Motorway Cops kick L driver ass!

Jeanxx

Alun wrote: »

Unfortunately it's not your driving instructor's job to determine whether you're fit to drive on your own, that's the job of the RSA's driving examiners. And if he does (as some do) recommend you to drive on your own for 'practice' before passing your test, then he deserves to have his licence as a driving instructor revoked.

He didn't say I should drive on my own. I said when he's happy with my driving and thinks I should go book my test.

Listen I don't have a full licenced driver to sit with me while I'm driving and to be honest I'd love to have one there with me, it would be great but I won't have one at my disposal. If people are going mad over me having the idea to drive on my own later down the line with a learner permit then come down to me and sit with me in the car while I drive around.

I'm not arguing with anyone because you have valid points, you do of course. I was in a car crash there a while ago so I know it's dangerous but I'm stressing the point that I won't have a full licenced driver around all the time and I'm going to drive when I've booked my test and when I've had many more lessons.

ardmacha

I won't have a full licenced driver around all the time and I'm going to drive

So you have a need and screw the law. Just as people are in a hurry and this justifies speeding, or there is nobody to drive them home from the pub, ........

Jeanxx

ardmacha wrote: »

So you have a need and screw the law. Just as people are in a hurry and this justifies speeding, or there is nobody to drive them home from the pub, ........

Hold on you didn't even put in the end of my quote...

You're putting me in the same bracket as drink drivers and people who speed?
I don't even have a car to drive in yet. Have put no one in danger.

corktina

In a nutshell, you and all other unqualified drivers should stay off the roads and stop putting peoples lifes at risk (mine included) until you can prove your ability. Its not a game, its dangerous enough out there.

Jeanxx

corktina wrote: »

In a nutshell, you and all other unqualified drivers should stay off the roads and stop putting peoples lifes at risk (mine included) until you can prove your ability. Its not a game, its dangerous enough out there.

Have I put anyone's life in danger yet? Am I going to let my life be endangered, let alone anyone else's? No. I won't.

Ok hypothetically, a driver with a learner permit has their test in the afternoon. They go as an unqualified learner driver and then pass and drive home without L-plates and qualified. So they were an unsafe and incompetent driver in the morning but obviousy not in the afternoon... :rolleyes:

Not talking about me because I can't drive competently or properly yet as I've repeated a hell of a lot of times in my previous posts and also that I won't be going on the roads on my own anytime soon. I'm also not talking about all L-drivers because a lot of them are dreadful on the roads and should not be there rightfully.

murphaph

Jeanxx wrote: »

Some people just hop in a car nowadays after a few lessons from a friend or a parent and think they can drive.

I think even in Ireland, those days are coming to an end.

Jeanxx

murphaph wrote: »

I think even in Ireland, those days are coming to an end.

So they should too. No disputes there.

Alun

Jeanxx wrote: »

I'm also not talking about all L-drivers because a lot of them are dreadful on the roads and should not be there rightfully.

Two golden rules of driving (of many) ...

1) Everyone thinks they're better than most other drivers on the road.

2) They're usually wrong.

In short, you might be the best driver in the world by the time it comes to take your test, but until you can actually prove it to someone other than your self, by passing a driving test, all the self confidence in your own abilities in the world (or even that of your driving instructor) counts for absolutely nothing.

murphaph

Jeanxx wrote: »

Ok hypothetically, a driver with a learner permit has their test in the afternoon. They go as an unqualified learner driver and then pass and drive home without L-plates and qualified. So they were an unsafe and incompetent driver in the morning but obviousy not in the afternoon

But how does the world know that a driver is competent unless we go through the formality of proving it to a driving tester? One would hope an incompetent learner would fail and have to practice some more before re-applying and that a competent LEARNER would be deemed so and given a pass certificate. The point is that someone has to make that judgement and that person should never be the driver him/herself.

The situation is eminently more logical than in years gone by where a learner could LEGALLY show up alone at the test centre and be officially deemed incompetent and LEGALLY drive home alone afterwards! Now that was crazy!

Alun

murphaph wrote: »

The situation is eminently more logical than in years gone by where a learner could LEGALLY show up alone at the test centre and be officially deemed incompetent and LEGALLY drive home alone afterwards! Now that was crazy!

That was only in the case of being on a 2nd provisional though.

Jeanxx

Alun wrote: »

Two golden rules of driving (of many) ...

1) Everyone thinks they're better than most other drivers on the road.

2) They're usually wrong.

In short, you might be the best driver in the world by the time it comes to take your test, but until you can actually prove it to someone other than your self, by passing a driving test, all the self confidence in your own abilities in the world (or even that of your driving instructor) counts for absolutely nothing.

