Arsenal V Celtic - 2nd leg - Emirates

WillieCocker

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If Celtic had scored first, it might have gone differently. That penalty last night completely killed off the tie.

If Celtic had have signed Ronaldo in the summmer.......
Blah blah blah.
It took them 90mins to have a shot on goal.

Mitch Connor

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Up until that point Celtic did nothing to even suggest they were going to threaten. They were spineless. You are the only person I have seen to even suggest that the penalty may have cost Celtic the tie.

Nah, their manager said it last night after the game

The penalty killed off the tie, that, to me, is certain.

I still reckon Arsenal would have gone through, and over the course of the two legs they deserve to have gone through. However, you don't know what would have happened last night if Eduardo had been booked for diving instead of getting a penalty. Celtic might have gone up the other end and got lucky with a strike. If they had scored first, it would have been a very different game imo. Whether they'd have got that first goal is another matter, but the cheated for penalty destroyed any slim chances they may have had, imo.

Mitch Connor

WillieCocker wrote: »

If Celtic had have signed Ronaldo in the summmer.......
Blah blah blah.

Yeah, cause that is the same thing....

Pal

Arsenal FC smells of gick this morning.

There is a simple reason for that.
Its called dishonesty.
One of their employees cheated and his boss done hypocrisy proud.

The rest of the stuff getting posted here like Celtic would have lost anyways or Stevie Gerrard dived first is irrelevant nonsense.

NukaCola

Pal wrote: »

Arsenal FC smells of gick this morning.

There is a simple reason for that.
Its called dishonesty.
One of their employees cheated and his boss done hypocrisy proud.

The rest of the stuff getting posted here like Celtic would have lost anyways or Stevie Gerrard dived first is irrelevant nonsense.

Exactly right. This is what it boils down to.

If this was a chelsea/Liverpool/Man game thread and it was drogba/rooney/gerard that cheated etc etc there would be the same debate. FIFA need to sort it now, it should have been sorted years ago.

greendom

Pal wrote: »

Arsenal FC smells of gick this morning.

There is a simple reason for that.
Its called dishonesty.
One of their employees cheated and his boss done hypocrisy proud.

The rest of the stuff getting posted here like Celtic would have lost anyways or Stevie Gerrard dived first is irrelevant nonsense.

Oh come off the high ground and take a closer look. This is pure nonsense. Cheating goes on in every single game and probably every single minute. Whether it's a player gaining 5 yards when taking a throw-in or a free-kick; a defender holding onto a player's shirt out of the ref's sight; a wall being less than 10 yards from the ball. All the way up to fouling and diving. diving is probably the most effective form of cheating, but players are constantly trying to get away with stuff all over the pitch. If you really feel like that you should try some other sport.

Indie18

This thread is just going in circles now,I'm and Arsenal fan and I was dissapointed with the dive myself but what's really annoying are all the people who are so quick to hang Eduardo for this when I'm sure players off there own teams have done this before. It was a dive get over it, the way people are going on about it you would swear Eduardo was the only player to ever take a dive.

S**t happens in football so move on.

lisbon_lions

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Up until that point Celtic did nothing to even suggest they were going to threaten. They were spineless. You are the only person I have seen to even suggest that the penalty may have cost Celtic the tie.

:rolleyes: Arsenal were a class apart, but to label Celtic 'spineless'? Pathetic.

greendom

Pal wrote: »

touched a nerve ?

Have I ?

LuckyLloyd

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

He should but won't.

What kind of idiots run football these days? How hard is it to ban players who dive, or use goal line technology? Really doesn't make any sense.

This.

Wreck

Pal wrote: »

Arsenal FC smells of gick this morning.

There is a simple reason for that.
Its called dishonesty.
One of their employees cheated and his boss done hypocrisy proud.

