Road closed in Carpenterstown today?

BostonB

My comments were unrelated to the accident.

The problems are obvious to anyone.

Dravokivich

Dam... was wondering why there were flowers around there alright.

Only been up at woodbrook a year, but to be honest that road all the way through is insane, alot of people drive too fast along it, not just "boy racers," who i don't seem to hear ripping it down as much now either.

- Drav!

daymobrew

Lightnessalways wrote: »

It is now August 2009..closer to the two year mark when the March survey was done and the schools were on mid term break when it was carried out....even at that look at the number of cars mentioned and that was not done over a week! and as for the December survey...well.....schools were off...then too, but that is besides the point and as you appear to live in the area you will no doubt have noticed that the volume of traffic has more then doubled and continues to grow on a daily basis since either of these surveys were carried out.

FCC Transportation got back to me on the dates:
The first survey was 27/March/08 to 2/April/08. It only covered 1 direction as it was using a trial traffic/speed recording that FCC were considering buying.
The second survey was 9/Dec/08 to 23/Dec/08. It covered both directions.

Looking at the St Patrick's NS Calendar for 2009/2010 and making some guesses for 2008, the school was likely open for much of the survey, especially the second one.

LeSageMignon

Here's the problem, plain and simple - many people (including mothers with children in the car and drivers of all ages) think that the road traffic laws are open to interpretation and alteration.

Whenever I try to drive at the speed limit on that road (or any in Ireland!) I have cars driving up my a** and over-taking at high speed (and occasionally menacing gestures from the driver behind).

When I slow down to turn into Fernleigh the car behind me simply can't wait til I've made the turn but overtakes at high speed as I turn.
Most drivers on that road don't even slow down for the roundabouts and God forbid they should even indicate correctly.

The problem in short is arogance and selfishness. No amount of alterations to roads will solve that. What might help is a stronger Garda presence on roads and hard-hitting fines or penalties, leading eventually to a change in attitudes.

Lightnessalways

Many thanks for that information, It's much appreciated and it will come in very useful.

daymobrew wrote: »

FCC Transportation got back to me on the dates:
The first survey was 27/March/08 to 2/April/08. It only covered 1 direction as it was using a trial traffic/speed recording that FCC were considering buying.
The second survey was 9/Dec/08 to 23/Dec/08. It covered both directions.

Looking at the St Patrick's NS Calendar for 2009/2010 and making some guesses for 2008, the school was likely open for much of the survey, especially the second one.

Lightnessalways

Hi,

There are a lot of issues with regards to the Diswellstown Road speeding just being one of them and you have quite rightly described a few of issues, many of course as you have rightly pointed out occur all across this country's roads and I can relate to all your points, I have experienced bullying and threatening behaviour from other motorists on this road on a number of occassions because I refuse to exceed the speed limit on one occassion I was forced off the road not far from where last weeks tragic events happened by a speeding bullying motorist who preceded to overtake me into on coming traffic on a bend.....

I know that there was an accident up at Fernleigh at the entrance into the estate toward the end of July and thank god no-one was killed there either, the lady had a very lucky escape from what I have been told.

I wholly agree that enforcement is the better option, but can anyone really see that happening any time soon. So we find ourselves having to look at other options. I don't know if anyone was driving/walking on the Diswellstown Road there today at the school pick up & drop off times?, I was there and it beggared belief at the conduct of some of the parents picking up their children coupled with the behaviour of other motorists! including bus drivers, I appreciate that today 2/9/2009 weather wise is a nasty one but that does not excuse bad driver behaviour. How there has not been a head on collision when all this is going on I really do not know.

The one thing that I am sure of is that we need to do something and something soon.

LeSageMignon wrote: »

Here's the problem, plain and simple - many people (including mothers with children in the car and drivers of all ages) think that the road traffic laws are open to interpretation and alteration.

Whenever I try to drive at the speed limit on that road (or any in Ireland!) I have cars driving up my a** and over-taking at high speed (and occasionally menacing gestures from the driver behind).

When I slow down to turn into Fernleigh the car behind me simply can't wait til I've made the turn but overtakes at high speed as I turn.
Most drivers on that road don't even slow down for the roundabouts and God forbid they should even indicate correctly.

The problem in short is arogance and selfishness. No amount of alterations to roads will solve that. What might help is a stronger Garda presence on roads and hard-hitting fines or penalties, leading eventually to a change in attitudes.