I do agree with you 100%. I'm not advocating bad driving, I'm not here to try to prove I'm fantastic at driving and I can go out and just drive. I have a very long way to go! I'm anxious to get better and take my test. A lot of people on here are making me out to be an awful person who has no regard for others and that is not the case at all. I respect everyone's opinions still but I'm in no way fit to drive on my own at the moment and I wouldn't dream of it. I still have to get the loan for the car so I'm still a long way off

Capt'n Midnight

Jeanxx wrote: »

even just out on the road for a couple of hours a week I've witnessed incompetence by full licenced drivers (not indicating, tailgating, pulling out in front etc...)

Yes there are muppets with license , BUT there are a lot of L-drivers out there without plates.

Compared to other countries Irish drivers are scary, but that doesn't excuse you.

I need a car to get to college and work because the public transport is so bad to the places I have to go and is costing me way too way especially because I have to get taxi's a lot of the time.

When I went to college no one in the class had cars until the final year and then you could count them on your thumbs. If you can't afford transport consider digs. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but cars are a privelige you have to earn , not a right. I'm very in favour of the French system of having a manslaughter charge in all fatal collisions.


TBH this is the whole self certificating debate.
Driving tests only exist because people can't reliably self certify themselves as safe drivers. Otherwise we wouldn't not need them.

Jeanxx

murphaph wrote: »

But how does the world know that a driver is competent unless we go through the formality of proving it to a driving tester? One would hope an incompetent learner would fail and have to practice some more before re-applying and that a competent LEARNER would be deemed so and given a pass certificate. The point is that someone has to make that judgement and that person should never be the driver him/herself.

The situation is eminently more logical than in years gone by where a learner could LEGALLY show up alone at the test centre and be officially deemed incompetent and LEGALLY drive home alone afterwards! Now that was crazy!

I agree, I want to take my test. I never said I didn't want to take it at all.

murphaph

Alun wrote: »

That was only in the case of being on a 2nd provisional though.

Yeah I know. It was still a 2 YEAR window in which to kill someone through incompetent driving

Jeanxx

I wouldn't even worry about me being on the roads on my own anytime soon anyway as I still scream occasionally during my lesson when a light changes...

I have a very long way to go yet before I even step into a car without dual controls

RustyNut

Jeanxx wrote: »

I wouldn't even worry about me being on the roads on my own anytime soon anyway as I still scream occasionally during my lesson when a light changes...

I have a very long way to go yet before I even step into a car without dual controls

You seem to have a very good attitude towards your own and every body else's safety and that is always a good thing.
Nobody can blame someone for wanting to get on the road asap, driving is not rocket science but like most things we all need to learn so maby instead of planing to drive solo on a learner permit you could plan to buy and insure your car just after you pass the test I dont think the wait is to long and think of the
$$$'s you will save on insurance. Extra cash to fit a big exhaust, black windows and furry dice.. or a slightly newer nicer car...

Jeanxx

RustyNut wrote: »

You seem to have a very good attitude towards your own and every body else's safety and that is always a good thing.
Nobody can blame someone for wanting to get on the road asap, driving is not rocket science but like most things we all need to learn so maby instead of planing to drive solo on a learner permit you could plan to buy and insure your car just after you pass the test I dont think the wait is to long and think of the
$$$'s you will save on insurance. Extra cash to fit a big exhaust, black windows and furry dice.. or a slightly newer nicer car...

Haha, I think I'll pass on the big exhaust and windows... but the furry dice, that's a maybe

jhegarty

Has the RSA every produced any statics showing what the accident rate is for "L" drivers ?

Empire o de Sun

Why is there such a lax attitude to road rules enforcement here. L plates is just one part. I've seen allot of L plates on Motorways and unaccompanied. Are the Gards just not interested in paperwork? It's the same with breaking lights, and parking, they seem to have absolutely no interest in enforcing the law as it is.

Carawaystick

PCPhoto wrote: »

back to the topic at hand..... L-Drivers on the Motorway should have their cars taken - if anything - to teach them to respect the law/rules of the road.

Personally I think "Rules of the Road", "Emergency First Aid" and "basic Car Mechanics" should be part of school education....and no-one should be allowed to drive without proper education on how to deal with car problems or in the event of an accident.....maybe people need to meet victims of road accidents to "Learn" of the risks involved with driving.

Anyway ..just my two cents

As the L driver may not be the owner of the car, taking it off the actual owner without due process of the law is illegal, as property rights trump pretty much everything else in Ireland.

I don't see why schools which are currently under-resourced as it is should be forced take on extra work. Teaching rules of the road for cyclists and pedestrians is ok but anyone learning to drive should educate themselves from their own pockets.
Why just stop at basic car mechanics? why not have Motorbike and agricultural vehicles mechanics?

