New huge 'Victory Christian Fellowship' centre being completed in Firhouse, Dublin

username123

Does anyone know whats happening or planned to happen to the Victory Centre?

I go running past it and there has been some activity (lights on, a vehicle parked outside) a couple of times recently. But mostly its just dead. Its a terrible shame and waste of a fine building. Saw plenty of birds roosting on the roof last week and got to thinking about how quickly a building can be destroyed by dereliction.

Lolababas

Yes - I have it on good authority that the Victory (Hades) will be back into the building before Christmas.

Sarky

Shame, that. Lot of space that could have been used for something useful.

username123

Lolababas wrote: »

Yes - I have it on good authority that the Victory (Hades) will be back into the building before Christmas.

Umm, is the good authority God? Or a real authority?

Brian Shanahan

username123 wrote: »

Umm, is the good authority God? Or a real authority?

Probably whoever brainwashed the poster into joining the victory crowd.

bigburdy

I heard Aldi are considering the premises for a store in Firhouse.

Sarky

That'd certainly be more use to the surrounding community than rebooting the dodgy money-grabbing evangelism thing.

Hotblack Desiato

Sarky wrote: »

That'd certainly be more use to the surrounding community than rebooting the dodgy money-grabbing evangelism thing.

There's an untapped market for discount money-grabbing evangelism things.

Tabnabs

ninja900 wrote: »

There's an untapped market for discount money-grabbing evangelism things.

discount evangelism? Now there's an oxymoron...

recedite

You can't beat atheists on price.
Its a well known fact that they don't attend church because they are too mean to put any money at all on the plate.

Beruthiel

recedite wrote: »

Its a well known fact that they don't attend church because they are too mean to put any money at all on the plate.

Some priests pocket V a nice bordeaux with an accompanying camembert.
Decisions, decisions!

Synode

Looks like they're going after the trustees

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/bank-granted-18-5m-judgement-against-church-trustees-1.1615785?page=1

Banbh

The only thing that will help them now is prayer (snigger).

recedite

If there is a judgement of €18.5M against the trustees themselves, it means whatever "limited liability" they thought they were hiding behind, has been well and truly smashed open by the court.

That is some bombshell slotted in there, at the very end of the report;

Irish Times wrote:

This information included that Revenue had removed the Fellowship’s charitable status and that allegedly fraudulent invoices were generated in relation to the construction of the Victory Centre by a party connected to the trustees.

So it seems we were correct, there was a chink all along in their shining celestial armour :pac:

MrPudding wrote: »

Agreed, but there are circumstances where limited liability protection is lost, for example, fraud, malfeasance or wrongful trading. When a company goes into liquidation the liquidator has quite wide ranging power to look at past transactions, sales and payments and can frequently pursue the directors for their personal assets.
MrP

recedite wrote: »

I don't think we will see the "prosperity gospel" doctrine declared to be fraudulent, however obvious that might be to you or I.
But there may be some issues in relation to the charitable status, even though a charity is entitled to pay its staff. The levels of pay these guys were drawing off was hardly "appropriate".

The trustee/shysters are now up $$hit creek without even a spoon to paddle with.

username123

recedite wrote: »

The trustee/shysters are now up $$hit creek without even a spoon to paddle with.

Course this being Ireland, the higher the amount you commit fraud with, the less you get punished.......

Praise Jebus.

lazygal

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/search/?q=*:*&fq=nolc_keywords:%22Prime%20Time%20Investigates%22

RTE has conducted an investigation into Victory Outreach drug rehab programmes. Is this connected to the Victory centre?

Benny_Cake

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/search/?q=*:*&fq=nolc_keywords:%22Prime%20Time%20Investigates%22

RTE has conducted an investigation into Victory Outreach drug rehab programmes. Is this connected to the Victory centre?

No connection, according to Dialogue Ireland:

Disclaimer:

VO has no connection to the Victory Church on the Firhouse Road, Tallaght, which is in receivership currently

Lolababas

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/search/?q=*:*&fq=nolc_keywords:%22Prime%20Time%20Investigates%22

RTE has conducted an investigation into Victory Outreach drug rehab programmes. Is this connected to the Victory centre?

No Victory Outreach and Victory Centre and not related in any way.
V Outreach were very much out on a limb although said to be part of an International Organization I think they lacked strong/professional leadership. No doubt they were doing what they believed to be helpful to addicts and in some cases they did help although according to the RTE investigation some people had bad experiences. Drug Rehab is a very difficult process and should be handled with care. V Outreach were doing what they believed was the right way to go but like I said they lacked strong/professional leadership.

Malcolm.

Is that Victory Church thing still open ? Would make a great HQ and conference centre for Atheist Ireland at a knockdown price

Tabnabs

So I know this is a zombie thread, but it's the complete story on this crowd and this fits in nicely here:

The trustees of a non-denominational church, the Victory Christian Fellowship, have lost their appeal against a High Court ruling that Bank of Scotland was entitled to appoint joint receiver over three of its properties.