BostonB

I think the worse time on the road is between about 5 and 9 pm in the evenings. Theres of lunatics of all types flying up and down the road. Far worse than school time IMO.

Fast food delivery guys are bad aswell.

Pineapple stu

Firstly i sympathise with the family of the child that died.

Instead of blaming the council and the road users for the childs death , firstly realise that the child ran into the path of an oncoming car and unless that car was just crawling along then the driver had no chance to avoid the accident seeing that she ran from behind a parked bus.
This happens all the time in Dublin, a child dies and its always someone elses fault when the fault may lie closer to home.

Lightnessalways

cymro wrote: »

Firstly i sympathise with the family of the child that died.

Instead of blaming the council and the road users for the childs death , firstly realise that the child ran into the path of an oncoming car and unless that car was just crawling along then the driver had no chance to avoid the accident seeing that she ran from behind a parked bus.
This happens all the time in Dublin, a child dies and its always someone elses fault when the fault may lie closer to home.

Hi,

Appreciate your point and I am aware of the circumstances and that Càit ran after her dog. I also know that there are conflicting stories..as to the driver of that car, that is now in the hands of the Gardai and not for me to comment any further on. But the fact is, this tragedy happened and the Council have been made aware so many times over the last number of years by residents constantly complaining about conditions on this road. I am not sure if you are familar with the area, but there are quite a number of issues with the Diswellstown Road of which the Council, D.O.T, local Councillors and the Gardai are more then aware of, they all know that there are serious issues on this road and these issues need to be addressed. There have been a number of serious accidents on this road over the last few years and there are far to many horror stories to even start with, And yes the Council, the D.O.T. and others have to take responsibility for the dangers this road presents. They are allowing it to continue despite evidence to show otherwise and they are quite happy to say that is not the case and they now can not do anything about this due to lack of funding. Something has to be done and motorists using this road HAVE to slow down.

BostonB

Unrelated to this accident. There are serious issues with speeding and bus parking on this road since it was opened.

Gaspode

Was this accident on Diswellstown Road or Carpenterstown Road?

BostonB

Diswell. Though the other road is bad too.

Pineapple stu

Lightnessalways wrote: »

Hi,

Appreciate your point and I am aware of the circumstances and that Càit ran after her dog. I also know that there are conflicting stories..as to the driver of that car, that is now in the hands of the Gardai and not for me to comment any further on. But the fact is, this tragedy happened and the Council have been made aware so many times over the last number of years by residents constantly complaining about conditions on this road. I am not sure if you are familar with the area, but there are quite a number of issues with the Diswellstown Road of which the Council, D.O.T, local Councillors and the Gardai are more then aware of, they all know that there are serious issues on this road and these issues need to be addressed. There have been a number of serious accidents on this road over the last few years and there are far to many horror stories to even start with, And yes the Council, the D.O.T. and others have to take responsibility for the dangers this road presents. They are allowing it to continue despite evidence to show otherwise and they are quite happy to say that is not the case and they now can not do anything about this due to lack of funding. Something has to be done and motorists using this road HAVE to slow down.

With all due respects, you can put all the safety measures on the road as you like it still wont stop a child running out into the road.
Ive driven along that road plenty of times and its no diffrent to any other busy road in a built up area and i see nothing wrong with it.
Neither the council nor the D.O.T are responsible for the tragedy that happened or are responsible for other peoples errors.
How many time have we watched the news or read the papers and saw that someone died of a road accident and the relatives blaming the road being dangerous instead of blaming the driving actions that led to the accident or the actions of the individual?. Its always a case of lets blame someone else.
There is not a single road in this country that is dangerous, its the way that some people drive along them that makes them dangerous to themselves and others but the road itself is ok. Every accident is down to human error and not down to the road itself.

Stark

A car doing between 30 and 50 km/hr is much less likely to kill a child that runs out than a car doing 60 to 80km/hr. Any sensible traffic system will have speed limited to 30km/hr outside schools as the likelihood of having a child running out is high.

BostonB

cymro wrote: »

With all due respects, you can put all the safety measures on the road as you like it still wont stop a child running out into the road.

The accident that happened may not have been caused in this instance because of the existing problems, it may even have been unavoidable. However that doesn't mean there are not issues with this road.

cymro wrote: »

Ive driven along that road plenty of times and its no diffrent to any other busy road in a built up area and i see nothing wrong with it.

