Respecting other peoples space

pete4130

I was out riding bikes tonight and what I can only guess was the "Boards Photowalk" came by Portobello Harbour. If it was I tihnk this deserves to be entioned in the main forum as well as the expeditions forum.

I know its a public space and all but you guys were standing in everyones way who were trying to ride and do what they do.
At one point someone was lying under one of the blocks/benches almost hiding waiting for someone to jump over him to get a shot, I only noticed at the last minute when I saw a lens bobbing up over the top of a ledge I was about to jump onto....seriously....not smart guys...firing flashes atsomeone jumping off something and lying underneath them, come on....common sense!?
It was pretty dangerous to be lying where people are more than likely going to land on top of you if something goes wrong, which is also more likely to happen when somene is being put of fwhat they are doing by a barrage of flashes from all direction and weaving through a crowd of onlookers with cameras.

It was disrespectful of peoples space, the equivelant is running onto a football pitch when people are playing a game and getting in their way. Or us as bike riders making sue we get in every shot you are taking and ruining the composition. You guys don't get in each others shots so show the same respect for people doing other activities.

As I said, I know its a public space and anyone can be there but there is common sense and within the skate and BMX community there is a sort of unwritten code of etiquette that we make space for each other.

It got to the point this evening that several people just left to go ride elsewhere because the place was so overun and becoming dangerous to the point that somene was going to get hurt. If that did happen, I wonder who'd get the blame for it?

Nobody has a problem with people taking photos and I was asked by several people if I would do something for a photo and I refused because it was like waving a red rag at a bull. I could see the whole group eagerly waiting for the go ahead to crowd around and start shooting.

I've been shooting photos as long as I've been riding bikes, and riding bikes is what got me into taking photos and as a photogrpaher I thought it was inherent to have some sort of respect for what you are shooting. Tonight was more like a melee of people with cameras.

There was no respect of other peoples space shown andto be honest it was shocking to see as another photographer and as a regular poster on here. I cringed, truly cringed when I saw the mob mentality of people wading in and taking over something that essentially isn't yours and ruining it for everyone. I'd be confident that nobody got as good photos as they could have if a bit more respect was shown and a bit more awareness of what was going on around them.

Fajitas!

That sounds like terrible behaviour.

It's incredibly important to be respectful if you're walking around with a camera. Act the dick, and you're making life hard for all of us. It leaves a sour taste in the publics mouths. And we'll be the first people to stand up to'em when they give out.

It is something I've noticed recently though. And tbh, I'm not as big a fan of photowalks anymore... Well, apart from the pub side of things.

Covey

Ditto re the photowalks. I don't think they are conducive to good photography anyway.

Simplicius

"High Horse Saddles for sale" Mount up with the Boards.ie infamous mob ruled indignant rage while this offer lasts!!

promised to be incredibly comfortable while used under virtual conditions.

get yours now while the rush is on.

JOKING ASIDE:

the OP is correct in his concerns in many respects but lets be honest here, what do you expect when you get a herd.........

I would venture to state that the people running the night walks need to rethink their group size and methodology to avoid this teething problem ( they cannot be blamed for such an admirable concept but like all good ideas it seems to need tweaking. I admire how they freely give of their time to give the others the chance to walk in comfort around the town).

You do learn things in groups once that size is moderate. Select max group sizes of 3-4 and send them in different directions and arrange to meet up in a pub later for a group comparison, jaysus the place is big enough and it doesn't take much imagination to pick a dozen routes.

just my two cents worth --

If a man calls you a horse- tell him feck off
if 3 people call you a horse it's time to go buy a saddle

humberklog

I hope I don't eat all my popcorn before "the other side" get in from the pub:pac:.

Fajitas!

Simplicius wrote: »

I admire how they freely give of their time to give the others the chance to walk in comfort around the town).

You do learn things in groups once that size is moderate. Select max group sizes of 3-4 and send them in different directions and arrange to meet up in a pub later for a group comparison, jaysus the place is big enough and it doesn't take much imagination to pick a dozen routes.

+1

I think the meet ups are a great idea (Hey - I started 'em on Boards.ie - They must be a FANTASTIC idea...) especially if you're new to photography and want to learn, want to see what a lens does if you're thinking of buying it, or just want to meet up with people with a similar interest. And fair play to Kyle & co for trying to get people out when they normally wouldn't.

But having respect for property/places/people is one of the most important aspects of it - and (I know you were joking Simp ) that's nothing to do with high horses.

Tallon

"This week on cornation street........."


