New huge 'Victory Christian Fellowship' centre being completed in Firhouse, Dublin

Stuboyovo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ESWRtaHNU8

Lolababas

Banbh wrote: »

Okay. Ask HIM which hotel.

I did and someone just txt me the venue:)Praise the Lord

username123

Lolababas wrote: »

I did and someone just txt me the venue:)Praise the Lord

hahaha - good comeback! Praise Jebus.

MrPudding

Lolababas wrote: »

I did and someone just txt me the venue:)Praise the Lord

Awesome. At least he answered your prayer for the hotel location. Perhaps you could share your secret of success with the thousands of kids that die each day despite praying for an end to the famine and disease that kills them so effectively.

What is it that you do that be doesn't. Still, a least we can be happy that your merciful god took a pico second out of his hectic killing babies schedule to get some other gullible sap to send you a text.

God truly is great.

MrP

username123

username123 wrote: »

I was elsewhere in Firhouse and the "word on the street" is that (a) everything of value has been stripped from the building in recent weeks and (b) the current shysters plan to re-open the place in a few weeks time after it has been bought at a knock down price for cash by someone they are friendly with. So their names will not be associated but they will be running the same business.

Appallingly, it looks like the word on the street may have been correct:
http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/victory-conference-centre-limited-not-a-trust-anymore/

This looks like an attempt by Hade to register a new entity with a clean credit history, possibly in an attempt to start up a new church once VCF has been wound down by the receivers. This is exactly what happened in Galway when abundant life Christian centre ltd was wound down by the receivers and Brendan Hade took the church and moved it to a new premises under the Victory Galway entity with a debt free status while the Abundant Life debtors were left to burn. An interesting company has appeared in the CRO register. Is it a restart or failed attempt to hold on to the buildings? The documents were filed on the 30/05/13 with a Thomas O’Leary and Thomas Cooney as directors.
Victory Conference Centre Limited

endacl

Well, they'll have something to fall back on anyway.

http://www.hade.ie/

username123

endacl wrote: »

Well, they'll have something to fall back on anyway.

http://www.hade.ie/

How did electricians get into the God business?

recedite

An interesting company has appeared in the CRO register. Is it a restart or failed attempt to hold on to the buildings? The documents were filed on the 30/05/13 with a Thomas O’Leary and Thomas Cooney as directors. Victory Conference Centre Limited

Unfortunately this is a very common scam in business circles; a limited company that owes too much money can be collapsed and the owners get away with whatever proceeds they have already arranged to have sucked out of the company. The only penalty is that they will be personally banned from being a company director for a certain length of time. In this case it looks like Pastor Cooney will be the next new figurehead. In a few years time the same could happen again, as there will always be a second-in-command to take over as the company director :mad:

camz09

And he sayeth, "Green Isle Hotel, my child"

endacl

username123 wrote: »

How did electricians get into the God business?

Used to be a tool hire business. Spotted the opportunity, I suppose...

Hotblack Desiato

username123 wrote: »

How did electricians get into the God business?

Maybe they saw the light.

Brian Shanahan

Lolababas wrote: »

There is...get born again and you will be amazed! HE communicates!

Seriously, the voices in your head are not to be listened to (in most cases), most especially when they have delusions of godhood.

In business terms that would be called a phoenix company (a new company arising from the ashes) - in the god business would it be called a resurrection?
Or maybe a Lazarus church.

nozzferrahhtoo

Seems it is not just this place in Dublin suffering from financial failure. The infamous "Creation Museum" is now suffering too in the US. Apparently "Belief in creationism correlates to less education, and less education correlates to lower income." and people do not want to fork out the 30 dollars (€23) to go there.

expectationlost

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/world1-e1372546343395.jpg

pastor of bust church ows 18m on 31 properties

recedite

If I read that headline correctly, it means the pastor owns 31 properties personally, but the bankrupt church/company owes €18M.

The law protects the personal assets of a company director, so there is no reason why this guy woudn't get away with his properties and have a luxury retirement. And why not...as the old saying goes; a fool and their money are easily parted.

If you were going to start asking these guys to pay up personally for their failed enterprises, it would end up with bankers and politicians being asked to hand back money and foregoe their golden handshakes, and shur then where would we be? In some kind of communist society the likes of which jesus would have designed

Sulla Felix

recedite wrote: »

If I read that headline correctly, it means the pastor owns 31 properties personally, but the bankrupt church/company owes €18M.

The law protects the personal assets of a company director, so there is no reason why this guy woudn't get away with his properties and have a luxury retirement. And why not...as the old saying goes; a fool and their money are easily parted.