Your dead wrong. They've turned it into a rat run by building a bridge to allow access into a housing estate so that it can be used as a major route from all the over developed estates beyond, towards the city center. They also blocked the main Clonsilla road making it one way, feeding massive amounts of traffic though the estate. They also keep building long straight roads through housing estates, with no physical speed restrictions, and when theres no enforcement, and knowing human nature its always going to promote speeding. Even on race tracks they physically redesign tracks to keep speeds down.

cymro wrote: »

Neither the council nor the D.O.T are responsible for the tragedy that happened or are responsible for other peoples errors.
How many time have we watched the news or read the papers and saw that someone died of a road accident and the relatives blaming the road being dangerous instead of blaming the driving actions that led to the accident or the actions of the individual?. Its always a case of lets blame someone else.

There is not a single road in this country that is dangerous, its the way that some people drive along them that makes them dangerous to themselves and others but the road itself is ok. Every accident is down to human error and not down to the road itself.

Can't agree at all. There are lots of known black spots on roads. We used to have many more it was a familar sign around the country. But a lot have been eliminated by improved roads. But yet there are still lots of poorly designed junctions, bad lane markings, bad drainage prone to ice, aquaplaning, the list is endless. If you don't allow for human nature then its a bad design. Who do you expect to be using these roads? Robots? People are human, the road should be designed accordingly.

Someone designed these bad roads, but them in place. Decided to have 2 lanes change to 3 then back to 2 on a roundabout, or made a junction, lanes so complicated that people get confused and weave last minute. Its like putting the sign for a turn at the turn instead of 1000m before it. Or build a bus stop at a blind bend, or grows plants on a roundabout so its completely blind. Someone is responsible for that.

Lightnessalways

BostonB wrote: »

The accident that happened may not have been caused in this instance because of the existing problems, it may even have been unavoidable. However that doesn't mean there are not issues with this road.



Your dead wrong. They've turned it into a rat run by building a bridge to allow access into a housing estate so that it can be used as a major route from all the over developed estates beyond, towards the city center. They also blocked the main Clonsilla road making it one way, feeding massive amounts of traffic though the estate. They also keep building long straight roads through housing estates, with no physical speed restrictions, and when theres no enforcement, and knowing human nature its always going to promote speeding. Even on race tracks they physically redesign tracks to keep speeds down.



Can't agree at all. There are lots of known black spots on roads. We used to have many more it was a familar sign around the country. But a lot have been eliminated by improved roads. But yet there are still lots of poorly designed junctions, bad lane markings, bad drainage prone to ice, aquaplaning, the list is endless. If you don't allow for human nature then its a bad design. Who do you expect to be using these roads? Robots? People are human, the road should be designed accordingly.

Someone designed these bad roads, but them in place. Decided to have 2 lanes change to 3 then back to 2 on a roundabout, or made a junction, lanes so complicated that people get confused and weave last minute. Its like putting the sign for a turn at the turn instead of 1000m before it. Or build a bus stop at a blind bend, or grows plants on a roundabout so its completely blind. Someone is responsible for that.

Thank you BostonB,

I could not have but it better myself.

Pineapple stu

BostonB wrote: »

The accident that happened may not have been caused in this instance because of the existing problems, it may even have been unavoidable. However that doesn't mean there are not issues with this road.



Your dead wrong. They've turned it into a rat run by building a bridge to allow access into a housing estate so that it can be used as a major route from all the over developed estates beyond, towards the city center. They also blocked the main Clonsilla road making it one way, feeding massive amounts of traffic though the estate. They also keep building long straight roads through housing estates, with no physical speed restrictions, and when theres no enforcement, and knowing human nature its always going to promote speeding. Even on race tracks they physically redesign tracks to keep speeds down.



Can't agree at all. There are lots of known black spots on roads. We used to have many more it was a familar sign around the country. But a lot have been eliminated by improved roads. But yet there are still lots of poorly designed junctions, bad lane markings, bad drainage prone to ice, aquaplaning, the list is endless. If you don't allow for human nature then its a bad design. Who do you expect to be using these roads? Robots? People are human, the road should be designed accordingly.

Someone designed these bad roads, but them in place. Decided to have 2 lanes change to 3 then back to 2 on a roundabout, or made a junction, lanes so complicated that people get confused and weave last minute. Its like putting the sign for a turn at the turn instead of 1000m before it. Or build a bus stop at a blind bend, or grows plants on a roundabout so its completely blind. Someone is responsible for that.