The three judge Court of Appeal rejected arguments by Brendan Hade, the church’s senior pastor and his wife Sheila Hade of Fountain Head, Rockbrook, Rathfarnham, Dublin; and Gerry Byrne, Woodstown, Knocklyon, Dublin. They argued the appointment of receivers in May 2013 was invalid because it was precipitated after obtaining unauthorised confidential material about the VCF.

Paul McCann and Patrick Dillon were appointed receivers over three properties at Kilmacud House, Kilmacud Road, Upper Stillorgan; Westland Row and Firhouse Road, Tallaght after VCF failed to satisfy a demand by the bank for repayment of €18.76 million loans. The properties were put up as security for monies advanced to the fellowship by the bank in 2007.

The receivers opposed the appeal and argued Mr Justice Paul Gilligan’s December 2013 finding their appointment was valid should remain undisturbed.

The High Court had also found BOS was entitled to judgment of €18.76 million against the trustees. It further held the receivers were entitled to permanent injunctions restraining the trustees and others interfering with the receivers’ taking possession of the properties.

In their appeal, the trustees argued the appointment of the receivers in May 2013 was unlawful, invalid, and should be set aside and the receivers must vacate the three properties.

They argued the bank was not entitled to appoint receivers because, while the fellowship was in talks with the bank about reaching an agreement over the debt, the bank obtained confidential information, including that the Revenue Commissioners had retrospectively from 2009 withdrawn charitable status from VCF.

That information was disclosed by a person representing VCF in negotiations in relation to the indebtedness and should not have been disclosed as it adversely affected the VCF’s financial position, it was argued.

The VCF claimed a plan was agreed with the bank in March 2013 relation to the debt that would allow VCF remain in possession of the premises and argued, had this plan been allowed work its course, the receivers would not have been appointed.

The trustees did not appeal the judgment of €18.76 million and acknowledged the sum was due and owing.

The Court of Appeal, comprising Mr Justice Michael Peart, Mr Justice Gerard Hogan and Mr Justice Alan Mahon, found the bank was contractually entitled to appoint receivers over the properties.

Giving the court’s judgment, Mr Justice Alan Mahon said the reality was, by the end of May 2013, the VCF was heading towards “a fairly hopeless situation” in terms of reaching a compromise with BOS.

The VCF had failed to refinance its loans with another bank and its indebtedness to BOS was substantial and increasing, the judge said.

While the confidential information provided to the bank by the VCF’s advisor did go some way to prompt BOS to appoint receivers, it had not been established the disclosure of this information caused or contributed in any way to BOS’s decision to appoint receivers. It was almost certainly the case the decision to appoint receivers was taken, at least in principle, before the bank discovered the VCF’s charitable status had been removed, he said.

The most that could be said was the unauthorised disclosure of this information heightened to some degree concerns within the bank as to the prospect of recovering its debt, the judge added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/church-with-18m-debt-loses-appeal-over-three-properties-1.2245857

seamus

Bloody hell, the stuff some people will try to pull.

They argued the bank was not entitled to appoint receivers because, while the fellowship was in talks with the bank about reaching an agreement over the debt, the bank obtained confidential information, including that the Revenue Commissioners had retrospectively from 2009 withdrawn charitable status from VCF.

That information was disclosed by a person representing VCF in negotiations in relation to the indebtedness and should not have been disclosed as it adversely affected the VCF’s financial position, it was argued.

"We meant to withhold critical material facts about our financial situation from the bank, but someone accidentally told them, so we'd like to pretend that it never happened."

It made them look bad, so they argued that the bank shouldn't be allowed use it against them. That would be like applying for a mortgage and not telling the bank you've been declared bankrupt because it would "adversely affect" your financial position.

recedite

Very good. But apart from these 3 properties that were put up as security for the toxic loans, the trustees/scammers still have another 28 houses or properties in their own names, if the earlier newspaper reports are correct.

And if there was fraud involved, it may be that the unpaid liabilities of the limited company can transfer to the trustees/scammers personally. So the bank may not be finished with them yet. I suppose it depends on how much these 3 properties are worth; if it comes near the €18.7M owed, the bank may just leave it at that.

K.O.Kiki

Maybe that building can be put to some real use soon.

Denalihighway

It is being put to use unfortunately...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760944

Synode

Denalihighway wrote: »

It is being put to use unfortunately...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760944

Where is the confirmation from that it's the scientologists?

Hoagy

Synode wrote: »

Where is the confirmation from that it's the scientologists?

http://www.echo.ie/news/article/no-comment-from-church-of-scientology-amid-victory-centre-rumours

Not confirmed yet anyway.

looksee

A new thread about the Victory Centre has been started at the link given above

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760944

This thread is being closed as it is an old thread and the old content is not particularly relevant to the current discussion.