Better cables better quality ?

da4i's

Hi lads,

Studying in college and to my knowledge the speed and quality of a cable is a standard.

Are monster cables REALLY better quality than your standard cheap scart cable ? I understand they may be better for housing in the back of the units, but is it really better quality ?

Anyone know where you can buy these monster cables for cheaper prices that DID ?

Thanks for all help,
Sorry if this is the wrong forum,

Dave

Idleater

da4i's

nereid ; is that another way of saying that its a load of rubbish ?

Thanks,
Dave

big_moe

he is saying that you're opening a can of worms. there's some people who say that with digital signals, cables make no difference. and then there's the people who believe that better cables give you better quality. i personally believe in better cables giving better results.

in analogue cables (scart etc) i think most agree that the better quality does give you better results. monster cables are ferociously overpriced. get a good QED cable for the same money (maybe cheaper) and it'll be miles better than a monster cable

adam

Idleater

da4i's wrote: »

nereid ; is that another way of saying that its a load of rubbish ?

Apologies for the post, but you don't want to read what I was going to post, and thankfully I didn't or I would possibly be banned :pac:

I'd agree with what big_moe says.

To put it in context, I'm in the camp of "you get what you pay for" but that is more on spending on quality than name. For audio and video (analog) cables I bought mark grant cables, which are cheaper than Monster and IMO better.

I did however not buy a budget HDMI cable - because I am going 10m and underground.

andy1249

This is the most sensible and correct site Ive come across for advice on speaker cable.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

As long as the cable is thick enough for the distance involved , the job will be done , no point spending a fortune on the stuff.

The 10% of your hi fi spend usually touted by the sellers is nonsense , this subject is a can of worms because the cable selling business if full of conmen.

Are monster cables better than others ? Absolutely not !!

As far as digital cables go , just get the cheapest you can , they will all do the same job. Digital cables pass data , not analog signals , as long as the data is the same coming out as it was going in , the job is done. ( And this is undeniably true for 99.999999 % of all digital interconnects. unlike analog interconnects , digital interconnects can be BER tested , thats bit error rate , a rate of 0% means it cant be any better , and most have this.)

HDMI only has issues over 10 meters and this is due to attenuation , there are ways around this that are cheaper than spending a fortune on 10m + super cables.
HDMI Baluns and cat 5/6 cable is a very good and reasonably priced solution for a long run or buried or wall run. Much better than a super cable because regardless of how well its made any 10m + hdmi cable will have the attenuation phenomena to some extent.

Regardless of what solution you go for with HDMI , there are no subtle differences in quality , that is totally impossible , no piece of wire can change or improve a binary data stream.
All it can possibly do is lose bits of it , and because there is no data correction with HDMI , that usually means picture breakup or no picture at all , i.e. it works or it doesnt.

See here for all the advice you will ever need on HDMI cables.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/hdmi-cables-switches/

Idleater

andy1249 wrote: »

blah blah blah

OP, this is why I said can of worms. I'm not prepared to open this argument again, suffice it to say that there are too many generalisations in this post to pick out and clarify each and every one of them.

To many people the look of the system means spending more on cables, which is not a problem and flies in the face of any of andy's points. I'm sure he has no problems with ferrari's or aston martins or whatever floats his boat.

My advice: pick a budget, whatever you decide it doesn't matter, and find cable suppliers that are in that bracket.

Do your research on the avforums cables and interconnects forum and check out the offers and suppliers section.

andy1249

Generalisations my foot !!

I posted nothing but facts , simple as ,

What you really have to watch out for when shopping for cables is conmen and BS artists and keep your eyes on your pocket.

This is engineering , not magic , and there are simple verifialble facts governing how these things work.

Slaphead07

andy1249 wrote: »

Generalisations my foot !!

I posted nothing but facts , simple as ...

No, you just posted opinions and narrow-minded uninformed ones at that. I wouldn't claim to know much about digital cables but there's no doubt whatsoever in analogue hifi cables do make a difference - whether that's a positive or negative one is up to the listener.

I'd ask a mod to lock this here... the OPs question has been answered and we all know where it's going.

cnocbui

Slaphead07 wrote: »

...but there's no doubt whatsoever in analogue hifi cables do make a difference ...