The estates are fenced/walled off with pedestrian entries onto the footpath and turn in's for cars . Dont make out that the cars are flying by inches from peoples front doors and kids playing outside their front gardens and that they built the road after the houses was built.
If they closed off one end then you would be arguing that you have to drive round and maybe get caught at the level crossing.
That bridge was built at the same time as the houses so people moving into them houses knew the layout before hand.
Black spots only made when there are to many careless drivers not paying enough attention in that area. If you drive normally then any so called black spot wont bother you.
To sum it up, every road is dangerous if you decide to run into the middle of it from behind parked cars etc. If you want to retrive something that has gone onto a busy road then you follow the old green cross code which parents should be constantly telling their kids about.
One poster said on here that the council have now got blood on their hands,what a typical blame someone else comment. The council didnt make that child run into a busy road from behind a parked bus. The car driver that hit the girl wouldnt have a chance. Its sickning that a group of people are using this to have a go at the council and blame them for the death just to get what they want in the area. The council seems to be in a no win situation.

BostonB

cymro wrote: »

The estates are fenced/walled off with pedestrian entries onto the footpath and turn in's for cars . Dont make out that the cars are flying by inches from peoples front doors and kids playing outside their front gardens and that they built the road after the houses was built.

Actually the road was a lot quieter at the start. Regardless you don't expect people to be doing 80, 100 kmph in an estate. You get alsorts tearing up that road. One evening there was a Ferrari doing speed runs up and down. If you paid attention you'd have noticed theres a cycle path, for kids, two schools and a park on that road. Most of the roads are open to that road at their end. So theres a lot of kids and parents using that road, footpath and cycle path. I get the impression you're not that familar with the road at all.

cymro wrote: »

If they closed off one end then you would be arguing that you have to drive round and maybe get caught at the level crossing.
That bridge was built at the same time as the houses so people moving into them houses knew the layout before hand.

Ahem actually they built the bridge afterwards. Traffic increased vastly once it opened it. I don't think anyone could have anticipated the vast estates they'd build beyond Clonsilla when there wasn't the road capacity to take the traffic. Or that they'd make the main Clonsilla road one way in the middle, bring yet more traffic over the bridge. I take it you don't know the area well at all. They intended running the road from porterstown into it aswell, so expect all the traffic on that, which is rat run to lucan to run into the estates too.

Initially the level crossing was a big problem. (for those rat running - not me) But in fact all the bridge has done is move the problem to the next junction. The problem is there isn't the road capacity for all the development in the area. At the weekend the poor layout, one way and the traffic to Blanch center means its all a car park anyway. The level crossing is only a minor part of that. Which is what the residents said from the start.

cymro wrote: »

Black spots only made when there are to many careless drivers not paying enough attention in that area. If you drive normally then any so called black spot wont bother you.

Er no its unexpected and usually catches people out driving normally. Thats why they put a sign there, and eventually change the road. If you found how to handle black ice and aqua planning,though driving technique alone. patent it. it would be worth millions.

cymro wrote: »

... Its sickning that a group of people are using this to have a go at the council and blame them for the death just to get what they want in the area. The council seems to be in a no win situation.

Er no people have been complaining about this road and a couple of others for years. Nothing new about it at all. Only ye come lately think it is.

No ones with responsibility got off their butt to do anything about it. Other than the useless speed sign. Part of the problem was many of the roads weren't handed over by the developer to the council. AFAIK the developer built the ramps on the other road, not the council. I suspect some roads are still not handed over. I think the bridge was only built as a condition of planning permission so the developer could build more in the area. I could be wrong on the latter.

Pineapple stu

Lets put like this. Ive been living in the area far longer than them houses have been there. I remember that chap that had the horse on the scrap of land which is now coolmine station car park and the shed he kept it in across the road which are now apartments. I watched them houses/apartments being built.

That bridge was in the planning for years .

If you are decent driver then you should be able to handle black ice, surface water etc, you drive to the conditions of the road and not use the speed limit as a target that must be reached. Same goes for driving in built up areas where you always have an eye out just in case kids run onto the road.
In this incident the fault was with the child and not the road or any driver.
Its plain obvious that the road was quieter at the start because not all the houses where built or had been occupied.

If the council put in every traffic calming measures they could like ramps speed cameras etc then you will have those complaining about them and that they are bad for their cars and restrict their movements.
Has any of the residents come up with a sutible solution?
One thing i agree with is the way the local councillors are now jumping on the band wagon.