If you were going to start asking these guys to pay up personally for their failed enterprises, it would end up with bankers and politicians being asked to hand back money and foregoe their golden handshakes, and shur then where would we be? In some kind of communist society the likes of which jesus would have designed

Depends on what kind of loans were issued. A lot of the time personal guarantees can be asked for. I know that's what saw the comeuppance of a lot of builders in recent years. Family homes are still protected but machinery, other properties etc all can be siezed.

recedite

Sulla Felix wrote: »

A lot of the time personal guarantees can be asked for. I know that's what saw the comeuppance of a lot of builders in recent years.

Yes, but that was unusual, and only agreed as a last resort because the builders genuinely believed they would turn their companies around with the loans.
If you know your business is a scam, you will keep your personal assets strictly separated. Even if you believed it was an honest and profitable business, it would still be prudent to do that.

Sulla Felix

recedite wrote: »

Yes, but that was unusual, and only agreed as a last resort because the builders genuinely believed they would turn their companies around with the loans.
If you know your business is a scam, you will keep your personal assets strictly separated. Even if you believed it was an honest and profitable business, it would still be prudent to do that.

They weren't, they were routinely sought for large loans. Off the top of my head, the Grehan case, Pierce Properties, the Mansfields, Whelans Quarries, all were held to personal guarantees that were given pre-2008. It was seen as a way, especially where loans were in the tens of millions, as an easy way to get more money out of the bank for that "surefire" investment.

recedite

I could list off a ream of high profile developers who are still living happily in luxury, still controlling other solvent companies, despite offloading millions of € of debt onto the State via the banks. Some such as the Zoe Group were divided into so many companies that the bad debts could be offloaded into a few sacrificial companies which were bankrupted.
Anyway we will soon find out whether the good pastor was foolish enough to give personal guarantees, because then 30 out of the 31 houses would be taken from him; all except for his family home.

username123

Theres no way the pastors would have given personal guarantees - they knows every trick in the book and their previous financial dealings would indicate they know exactly how to protect themselves while screwing over everyone else.

Banbh

Seeing as the Catholic Church had its liability for child rape reduced substantially by the FF-GP government and now the FG-Lab government is 'asking' them to make a 'contribution' which they are refusing to do, it is hardly surprising that rival commercial interests in the god business are doing the same.

MrPudding

recedite wrote: »

Yes, but that was unusual, and only agreed as a last resort because the builders genuinely believed they would turn their companies around with the loans.
If you know your business is a scam, you will keep your personal assets strictly separated. Even if you believed it was an honest and profitable business, it would still be prudent to do that.

Agreed, but there are circumstances where limited liability protection is lost, for example, fraud, malfeasance or wrongful trading. When a company goes into liquidation the liquidator has quite wide ranging power to look at past transactions, sales and payments and can frequently pursue the directors for their personal assets.

MrP

recedite

I don't think we will see the "prosperity gospel" doctrine declared to be fraudulent, however obvious that might be to you or I.
But there may be some issues in relation to the charitable status, even though a charity is entitled to pay its staff. The levels of pay these guys were drawing off was hardly "appropriate".
In comparison to top bankers and developers though, I reckon they were still in the ha-penny place.

lazygal

http://www.inquisitr.com/806467/megachurch-pastor-asks-congregation-to-help-pay-for-helicopter-upgrade/

Did the church have helicopters? Jesus wants the pastor of this church to have one.

recedite

What is the "appropriate" level of remuneration for the man who heads a religion anyway? A tricky question for the courts to answer.

username123

lazygal wrote: »

Did the church have helicopters? Jesus wants the pastor of this church to have one.

But of course, it brings him closer to the almighty.....

Brian Shanahan

username123 wrote: »

But of course, it brings him closer to the almighty.....

No it doesn't. I have a 4,000 mile no fly zone around my house implemented for all American pastors. You wouldn't believe the money it cost me to get that order from the courts (though I must say Carter Fúck did good work), or the trouble I had with them eejits before I got it.

goose2005

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.inquisitr.com/806467/megachurch-pastor-asks-congregation-to-help-pay-for-helicopter-upgrade/

Did the church have helicopters? Jesus wants the pastor of this church to have one.

The Vatican has two helipads and Ben16 had a helicopter licence - admittedly I don't know if they actually owned one

PopePalpatine

I'm sorry to dig up this thread again, but I've seen quite a few VCF vans going around nearby towns (I live in Trim, BTW). One of them was even parked across the entrance to a funeral home's car park. :rolleyes: