aggressive puppy

maryjane007

hi everyone,

i have a 10 month old puppy who bares his teeth and growls at children. my own children and their friends. he does it when they try pick him up he hasnt bitten as of yet but i do think he will. we would love to keep him but im terrifed as he gets older hes going to get more aggressive.

im looking for advice on what to do with him, hes our first dog so im at a loss. ive lloked on the web for obedience classes but all i can find are teaching sit etc i really need to get this snapping sorted out soon. i dont have a lot of money to spend on classes so paying a fortunr to someone to come out and do one on one is not an option. does anyone any suggstions we really need help thanks

Sigma Force

I think it's important you think about classes for him if he bites a neighbours kid for example it could end up costing you a lost more. Best to nip it in the bud now, classes aren't as expensive as some may think they can start from12 euro a class and you would be amazed how much you learn in a couple of classes. What type of dog is he?

There's a list of trainers on irishanimals.ie with a link to websites as well if you are in Dublin there's Dog training Ireland just make sure you pic a trainer that uses humane methods.

maryjane007

thanks for the reply. he is a chihuahua and king charles cross. i looked at that website but as i say its my first dog so would an average obedience class help with the snapping?

peasant

Maybe he just doesn't like being picked up?

Few dogs do, actually

EDIT: you might want to start with watching the kids (and training them to give the dog some peace, if necessary)

maryjane007

i thought about that. even if this is the case i still want to ensure that he knows biting isnt acceptable. i dont know how to do that (as i said first time dog owner) i dont want to have to lock him in a corner of the garden when my kids friends are over etc. just in case someone picks him up or hes in a bad humour.

peasant

As I understand it, he hasn't bitten yet.

What is the poor dog supposed to do if it all gets a bit too much?
He can't sit the kids down and have a nice cup of hot chocolate with them and explain it all to them (you could though ) all he can do to voice his protest is warn them off with a growl.

If he was "a biter" he probably would have bitten a long time ago. Make sure he gets some peace and quiet if he needs it and also that your kids understand that he is a living being with needs and feelings and not a toy.

MoonDancer256

Its understandable that he doesn't want to be picked up, but you also need to be able to trust him not to hurt a child in particular, even if he's only a small dog.

You can try the general obedience classes, but honestly that's going to be mostly silly stuff like "sit", walking on the leash, behaving nicely with other dogs etc.

For dealing with aggression towards humans I'd say you need a private session or two with an animal behaviouralist of some kind.

peasant wrote: »

If he was "a biter" he probably would have bitten a long time ago.

Not true at all , the dog is only 10 months old. If anything he is likely to get worse as he gets older and grumpier. Definitely a behaviour you want to nip in the bud before he does decide to take it any further.

Not saying the dog is inherently vicious, but the behaviour needs fixed.

My boxer puppy never liked people picking her up; she doesn't starl, or snap or growl, she just whines a bit. That's how it should be.


At the end of the day, whether or not people on her feel that a bit is UNDERSTANDABLE, it will still result in your dog being put to sleep if it bites some child and the parent prosecutes.

Call me Socket

I agree with Peasant.... Tell the children not to pick him up. Small (and cute I'm sure) as he is, he's still a dog. If you pick him up you take his freedom and choice from him, ie. he can't go to his bed when he's had enough attention for the moment, he can't go anywhere.
Dogs aren't able to shout jesus will you stop picking me up!!...all they can do to communicate a warning is growl or bare teeth. If your kids continue to ignore his warnings then yes, he will bite.... and eh, sorry- but what would you do if you were a dog and finally reached the end of your tether after giving warning after warning after warning that just fell on deaf ears?

peasant

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

For dealing with aggression towards humans I'd say you need a private session or two with an animal behaviouralist of some kind..

I know, I'm nitpicking again ...but growling isn't aggression, not always and certainly not in this scenario

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

Not saying the dog is inherently vicious, but the behaviour needs fixed.

My boxer puppy never liked people picking her up; she doesn't starl, or snap or growl, she just whines a bit. That's how it should be.

I agree with you there, but that's not something a quick training session can fix.

It needs trust and commitment.