Every football club is exactly the same, I can't remember anyone ever condemning one of their own players for diving. Wenger has no wish to destroy the morale and confidence of one of his players by throwing him to the baying crowds. It is not this job to stop this, his job is to win matches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fk0frXZRWk

Mitch Connor

Wreck wrote: »

Every football club is exactly the same, I can't remember anyone ever condemning one of their own players for diving. Wenger has no wish to destroy the morale and confidence of one of his players by throwing him to the baying crowds. It is not this job to stop this, his job is to win matches.

agreed. It would be wrong of wenger to publically punish his players for this. I have no doubt he will have a word with Eduardo about it, but he will do nothing publically.

Mossy Monk

lisbon_lions wrote: »

:rolleyes: Arsenal were a class apart, but to label Celtic 'spineless'? Pathetic.

Attacking the poster. Nice. You will obviously see it differently. I saw a team who were ****e at home and worse away.

WillieCocker

PMSL at that clip.
At least DuDu can make it seem in the same timeline.:D

Interyurauldone

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Up until that point Celtic did nothing to even suggest they were going to threaten. They were spineless. You are the only person I have seen to even suggest that the penalty may have cost Celtic the tie.

Was at the game last night great atmosphere in the celtic end non stop singing and great banter. The Arsenal fans we met before the game were pretty good craic as well to be fair.

Eduardo's dive was right in front of us and it was pretty blatant. But what made it worse was the cheeky grin he had on his face when being congratulated by his team mates. It was a real pity for 2 reasons;

1) He's a great player who doesn't need to tarnish his name with those antics.

2) at nil-nil you just never know.

Celtic had created openings before that but unfortunately they were far and few between. If Celtic had got a break like Mcdonald staying onside for that goal and went in 1-0 up at half time then it's a match, so to say the penalty had no baring on the game is wrong it definitely did.

Now before all the Arsenal fans start seizing up and fraughting at the mouth! I'm not saying Arsenal didn't deserve to go through they defininetly had the class and quality you would associate with the attractiveness of the premiership and overall are very worthy of their win.

Unfortunately for Celtic 2 breaks went against them early in both games that orchestrated their downfall.

On our way out of the ground last night we started talking about diving and what UEFA could do to solve this when one Arsenal fan reminded us of the Scottish incident a few years ago;

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=464975&cc=5739

But here's the funny bit check out who the culprit is playing with now!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saulius_Mikoliunas

Pretty funny!

Note: All the best to Arsenal in this years champions league and premiership they are a great team that play a very good style off football, fingers crossed their squad numbers won't fall short later in the season. What makes Arsenal's case so great is that Wenger has done it without the £20m signings you would associate with the other big name clubs I know he has the attractiveness of London and premiership football to help him get top footballers in to Arsenal but his still done some job on that club. Best of Luck

LuckyLloyd

thorbarry wrote: »

Good stuff from the arseblogger



http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog

This thread is full of bad logic, and the above piece is an excellent example of it. Interesting that he brings up the Rooney dive in Old Trafford during the game that ended Arsenal's record unbeaten stretch.

I remember watching that game, and the dive and subsequent penalty was the key moment. Old Trafford went nuts, Utd started playing with confidence, Arsenal's heads went down. Yet, after the game, Utd fans were lining up to tell us that it didn't really matter because they won 2 - 0 anyway. 'Ah shur, take the penalty away and we win 1 - 0 anyway!!'

No, no, no, no, no, no.

The opening goal is always ****ing crucial. Celtic's task was extremely difficult as it was, but then they go a goal down and they have a veritable Mount Everest to climb. Any lingering belief disappears, while for Arsenal any lingering doubts are gone. The game thereafter and any subsequent goals that Arsenal scored are linked to the unfair penalty decision. Arguing that they aren't closely related, and the final result is proof that the penalty was ultimately irrelevant is an argument that is weak as water.

Celtic didn't look great over the two legs, and the better side went through. But the margin of victory isn't really a fair reflection of the gap between the two teams. Celtic conceded five goals in 180 minutes of football. The first three of those goals were extremely unfortunate, and the last two came after the tie was finished as a contest. They can justifiably claim to be hard done by.

As pointed out by greendorm upthread, Arsenal have looked very good in four games against poor opposition (i.e. opposition that would be in an EPL relegation battle on the basis of current form). Saturday will be a much better indicator of how different things actually are relative to last season.