I'd laugh so hard if this wasn't actually the lads and just a bus load of americans

AnCatDubh

Fajitas! wrote: »

+1

Hey - I started 'em on Boards.ie - They must be a FANTASTIC idea...

So I guess we'll just blame Al then :P

Right that's sorted.

Tactical

This might sound a bit obvious, but was the area in question specifically designated for bike riding or is it a pedestrian area?

I guess I'm sitting back and looking at both sides of the situation. If the area is specifically for bike riding etc then I could see how a large (how large a group is a large group anyways?) group of people could interrupt the activity, but if the area is not specifically designated then I honestly fail to see a problem. What would have been the reaction if a bus load of tourists or an OAP evening out had turned up?

Fajitas!

Tactical wrote: »

I guess I'm sitting back and looking at both sides of the situation. If the area is specifically for bike riding etc then I could see how a large (how large a group is a large group anyways?) group of people could interrupt the activity, but if the area is not specifically designated then I honestly fail to see a problem. What would have been the reaction if a bus load of tourists or an OAP evening out had turned up?

The complaint would be the same, I'd think.

Tactical

So am I the only one thinking "storm in a teacup" because some people were in a particular public area and that even if an activity by another group of people ws interrupted that both groups had a right to be there?

Perhaps if the OP had had a chat with their buddies and the 'togs a mtual agreement could have been reached where a few guys on bikes could have performed for a few minutes and the 'togs move on having gotten their shots and everyone would have been happy?

kjt

Hey guys,
(runs into a cave and hides for a few weeks till this blows over)

Sorry to hear about all this shnizzle! (I've already pm'ed Pete)
I completely agree with Pete and what everybody else has said above. When you're out shooting you need to be respectful and have a bit of common courtesy!! I had no idea about this tonight till I clicked onto Boards. Maybe a few obvious points need to be spoken about before each walk (common sense I would have thought) but clearly some things need to be said! Numbers need to be limited, this is only the second walk I’ve organised and there were 20+ people at it.

Personally, I think photowalks are a brilliant idea, they get you out of the house, out with other like minded people, you meet new people, learn new things etc etc Over the past week I’ve had a few different ideas on how to run a new type of photowalk/challenge. So I think they may combat a bit of the problem that a herd of tripods brings.

Again, apologies about what happened tonight!!
Kyle

(Ps I'm all ears to hearing ideas to help improve photowalks AND help from anything like this happening again!!)

kjt

Tactical wrote: »

So am I the only one thinking "storm in a teacup" because some people were in a particular public area and that even if an activity by another group of people ws interrupted that both groups had a right to be there?

Perhaps if the OP had had a chat with their buddies and the 'togs a mtual agreement could have been reached where a few guys on bikes could have performed for a few minutes and the 'togs move on having gotten their shots and everyone would have been happy?

I can see your point Tactical, (I don't think it's a desiginated area) but they where there first. Thus in my view they'd have every right to nicely ask me/a group of photographers to move away. Of course it's then up to me to be a nice guy and move, or be an a$$ and blabber on at how it's a public area, I have every right blah blah. If I was one of the said photographers in the wrong tonight and a biker came over asking me to move on, I wouldn't even questions them, I'd move on. Simple as!


I think it was all just a big misunderstanding with some of the photographers that caused this. A lack of communication from both sides and also a lack of common sense...

TelePaul

Public place tbh. Bit of common sense would've been nice though.

Tactical

Sounds like a potentially good opportunity was lost because of a lack of communication.

Wouldn't it be great if the bike guys could get together with the 'togs and organise a display / shoot just to show no hard feelings for what seems to be a misunderstanding?

pete4130

Tactical wrote: »

So am I the only one thinking "storm in a teacup" because some people were in a particular public area and that even if an activity by another group of people ws interrupted that both groups had a right to be there?

Perhaps if the OP had had a chat with their buddies and the 'togs a mtual agreement could have been reached where a few guys on bikes could have performed for a few minutes and the 'togs move on having gotten their shots and everyone would have been happy?

I've been in contact with KJT and there are no hard feeling at all. We both realise it was a large group of people and somethign like that is hard to manage and organise. I'm not starting a tit for tat on who's right. I've already acknowledged the area is a public area and have stated in another thread that the area isn't specifically meant for riding bikes or skatebaording, but thats what it is used for the past 3 years whether its meant for it or not. Some common sense and respect for what others are doing was what my original post was about, not about who has more right to be at one particular place.