The dog needs to be able to trust its owner to defend it, so that it doesn't have to do it by itself. If the dog knows that a whine will summons the owner/leader and get it out of a tricky situation ... then whine is all it will do.

If the dog however doesn't trust/have faith in its leader then it will fend for itself and things may end badly.

That's where the commitment comes into it. The owner/leader has to watch out for the interest of the dog as well and make it feel safe. That is something that will take time ...a long process that needs vigilance and commitment.


Just leaving a dog alone with kids and "training" it not to bite/growl will never work.

MoonDancer256

peasant wrote: »

If the dog however doesn't trust/have faith in its leader then it will fend for itself and things may end badly.

Of course, but growling is still a sign of aggression. Not as bad as biting, but it is fear/aggression.

It needs to be taken seriously.

Possibly the dog will never snap and attack a child. Then again it might.

So if the owner doesn't want their dog to be put to sleep for attacking a child, it would be a good idea to see a behaviouralist who will be able to suggests solutions, including behaviour modification of the owner not just the dog.

Call me Socket

maryjane007 wrote: »

i dont have a lot of money to spend on classes so paying a fortunr to someone to come out and do one on one is not an option.

See above quote: She can't get a behaviourist out.
The dog only growls when they try to pick it up. Wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper, and safer, and preventative, if she told the children not to pick up the dog??? How hard can that be?

dee o gee

Is it just the children that he growls at when they try to pick him up or does he do the same to you?? If its just the children he growls at then maybe he has had a bad experience with a child in the past?
Have you had him checked by a vet to make sure there isint something physically wrong with him, he could be in pain somewhere maybe??
I think a muzzle for the time being around children would be a good idea until you get him checked out by a behaviourist, just in case he bites somebody, itd give you a little peace of mind at least anyways.

Edited to say: Has the dog anywhere to go, such as a crate in a quiet corner, where he can feel safe from everyone. Like his own little den. Cover it with a towel and tell the kids not to go near him when hes in his den, at least he knows he has somewhere safe to escape to when things get too much for him.

MoonDancer256

Call me Socket wrote: »

See above quote: She can't get a behaviourist out.
The dog only growls when they try to pick it up. Wouldn't it be a whole lot cheaper, and safer, and preventative, if she told the children not to pick up the dog??? How hard can that be?

I'm a firm believer in the idea of if you can't afford the care, you shouldn't have the animal.

But regardless...

Telling children not to do something isn't good enough. How many children do you know who do as they're told 100% of the time? If the BEHAVIOUR isn't corrected, the OP will turn her back someday and a child will go "hurr pretty doggy", pick up the pup, get a nice little set of teeth marks on their nose, and a litigous parent will prosecute, then the dog will be put to sleep because the *behaviour* (which is the problem) wasn't corrected.

Perhaps the OP could look to save for a behaviouralist, and in the meantime keep the dog muzzled around children, or away from them entirely.

peasant

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

Telling children not to do something isn't good enough. How many children do you know who do as they're told 100% of the time? If the BEHAVIOUR isn't corrected, the OP will turn her back someday and a child will go "hurr pretty doggy", pick up the pup, get a nice little set of teeth marks on their nose, and a litigous parent will prosecute, then the dog will be put to sleep because the *behaviour* (which is the problem) wasn't corrected.

Prey tell ...how do you suggest to "correct" self defense? Because that's what it is.

The problem is not the behaviour of the dog ...that's perfectly natural ...it's lack of supervision.

the_syco

peasant wrote: »

EDIT: you might want to start with watching the kids (and training them to give the dog some peace, if necessary)

Fully agreed. Our dog is lovely and friendly, except to small kids. She'll bare her teeth, and bark at them. As she is a good natured dog, we think that it was some kid that hurt her that caused the fear/anger the dog has towards kids.

Before you blame the dog, check what the kids have done to it. Sounds like they may not know how to handle a dog, any more than if it was a soft cuddly toy.

MoonDancer256

peasant wrote: »

Prey tell ...how do you suggest to "correct" self defense? Because that's what it is.

The problem is not the behaviour of the dog ...that's perfectly natural ...it's lack of supervision.

That is undesirable behaviour, hence why I suggested talking to a behaviouralist.