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Saturday will be a much better indicator of how different things actually are relative to last season.

If United play well, which we haven't really done so far this season.

lisbon_lions

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Attacking the poster. Nice. You will obviously see it differently. I saw a team who were ****e at home and worse away.

Your choice of words to label a team that actually tried to take on the opposition and not 11 man defend - in both ties - just highlights the flaws in your observation.

Eirebear

lisbon_lions wrote: »

Your choice of words to label a team that actually tried to take on the opposition and not 11 man defend - in both ties - just highlights the flaws in your observation.

Up untill Donati's goal last night (a belter by the way) Celtic hadnt managed a shot on target.
So if they did indeed "try to take the opposition on" i would suggest ****e was a fairly apt choice of words.

Dont get me wrong, the penalty quite obviously killed the game off completely and took the wind out of Celtic, but Celtic themselves offered nothing from what i saw last night unfortunately.

lisbon_lions

Eirebear wrote: »

So if they did indeed "try to take the opposition on" i would suggest ****e was a fairly apt choice of words.

Im referring to 'spineless' used on the previous page.

Strong words by Gordon Smith this morning:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/8223917.stm

Indie18

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As pointed out by greendorm upthread, Arsenal have looked very good in four games against poor opposition (i.e. opposition that would be in an EPL relegation battle on the basis of current form). Saturday will be a much better indicator of how different things actually are relative to last season.

Not quite true considering Arsenal only lost one game against the top 3 in the league last season.

Mossy Monk

lisbon_lions wrote: »

Strong words by Gordon Smith this morning:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/8223917.stm

Until he can show there is no diving in Scottish Football then Gordon Smith should stop embarrassing himself.

Mr Alan

calling for a ban is idiotic tbh.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

calling for a ban is idiotic tbh.

agreed. if the rules are there, enforce them. But they don;t seem to be so I would be against any retrospective ban of Eduardo.

Eirebear

lisbon_lions wrote: »

Im referring to 'spineless' used on the previous page.

Strong words by Gordon Smith this morning:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/8223917.stm

Fair enough, spineless is probably the wrong choice of words, outclassed is more accurate.

Smith should keep his mouth shut to be honest imo, its got nothing to do with him.

Evil_Clown

I was disappointed with eduardo last night but the chairman of the SFa and others have gone way over the top on him.
This thread needs to be turned into a 'Should FIFA introduce retrospective bans for players found guilty of diving' that is the real issue here, trying to put an end to diving rather than attacking a single player when plenty are guilty of the same offence.

Quazzie

The irony of some United fans branding Eduardo a diver is ridiculous considering Ronaldo plyed is trade with cheating and diving.

Celtic fans have a right to be agrieved, but I think its just a smokescreen for the fact that over two legs they were dire and are lucky to escape the Champions league at this stage before their good name in the competition is dragged even further into the mud by the inevitable drubbings they would receive in the group games.

Interyurauldone

Mitch Connor wrote: »

agreed. if the rules are there, enforce them. But they don;t seem to be so I would be against any retrospective ban of Eduardo.

I think the rules are there and more importantly UEFA have already set a precedent in relation to diving as in the link from my o.p.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=464975&cc=5739

Hence the 2 game ban calls by donati and Smith.

The issue is where do UEFA draw the line? How do they categorise a dive from a genuine slip or fall? Its not possible to review every case of so called diving they would need a 1000 man committee. We have all seen the footballer go down clutching his knee in agony only to be stretchered off but to bounce off his death bed and run back out onto the pitch! Its pretty frustrating for all concerned!!

Thats why Uefa take these type cases on a high profile basis.

So for me the question is do Uefa act? For the sake of the game and to help curb the diving I hope they do. But I doubt they will.

I dont think Arsenal fans would be too worried if they did. Eduardo would only miss the first 2 games of the league format which going on last nights performance wouldn't hinder them too much!

patmac

Quazzie wrote: »

The irony of some United fans branding Eduardo a diver is ridiculous considering Ronaldo plyed is trade with cheating and diving.