My point is some people were blatantly standing in the way of what was going on, where people were going to be landing, lying underneath where people would be doing things with no regard to anyones welfare or safety.
What would have happened if something wetn wrong and my bike crashed into the guy lying on the ground and the bike knocked a few of his teeth out, broke his jaw and knocked his 2 flashes into the water. I personally wouldn't want that to happen as the spot would be a bust for everyone, someone would be down a few teeth and a broken jaw with a trip to the hospital and me probably paying for his medical fees and new flashes because they didn't have the common sense not to be there?

Common sense was the point of the thread so if replies can be based around that and not who's right or wrong in this situation, I'd appreciate that.


If it was agroup of tourists, and NOT photographers you'd expect something like that to happen.

The idea of an organsied display and shoot is not realistic to be honest, no disrespect intended. People who skate and ride bikes do it for themselves, not to perform for others and the majority wouldn't be into the idea unless it was for a specific purpose such as an advert, an article or a feature. I actually shoot for an internantionally published BMX magazine called DIG BMX Magazine and asking to take peoples photos is not that easy. If someone is going to risk their hurting themselves doing something that will look good, it probably has a high risk attached to it and won't want to do this for some Joe Bloggs on the street.

I've actually invited people on Boards to come to a trails event before which worked out perfectly as people were aware of the situation and did not get in the way and it worked out great. Thonda, Dazftw and one or two others showed up and everyone had a great day.

Anyway, I've said what I had to say and I hope I've made my point clear.

Buzz Lightyear

Hi Pete

I actully approached you initially and asked you if you or any of your mates would be interested in a tit for tat. If I'm right you pointed out one of your mates who you said might be interested in it, you weren't and you and I left it at that. I did ask your mate who said that he didn't mind me taking shots but that he was just gonna cycle and do his stuff. I did point out to both you and him what I intended - lie in the ground beside the stand and capture a cyclist over head.

At no point did I mean to intrude or take over your space. I am well aware of any risks that I was putting myself under. The stand in particular had enough height to protect me from a direct hit unless the cyclist fell off in which case I'd probably get hurt.

I'm sorry if you felt that I was getting in the way. Once again this was not my intention. We did leave after a short time when your mates did not want to co-operate. At no stage was I told that your mates felt was dangerous. Had this been said, I would have removed myself from your space. We did as a group come over and try and get in on the action with our cameras but we never intended to drive your mates away.

I'd like to meet again on a more favorable terms and do some shooting similar to what you achieved with Thonda & co. I was hoping to have gotten an urban feel to that type of biking tonight, however it was not to be.

Please express my apologies to your mates.

Philip

qwertz

OP and everybody else that was affected, would it not have been easier to just talk to the photographers that in your opinion caused an obstruction and/or put themselves and others into a potentially dangerous position?

smelltheglove

qwertz wrote: »

OP and everybody else that was affected, would it not have been easier to just talk to the photographers that in your opinion caused an obstruction and/or put themselves and others into a potentially dangerous position?

I think that what he is trying to get across is the fact that there should be no need to talk to a photographer to explain the intrusion.

qwertz

If we were living in a perfect world

smelltheglove wrote: »

I think that what he is trying to get across is the fact that there should be no need to talk to a photographer to explain the intrusion.

AnimalRights

Anyone fancy laying under my car as I do a handbrake in my flats later tonight?
You'd get a great angle and all that...

;>

sineadw

I was on the sidelines. Pete, in all fairness, you knew enough of us there to just say... I know (and I think you do too) that it would never have been an issue if you had.

Buzz Lightyear

AnimalRights wrote: »

Anyone fancy laying under my car as I do a handbrake in my flats later tonight?
You'd get a great angle and all that...

;>

Bummer. Just arrived home to Trim :mad: I would have lovin to have given it a lash.

BTW just how high of the ground is your car ..... wouldn't like any accidents to happen if it were too low

Fajitas!

Aye, but it can be hard to tell people you don't know to head off, never mind people you do know.

Lol, I can imagine some parallel universe where Pete did tell you all to head off, and came home to find a post on photographers being told to move away in a public area... :pac:

sineadw

Fajitas! wrote: »

Aye, but it can be hard to tell people you don't know to head off, never mind people you do know.

Lol, I can imagine some parallel universe where Pete did tell you all to head off, and came home to find a post on photographers being told to move away in a public area... :pac:

Hah! You obviously haven't heard the Luas stories from the night then

Maybe we could call it a lesson learned on both sides then? A bit more communication needed maybe?

