Pub Industry on the Decline - Bad news or good?

leonardjos

Publicans claim lack of action will cause 5,000 job losses from today's Examiner.

The Vintners’ Federation of Ireland (VFI) said 4,800 jobs had already been lost in the industry over the past year.

The industry representative group warned that the social fabric of rural Ireland was under threat from high taxes and plans to lower the drink-driving limit.

The federation, which represents 4,500 publicans outside the Dublin region, claimed the industry was in turmoil with the closure of 1,700 pubs in the past five years – with 250 alone in the last 12 months.

Would the government not be considering this to be good news? We have the highest alcohol consumption levels in Europe, and people have being saying for years that the alcohol problem needs to be addressed. The recession seems to be doing what government and health policy failed to do. I personally see this as a positive development.

Mr Cribben defended the price of drinks in pubs, claiming publicans were restricted by competition legislation from introducing industry-wide price cuts or freezes.

He also pointed out that only one drinks supplier, Bulmers, had lowered the cost to the trade in the past year.

There is nobody stopping individual drinks producers or individual pubs from lowering prices. Of course, happy hours are not allowed. But they can simply cut the price for the full day. This is a pretty lame argument for the publicans' failure to respond to the changed economic circumstances.

I have no sympathy. Where is the newspaper article to publish the positive news that alcohol consumption is decreasing?

Do journalists simply copy and paste any old press release from vested interests nowadays, without any sort of analysis of what is actually happening?

bleg

1700 pub closures during the past 5 years? How many opened up in the mean time?

250 in the last 12 months - so more closed year on year for the four previous years i.e. less pubs closed since we entered the recession.

How many sold their licence to pubs in cities and made an absolute ****ing mint out of it?

leonardjos

bleg wrote: »

1700 pub closures during the past 5 years? How many opened up in the mean time?

250 in the last 12 months - so more closed year on year for the four previous years i.e. less pubs closed since we entered the recession.

How many sold their licence to pubs in cities and made an absolute ****ing mint out of it?

Great analysis. See its not too hard. Why are journalists incapable of this? I have to go online to see any real analysis of news stories these days.

roosterman71

leonardjos wrote: »

Would the government not be considering this to be good news? We have the highest alcohol consumption levels in Europe, and people have being saying for years that the alcohol problem needs to be addressed. The recession seems to be doing what government and health policy failed to do. I personally see this as a positive development.

I think the VFI are complaining more about the amount of people that drink at home now and buy cheap booze from supermarkets/off licences/etc. The publicans make no money this way. They want people in the pub and not sitting at home. So pubs closing isn't making much of a difference to Irelands alcohol problem. People just aren't doing it in pubs now.

leonardjos wrote: »

There is nobody stopping individual drinks producers or individual pubs from lowering prices. Of course, happy hours are not allowed. But they can simply cut the price for the full day. This is a pretty lame argument for the publicans' failure to respond to the changed economic circumstances.

There must be some sort of restriction on them, otherwise they'd all be at it

leonardjos wrote: »

Where is the newspaper article to publish the positive news that alcohol consumption is decreasing?

What are you basing this statement on?

leonardjos wrote: »

Do journalists simply copy and paste any old press release from vested interests nowadays, without any sort of analysis of what is actually happening?

Probably. Why bother writing and researching chen ya have copy and paste

I was in a pub one night and seen the bar staff carry out boxes of Miller with Dunnes sticker on them and selling them. Dunnes sell these for anything between €19.99 and €26.99 for 24 bottles. yet the pub was charging €4.70 per bottle!! I quizzed the barman, and he said "if you don't want to pay it, then f*%k off home"

bleg

roosterman71 wrote: »

There must be some sort of restriction on them, otherwise they'd all be at it

Nope, no restriction. In fairness I have seen a good few pubs having promotional days recently. Some pubs charge a certain rate up to a certain time and then raise the price.

I was in a pub one night and seen the bar staff carry out boxes of Miller with Dunnes sticker on them and selling them. Dunnes sell these for anything between €19.99 and €26.99 for 24 bottles. yet the pub was charging €4.70 per bottle!! I quizzed the barman, and he said "if you don't want to pay it, then f*%k off home"

I hope you did and you never go back.

witnessmenow

Tell mr customs about him. If he bought them in dunnes he didnt pay the excise on it.



Say whatever you want about the pub industry, but there is something fundamentally wrong when the person your trying to sell drink to can buy the exact same product cheaper than you can.

Re it being cheaper to drink at home: Drink prices in pubs probably didnt raise that much relative to peoples income over the last however many years, what has happened is off-licenses have become much much cheaper

leonardjos

Say whatever you want about the pub industry, but there is something fundamentally wrong when the person your trying to sell drink to can buy the exact same product cheaper than you can.

