Polish history

Jakub25

Hello Everybody
Is here anybody who like polish history,
if yes please look at those links.

Some of the best facts from our history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLhZBIKL_cQ

Poland borders 990-2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAVVWlUywO0&feature=related

Battle of Mokra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETzEboEs1Q

For all centuries we fight and here is the answer why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLC2hsYlh9o&feature=fvw

I'm intresting also in Irish History.

McArmalite

Jakub25 wrote: »

Hello Everybody
Is here anybody who like polish history,
if yes please look at those links.

Some of the best facts from our history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLhZBIKL_cQ

Poland borders 990-2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAVVWlUywO0&feature=related

Battle of Mokra
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETzEboEs1Q

For all centuries we fight and here is the answer why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLC2hsYlh9o&feature=fvw

I'm intresting also in Irish History.

There was a similiar thread on maybe 12 months ago. Unfortunately about the only history we ever get to hear about Poland is World War 2. The interesting thing that I have found talking to Polish people, and indeed Eastern Europe in general, is that every single one of them said the Stalin was even worse than Hitler.

Jakub25

Same like me, before i came to Ireland I know
that Ireland exist nothing more, but now
i know a lot about fights with wikings,
Irish Rebellion of 1798 and more.

Most of pepole of eastern europe know something about
Irleland because they heard news in tv about IRA,
but now it's changing.

Kintarō Hattori

Thanks for those links. I've had a passing interest in Polish history (my Fiancée is Polish) but it's such a long and eventful history I didn't know where to begin.

Empire o de Sun

I never realised that Poland got so big, empire like at one stage, going to the Black sea.

I always thought it was strange that the UK pledged to defend Poland in WWII but only declared war on Nazi Germany, and not the USSR.

I suppose if they did they would have deffo lost or the war last allot longer before the Germany would have been defeated.

Were any of the lands seized by the USSR ever returned to Poland?

McArmalite

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

I never realised that Poland got so big, empire like at one stage, going to the Black sea.

I always thought it was strange that the UK pledged to defend Poland in WWII but only declared war on Nazi Germany, and not the USSR.

I suppose if they did they would have deffo lost or the war last allot longer before the Germany would have been defeated.

Were any of the lands seized by the USSR ever returned to Poland?

" I always thought it was strange that the UK pledged to defend Poland in WWII but only declared war on Nazi Germany, and not the USSR. ". EXCELLENT POINT.

Fratton Fred

The anglo polish treaty, which was veery sinilar to the franco polish treaty, only catered for aggression by Germany.

meathstevie

McArmalite wrote: »

" I always thought it was strange that the UK pledged to defend Poland in WWII but only declared war on Nazi Germany, and not the USSR. ". EXCELLENT POINT.

Probably for the following reasons :

The British knew the risks of fighting the Russians in a conflict of any scale.
Remember the Crimean war and the support for the "whites" in the civil war after the revolution. And above all the failed French-Napoleonic invasion to which the British were first row spectators.

The threath of Nazi-Germany to France and the UK was a lot more realistic than the Soviet one, hence the support for Poland being concentrated on Germany.

The fact that the part of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact dealing with the carving up of Poland was secret didn't make it any easier for the Western allies to fully understand the devious caracter of Stalin and his gang of thugs.

Jakub25

How can you explain me that poland was fighting from 1september to 6october
with almost all forces from germany and after 17 september
also with Soviets.

Hitler attack France in 1940 10may-22june, and it was end of Western.(France)

How it is that poland was fighting 36 days fighting alone (1939)
and france (1940) together with great Brittan
also with helping polish forces(80,000 men)
with much better everything (tanks,bombers,fighters) what poland didn't have in 1939.

The fights ended after 43days???

Yes, we were helping western after 1939 you know
why because we wanted to have free country.

Polish Division 303 Battle of Britain.
Revenge for 1939 September.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODLPX25oc-w

The bloodies battle at Monte Cassino 1944
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoU1SpHhbcg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYjkJ-BFRv0&feature=related


Sabaton - union

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxCZ7MFrou8

Sabaton - 40 to 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoQj8GGHNxU&feature=related


And after all West sell as to Soviet union after
evrything what we had done for West.
If you can count always count on yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference

FiSe

Polish campaign was the 1st real war experience for the 'new' German army. And yes, the polish resistance to the invasion was fierce.
France and BEF experienced full impact of Chamberlain 'everlasting peace' and Munich treaty in terms of much better equipped and experienced enemy, who learned his polish lesson well.

I think that above mentioned Polish force in the field wasn't as large during french campaign, nevertheless, there were fighting Poles in the French Army and French Air Force.

The story of Polishmen in the RAF and British Army after the fall of France is well known, I think and they did well.

