amount of ammo

bruce264

Just a quick question,i have 2 shotguns, have to fill out 2 licences, would like to be able to keep 1000 rounds as do clay shooting,is the maximum your allowed to keep per licence or in total? Say 1000 rounds on each licence = 2000 or would it 500 on each = 1000?

cavan shooter

I have put 500 on one and 250 on one and, 250 on the other on the other keeping it within the proposed figure mentioned in the guidelines. My ammo safe will store 1000 no probs and I only buy 1000 at a time.

i always went on the assumption that it was the amount in your possession in any one time and not per gun. Its not too clear, however some lads are trying for alot more

I have had lads ask me about getting 2000-3000 with one fella say he was looking to getting 5000, my opinion best of luck with that one

foxshooter243

cavan shooter wrote: »

I have put 500 on one and 250 on one and, 250 on the other on the other keeping it within the proposed figure mentioned in the guidelines. My ammo safe will store 1000 no probs and I only buy 1000 at a time.

i always went on the assumption that it was the amount in your possession in any one time and not per gun. Its not too clear, however some lads are trying for alot more

I have had lads ask me about getting 2000-3000 with one fella say he was looking to getting 5000, my opinion best of luck with that one

Lads , common sense has to prevail on this issue, how does anyone need 5000 shells is beyond me unless he thinks hes gonna be dropped off by chinook into helmand province and left for a week on his own:rolleyes:

I shoot clays and game and 5-600 would me more than enough to keep me clayshooting or pigeon over barley, just remember that your FO will be just as interested where you propose to store your ammo as well as your guns, 1000 shells is designed as a facility for serious clay shooters and should only be asked for if you are in that category, my opinion only:)

bruce264

Cheers guys, just wasnt sure if it was per license or in total, i can easily get through 500 in a day when practicing clay at home, so be looking to have atleast 1000 as is cheaper to buy this amount than 500 a time

cavan shooter

Fox shooter there are plenty of lads out there that will always try extract the urine. If the garda said 1000 cartridges they will try for 10,000.

foxshooter243

cavan shooter wrote: »

Fox shooter there are plenty of lads out there that will always try extract the urine. If the garda said 1000 cartridges they will try for 10,000.

So true CS , I remember when the EFP was introduced and lads heard you could get 500 on it, there was lads looking for it that hadnt fired a cartridge in ten years

It wasn't me!

Don't know about clays, but certainly other disciplines do require the facility to have five or ten thousand rounds.

Jonty

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Don't know about clays, but certainly other disciplines do require the facility to have five or ten thousand rounds.

What kind of disciplines, Fire and Manouver, Offensive and Defensive barrages???:D

It wasn't me!

Jonty wrote: »

What kind of disciplines, Fire and Manouver, Offensive and Defensive barrages???:D

The ISSF rifle and pistol stuff, certainly. At a high level, you're talking about batch-tested ammunition from the factories to be competitive, and the minimum purchase is usually 10,000 rounds. I personally have 5,000 for a single shot smallbore target rifle. Serious pistol shooters will go through a few thousand rounds a week.

Sparks

Not to mention that air pellets are sold in tins of 500, and the boxes of tins hold 5000 pellets in total. So if you buy sized pellets, you're looking at needing 10,000 on your licence.

(Air rifle pellets are only nominally 4.5mm in calibre - the tins are marked with the real calibre, usually one of 4.48,4.49,4.50,4.51,4.52 - and some sizes suit some rifles better than others. It's not as dramatic as batch testing, but it's still very noticable and you can pick up two to three points in an air rifle match that way).

foxshooter243

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Don't know about clays, but certainly other disciplines do require the facility to have five or ten thousand rounds.

Agreed there IWM, but the OP was talking shotgun shells:)

Sparks

Even with shotgun shells fox, thousands isn't unheard of. Ask Philip Murphy or Derek Burnett how many shells they use on a training session...

gunhappy_ie

It wasn't me! wrote: »

The ISSF rifle and pistol stuff, certainly. At a high level, you're talking about batch-tested ammunition from the factories to be competitive, and the minimum purchase is usually 10,000 rounds. I personally have 5,000 for a single shot smallbore target rifle. Serious pistol shooters will go through a few thousand rounds a week.

agreed.. all my firearms are semi autos so they eat lead... batch testing is 1 concern of mine and with this forthcomming import ban ill be forced to pay the extortionate rates for ammo in ireland. so ive put a considable sum on my application so as i will be driving to the north or the UK to collect batches. If your licence only says 100 rds ... it really doesnt make the trip worth while.

whats the worst that your station will do ... say no ? and make you re apply or explain your reason. provided youve the proper storage in place whats the problem ?

foxshooter243

Sparks wrote: »

Even with shotgun shells fox, thousands isn't unheard of. Ask Philip Murphy or Derek Burnett how many shells they use on a training session...

Ive did a hell of a lot of clayshooting myself sparks, and 1000 shells is a lot of shooting, even for practise. I would have used 250 for a practise session , and I was shooting at county and national level. If every shotgunner starts to look for the maximum "just because they can" then it
will draw unwanted attention, after all they have to be properly stored.

gunhappy_ie

What is the max that can be held ?

It wasn't me!

foxshooter243 wrote: »

Ive did a hell of a lot of clayshooting myself sparks, and 1000 shells is a lot of shooting, even for practise. I would have used 250 for a practise session , and I was shooting at county and national level. If every shotgunner starts to look for the maximum "just because they can" then it
will draw unwanted attention, after all they have to be properly stored.