I guess they are adding value in terms of atmosphere, surroundings and customer service. :rolleyes:

Not that you would know it when you're standing at a bar for 10mins trying to get noticed by the barman so that can charge you EUR5 for a pint or EUR7 for a vodka and coke. Then you try to navigate away from the bar without someone knocking against you and spilling your drinks on top of your good shirt :P

In fairness local pubs are much better value and more relaxing than busy nightspots though. But its not as if they come down to your table and take your order and then bring your drinks down to you. Bars in most countries in Europe will provide this level of service and still charge less than in Ireland.

bleg

leonardjos wrote: »

I guess they are adding value in terms of atmosphere, surroundings and customer service. :rolleyes:

Ya, and if you don't like it you can **** off home. Which more people are doing. I think people's attitudes to pubs have changed though. Even if the prices came down people would still probably have a few drinks at home first and then heading out later around 10/11 instead of heading to the pub at 8.


Let's not get into a price comparison between here and other EU countries.

randypriest

Its fantastic that pubs are feeling the pinch. They are one of the cornerstones of Rip-Off Ireland and dont offer anything of real value. Oh wow Sky television and 7 euro pints, who could refuse? Its incredible that McDowell's great cafe bar idea was shot down by corrupt Fianna Fail politicians who didnt want the competition for their rip off pubs. And they are supposed to be serving the public!

And dont tell me about the poor guy in a rural village who has no social life if his local rural pub closes. What kind of pathetic existance is it if your social life revolves around a few hours spent in a pub getting tanked over a few pints. If you cant meet and chat to people outside of a pub environment and need it as an outlet then there's something wrong with your personality. Join a club or take up a hobby in your Community instead. Life doesnt have to revolve around beer thats sold at a 500% profit margin.

The only negative aspect of pub closures is the loss of jobs which is a devastating personal toll on those people but hey, C'est la Vie. Its the same for every industry(except banking).

ei.sdraob

businesses come and go

thats life

if your business doesnt adapt and evolve it dies

simple

helimachoptor

leonardjos wrote: »

In fairness local pubs are much better value and more relaxing than busy nightspots though. But its not as if they come down to your table and take your order and then bring your drinks down to you. Bars in most countries in Europe will provide this level of service and still charge less than in Ireland.

Mine does! If i didn't have to visit the gents I could sit in the same spot all night while the lounge staff bring me my beer

segaBOY

To be honest Alcohol adds very little benifit to our society. Bar the massive excise the Government gets and employment provided by the likes of Guinness, Bulmers and Beamish (all which have laid off considerable amount of staff might I add) there is little or no benifit. Sure I enjoy a good drink like the next person (I'm only in my 20s) but all in moderation, the amount my friends drink on a weekend out is shocking and quite frankly I don't see the point. They turn up for work unproductive and hungover and spend most of their weekly take on booze/activities associated with consuming it, they are literally p*ssing opportunity against the wind imo.

No harm that pubs are scaled back a bit imo

witnessmenow

leonardjos wrote: »

I guess they are adding value in terms of atmosphere, surroundings and customer service. :rolleyes:

I think you miss understood me.

My family is involved in quite a large pub, there wouldnt be too many pubs in athlone that would buy more drink than it.

Even with its buying of large quantities and its "buying power", for the want of a better word, it would pay more per bottle of bud from the wholesalers than you would in in Dunnes. Personally i think thats crazy.

Pubs need to majorly re-adjust their price structure regardless if the above scenario changes

Sand

The prices charged by Irish pubs is disgusting really - I would love to see a pub chain like Weatherspoons come over and decimate them. I've been gobsmacked by the prices charged in places like Canary Wharf...in a good way. Theres expensive bars here, but its not every ****ing bar.

Lets be clear here, publicans have driven away so many customers through ripping them off over the years that theyre running a pub into the ground in *Ireland*.

RGDATA!

leonardjos wrote: »

Would the government not be considering this to be good news? We have the highest alcohol consumption levels in Europe, and people have being saying for years that the alcohol problem needs to be addressed. The recession seems to be doing what government and health policy failed to do. I personally see this as a positive development.


Where is the newspaper article to publish the positive news that alcohol consumption is decreasing?

there's nothing in this about alcohol consumption going down and I would say that your assumption that it has is erroneous (or at least it hasn't gone down significantly).

Taxipete29

Publicans charged the prices people were willing to pay. If anyone is to blame for the rip off prices it is the customers who consistently paid them.

hopalong85

I wouldn't say it's particularly bad news. The industry will never die out. Hopefully the publicans/vintners will finally accept that prices need to go down, and service needs to go up. Simple as. I certainly have no sympathy for any publican who is falling on hard times yet still has the audacity to sell me a pint for 6euro.

Kalashnikov_Kid

hopalong85 wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's particularly bad news. The industry will never die out. Hopefully the publicans/vintners will finally accept that prices need to go down, and service needs to go up. Simple as. I certainly have no sympathy for any publican who is falling on hard times yet still has the audacity to sell me a pint for 6euro.

