New huge 'Victory Christian Fellowship' centre being completed in Firhouse, Dublin

CiaranMT

Why do my posts always start a new page?

mewso

CiaranMT wrote: »

Why do my posts always start a new page?

You should increase the odds by switching to 40 posts per page. Then you have a 1 in 40 chance of your post starting a new page instead of a 1 in 10 not to mention less chance of asking a question that will confuse anyone not on the same posts per page setting as you i.e. your post didn't start a new page from where I'm standing.

Denalihighway

CiaranMT wrote: »

I think a few posters are giving us Irish too much credit...

I don't see the vast majority of Irish people (portrayed here):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC6kcDYOPls

going in for this kind of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lcpmBTyAZk

I know what you mean Ciaran but its already proving not to be the case as I figured it would be.

Their appeal is their 'community centre' hook. Starbucks, kiddies games rooms, camps, clubs, restaurant, strong-men exhibitions etc etc etc

There's no crosses, crucifixes etc or really any obvious religious imagery at all down there that you would associate with the catholic church or other churches. Possibly when you get in the place, but AFAIK that's not the case either.

They say its because their non-denominational - and I can't dispute that claim. But it also allows people to be duped into thinking they are far more benign than they seem and IMO that's more important to them, and it works. Even people who I would have thought would no better are falling for it - and its not because they're interested in the faith side of things by a long shot - its because of the appeal of the 'community centre'. See how long they last when VCF start handing out the cap...

Back in the day on some forum somewhere (I'll post link if I can find it, I saw it recently) a VCF 'customer' was quoted as saying they would be actively and energetically canvassing the younger, wider community. (A big mistake and the post was deleted and forum closed but someone saved the post and possibly put it up pn Boards). Nothing unusual in this conduct for these types obviously.

My only hope is that with revenue down from the asylum shelter game going bust, they start canvassing nice and strong, alienate plenty of people in the process and turn the wider community against them. Its a matter of time before there's some hullabaloo over the inevitable recruitment issue.

I worry about the extent they have infected the community already. If you check out what they do, as is normal for these places, they are particularly active on the kids/youth side of things - targetting these groups at a critical point of indoctrination where they're most vulnerable (like any religion since the year dot).

good videos though :pac:

robindch

CiaranMT wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lcpmBTyAZk

You're ALL individuals!

philologos

Denalihighway wrote: »

Back in the day on some forum somewhere (I'll post link if I can find it, I saw it recently) a VCF 'customer' was quoted as saying they would be actively and energetically canvassing the younger, wider community. (A big mistake and the post was deleted and forum closed but someone saved the post and possibly put it up pn Boards). Nothing unusual in this conduct for these types obviously.

[...]

I worry about the extent they have infected the community already. If you check out what they do, as is normal for these places, they are particularly active on the kids/youth side of things - targetting these groups at a critical point of indoctrination where they're most vulnerable (like any religion since the year dot).

I think any church is interested in promoting Christianity through evangelising. Essentially what it comes down to is offering people to come to church or to hear about it.

However, what seems to be the case in terms of Victory is that they are offering more than just the Gospel. They are making the whole thing totally consumer. It's hard to tell why people are coming, because they like the facilities / company or because they are interested in finding out more about Christianity.

Secondly it's interesting to compare their church site with their business site. There is no real mention in the second site that the building actually serves as a church. The reason the building is so generic perhaps is because they clearly want to make money from Monday - Friday and then use the church for other things as well.

Dades

robindch wrote: »

You're ALL individuals!

I'm not.

Denalihighway

philologos wrote: »

Secondly it's interesting to compare their church site with their business site. There is no real mention in the second site that the building actually serves as a church. The reason the building is so generic perhaps is because they clearly want to make money from Monday - Friday and then use the church for other things as well.

wow, hadn't seen that before. very interesting and not at all surprising.

i'm sure they're only too well aware of how much more commercially viable the space is if they just to a quick 'yoink'...and take the word 'christian' out of there.

The 'Victory Centre' - ah yes, now, that's better

alie

Denalihighway wrote: »

Hi,
I don't frequent this particular forum but thought this was interesting. Coming home some months ago in Firhouse, Dublin, I noticed a huge construction project that was seemingly making great progress, while most others are stalling in these times.

On further inspection it turned out to be the new Centre for the Victory Christian Fellowship, which I had never heard of. Their website is here www.victory.ie - and there's a interesting/funny/little bit creepy youtube video embedded regarding the construction and completion - see 2min 57sec "spiritually it won't be moved..." etc. The song is very funny too actually, it worth watching for that alone.