Buzz Lightyear

Al don't start causing trouble over here as well - it's hard to win a battle with the edumecated

I fairness not everybody has confidence to approach people and air their opinion, this is Ireland not New York

@sineadw - yep - lessons learned on this side. Get a friendly volunteer like AR instead

Fajitas!

I'd find NY-er's more approachable than a lot of Irish *shrugs shoulders*

So... what DID happen on the Luas?

qwertz

What happened on the LUAS stays on the LUAS!

Fajitas!

We'll just have to speculate then.

I heard it involved dogging.

Buzz Lightyear

Fajitas! wrote: »

I heard it involved dogging.

I wasn't there so I've no comment to make on the behalf of others, however here's a present for you ...#

Fajitas!

I think Tommie was looking for that...

Buzz Lightyear

Fajitas! wrote: »

I think Tommie was looking for that...

I thought this one was a two handed jobbie ....

Fajitas!

Boards.ie

Now ye're dogging spanking.

Slidinginfinity

Buzz Lightyear wrote: »

I thought this one was a two handed jobbie ....

Fajitas! wrote: »

Boards.ie

Now ye're dogging spanking.

I think this thread has taken a decidedly strange turn in the conversation.:D:eek:

Buzz Lightyear

Slidinginfinity wrote: »

I think this thread has taken a decidedly strange turn in the conversation.:D:eek:

'The more I see hear the less I want to know'

pete4130

sineadw wrote: »

I was on the sidelines. Pete, in all fairness, you knew enough of us there to just say... I know (and I think you do too) that it would never have been an issue if you had.

I'm not trying to be arguementative or pedantic. It was getting dark/twilight at that point and 30 odd people standing around I'm not going to be looking at their faces with cameras being shoved out in front of me, flashes going off and dodging people all while trying to ride a bike....I'd say I know to recognise (counts on fingers...1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) nine people in total from boards.ie that would stand out in a crowd like that if I took the time out to look. I was focused on trying to avoid everyone and not fall and/or hurt myself or anyone else. If I seemingly did know so many people there, then none of them came up to me asking to take some photos or where was good/safe to stand to take photos etc...

I'm not looking to go tit for tat in this thread. I'm still just trying to point out the lack of common sense shown on the night. If this thread makes people think on the next photo walk when they encounter a situation or group of people and consider their actions, then my boldness in writing what might seem a bitchy and illicit thread was worth it (I try not to be a serial trouble maker on here and post constructive posts most of the time).

I understand the position I'm coming from might be lost on some people. I'm guessing users like Thonda and Dazftw (sorry for using names) might have a better understanding of where I'm coming from due to their interests in riding bikes/skating and how off putting and dangerous it can for everyone involved with randomers standing right where they shouldn't be because it affords them the best view. It's not my position to tell people where they can and can't go in a public space.

Again my point isn't to argue or ruffle feathers, I'm pointing out there was a lack of common sense shown. My common sense told me to leave because it was too crowded, with people trying to get too close to something they couldn't anticipate or understand the consequences of what could happen, if something did go wrong or if they did get in the way. I certainly don't want to end up looking like this again or anyone else if they did get in the way and there was a collision.....

Buzz Lightyear

Pete,

Point taken, lesson learnt - and oooh that hurts.

However information is a two way thing, and yes it depends on the crowd, but would you do that eejit who got the danger spot (without knowing it) a favour and let him know he's in a bad spot if that should ever happen again. Then every body can be happy and have a good time

Just one note: although you might not think that it's your right to tell people where they can and can't go in a public space, common sense must and should prevail on both sides. If you see something wrong - say it. For a group like the other night a lot of people were gathering around to take shots. A simple - 'feel free to take shots (if thats what you wanted) but please give us the space to perform and not kill you' would have done wonders. Don't forget the educated have the experience - you're photo tells me your educated !

dazftw

Yeah, it wasn't his place to tell people to move but he still got a point about just looking out and paying attention to whats going on around you.. were all photographers we should do that naturally! I know I do!

At our skatepark we have little kids who come with there parents who dont skateboard ride bikes or anything like that but they do run around the skatepark playing tig and what have you and ill be the 1st to say it to the parents "hey you wanna watch the kids incase theres a collison" (and bring them to the ****ing playground 50 metres away ffs:rolleyes:)

It all comes back to common sense just not wanting anyone to get hurt and as pete said respecting peoples space whether it be public or private..

Now lets all light a fire and sing kumbaya :pac:

Buzz Lightyear

kumbaya my lord kumbaya ...........