Most first aid certs are only valid for a limited time usually 2 years or so. so all the investment in teaching first aid would go out of date - I've been instructed in 3 different methods of CPR in my life, as the best practise methods are refined by new research.

What do you do with modern cars that are unrepairable without a specialist computer diagnosis tool? this will become more common in the next few years.

corktina wrote: »

I believe a license of any kind shouldnt be provided unless the applicant has completed a course with a professional instructer, say 10 hours ....

I don't think this should be an issue. The test asserts it tests the competency of the driver. What would the ten hours instruction add, that isn't picked up by the test? The test should be improved and structured to pick up these issues.
You could have ten hours stopped in traffic, ten hours driving in the wilds of Connemara and not see another car, etc.

corktina

Jeanxx wrote: »

Have I put anyone's life in danger yet? Am I going to let my life be endangered, let alone anyone else's? No. I won't.

Ok hypothetically, a driver with a learner permit has their test in the afternoon. They go as an unqualified learner driver and then pass and drive home without L-plates and qualified. So they were an unsafe and incompetent driver in the morning but obviousy not in the afternoon... :rolleyes:

Not talking about me because I can't drive competently or properly yet as I've repeated a hell of a lot of times in my previous posts and also that I won't be going on the roads on my own anytime soon. I'm also not talking about all L-drivers because a lot of them are dreadful on the roads and should not be there rightfully.

How can anyone tell if you are going to put someone at risk? Oh I know, we'll call it a driving test!

corktina

Jeanxx wrote: »

I wouldn't even worry about me being on the roads on my own anytime soon anyway as I still scream occasionally during my lesson when a light changes...

I have a very long way to go yet before I even step into a car without dual controls

well youve a whole two months to get over that before you can take a test...timing seems to me to be about right doesnt it!

What you going to do if you fail? Drive to college anyway I suspect...

Jeanxx

corktina wrote: »

well youve a whole two months to get over that before you can take a test...timing seems to me to be about right doesnt it!

What you going to do if you fail? Drive to college anyway I suspect...

I'll apply for my test when the two months are up and providing what my instructor says as I'm not going to be driving before then anyway.

You seem to have an awful chip on your shoulder over learner drivers regardless of anything I've said even though I've stated my views on personal safety and the safety of others on the road. I'd suggest you get over that & stop worrying over me. I'll be fine. So will everyone else on the roads.

corktina

Ok...we'll just cross our fingers then...:D

but you did say you were going to drive unaccompanied before your test...

Jeanxx

corktina wrote: »

Ok...we'll just cross our fingers then...:D

but you did say you were going to drive unaccompanied before your test...

I wouldn't say I'll be driving on my own this side of Christmas or even after & I'd say I'll get the test shortly after hopefully so I'll wait anyway if that's the case... I did say I would drive on my own but unless I don't get my test for months and months I'll more than likely wait... Because I'm just too scared to go out on my own really, sure I'm scared with the instructor in the car & I would never ever risk anyone's life or my own because I feel the need to drive.

You are right, I don't disagree at all & I'd much rather wait to have my test (hopefully pass it!) and then drive but if I fail then I'll get more lessons because I know I won't want to drive on my own anyway! :P

corktina

well done to you, sorry to nag you .

Jeanxx

corktina wrote: »

well done to you, sorry to nag you .

Not at all, sure listen you're right at the end of the day
The road is a scary place

Alanstrainor

Jeanxx wrote: »

I'm only learning to drive for the last four months. I haven't reached the six month period when I can apply for my test.

I know exactly what the learner permit is but I'm still going to drive to work and college while I am waiting for my driving test and when I feel confident and prepared enough to drive on my own.

Jeanxx wrote: »

I agree, I want to take my test. I never said I didn't want to take it at all.

Jeanxx wrote: »

I'll apply for my test when the two months are up and providing what my instructor says as I'm not going to be driving before then anyway.

There is a lot here i could have responded too, but i just wanted to let you know. You can APPLY for your test at any time, however you can only sit the test after having your Learner Permit for 6 months. So you should apply now if you think you'll be ready in 2 months, waiting times are some where in the region of 10/11 weeks.

Jeanxx

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There is a lot here i could have responded too, but i just wanted to let you know. You can APPLY for your test at any time, however you can only sit the test after having your Learner Permit for 6 months. So you should apply now if you think you'll be ready in 2 months, waiting times are some where in the region of 10/11 weeks.

Oh really?
I didn't know that at all, thanks for that

The more posts I wrote the more I was thinking... Actually I'm pretty scared to drive on my own in the foreseeable future!! So I'll apply for my test soon so... Hopefully it will just be after Christmas because by then I think I'd be ok-ish... I may as well just do it & see what happens & then get more lessons & go for it again.