Yalta conference is or was what it was. Nothing we can do about it, Czechoslovakia lost almost 1/3 of it's size, Poland lost the east, but gained on the west, Baltic states were eliminated for good, Germany split in half and so on...
The Russian bear got too big and too hungry with massive help of the, now new enemy, USA and Britain over the war years, that it was impossible to stop it unless some food has been thrown at him.
Sad for the victims, sad for the victors.

Jakub25

FiSe wrote: »

I think that above mentioned Polish force in the field wasn't as large during french campaign, nevertheless, there were fighting Poles in the French Army and French Air Force.

So you think 80.000Polish solidiers in france before german attack
it's nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Armed_Forces_in_the_West

Real help from western were bombers throwing
stultify Hitler leaflets on the german factories in 1939 september.

Nobody from western doesn't wanted to die for poland.
They thought after Austria, Czech and after Poland,
that it will be enought for Hitler so it is no reason for real fights.
West didnt' do anything for poland in 1939september.
I' thinking about real help not this what was during phoney war.
From 3 september 1939 france and brittan had war with germany.

FiSe

You didn't get my point, am not arguing the numbers, what I am saying is, that:
'...after the German invasion of France, all Polish units were pressed in formation, although due to French inefficient logistics and policies, all Polish units were missing much equipment and supplies; particularly the 3rd and 4th divisions which were still in the middle of organization...' taken from Wiki

Empire o de Sun

I find this all fascinating, the eastern front, and the territorial changes, mass expulsions (ethnic cleansing today or "population exchanges" then).

It all good reading it in a book about WWII, but when you can see drom google the Berlinika, it makes it a bit strange. Cos that's a relick of former eastern Prussia. It's this long stragit-ish line from Koenigsberg (Kalingrad) to Berlin, mostly abandoned motorway.

I saw a history programme about how Stalin had killed all the Polish officers, churchill asked him what happened to the Polish Army when the Soviet union took over (invaded). "We killed them all".

I'm not an expert in this but I'd love to read more about it.

Jakub25

Today is 70years from starting this everything and still a lot of open
problems most with Russia they kill 22.000 Polish
military officers, policemen, intellectuals and civilian prisoners of war by Soviet NKVD.Nobady do that.

The Soviet Union continued to deny the massacres until 1990,
when it finally acknowledged the perpetration of the massacre by NKVD
but we had know who did it much longer before 1990.
Stalin russian hero give order to kill them all it is very sad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

meathstevie

It's not completely accurate to say that the Germans gained their experience in Blitzkrieg warfare in Poland. They perfected their techniques in the Spanish Civil War through the Condor Legion fighting on Franco's side. Even if the actual spearheading attacking formations were heavily mechanised and had relative to the times massive airsupport the logistics side of the German military was still very much a slow horse drawn affair.

LimeFruitGum

If you can, do read "Poland" by James Michener. It is a historical novel, taking three typical families (one peasant, one middle-class, one aristocratic) and intertwining their story with the key events of Polish history. It goes from the Teutonic Knights and Tartar invasions to 80s Communism.
I would also recommend reading Adam Zamoyski for a well-written, factual take on Polish history.

Who'd have believed that a country could go from being a huge kingdom to being wiped off the map for 120 years, when Austria, Russia and Prussia waded in and helped themselves.

seancoistine

Anyone interested in the decline of Poland in the 100 years before the partitions which divided it between Prussia, Austria and Russia. The nobility weakened the monarchy by making it elective and inviting the surrounding powers to play a part in the elections. When they saw the danger they tried to reverse it, but they had left it too late.

The parliament had a rule called the 'librum veto', which said that one vote against was a veto. Reminds me of our notions that we can veto the Lisbon treaty.

Anyhow the end of the story was that the Polsh nobility lost everything by making Poland the battle ground for Austria-Germany v Russia over two WWs in the 20th c. The ordinary Poles have had a bad 200 years from all that.

mcyclist

Surely the first engagement in WW2 by Poland was to invade Checkeslovakia, at same time as Germany .

seancoistine

mcyclist wrote: »

Surely the first engagement in WW2 by Poland was to invade Checkeslovakia, at same time as Germany .

They only took a teen-weeny bit of mountain that sticks into Poland.

Poland took a good chunk of Lithuania including the capital Vilnius around 1920 on the grounds that this region had a substantial Polish population.
With the break up of the central european empires into nation states every ethnic group made claims on on neighbouring countries on the basis of local ethnic majorities.
Is Dublin part of Poland yet?

FiSe

seancoistine wrote: »

They only took a teen-weeny bit of mountain that sticks into Poland.
....
Is Dublin part of Poland yet?

As it happened, that tiny little bit of mountains was pretty rich on black coal and heavy industry

I though that Newbridge is 2nd town of........Poland?

OldJay

LimeFruitGum wrote: »

If you can, do read "Poland" by James Michener. It is a historical novel, taking three typical families (one peasant, one middle-class, one aristocratic) and intertwining their story with the key events of Polish history. It goes from the Teutonic Knights and Tartar invasions to 80s Communism

James A. Michener??? He was a fictional writer.
If you want to learn the history of a place, forget about fiction. You might as well read Enid Blyton for the history of Margate.

