Oh how i wish my parents were bums and had been living off the state all their lives.

asdasd

We should delete off topic posts about foreigners, if they were here for two years it is enough. Better than the people in the dole office.

the problem with social welfare is this: it has a Marxist view of re-distribution. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. This is "fair" only to academics, and posh people with a picture of Engels on the wall.

What the rest of us think is fair is this: if we contribute to the State the State owes us more when we are in difficulty. That would involve a sliding scale of entitlements which you max out with after ten years work. Give single mothers money for having up to two kids, but penalise the fathers. In fact some of the European States - generaly considered more socialist than ours - tend to do something like that, a guarantee of income based on what you earned. That's fair. Getting the same money as someone who has not contributed is unfair.

The solution is simple, OP. Screw the State.

1) Leave home
2) Get a note from your parents saying they are not supporting you and haven't during college ( if you worked). Let them rent out your room, rather than subsidise the State by not getting you rental income.

Then you will get money. And you should.

moiragannaire

Nicola09 I completely agree with you. I went to college and worked through the 4 years and not long after couldnt get a job, but also couldnt get welfare payments until I got a job because I lived with my parents. Its all very well to say move out and then claim your payments, but realistically where does that money from? Even cheap apartments cost money.
The problem lies with the system, I needed support for a couple of months until I got back on my feet, others seem to see the dole as a lifestyle choice. I understand there are people who are in genuine need of help, but there are an awful lot of people out there screwing the system and the rest of us.

BostonB

Bartlet - Why derail this thread with all that. Theres enough there to start about 5 different new threads.

jedbartlet

BostonB wrote: »

Bartlet - Why derail this thread with all that. Theres enough there to start about 5 different new threads.

Very ture, sorry folks, didnt mean to go off on one. Just gets my back up sometimes.

appoligies again.

samsemtex

meditraitor wrote: »

You are the responsibity of your parents,they brought you into this world. This state is not obliged to give you a hand out if your family are in a position to take care of you.......

If you want to live of the state, move out-cut the apron strings! then the state will babysit you

The state will only step in if your parents cannot afford to take care of you!

Grow up

What a rubbish contribution...

Yixian

fintonie wrote: »

oooooooooo the generalization BUMS,

I love it were all bums now because you cant get work or social right thanks for that.

Shh, intelligent comments have no place in this middle class witch hunt of a thread!

Let them eat cake, rar rar rar!

segaBOY

Even though I don't agree with the current system it's up to you OP to take the example of your hard working parents:

-Educate yourself further
and/or
-Find work elsewhere
and/or
-Set up your own business

Do what it takes, living of social welfare may have been debatably comfortable during boom times but it's not going to last forever and it certainly doesn't do any good for filling up spaces on your CV and promoting your career.

Good luck

samsemtex

Well i gots me a job of sorts so hopefully this wont be an issue for another while. That said im not starting for the best part of a month and its onlly until after Christmas but its a start. Better than sitting here doing nothing anyway.

thebman

Electric Sheep wrote: »

What if your parents did as many parent expect from their adult children and charged you rent?

I'd say the assumption would be that your parents are unlikely to evict you if you can't pay rent and will feed you rather than let you starve.

True of most parents even if their kids are in their 30's.

asdasd

True of most parents even if their kids are in their 30's.

Past 29 they assume that the parents are being cared for. At least that used to be the case. After all it used to be common that people lived with their parents, my aunt lived with my grandmother in her later life ( she was married and had children). the Gran had been on her own. She still had income when she moved into my Aunt's house.

But that's neither here nor there I suppose.

meditraitor

samsemtex wrote: »

What a rubbish contribution...

Why?

Im not going to take care of you if your parents can....................... its not the states responsibilty to babysit you!

samsemtex

meditraitor wrote: »

Why?

Im not going to take care of you if your parents can....................... its not the states responsibilty to babysit you!

Who asked you to babysit me?

You're the one who thinks your parents should be responsible for you at 23 and you are telling me to grow up?

Secondly, you're clearly missing the point completely of what i said...

meditraitor

samsemtex wrote: »

Who asked you to babysit me?

You're the one who thinks your parents should be responsible for you at 23 and you are telling me to grow up?

Secondly, you're clearly missing the point completely of what i said...