This is a serious building with restaurant, performance areas, prayer rooms, recording and mixing suites for performances and loads more according to the ever-so-slightly creepy video.

There's not a whole lot of info about the church on their website and there's a wiki article here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Christian_Fellowship that doesn't shed huge light either...just thought it was interesting and wondered what people thought.

And just in case anyone's feeling paranoid, no I'm not from the church :pac: I'm agnostic, but I'm from the area and to be quite honest when I saw the scale of the project and found out it was a religious venture, my instinct was to be ever so slightly unnerved.

And they preach about being kind and caring and hire heavies to manhandle kids.

goose2005

We believe water baptism is an act of identification with the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ

Not being a complete expert on such matters, but I don't know if any church would share that view.

recedite

Stewie would know what to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLoN-ZIYDf8

strobe

CiaranMT wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lcpmBTyAZk

Is anyone else of the questionable opinion that roughly 50% of those seemingly wayward teens are only pretending to be genital-less, sans-libido, conspicuously rhythmless, quasi-human beings for the opportunity of a clear unhindered run at the virginity of the other unaware circa 50%?

robindch

strobe wrote: »

Is anyone else of the questionable opinion that roughly 50% of those seemingly wayward teens are only pretending to be genital-less, sans-libido, conspicuously rhythmless, quasi-human beings for the opportunity of a clear unhindered run at the virginity of the other unaware circa 50%?

Something very similar to that suggestion has been made in print by Dennett + Blackmore, and over the years, here, by a number of A+A regulars

niallo12

ahh its not so bad. lovely building. who cares really

alie

niallo12 wrote: »

ahh its not so bad. lovely building. who cares really

my son and his friend both fifteen used to go to the kids club on fridays. One Friday they asked to leave as they were preaching and my sons friend was grabbed by the throat and my son was pushed back in his chair , the police were called and the people involved were ticked off . When we tried to contact pastor haide. He was unavailable, the cctv footage disappeared too . The stuff on their website about caring for kids is a load of nonsense. If you don't agree then they get violent. I will not be happy till I see the place closed down

username123

Alie - why were you allowing your teenage son to attend meetings there - just curious? Were you aware of the religious aspect or was it presented as just a community centre type place?

alie

username123 wrote: »

Alie - why were you allowing your teenage son to attend meetings there - just curious? Were you aware of the religious aspect or was it presented as just a community centre type place?

Ata first it was advertised as a safe hangout for kids, he really enjoyed it, then they started trying to recruit them, we allowed him to say the closing prayer but as time went on , they started to preach, he went with his mates about 2 weeks ago and they started to do a talk on drugs, my son asked to leave as he felt uncomfortabe and his friend also, they were stopped from leaving in a most disgusting manner , all taped on his phone,

philologos

As much as I disagree with the Victory Church set up, I don't think it is a valid complaint to send ones child to a youth group at a church and expect no reference to Christianity.

username123

alie wrote: »

Ata first it was advertised as a safe hangout for kids, he really enjoyed it, then they started trying to recruit them, we allowed him to say the closing prayer but as time went on , they started to preach, he went with his mates about 2 weeks ago and they started to do a talk on drugs, my son asked to leave as he felt uncomfortabe and his friend also, they were stopped from leaving in a most disgusting manner , all taped on his phone,

Im inclined to agree with Philologos, what did you actually expect was going to happen to young people attending a youth group in a church?

It would seem obvious to me that sending kids to that environment is going to expose them to prayers, preaching - basically to the belief system of the church. The same thing would happen if they were going to a youth group run by the Catholic Church - or any church.

Obviously being prevented from leaving in the manner you reference is extreme, but it must have occured to you prior to that incident that the purpose of them being there (from the point of view of the church) was to indoctrinate them and recruit them into the religious aspect of things?

What I find shocking (as well as the incident you mention) is that parents would send children into a church set up like this unsupervised.

Who was running the group? If it was someone with the title Pastor or other religious title then its silly to expect that the children were not going to be preached to.

Doctor DooM

philologos wrote: »

As much as I disagree with the Victory Church set up, I don't think it is a valid complaint to send ones child to a youth group at a church and expect no reference to Christianity.

Indeed, however it's rather sinister they were not allowed to leave.

alie

philologos wrote: »

As much as I disagree with the Victory Church set up, I don't think it is a valid complaint to send ones child to a youth group at a church and expect no reference to Christianity.