Sabrielle

i was caught by a handheld camera driving unaccompanied on a provisional license? what happens now? thousands of euros fines and off the road?

Jeanxx

Sabrielle wrote: »

i was caught by a handheld camera driving unaccompanied on a provisional license? what happens now? thousands of euros fines and off the road?

Was there a Guard holding the camera? I'm a bit confused...

If it was a speed camera then they wouldn't actually see you in the car on your own because it just measures speed.

It's up to the Guards discretion in any case if they want to summons you for driving without a full licenced driver, this is usually if they pull you over though. I've never heard of anyone being in trouble for driving on a permit on their own wherein they got caught on camera...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Sabrielle

the garda was holding a camera like thing up to her face

Jeanxx

Sabrielle wrote: »

the garda was holding a camera like thing up to her face

That's a speed camera. It's not designed to catch people driving on a permit on their own or outdated tax, insurance etc... It's only designed for speeding.

Sabrielle

but I don't know if points apply to learner permits anymore, i just think they put you off the road if you are caught speeding etc.

Jeanxx

Sabrielle wrote: »

but I don't know if points apply to learner permits anymore, i just think they put you off the road if you are caught speeding etc.

Most likely if you're caught driving alone on a permit & there is going to be some sort of reprimand it will be a summons & then the Judge will decide what to do with you whether that be a fine etc...

A lot of the times it does depend on whether you're known to the Gardai or not. If you're on PULSE you're more likely to be summoned rather than someone who is a first time offender. That's not always the case though. It depends on the Guard.

slimjimmc

Sabrielle wrote: »

but I don't know if points apply to learner permits anymore, i just think they put you off the road if you are caught speeding etc.

According to this penalty points do apply to learner permits and they stay there for the next 3 yrs. ; and no they don't put you off the road for speeding, etc unless you've accrued 12 points in any 3yrs

Jeanxx

slimjimmc wrote: »

According to this penalty points do apply to learner permits and they stay there for the next 3 yrs. ; and no they don't put you off the road for speeding, etc unless you've accrued 12 points in any 3yrs

You're right on that one.
Just found this: Driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence 3-6 points. That's hefty...:eek:

Sabrielle

would you have to be pulled over on the roadside for that?

Jeanxx

Sabrielle wrote: »

would you have to be pulled over on the roadside for that?

Yep, you'd have to get pulled over alright.

Sabrielle

so the fact that a smoking hot girly garda got a pic of me driving on my own today does mean that all i'm getting is 2 points and a fine and not a big drama with being put off the road and being done for driving on my own?

corktina

handheld speed camera? yes id say they would have to caution you and give you a ticket.

corktina

if they didnt stop you, id say you aint getting anything....

Sabrielle

the fine and 2 points doesn't bother me, i'm just extremely worried for being done for driving unaccompanied, it would just be my luck as I never usually do and i won't be doing it again after this fright

weepee

What do you guys think of the 'R' plate law in the North.

For one year after passing the driving section of your test, you are 'restricted' to

45 mph, and no motorways ?

Alanstrainor

weepee wrote: »

What do you guys think of the 'R' plate law in the North.

For one year after passing the driving section of your test, you are 'restricted' to

45 mph, and no motorways ?

We need to enforce current laws before even thinking of bringing in "R" plates. On paper they sound like a good idea, but if it was introduced tomorrow there would be zero enforcement.

weepee

So what do the Guards do all day then, I see them sitting on the layby regulary?

Jeanxx

weepee wrote: »

So what do the Guards do all day then, I see them sitting on the layby regulary?

This is usually the Traffic Corp & their duties are to look out for speeding, out of date documents, drink drivers etc... In some cars an ANPR system is fitted so they can see all the car owners details by the reg.

Learner drivers are usually stopped at check points and it's usually the case were it's up to the Guard's discretion whether or not they are going to reprimand a permit driver who's driving on their own.

weepee

Jeanxx wrote: »

This is usually the Traffic Corp & their duties are to look out for speeding, out of date documents, drink drivers etc... In some cars an ANPR system is fitted so they can see all the car owners details by the reg.

Learner drivers are usually stopped at check points and it's usually the case were it's up to the Guard's discretion whether or not they are going to reprimand a permit driver who's driving on their own.

Doesnt sound very efficient that.

Capt'n Midnight

jhegarty wrote: »

Has the RSA every produced any statics showing what the accident rate is for "L" drivers ?

I'm sure it's far higher than for drivers who have passed tests in other North West Europe countries.

Saying that Irish L drivers are as safe as those with full licenses is like saying they are nowhere near as safe as those in the UK etc.

RustyNut

Sabrielle wrote: »

the garda was holding a camera like thing up to her face

Thats a laser speed detector not a camera.