Im not missing any point, your living at home under your parents roof and you are moaning that your ENTITLEMENTS are being means tested.

This is the jist of it?

CodedFire

This is why I think that they should cut the dole altogether. Giving free money to somebody is crazy. Cut the dole completely and see how many moochers get jobs and yes I am calling them ALL moochers because there are plenty of jobs out there. Granted they are the worst jobs on the planet but it is amazing how quickly somebody will find a better job when faced with starvation or a job digging poo from a well.

Now most people will consider this a rant but I think its true. Just cut the welfare and see what happens. To the OP. You are NOT entitled to any of my money. I gave MY money to the government to run the country NOT to give to YOU or claim back when I decide I can't get a job.

When monster.ie say 0 results found for every job category then we MIGHT talk about free money until then get of your backside and find a job.

thebman

CodedFire wrote: »

This is why I think that they should cut the dole altogether. Giving free money to somebody is crazy. Cut the dole completely and see how many moochers get jobs and yes I am calling them ALL moochers because there are plenty of jobs out there. Granted they are the worst jobs on the planet but it is amazing how quickly somebody will find a better job when faced with starvation or a job digging poo from a well.

Now most people will consider this a rant but I think its true. Just cut the welfare and see what happens. To the OP. You are NOT entitled to any of my money. I gave MY money to the government to run the country NOT to give to YOU or claim back when I decide I can't get a job.

When monster.ie say 0 results found for every job category then we MIGHT talk about free money until then get of your backside and find a job.

I'd agree with this but its nonsense in every possible way. I assume your just taking the piss because if your even a little bit serious then I'm scared for how clueless you are as you may not survive much longer with this level of cluelessness. Please consult a doctor immediately (a psychiatrist).

samsemtex

thebman wrote: »

I'd agree with this but its nonsense in every possible way.

hahahaha

Joe1919

This rule applies when you are 24 years or under.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/irish-social-welfare-system/means-test-for-social-welfare-payments/how_parents_income_can_affect_jobseekers_allowance

Drumpot

With all due respect . . I understand your original post and agree that the S.W. system needs to be revamped to protect those who work hard aswell as those who need financial aid. But basically you are giving out because you cannot claim it, not because you need it.

If you have accommodation and are getting food that should be all you require. .

The attitude you are taking (I am entitled etc) is understandable considering some of the stories of people who get it, but this very attitude is one of the problems with this country . . People believe that the state owes them something. Our taxes arent only paid to subsidise social welfare. Who pays for the infrastructure of an economy ? Who pays the public service pay bill? etc

In the U.S. you get nothing if you arent working. I dont necessarily agree with this line of thinking. I agree that the most vunerable should be protected , but I wouldnt class the OP as very vunerable (based on what they have said).

The dole should be for people/families who struggle to make ends meat, not for people who feel they are entitled to it. If its proven that your parents will not provide for you and you have nowhere to stay or no money for food. . Of course you should get it . .

Otherwise grow up . .

Be thankful you were too young to buy a house and be in negative equity . . Be thankful you have parents who appear to be able to provide food and shelter . . Be thankful that you have internet access to actually air your disgust . . Be thankful you are not your parents working hard, worrying about your sons future . If we all stopped worrying about what others had and focused on the good things we have ourselves, the world would be a better place . .

optocynic

The core of the prickly Welfare issue has only been tickled here.
And the core issue is... a sense of entitlement from all parties.

Serious revamping is required here!

If you and your parents have given the square root of f*ck all to the economy (we all know the types, don't be obtuse!), then you should get slighty more than nothing! And I still need a valid reason for why we don't implement WorkFare!!!

If your parents have worked and paid taxes all during your life.. and you have gone to college... you are an asset.. and should be cared for. But not too much.

Expecting handouts is... pathetic (oh yes... I said it!!!)

thebman

optocynic wrote: »

The core of the prickly Welfare issue has only been tickled here.
And the core issue is... a sense of entitlement from all parties.

Serious revamping is required here!

If you and your parents have given the square root of f*ck all to the economy (we all know the types, don't be obtuse!), then you should get slighty more than nothing! And I still need a valid reason for why we don't implement WorkFare!!!