I am not a qualified behaviouralist otherwise I would obviously make more specific suggestions. From your posts I'm guessing you aren't either :P

The problem IS the behaviour of the dog, but possibly also the OP as well. My Boxer puppy doesn't growl at children nor do the dogs belonging to any of my friends or family. I have done nothing special with my puppy to get her to behave well, nor do I feel the need to supervise her 24/7. The OP shouldn't have to do this either.

If my puppy started growling at ANYONE, I would be making an appointment to see someone qualified and experienced to help.

But hey, the OP can go with with 24/7 "supervision" if they want.. that's their choice. They asked for advise

Call me Socket

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

Telling children not to do something isn't good enough. How many children do you know who do as they're told 100% of the time? .

My kids don't smoke. Never have done. Though when they were only little toddlers they wanted one of those cigarettes they often saw me with. They also wanted my coffee. And they wanted to sit in the front of the car. But I said NO. And I stuck to my guns on it when they cried or screamed cos they weren't getting what they wanted.
It really isn't that hard to lay down rules and boundaries for the safety of children.

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

I'm a firm believer in the idea of if you can't afford the care, you shouldn't have the animal.

I have 15 animals in my house as I sit here. Hand on heart, I can say I wouldn't be able to afford a professional behaviourist at the moment. I can't afford a pair of shoes at the moment! I do without stuff so the money is there for the essentials like dogfood, catfood, neutering and other vet care. I may be able to afford a behaviourist in 3 months if I needed one, or 6 months ago I could have afforded one, but not right now. The OP never said she never had/will never have the money. She doesn't have it now.

peasant

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

My Boxer puppy doesn't growl at children

I would strongly suspect that this has something to do with the fact that it is rather difficult for children to pick up a Boxer ...at least to the point where it gets annoyed with it

(unlike a chihuahua mix)

maryjane007

my god what have i started. yes i supervise my kids thats how im so very aware of this problem.

he will happily allow some of my children to pick him up even the youngest who can be less than gentle at times yet he has not done it to him. my eldest though he will growl at her when she goes near him. bottom line is though if my children have friends over i dont trust him. he even gets kealous if i hold a baby and has snapped at the babys feet. his behaviour is what needs addressing not my childrens

Call me Socket

Was that your own baby whose feet he snapped at?
Do you pick up the dog? Mollycoddle him? Spoil him and make a fuss of him?

maryjane007

re the money thing as was said i said i dont have a fortune to spend on classes right now. the 12 quid or so a class is not a fortune. : )

maryjane007

no my nieces feet. i dont spoil him my husband does as far as hes concerned the dogs behaviour isnt a problem its the kids fault. hey that sounds familiar

the_syco

maryjane007 wrote: »

he will happily allow some of my children to pick him up even the youngest who can be less than gentle at times yet he has not done it to him.

This shows the dog is not at fault.

maryjane007 wrote: »

my eldest though he will growl at her when she goes near him.

This tells me that your eldest may have done something towards the dog that it didn't like. The kid may not have done it on purpose (I hope), but they've done it, and the dog ain't happy with it.

MoonDancer256

peasant wrote: »

it is rather difficult for children to pick up a Boxer

True now that she's several months old, but for the first few weeks we had her, she was small enough for a good number of children to pick up. My neighbours toddler couldn't lift her so tried death hugging her neck and hauling her up. The puppy just looked a bit worried and wagged her tail and licked the child when released. No hint of barking, not growling, no snapping. Even now children will manhandle her and try lift her, pull her ears, poke her, SIT ON HER etc etc. She's great with it all. She also doesnt get jealous if I hold a child or another animal.

Even the OP has said the behaviour of the dog is the problem here. Although it can be that of the owner / her husband as well.

Snapping at a baby is likely jealousy; that isn't fear, like it could be from a child picking the dog up.

As for the affording animals thing, people should be able to afford their pets - nobody should have 15 pets and not be able to afford them; I have 1 dog, 11 cats and 2 ferrets in my house at the moment, although 6 of those cats are fosters. I'm managing to pay all my bills, although I dont have much, if any, money leftover. Yet when my ferret got sick last month and needed €600 of treatment I had to find the money. Correcting a serious behavioural issue is no different to treating an illness; it is necessary.