BostonB

cymro wrote: »

Lets put like this. Ive been living in the area far longer than them houses have been there. I remember that chap that had the horse on the scrap of land which is now coolmine station car park and the shed he kept it in across the road which are now apartments. I watched them houses/apartments being built.

That bridge was in the planning for years .....

Malones coal merchants was there before the apartments across form the car park. Don't remember a horse. Lots of things get planned and not built. Odd you don't remember the bridge came after the houses. Problems with the diswellstown road have been in the local papers for years and all the local councillors have been on that band wagon for years.

http://roderic.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/buses-parked-on-diswellstown-road-are-an-accident-waiting-to-happen/

http://www.riverwoodres.com/news/27/17/Diswellstown-Road-traffic-volumes.html

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/meeting_doc.aspx?id=32954

http://www.communityvoice.ie/pages/CV130/CV130n10.htm

So this is old news. Maybe its new to you.

Stark

cymro wrote:

If you are decent driver then you should be able to handle black ice, surface water etc, you drive to the conditions of the road and not use the speed limit as a target that must be reached. Same goes for driving in built up areas where you always have an eye out just in case kids run onto the road.
In this incident the fault was with the child and not the road or any driver.

Question: was it in front of or near the school that the child ran out in front of the car? Because a child running out on the road near a school doesn't qualify as an unexpected event and the driver should have been doing a speed that allowed him to either stop completely or at least be driving at a speed that wouldn't have caused death.

BostonB

Despite the impression cymro gives, loads of kids/families use that road. its the main route to the schools. Where the accident happened is at the back gate of one school (and a park) and about 1000m from another school. Just where a bus parking bay and stop is. That said I don't know the facts, but my guess would be it was unavoidable but tragic accident. Its kinda speculation to suggest otherwise, or indeed that the ongoing issues with the road are connected in anyway.

Taken as a seperate issue entirely. The links above clearly show the road is an issue, and that everyone was aware of it, for years. Its not just a kneejerk reaction to the recent accident. Desipte sugestions otherwise.

Gaspode

There are very few 'unexpected' events really when you're a driver. You should be prepared for anything to happen. That's the theory anyway. But if driving through a residential area, you should absolutely always expect that a someone, especially a child, could come out between cars, or from behind a bus. That's why the 50kph upper limit is there in the first place, to give you time to react because this sort of thing has a history of happening on a regular basis.

Of course there are times when even travelling at 10kph you may not be able to stop pn time to avoid hitting someone if they come at you quick enough. I dont know the ins and outs of the accident mentioned, so I'm not commenting on whether that particular driver did anything wrong. I dont know if he was speeding or driving without due care, and I'm not sure if anyone else on here can make that call either.

However, my experience of that particular road, and the road down to Riverwood is not good - I have been regularly harrassed by drivers itching to get by me even though I've been up at 50kph, and I've had one assh0le overtake me by driving over a roundabout!
I think the rat run element to that road probably does contribute to speeding in the area.

Pineapple stu

Stark wrote: »

Question: was it in front of or near the school that the child ran out in front of the car? Because a child running out on the road near a school doesn't qualify as an unexpected event and the driver should have been doing a speed that allowed him to either stop completely or at least be driving at a speed that wouldn't have caused death.

What was reported was that the child ran from behind a parked bus onto the road to retrive something which i think i read was her dog.
I agree with your post.

Pineapple stu

BostonB wrote: »

Malones coal merchants was there before the apartments across form the car park. Don't remember a horse. Lots of things get planned and not built. Odd you don't remember the bridge came after the houses. Problems with the diswellstown road have been in the local papers for years and all the local councillors have been on that band wagon for years.

http://roderic.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/buses-parked-on-diswellstown-road-are-an-accident-waiting-to-happen/

http://www.riverwoodres.com/news/27/17/Diswellstown-Road-traffic-volumes.html

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/minutes/meeting_doc.aspx?id=32954

http://www.communityvoice.ie/pages/CV130/CV130n10.htm

So this is old news. Maybe its new to you.

Im on about the apartments right at the level crossing.

Odd? why? stop trying to be sarcastic



Its old news if you a reqular on the green party and riverwood web sites and thats an on line edition of the community voice.
Dont make out that its been a major topic in the local press for years.