If your parents have worked and paid taxes all during your life.. and you have gone to college... you are an asset.. and should be cared for. But not too much.

Expecting handouts is... pathetic (oh yes... I said it!!!)

Workfare is unconstitutional apparently. Not against it depending on implementation.

I think if you don't have sufficient contributions, you should be given 6 months to find work with regular dole rates before they make you work for it as many people may not have contributions but are genuinely trying to find work and I don't think having them cleaning streets all day will help them find a job faster.

I think it should be for people who clearly don't want to work and voluntary for everyone else so people can volunteer to demonstrate they want to work.

Anyway so far any implementation I've put forward someone has found a massive flaw in so I'm not going to go further in depth on one :P Needless to say, its not as easy as just doing it.

optocynic

Very interesting reply. However, from a moral and integrity viewpoint... those reasons people give you are actually excuses.

I agree with the 6 month rule.. but if you start demanding the dodgers sweep the roads, you will weed them out pretty sharpish!!

slamman

OP you were saying that you have to be renting for 6 months to qualify for rent allowance and you also said "THEY" expect your parents to support you.

But at 23 years old you have decided to live under your parents roof, eat they're food and have the benifit of they're heating. This mightn't sound much to you but if you ever lived in the real world you'd realise that it is, and that people on social welfare have to spend the money they get on things like these as they aren't provided for them like they are for you.

You have been an adult for 5 years and you and not just the government are the one that expects your parents to support you.

If you had been turned down then you might have a reason to complain but to complain about having a means test, it seems to me that you really need to get your prioritys in order!!!

Tipp Man

thebman wrote: »

Workfare is unconstitutional apparently. Not against it depending on implementation.

I think if you don't have sufficient contributions, you should be given 6 months to find work with regular dole rates before they make you work for it as many people may not have contributions but are genuinely trying to find work and I don't think having them cleaning streets all day will help them find a job faster.

I think it should be for people who clearly don't want to work and voluntary for everyone else so people can volunteer to demonstrate they want to work.

Anyway so far any implementation I've put forward someone has found a massive flaw in so I'm not going to go further in depth on one :P Needless to say, its not as easy as just doing it.

Without a shadow of doubt workfare needs to be introduced asap, the idea of handing people money for nothing is simply ridiculous.

A simple idea is, you get 6 months welfare after losing your job without doing anything to allow people time to get new job etc, after 6 months you then have to work say 20 hours a week (say the welfare of EUR 200 divided by minimum wage of what 8.90 gives 22hrs) and this should be continued as long as you claim welfare. Its pretty simple and applies to everyone who wants social welfare, and the key is that nobody is exempt, you don't do the hours you don't get paid the next week. And i don't mean jobs just for cleaning the street etc, all kinds of work that need to be done by the government or on their behalf

I can't understand how this couldn't work, hell we could have the cleanest, tidiest and best set up country in the world

optocynic

Should the OP's parents really have to struggle now to support their son, after they have raised him and put him through college?

Have they not done what we wish every parent in this country did?

Have they not earned the right to not be included in the current economic situation their son finds himself in?

Or are we not all 'equal'??

That is my arguement... I could have just as easily said...

[IMG]http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/C:\Documents and Settings\dm\Desktop\Darren\dismissivewank.gif[/IMG]

Drumpot

optocynic wrote: »

Should the OP's parents really have to struggle now to support their son, after they have raised him and put him through college?

Have they not done what we wish every parent in this country did?

Have they not earned the right to not be included in the current economic situation their son finds himself in?

Or are we not all 'equal'??

That is my arguement... I could have just as easily said...

I believe your missing the point and working off the whole "entitled to" argument . .

I believe the Dole is not meant to be about what you are entitled to, its meant to help subsidise you with alterenative remuneration when you need it most . . OP's parents are well within their rights to not support the OP, but you shouldnt expect to have it both ways (living at home with food and shelter and the Dole). .

In the current economic climate I dont see how you can argue that somebody living at home should get €200 a week that they may not desperately need.

If Ive been paying taxes for 10 years and never claimed a thing. Ive taken a pay cut and am struggling with my liabilities. My parents could help me out, but why should they? they have paid their taxes for over 50 years and never claimed a penny. I have paid tax on buying property, doing it up, I have worked hard in college and after work education while in full time employment. I have a 6 month old son and my wife has been put on short time (but we arent entitled to state aid because of my salary which is all gone on liabilities) Should I get state aid because I earned it and paid my taxes ? If so, where do we stop ?