For Polish history there are numerous great works by Norman Davies on various elements.
Jews in Eastern Europe, Rising '44, Europe - A History, Heart of Europe, God's Playground, Europe at War - No Simple Victory are all excellent well-researched reads.

donaghs

Jakub25 wrote: »

The Soviet Union continued to deny the massacres until 1990,
when it finally acknowledged the perpetration of the massacre by NKVD
but we had know who did it much longer before 1990.
Stalin russian hero give order to kill them all it is very sad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Jakub25, seen the recent film about Katyn? any good?
Trying to get my hands on Andrzej Wajda's "Kanal" about the Warsaw Rising.

FiSe

Don't want to slip into movie talk, but while on the topic...
Jacob The Liar and The Pianist, two amazing movies from Warsaw ghetto, both pimped up a bit for the mass viewers, nevertheless brilliant.

Jakub25

mcyclist wrote: »

Surely the first engagement in WW2 by Poland was to invade Checkeslovakia, at same time as Germany .

We took it back.
In 1920, when we were fighting with soviets, Checkeslovakia had took that disputable teritory.

donaghs wrote: »

Jakub25, seen the recent film about Katyn? any good?
Trying to get my hands on Andrzej Wajda's "Kanal" about the Warsaw Rising.

I think that movie "Katyń" isn't so good like "Pianist" but is worth to see.

mcyclist

Was never part of Poland, It had formerly been part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. After ww1 it was devided between Poland and Czechoslovakia. Poland took advantage of German treats on Sudatenland to annex all of Teschen. It was restored to Czeckoslovakia after ww2.

Snickers Man

I've a question for Polish people here. Let me start with a preamble.

It always gets my goat when the British and Americans claim the credit for "liberating" Europe from the Hun in world war two. Drunken English soccer supporters in Brussels sneering "If it wasn't for the English you'd be Krauts" at the local police, or American commentators and politicians arrogantly demanding gratitude from all and sundry on the grounds that "You'd all be speaking German if it weren't for us" always raises my hackles.

Incidentally, it is usually Americans with German names like Luntz, Grohmert and Krauthammer who come out with this bile, thereby proving that as a nation they just don't get irony.

Of course there were no British or American soldiers in Poland following its surrender in 1940 and the main force defeating the Germans there was the Red Army.

So here's my question: If somebody stood up in a room full of Polish people today and said "Friends, we owe our national sovereignty as it stands today to the sacrifice of the Soviet people, and the heroic deeds of the Red Army. We would all be speaking German today were it not for their vanquishing the Nazi forces in our country and surrounding territories. We must never forget the price paid by Soviet blood and treasure for the freedoms we enjoy today and indeed have enjoyed since 1945. I propose a toast: to the memory of Josef Stalin. Raise your glasses please!".......

....would they get out alive?

Just curious.

spurious

Slightly OT, but when I was first in Poland in 1984, my friends told a 'joke' which went...

A Pole has to shoot two enemies, a German and a Russian. Which does he shoot first?

The German. Business before pleasure.

Jakub25

Snickers Man wrote: »

So here's my question: If somebody stood up in a room full of Polish people today and said "Friends, we owe our national sovereignty as it stands today to the sacrifice of the Soviet people, and the heroic deeds of the Red Army. We would all be speaking German today were it not for their vanquishing the Nazi forces in our country and surrounding territories. We must never forget the price paid by Soviet blood and treasure for the freedoms we enjoy today and indeed have enjoyed since 1945. I propose a toast: to the memory of Josef Stalin. Raise your glasses please!".......

....would they get out alive?

Just curious.

I think that Polish-communsts were doing like that after secon war
but they were cheat themselves.

Today situation is diffrent we can speak about Katyń
and others bolsheviks-soviets crimes.


How we can love Stalin?


We stop bolsheviks revolution in 1920war.
Mikhail Tukhachevsky was blaming Stalin after losing war.
Poland stop Lenin plan to export communism to central europ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJX0MJotVyE&NR=1

Artur.PL

Jakub25 wrote: »

How we can love Stalin?

It's very interesting what "brave" Red Army soldiers did after they had liberated Poland. There were no differents for them: Polish or German women(even Russian, who were liberated from the concentrations camps), they raped all of them. It's only one example.

Dr_Phil

McArmalite wrote: »

Unfortunately about the only history we ever get to hear about Poland is World War 2.

True, sometimes I get impression that some people seem to be kinda surprised that Poles still don't wear striped clothing...

markesmith

Going back further to the Russian-Prussian partition of Poland, and its links with the Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania in the Commonwealth, the history of Poland is really fascinating. It was effectively a buffer zone between Russia and Prussia, with the Habsburgs also having designs on it.