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New huge 'Victory Christian Fellowship' centre being completed in Firhouse, Dublin

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    #632
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    123 fair enough you seem to know a lot more about this than me.

    Id a friend who worked in an unrelated business in the building of Total Fitness in Sandyford when it went bust. The business just moved premises. There was a bit of disruption alright.

    Nobody wants their business to go bust, they will do their best to protect themselves and carry on elsewhere.


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    #633
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    That's good to hear.
    It's quite stressful when she is the sole breadwinner Of a large family


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    #634
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    That's good to hear.
    It's quite stressful when she is the sole breadwinner Of a large family

    Really her employer should be keeping her informed of what's going on. Bad form not to.


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    #635
    wolf tonedeaf
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭wolf tonedeaf


    Bags the 20ft Telly in the window of this kip when the looting starts


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    #636
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    Her employer seems to be clinging to the hope the building won't close to be honest


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    #637
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    Her employer seems to be clinging to the hope the building won't close to be honest

    Well the receivers might let it stay open for existing businesses. I think the crèche in total fitness in sandyford stayed running after a bit of disruption.


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    #638
    35cent
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭35cent


    I go to this church sometimes. Didn't know any of this was going on. I really haven't been there in a while.


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    #639
    Sierra 117
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Sierra 117


    wolf tonedeaf wrote: »
    Bags the 20ft Telly in the window of this kip when the looting starts

    How about we split it down the middle? 10ft each.


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    #640
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,291 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Sierra 117 wrote: »
    How about we split it down the middle? 10ft each.

    Ah. The megatelly of Solomon...


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    #641
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    I have no opinion either way regarding the religion as it doesn't affect me, I have enough going on in my life without worrying about what other people do with their time / money.

    They were getting tax relief payments from Revenue of approx 250k a year on the 'donations'.

    Still think this sort of thing doesn't affect you? We were all subsidising it.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #642
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    Ninja I think that says a lot more about our tax system than it does about the church


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    #643
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    Ninja I think that says a lot more about our tax system than it does about the church
    You're ok with people stealing money from taxpayers like you?


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    #644
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    Yes she can be offered a position in another premises IF they relocate but this is obviously not going to happen overnight is it?
    It is certain they will need to relocate? If the businesses have a legal lease then there is a reasonable chance that the lease will be valid. You see this all the time in commercial building sales. The building gets sold but the tenants already there are undisturbed. This is because there lease is good against any subsequent owner of the property.

    Of course, this may be complicated by how the "owners" have behaved, but I am not sure that misbehaviour, or even fraud, of the lessor will be enough to invalidate the lease of the lessee, assuming the lease was properly executed.

    In addition, it may very well be in the receivers interest to have tenants in the property.It will at least provide some income, an occupied property is less likely to be vandalised and sitting tenants might well make the property more attractive to potential investors.

    Not necessarily all doom and gloom for the businesses that are there. Assuming of course they obtained a lease and did not believe they could merely trust the landlords on the basis that they were good christians...

    MrP


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    #645
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    Robin, please point out where I stated I am happy with people 'stealing' money from tax payers.

    These random unfounded accusations are just ridiculous.


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    #646
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    Mr pudding, staff onsite have no idea if they will need to relocate or not. If the entire building will be closed or just the church will be asked to vacate.

    Apparently it's business as usual this morning though. I assume staff will be informed of what went on in the high court yesterday


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    #647
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    I assume staff will be informed of what went on in the high court yesterday

    I am interested to hear this myself.


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    #648
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    There is a summary here of yesterdays events in court. Rather than clap these people up in jail they now have until Friday to comply with the High Court.

    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/hades-or-heaven-friday-june-14-the-four-courts/


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    #649
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    Robin, please point out where I stated I am happy with people 'stealing' money from tax payers. These random unfounded accusations are just ridiculous.
    That wasn't an accusation, or a statement of fact about anything that you might have said earlier on.

    Instead, that was a question which I asked because your response to ninja seemed to place most of the blame upon the tax system for allowing people to use a tax law which is supposed to encourage charitable behaviour - when, in this case, it seems that charitable behaviour seems to have been the last thing on the minds of the church and people concerned.


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    #650
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    username123 wrote: »
    There is a summary here of yesterdays events in court. Rather than clap these people up in jail they now have until Friday to comply with the High Court.

    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/hades-or-heaven-friday-june-14-the-four-courts/

    hmmm...the countdown begins. The comment below that article is also a tragic exercise in extreme unintended irony, worth a read...

    we're closing in Pastor Brendan.

    Hopefully there won't be any Waco-style drama. Be a shame to lose a facility like that...


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    #651
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    123 thanks for posting the link will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow so!

    Robin, if the tax system is so easy to manipulate do you not think that it should be corrected so scammers can't - as you put it 'steal tax payers money'?


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    #652
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    Waco- style drama?!
    Are they really that extreme? I always just assumed they were bible bashers minding their own business

    (the congregation not the pastors before anyone jumps down my throat)

    Do you really think they could turn violent?


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    #653
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    MrsG09 wrote: »
    Waco- style drama?!
    Are they really that extreme? I always just assumed they were bible bashers minding their own business

    (the congregation not the pastors before anyone jumps down my throat)

    Do you really think they could turn violent?

    nah I was being a little facetious there MrsG...but who knows...

    Waco...no I don't think so. Also, I threw the Waco example out there but the actual Waco series of events is hotly disputed (deffo for another thread...)

    But I wouldn't put much past the trustees to be honest. They've already had German Shepherds in to keep the receivers out.


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    #654
    enigmatical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 169 ✭✭enigmatical


    Amazing none of this is making it into the mainstream news.


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    #655
    Banbh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    Surely their Lord will smite any CAB, Revenue or other representatives of mammon that try to mess with his holy temple.


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    #656
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    enigmatical wrote: »
    Amazing none of this is making it into the mainstream news.

    The State vs African immigrant christians. Not good optics if put in a certain spin.

    But it's been in the Irish Times, so the mainstream are listening in.


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    #657
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    Was also on Sunday world and daily mail


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    #658
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    Also it's not just African migrants, there are a good few Irish And a sizeable number of Americans that go there.
    There was a large group of American teenagers there last week for some prayer retreat thingie


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    #659
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Banbh wrote: »
    Surely their Lord will smite any CAB, Revenue or other representatives of mammon that try to mess with his holy temple.

    Exciting - I await the Lord Jebus in all his glory.


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    #660
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    You know the way if I cant pay my mortgage and my home eventually gets repossessed by the bank, they can sell it and come after me for the shortfall?

    So what happens in a situation like this, can the pastors be pursued for the outstanding monies owed - or because its a commercial venture will they simply be able to avail of bankruptcy and walk away?

    Will their personal assets or other business ventures be under threat?


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    #661
    MrsG09
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭MrsG09


    I guess it depends in who actually owns the building and who owns the loans on paper. Is it the church, a limited company etc.

    It's surely doubtful the pastors signed loan agreements in a personal capacity


This discussion has been closed.
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