I was on my local committee when we had issues with a very busy and major road in the area, we had a few meetings with council officials and councilors and we were successful in getting a pedestrian crossing located close to the shops which solved our problem. Its still a busy road but our residents can cross the road more safely.
Instead of complaining and moaning about the issues and expecting others to come up with the solution, wouldnt your committee's be better off coming up with the solution first and then campaining to get them implemented?

BostonB

Pointing out glaring incongruities isn't sarcasam.

The facts are simple. There are two schools and local park on the road. Thinking about it, theres a third school at the other end and a pedestrian walkway to a 4th school off this road. Can't be many roads with 4 schools in the immediate area. The issues are well documented over many years by almost everyone including the council.

dirtynosebeps

cymro wrote: »

What was reported was that the child ran from behind a parked bus onto the road to retrive something which i think i read was her dog.

wrong, cait actually ran out from in front of a parked bus.

cymro wrote: »

If you are decent driver then you should be able to handle black ice, surface water etc, you drive to the conditions of the road and not use the speed limit as a target that must be reached. Same goes for driving in built up areas where you always have an eye out just in case kids run onto the road.
In this incident the fault was with the child and not the road or any driver.
Its plain obvious that the road was quieter at the start because not all the houses where built or had been occupied.

i'm sorry to say to this but what you've said is utter bull unless of course you were there to witness the tragic death. there are a few people that actually knows what really happened that afternoon and none of them are on here.

Stark wrote: »

Question: was it in front of or near the school that the child ran out in front of the car? Because a child running out on the road near a school doesn't qualify as an unexpected event and the driver should have been doing a speed that allowed him to either stop completely or at least be driving at a speed that wouldn't have caused death.

stark just to give you and idea, about 15-20 yards up at most from where cait was killed is a set of pedestrian lights which are constantly being used, when approaching any set of lights you must be prepared to stop.
i'm sick and tired of people saying hardly anyone speeds. i'll tell ya all something for nothing. it aint also the crowd from blanch, corduff or where ever else you want to blame for speeding. it's your neighbours, it's also alot of residents that live between the school and the new flyover bridge that tear up and down that road.and i can also tell you all this as well. it's a game of beat the clock and thats exactly what alot of muppets are trying to do.
as i posted earlier. i once saw a traffic jeep parked behind a bus doing a speed check. all other road users were flashing all the other cars to slow down .so everyone that flashed the other driver are as much to blame for whats going on. if the speeders are being caught instead of being flashed to slow down things would be different.
if your not speeding i.e. sticking within the speed limit for those of you that dont understand meaning of speeding you wont have to slow down anyway for a speed check.
now for gods sake stop blaming the young girl and stop making excuses.

BostonB

The temptation to speed is the same for locals as it is for the rat runners. I don't see any difference. The sheer volume of traffic can't be primarily local traffic though.

Gaspode

Folks, interesting discussion and I'd like to see it continue, so please dont let it get personal

Stark

Lightnessalways wrote: »

Do you know what Stark,

I am going to be the bigger person here and apologise for calling you a twit. It was uncalled for and out of line and I take it back, I really shouldn't have taken the bait, However you have taken a lot, in fact most of my Comments totally out of context and totally mis quoted me. It would appear that you seem to think I was wholly on the motorists side which is so not the case! If you read my original posts, I really didn't think that I would have to bang on about just how irresponsible a lot of motorists are..it goes without saying, you can see it on the roads every single day and I am sure we could sit here all night swapping horror stories.

Having said that you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

Anyway, bit late, but I meant to apologise for my own behaviour on thread. I was a bit wound up at the time and I forgot the rule about thinking before posting stuff in the heat of the moment. I'm sorry for making false accusations and being rude.

I still stand by my opinion though that a good traffic calming system should include as many active elements that make drivers think as possible and should not just rely on inert measures like speed bumps. I passionately believe in shared spaces as a way towards achieving this goal, although with the way the road is at present, we're a good bit off from that. With the speed bumps however, I think we will eventually get to a point of speed bump saturation and everyone will just adapt by buying cars with higher wheelbases and better suspension and we will be back to square one. They're also problematic for emergency services trying to get through, in particular ambulances carrying sensitive equipment. I think mini roundabouts and chicanes (artificial curvature to reduce the temptation to speed on long straight stretches) and the like are better imo as they force people to pay attention more and the emergency services can just drive straight over the roundabouts. Just some ideas for your meeting.