more of a chance of Ireland being back in the centre.

Kirby

Xavi6 wrote: »

a hoof is a hoof.

Or As Dunphy would say, "Wooof!"

LuckyLloyd

Eirebhoy, a question:

What's wrong with the deliberate use of the long ball tactic if it is getting results? I will agree that under Charlton its use was an opportunity lost, given the players at our disposal during that period. But with the current squad...?

Eire-Dearg

If in doubt, **** it out.

eirebhoy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Eirebhoy, a question:

What's wrong with the deliberate use of the long ball tactic if it is getting results? I will agree that under Charlton its use was an opportunity lost, given the players at our disposal during that period. But with the current squad...?

It's dreadful stuff imo. I don't appreciate teams that play that way and most foreigners wouldn't appreciate our football if we're going to be playing like that at the world cup. As I said, at the moment I don't really care how we play as long as we get to the world cup. But once we get there our performances are more important than the result for me. I just feel strongly about it.

On the betting forums and football forums there are plenty of foreigners talking about the match last night and not very complimentary of Ireland. That's nothing to celebrate for me.

Cyprus coach:
"They didn't play organised football. All they did was try to hit long high balls at us. It was our worst performance, not just in the qualifiers, but for a long time"