Aye, 250 a training session, but if you train four or five times a week, and don't have a convenient dealership to make weekly trips, a few thousand starts to look pretty reasonable.

foxshooter243

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Aye, 250 a training session, but if you train four or five times a week, and don't have a convenient dealership to make weekly trips, a few thousand starts to look pretty reasonable.

training 5 times a week is 300 euro for shells :eek: without firing a shot in competition or paying for your clays which would be approx another 200 euro-there isnt many training like that unless they are sponsored, and when you consider that the majority of clay shoots have a dealer on hand then why the need to stockpile, I shot for years with 500 on my permit and would have been within my limit most of the time.

IDon'tKnow!

I was going to put down 1000 of .22 and 500 for shotgun. Asked about increase last year and was rushed out of the station by the FO. So don't know if the super will sign off on the max limits.

freddieot

GH, you know I'm in the same boat as you but needing a high allowance in order to be able to drive to NI to get ammo is probably not the best reason to put on the form.

My reading of the new controls is that you must import ammo through the DOJ channels just as you will have to do with a firearm.

True - the importation part of the new legislation seems to be stalled at the moment but still might not be the best reason to quote for needing a higher limit.

Did I read somewhere that the general consensus following some meetings of the FCP and the powers that be was that members of target clubs would not raise too many eyebrows asking for about 1,000, provided they could prove a need etc. (ie: actually turning up regularly for practice and competitions rather than just paying annual memberrship fees). The fact that there is a box on the form asking how mush ammo is required is a step in the right direction towards this position IMO.

cavan shooter

At what point do you stop being a clay shooter who need susfficient shells to practice and compete and then go into the area of a RFD (considering the Thousands some people are looking for.

Most people had 100 shells on their licence we now have the opportunity to get 750 -1000 (depending on your category) and still we have people taking about 3,000, 5,000 up to 10,000.

Half the lads I'm taking to that want that many shells wouldnt use them in a year and I am sorry but if lads need that much practice and still havent reached the irish teams........son take up Golf:D

Cant wait to see the storage set up though....

Sparks

Thing is Cavan, what you're doing there is walking (at a brisk pace) the regulatory function of the DoJ/Gardai past the "public safety" point, past the "competency assurance" point and then shoving them face-first into the twin cowpats of "sports administration" and "athlete evaluation".

And the DoJ and Gardai have already publicly said that that's not their job.

Look, if a shooter has a reason for that much on his ammunition allowance, and has the storage to make the super happy, then that's it. That's all there is to it. It can't be any other way until the Department of Justice Firearms Section merges with the Irish Sports Council and the various NGBs.

And I think we all know what we think of large monolithic uber-governing-bodies

rrpc

To be fair, Cavan Shooter is right in at least one respect: If people really think they need that many thousands of rounds, the ammo dealer registration fee is €75

Sparks

Sure it is rrpc; but the DoJ have already said rather explicitly that they want that practice (of becoming a dealer to get ammo for yourself rather than as a commercial entity) to cease. Immediately. Isn't there specific legislation against it already?

foxshooter243

Im a member of a fairly large gun club in Donegal, we have a 6 acre clay target site, part of which I own...out of one hundred members we used to have about 20 serious clay shooters..when I say about it has to be remembered that the recession has had an effect on the sport up here in that lads dont have the same cash in their pockets to spend on the sport.

Out of those twenty serious clay shooters not one of them bought clays by the thousands, a couple of slabs at a time was plenty-500. clays were available for sale at any clay shoot you went to. In any case very few had more than 100 on their licence and dealers dont just hand out ammo willy nilly.If anyone reckons they need to have 2 ,3 or 5 thousand shells about them then im lost , I dont know how we managed for years and we lashed some amount of shells down the tubes.

There is a great case for these types of amounts for small bore rifle competition when batch testing is taken into account and its these type of gains we really want to see happening as they make real sense in shooting.

Sparks

Fox, define "serious" there, would you?

foxshooter243

Sparks wrote: »

Fox, define "serious" there, would you?

"serious"-clay shooters in that they would be shooting or practising more than once per week , amongst that group we have three lads on the irish team for a clay discipline who represented Ireland abroad. Eight of that group were members of the 12 man Donegal sporting team , myself included, this group used a lot of ammo.

Sparks

Fox, do you mean DTL shooting or OT?

foxshooter243

Sparks wrote: »

Fox, do you mean DTL shooting or OT?

Skeet and sporting would have been the main disciplines..

Sparks

That's not the height of serious shotgun shooting in Ireland though fox. The OT lads would be going through 500 a week at home and 2000 a week when at training camps abroad.

foxshooter243

Sparks wrote: »

That's not the height of serious shotgun shooting in Ireland though fox. The OT lads would be going through 500 a week at home and 2000 a week when at training camps abroad.

yeah but thats the tip of the iceberg there sparks, my concern is that if too many lads who dont need big allowances are looking for them , would there be a chance its spoiled for those who do further down the line, if you get me. Im not against big ammo allowances , dont get me wrong but id rather see sensible allowances alongside benefits such as 10 k allowances for target shooters who buy by batch and reloading introduced for centrefire rifles, for long range shooting...these are more tangible benefits across the board rather than the DOJ thinking "sure we let them have 1000 shotgun shells and they still want to reload, ye cant satisfy them"

Sparks

That makes no sense fox. The DoJ and Gardai have already said that their job is not to run the sport. So if Person X comes up and says "I need 10,000 shells on my ammunition allowance because I shoot 1,000 a week in training", and he has the necessary storage and so forth, then that's all there is to it.

And for the jokers looking to take the mickey, there's the point that lying on your application form is now a criminal offence under Section 3(13)(a) of the Firearms Act, so let the Gardai take care of them.

3(13)(a) wrote:

(13) A person who—
(a) knowingly gives false or misleading information to an issuing person in relation to an application for a firearm certificate or for its renewal,
[...]
is guilty of an offence and liable—
(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €2,500 or imprisonment or a term not exceeding 6 months or both, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €20,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.