Celtic fans have a right to be agrieved, but I think its just a smokescreen for the fact that over two legs they were dire and are lucky to escape the Champions league at this stage before their good name in the competition is dragged even further into the mud by the inevitable drubbings they would receive in the group games.

As a United fan I agree about Ronaldo, but Eduardo is still a cheat as are all the divers in the game. Eduardo should get a 2 match ban and every other diver a well, be he Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea or Accrington Stanley it doesn't matter he won't do it again if there is a ban hanging over his head he and all the other cheats would think twice about it.
Lol at Wenger saying he went out of the way to avoid injury, better if kept to his usual 'I didn't see it line' than say anything at all.
As for the game Arsenal got the breaks but were still by far the better team. As for the 'Battle of Britain' only 1 Englishman and 3 Scots with more Frenchmen than Brits, says it all about the modern game.
Come on UEFA show some balls retrospective banning now.

greendom

patmac wrote: »

.
Come on UEFA show some balls retrospective banning now.

Easy for you to say now Ronaldo has left; but | reckon Real Madrid will be asking for their money back as he won't be able to play for a couple years

yahoo_moe

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The opening goal is always ****ing crucial.

I generally agree with your post there Lloyd, but the penalty wasn't the opening goal in the tie. Nor were Celtic looking particularly likely to score at that point, which was part-way through the second half of the tie. I'm not in any way defending Eduardo (you can see that from my previous posts in this thread) and I'm not going to go into Utd v Arsenal v 'Pool stuff, but that goal last night was less crucial than the first goal in a 90-minute game.

Celtic conceded five goals in 180 minutes of football. The first three of those goals were extremely unfortunate

Also, this keeps getting mentioned - and while goals 1 and 3 were unlucky, I don't see the issue with goal 2. Good play, a dangerous ball across with an attacker in behind Caldwell who then has to play it. The good ball put him in trouble, as with plenty of OGs we've all seen before (e.g. Djourou against Chelsea last year). Side issue in a way but still

Chardee MacDennis

you know whats the most annoying thing about Eduardo's dive - the way BBC keep saying "alleged dive".

premierstone

patmac wrote: »

As for the 'Battle of Britain' only 1 Englishman and 3 Scots with more Frenchmen than Brits, says it all about the modern game.

There were 7 brits and 3 irishmen (one of whom was born in Britain) involved on the field of play and a british manager

LuckyLloyd

Indie18 wrote: »

Not quite true considering Arsenal only lost one game against the top 3 in the league last season.

Hmm, good point. I suppose 'relative to last season' was a poor choice of words. But it will certainly be a much better test than they have faced thus far.

Mr Alan wrote: »

calling for a ban is idiotic tbh.

Maybe. But calling for a general rule and attitude change so that people get banned on the basis of video evidence for similar transgressions in the future isn't.

yahoo_moe wrote: »

I generally agree with your post there Lloyd, but the penalty wasn't the opening goal in the tie. Nor were Celtic looking particularly likely to score at that point, which was part-way through the second half of the tie. I'm not in any way defending Eduardo (you can see that from my previous posts in this thread) and I'm not going to go into Utd v Arsenal v 'Pool stuff, but that goal last night was less crucial than the first goal in a 90-minute game.

Well yes, in terms of the overall direction of the tie, the first goal last night was much less important in relative terms than the goals in Celtic Park. It was game over beyond a reasonable doubt once it went in though...

yahoo_moe wrote: »

Also, this keeps getting mentioned - and while goals 1 and 3 were unlucky, I don't see the issue with goal 2. Good play, a dangerous ball across with an attacker in behind Caldwell who then has to play it. The good ball put him in trouble, as with plenty of OGs we've all seen before (e.g. Djourou against Chelsea last year). Side issue in a way but still

This is fair. It was a good move from Arsenal and a cracking ball. If Caldwell didn't stick a foot on it, there was an Arsenal player on hand to finish (can't remember who it was?). So yeah, I'd retract that. Just the first and third goals were flukey.

greendom

premierstone wrote: »

There were 7 brits and 3 irishmen (one of whom was born in Britain) involved on the field of play and a british manager

So it was kind of a Britain vs the Rest of the World battle then?

premierstone

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is fair. It was a good move from Arsenal and a cracking ball. If Caldwell didn't stick a foot on it, there was an Arsenal player on hand to finish (can't remember who it was?). So yeah, I'd retract that. Just the first and third goals were flukey.