I knew there would be a reference, although you do not have to join. It was the way in which it was conducted that was most annoying

alie

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Indeed, however it's rather sinister they were not allowed to leave.

It was frightening and when they did get out, my sons friend was grabbed by the throat and they were both threatened that the lads would kill them outside, my sons friend called 999 and statements were taken, they closed the youth centre part for one week and then re opened it.

username123

@alie - are the guards proceeding with a criminal case for assault for this incident?

You mentioned the incident being taped on a phone, I sincerely hope you have put that footage on youtube and shared it with other parents whose kids go there?

What has been the reaction of other parents - your sons friends parents are no doubt upset also - have you contacted any other local parents of children who attend the group?

Mark Hamill

philologos wrote: »

As much as I disagree with the Victory Church set up, I don't think it is a valid complaint to send ones child to a youth group at a church and expect no reference to Christianity.

Looks at alies 'post:

alie wrote:

Ata first it was advertised as a safe hangout for kids, he really enjoyed it, then they started trying to recruit them, we allowed him to say the closing prayer but as time went on

alie wrote:

One Friday they asked to leave as they were preaching and my sons friend was grabbed by the throat and my son was pushed back in his chair

I dont think alies' issue was with there being some preaching going on, its with them laying a hand on his/her son when he tried to leave.

alie

The gaurds gave them all oral warnings and a written warning was given to pastor haide, my son was quite upset about it all and we still have the footage although have not made it public, the victory centre,s name is now muck all around firhouse and rathfarnham. The "volunteers' all adult males should in my opinion be vetted by the gaurds as their suitability to work with with kids, the age range of the kids there on a friday night is between 13 and 17. There was at least 6 adult males dragging his friend outside, when my son went to his aide he was pushed backwards against a wall. The cctv footage from the centre went to cork and could not be retrieved!!

Doctor DooM

If they're working with kids, I am pretty sure they're supposed to be vetted.

username123

alie wrote: »

we still have the footage although have not made it public

If I were you Id be making it public.

alie wrote: »

the victory centre,s name is now muck all around firhouse and rathfarnham.

Really?
I live in Firhouse and have never heard a negative mention outside of this thread. Actually Ive heard little mention of it at all but there still seems to be plenty of cars and people in and out of the place. Is the kids club still running? Do they still have kids attending?

alie wrote: »

The "volunteers' all adult males should in my opinion be vetted by the gaurds as their suitability to work with with kids, the age range of the kids there on a friday night is between 13 and 17.

Yes - how are they getting away without Garda checks on the people in charge of the kids? Was this something you had looked into prior to the incident?

alie wrote: »

The cctv footage from the centre went to cork and could not be retrieved!!

Very convenient and not very surprising. What about the other kids present as witnesses?

If all the guards are doing/have done is oral and written warnings perhaps you or the others kids parents should be considering a civil case?

alie

username123 wrote: »

If I were you Id be making it public.



Really?
I live in Firhouse and have never heard a negative mention outside of this thread. Actually Ive heard little mention of it at all but there still seems to be plenty of cars and people in and out of the place. Is the kids club still running? Do they still have kids attending?



Yes - how are they getting away without Garda checks on the people in charge of the kids? Was this something you had looked into prior to the incident?



Very convenient and not very surprising. What about the other kids present as witnesses?

If all the guards are doing/have done is oral and written warnings perhaps you or the others kids parents should be considering a civil case?

My son is going to put it on you tube, i didnt think they would ever manhandle my child. When i said about about dissing the name, i should have added that all the boys that went to the centre with my son no longer attend.

username123

alie wrote: »

My son is going to put it on you tube, i didnt think they would ever manhandle my child. When i said about about dissing the name, i should have added that all the boys that went to the centre with my son no longer attend.

Do post the link please, this thread comes up when the name is googled.

philologos

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Indeed, however it's rather sinister they were not allowed to leave.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Looks at alies 'post:

I dont think alies' issue was with there being some preaching going on, its with them laying a hand on his/her son when he tried to leave.

The other claims involve legal issues, and are a good deal more doubtful. While not completely ruling them out I personally would need to see these substantiated in some way before running away with them.

Not that I believe that they are impossible, but they are serious enough claims to question.

Dades

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Indeed, however it's rather sinister they were not allowed to leave.

Just like the catholic church and Hotel California, it seems.