<snip>

It was previously suggested a sticky on this topic be created but nothing happened. I propose a sticky be created with two sections, one section advocating the case for audible differences between analogue audio cables and a second section setting out the opposite case. Then whenever this topic crops up, posters can be referred to the sticky and decide which of the two opposing points of view they believe.

I for one would be willing to write or contribute to the section advocating there being no audible differences.

Slaphead07

cnocbui wrote: »

I for one would be willing to write or contribute to the section advocating there being no audible differences.

nice open minded attitude there.

Idleater

nereid wrote: »

I stand over this post.

Mods, suffice it to say that the op has been enlightened that everyone agrees that monster cables are over rated for the price.

Whether posters can stand over comments that assume that Square phase transitions always reside in every consumer product producing analogue signals and therefore refute the fact that in not every case a 1 = 1 is another matter.

viperirl

@Ritz,

How about just putting up a sticky about where to get some decent well manufactured speaker cable/interconnects that dont cost silly money and will work well in any system. I've have my stuff a long time so I dont know what the best outlets are these days.

On the subject of "exotic" cables, mention that science and blind testing do not back up the claims made by some manufacturers and that it's up to the buyer themselves to decide if they are worth the purchase.
Lets just leave at that then.

Any future questions on cables will get refered to this sticky otherwise the inevitable heated arguments will always occur.

big_moe

cnocbui wrote: »

Complete and utter BS.

ah here, i can see the basis of where you guys are coming from with the whole "digital cables, no difference" thang, but i thought we were all singing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to analogue?!

Slaphead07

big_moe wrote: »

ah here, i can see the basis of where you guys are coming from with the whole "digital cables, no difference" thang, but i thought we were all singing off the same hymn sheet when it comes to analogue?!

You've no idea man. I don't understand how people who haven't heard a difference (in my experience it's because their systems are incapable of such nuances) be so adamant that the rest of us can't either. The differences between interconnects and even mains cables can be huge and bloody obvious.

viperirl

Slaphead07 wrote: »

You've no idea man. I don't understand how people who haven't heard a difference (in my experience it's because their systems are incapable of such nuances) be so adamant that the rest of us can't either. The differences between interconnects and even mains cables can be huge and bloody obvious.

Brave.

Slaphead07

viperirl wrote: »

Brave.

Yes, but as you well know:rolleyes: the mains supply to an amp's transformers is critical to its performance. I've purposely left out speaker cable as its differences are not as obvious

cnocbui

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Yes, but as you well know:rolleyes: the mains supply to an amp's transformers is critical to its performance. I've purposely left out speaker cable as its differences are not as obvious

You wouldn't be baiting me by any chance, now would you? :rolleyes:

The Ritz

I'm happy to acquiesce to requests to lock this thread, and even happier that it comes from the posters in question, thanks guys, appreciate that this thread has elicited a few huffs and puffs but has not gone tots up as usual.


To the OP: you can see from the responses that nothing provokes strong opinion like the question of cables. Take what you want from the discussion, I would be inclined to do some reading and thinking and buy on the basis of suitable technical standard for the application, rather than a particular make.

All:
It has been suggested that a "standard" Cables advice thread be drafted and that future queries be directed to that post as the standard advice from the community here, instead of having blood and snot all over the place everytime the issue is raised.

I don't think that I'm qualified to write the thread in it's entirety from the get-go, but I have an idea which might work out.

I intend to open a thread on Standard Cable Advice. I will ask posters, most particularly the "regulars", to give their advice on the kind of cables to use for audio and video, analogue and video, bearing in mind the community here and the type of equipment that the majority of users will be using.

I will also ask for opinioins/recommendations on "high-end" equipment and the reasons why people would make particular choices at this end of the market.

Here are the killer rules: you can only post once. I am not opening up a thread for discussion, because I have no wish to see OMG (and a lot worse) responses. You are asked not to submit a thesis on your position - say you think coat-hanger wire is the best thing for connecting any speaker because all electrons are the same, the end. The purpose of the thread is to canvass opinions, you are not allowed to comment on any way on other opinions, just one chance to say what you think is appropriate to use. If posters try to use their opportunity to pass comment on an existing post i.e. "ignore people who say xxx" or the equivalent, deletion and a ban will ensue.

The thread will be opened in HE General shortly.

Ritz.