No you were right originally , the player behind was Bendtner ffs, I think I would have taken my chances

premierstone

greendom wrote: »

So it was kind of a Britain vs the Rest of the World battle then?

Where are both clubs based, what leagues do they play in, where are 90% of the fans from, where were the games played, where do the players pay taxes really I could go on and on ............. Do you get it yet??

greendom

premierstone wrote: »

Where are both clubs based, what leagues do they play in, where are 90% of the fans from, where were the games played, where do the players pay taxes really I could go on and on ............. Do you get it yet??

And yet, looking at the goalscorers, the victorious manager, etc, etc, it seems as if the Rest of the World won.

Mr Alan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Maybe. But calling for a general rule and attitude change so that people get banned on the basis of video evidence for similar transgressions in the future isn't.

Absolutely agree.

premierstone

greendom wrote: »

And yet, looking at the goalscorers, the victorious manager, etc, etc, it seems as if the Rest of the World won.

Gary Cladwell is scotish which is in britain btw seing that you dont seem to be able to connect things very well :P

greendom

premierstone wrote: »

Gary Cladwell is scotish which is in britain btw seing that you dont seem to be able to connect things very well :P

Point taken, don't get me wrong though I think it's brilliant. Some of the most xenophobic people in Britain (football supporters) are now adoring foreigners. I think its fantastic.

premierstone

greendom wrote: »

Point taken, don't get me wrong though I think it's brilliant. It could be argued that many UK football supporters were amongst the most xenophobic you could find there are now adoring foreigners. I think its fantastic

As do i but i bet you that them croat/brazilian types aint too popular in Scotland at the moment

LuckyLloyd

premierstone wrote: »

No you were right originally , the player behind was Bendtner ffs, I think I would have taken my chances

lol, wp

Pal

greendom wrote: »

Have I ?

Eduardo of Arsenal cheated.

Get over it.

Pal

Interyurauldone wrote: »

Eduardo's dive was right in front of us and it was pretty blatant.

Not on this thread it wasn't.

You see it doesn't matter that Eduardo dived or cheated.
Celtic would have lost anyway.
So therefore you didn't see it and it wsn't blatant.
and even if it was, well everybody dives anyway,

so there

now don't go saying anything else about Arsenal

greendom

Pal wrote: »

Eduardo of Arsenal cheated.

Get over it.

I didn't dispute that - What I did worry about was your absolute revulsion and horror of his deed and Wenger's reaction to it. if it bothers you that much then you should try a sport with less cheating - synchronised swimming perhaps ? You can't avoid cheating if you follow football.

Wreck

Pal wrote: »

Not on this thread it wasn't.

You see it doesn't matter that Eduardo dived or cheated.
Celtic would have lost anyway.
So therefore you didn't see it and it wsn't blatant.
and even if it was, well everybody dives anyway,

so there

now don't go saying anything else about Arsenal

Not one person on here has said it wasn't a dive or not condemned Eduardo for it.

Pal

greendom wrote: »

I didn't dispute that - What I did worry about was your absolute revulsion and horror of his deed and Wenger's reaction to it. if it bothers you that much then you should try a sport with less cheating - synchronised swimming perhaps ? You can't avoid cheating if you follow football.

revulsion and horror is a bit strong.

pizzed off maybe.

premierstone

Wreck wrote: »

Not one person on here has said it wasn't a dive or not condemned Eduardo for it.

Williecocker?????

Wreck

premierstone wrote: »

Williecocker?????

WillieCocker wrote: »

Was a bit of a dive there by Eduardo, but there was contact, however minimal.:)
1-0

Clearly states it was a dive.