On the other hand I'm not suggesting the OP should magic up the money to see a behaviouralist first thing tomorrow morning. It might take a while, but it ought to be done.

peasant

maryjane007 wrote: »

he even gets kealous if i hold a baby and has snapped at the babys feet. his behaviour is what needs addressing not my childrens

Ahh, now ...that's different.

Some small dogs (Chihuahuas chiefly among them) are of the firm belief that the world has no other purpose than to revolve around them and that everybody else only exists to be at their command.

That is behaviour that indeed needs to be addressed.
One of the problems is that due to their small size, these dogs are let get away with small transgressions of the rules ...sure what harm could they do?
But as they are so strong willed and full of themselves, every rule transgressed is a point scored on their way to world (or at least house) domination.

You need to sit down (first by yourself and then with the whole family) and come up with a definitive list of what the dog is and isn't allowed to do.
Then everybody needs to pull at the same string and these rules need to be enforced ...be fair, but strict.
Obviously the children shouldn't be allowed to discipline the dog too much (that's your job) but they need to understand that (for example) feeding the dog scraps from the table / letting it up on the good chair is against the rules and stick to them themselves and prevent the dog from sneaking one past them.

In setting up all those rules ...don't forget about the dog either. It has the right to some privacy. Someone else earlier suggested a safe/sacred place for the dog to retreat and be left alone. That is a brilliant idea and should be implemented as well.

maryjane007

the_syco wrote: »

This shows the dog is not at fault.


This tells me that your eldest may have done something towards the dog that it didn't like. The kid may not have done it on purpose (I hope), but they've done it, and the dog ain't happy with it.

not that im aware of apart from the fact that she may have nearly crushed him with hugs when he first got here. she doesnt do that anymore. she would be the one who walks him the most and he enjoys his walks with her. but he wont let her boss him around, for example put him down off the sofa or send outside

Call me Socket

MoonDancer256 wrote: »

Snapping at a baby could well be jealousy though; that isn't fear, like it could be from a child being picked up.

Jealousy is a human trait. Dogs don't get jealous. The snapping of the neices feet was most likely a possession issue, ie. the humans belong to the dog, he views them as his. He also probably views himself as the alpha in the family pack. This happens when dogs are allowed to believe they're above the humans in status- that message is given to them by the humans, who baby them, fuss over them, carry them around, free feed them and let them have their own way without instilling routine and boundaries.
All dog, like all people, are born good. Experience and rearing and treatment from others can make a person/dog fearful, unsocial, bossy, or dominant. What it boils down to is that if the person/dog is intolerant- then humans have given them reason to be.

Dogs are dogs and they need to understand that their place is at the bottom of the pack, especially in a family environment, and not on the same level as the OP's husband- with the children beneath them at the bottom.

OP- you need to change how the whole family treats the dog. If that doesn't produce big changes in the dog's attitude, then I reckon your options are to A: rehome him to a childfree home, B: find the money somewhere to have the problem addressed by a pro, or C: have the dog pts.

dee o gee

I second what socket says! It does sound like a dominance/alpha issue.

MoonDancer256

Not necessarily dominance; have a read of this article: http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf

To quote from it, "Most unruly behaviors in dogs occur not out of the desire to gain higher rank, but simply because the undesirable behaviors have been rewarded. For instance, dogs jump on people and climb into their laps because when they do so, they get attention."

Way too many people are comparing dogs to wolves, and buying into crap about dominance, and ideas like alpha rolling, when that isn't necessarily the answer. There are HUGE differences between wolves and domestic dogs; for one thing their social structure in a "pack" (actually a small group of wild dogs, not true packs) is completely different to that of wolves, so the dominance is pretty weak.

When I say the dog is jealous, I realise its not the same as human jealousy, yet it is still a similar result; the dog is used to getting fussed and praised and being spoiled, and doesn't like it when the attention is elsewhere. Therefore he bites and snarls to get the OP to get rid of the baby, and pay attention to him again. It's not dominance, but to quote from that article again "Those who are rewarded by success are more likely to continue".