Tipp Man

optocynic wrote: »

Should the OP's parents really have to struggle now to support their son, after they have raised him and put him through college?

Have they not done what we wish every parent in this country did?

Have they not earned the right to not be included in the current economic situation their son finds himself in?

Or are we not all 'equal'??

That is my arguement... I could have just as easily said...

[IMG]http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/C:\Documents and Settings\dm\Desktop\Darren\dismissivewank.gif[/IMG]

This country has to be one of the worst in the world for the idea of take from the "RICH" and give to the "POOR". The reason i highlight these 2 words is that anyone who shows a bit of initiative or go ahead or is in any way successful is seen as rich while the people who take the most, complain the most, and contribute the least are classed as poor when infact neither are what they are pertain to be. The complete lack of support, and in fact i would call it a prohibitive stance, shown to small business in this country means that very very very few small business owners could every get rich, all they get is long hours, lots of stress and lots of hassle (employment laws and Health and Safety being 2 of the worst)

Then you have the "POOR" who in fact must be the richest poor people in the world considering the level of welfare they are all getting. I've spent some time in Rio and let me tell you we have only a handfull of poor people in this country by comparision, in fact i would think that poverty doesn't exist in Ireland when you see what real poverty is.

Too many people in this country are envious of what they think Tom Dick or Mary has, there's too many do gooders for this country to be anything more than a glorified socialist state. Do gooders who aren't doing a whole lot i might add

And to the OP I feel for you i really do, its typical of what i have highlighted above, Daddy has a business, must be rich, how dare you claim for anything from this state, you should be paying the state in fact. Its a disgrace let me tell you, you should be as entitled to welfare as anyone else in this state

Tipp Man

Tipp Man wrote: »

you should be as entitled to welfare as anyone else in this state

Just a question on this, if say the OP's parents were on welfare long term and he was living at home, how would this affect his application and how much would he be entitled to?? (I have no idea by the way)

Drumpot

Tipp Man wrote: »

Just a question on this, if say the OP's parents were on welfare long term and he was living at home, how would this affect his application and how much would he be entitled to?? (I have no idea by the way)

Did you just quote yourself ? ? ?

optocynic

Tipp Man wrote: »

Then you have the "POOR" who in fact must be the richest poor people in the world considering the level of welfare they are all getting. I've spent some time in Rio and let me tell you we have only a handfull of poor people in this country by comparision, in fact i would think that poverty doesn't exist in Ireland when you see what real poverty is.

Amen to that brother!!!

I too have been in Rio, and when I see how some of those people live, in such close proximity to the 'RICH' there, and yet have no sense of entitlement.. and then I come home, and hear the greedy/lazy malcontents here whinge all day because their dole won't pay for the stolen Nintendo Wii Deco robbed from my house... I get furious!!!!

optocynic

Drumpot wrote: »

I believe your missing the point and working off the whole "entitled to" argument . .

I believe the Dole is not meant to be about what you are entitled to, its meant to help subsidise you with alterenative remuneration when you need it most . . OP's parents are well within their rights to not support the OP, but you shouldnt expect to have it both ways (living at home with food and shelter and the Dole). .

In the current economic climate I dont see how you can argue that somebody living at home should get €200 a week that they may not desperately need.

If Ive been paying taxes for 10 years and never claimed a thing. Ive taken a pay cut and am struggling with my liabilities. My parents could help me out, but why should they? they have paid their taxes for over 50 years and never claimed a penny. I have paid tax on buying property, doing it up, I have worked hard in college and after work education while in full time employment. I have a 6 month old son and my wife has been put on short time (but we arent entitled to state aid because of my salary which is all gone on liabilities) Should I get state aid because I earned it and paid my taxes ? If so, where do we stop ?

I think you are missing the point... in that your liabilities should not be there.. you are working, as is your wife... you should have a major tax break for childcare!!..

But if we went to the nearest dole queue, and picked 10 people at random, I will show you at least 5 spongers.. and if we did it this time last year.. I would show you at least 9!!!