My sentiments exactly. Seeing as I can buy a decent pint in Cardiff city centre for £1.90 and one in 'stockbroker belt' Surrey for £2.90, I will not believe any of the lame excuses coming from the VFI and their pathetic excuses for 'suggestions':

It also wants local authority charges and water rates to be cut and the current blood alcohol levels for drivers to be kept at 80mgs

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/thousands-of-bar-workers-facing-unemployment-warn-vintners-423880.html

Thats right, screw the council's coffers even more and compromise road safety, instead of doing the ****ing obvious thing, rip-off merchants.

stepbar

witnessmenow wrote: »

I think you miss understood me.

My family is involved in quite a large pub, there wouldnt be too many pubs in athlone that would buy more drink than it.

Even with its buying of large quantities and its "buying power", for the want of a better word, it would pay more per bottle of bud from the wholesalers than you would in in Dunnes. Personally i think thats crazy.

Pubs need to majorly re-adjust their price structure regardless if the above scenario changes

Is there anything stopping a number of pubs joining up together and purchasing in bulk? As in a number of publicans (especially family owned) setting up a seperate trading company to purchase alcohol and selling it on to themselves at cost (covering costs etc)?

EDIT: Actually when I think about it Gibneys is owned by Diageo - so it could proof difficult. But still it's not impossible? I mean there was a time when Gibney's wasn't owned by Diageo. Why wasn't it done in the past? or was it?

RGDATA!

witnessmenow wrote: »

Even with its buying of large quantities and its "buying power", for the want of a better word, it would pay more per bottle of bud from the wholesalers than you would in in Dunnes. Personally i think thats crazy.

This seems crazy if it's accurate, but why is it the case? Surely there are people running pubs that are buying at least some of their stock in bulk from supermarkets then? I know that anomalies like this exist for small retailers when it comes to stuff like easter eggs, which nowadays are cheaper to buy (in small quantities) in supermarkets than direct from the likes of Cadbury/Nestle etc, and I know that accordingly retailers just stock up in Tescos.

Red Sleeping Beauty

stepbar wrote: »

Is there anything stopping a number of pubs joining up together and purchasing in bulk? As in a number of publicans (especially family owned) setting up a seperate trading company to purchase alcohol and selling it on to themselves at cost (covering costs etc)?

EDIT: Actually when I think about it Gibneys is owned by Diageo - so it could proof difficult. But still it's not impossible? I mean there was a time when Gibney's wasn't owned by Diageo. Why wasn't it done in the past? or was it?

Are all the pubs not owned by the same handful of people ?

SeaFields

There are some absolute gems around rural Ireland. Pubs that have stood still in time.

I have my own favorite one which I drink in regularly. There is a bar on one side and a hardware counter on the other. A little snug either side of the bar and two turf fires at either end of the room. The pub has been run for a number of generations by the same family. These are the types of pubs which I think would be a shame to lose.

As for the super pubs, which can take hundreds of people on a saturday night and the entertainment is no more than a ****e DJ and rip off the punters with crazy prices, I couldn't care less.

bleg

SeaFields wrote: »

There are some absolute gems around rural Ireland. Pubs that have stood still in time.

I have my own favorite one which I drink in regularly. There is a bar on one side and a hardware counter on the other. A little snug either side of the bar and two turf fires at either end of the room. The pub has been run for a number of generations by the same family. These are the types of pubs which I think would be a shame to lose.

As for the super pubs, which can take hundreds of people on a saturday night and the entertainment is no more than a ****e DJ and rip off the punters with crazy prices, I couldn't care less.

It's the gems like that that won't die out though. There will always be market for those types of pubs. They have little overheads, probably haven't been refurbished since the 50s and a loyal customer base.

SeaFields

I dunno Bleg. I think that the VFI were arguing that its the pubs in rural Ireland which are closing. And its certainly the case that when driving through a rural village or town there will inevitably be a few boarded up buildings which were formally pubs. But as you say hopefully they wont be the ones to go.

And I'll do my very best to help em remain open

Fat_Fingers

Offer value or go bust. Simple as that. I don't like VFI campaigns. They are all about saving pubs high prices, preserving drink driving but no mention of competitions between them. Where is the value for customer??? Why is government quiet on VFI trying to promote drink driving??? Why government didn't responding when publicans fixed the price (so called price freeze) and created price fixing cartel ????
40% of Fianna Fail T.D.s are publicans.

segaBOY

It's not just prices that is the problem here, the crack down on drink driving is causing serious problems for rural pubs and the proposed lowering of the limit from 80mg to 50mg will be another blow.

I have seen a few rural pubs run a mini bus on saturday night but not all pubs will be able to do this.

waitinforatrain

leonardjos wrote: »

I have no sympathy. Where is the newspaper article to publish the positive news that alcohol consumption is decreasing?

Alcohol and tobacco consumption are now impossible to measure due to all of the business being sent up North. Statistics show alcohol use is decreasing but there is no accurate way of measuring it.

40% of Fianna Fail T.D.s are publicans.

Eh... source?!

population

We have too many pubs. Clonee has 3 (maybe 4 actually?) large enough pubs on what is a very small main street. They are pretty much interchangeable in terms of price and service offered. If they owners of any one of the pubs had the gumption to lower their prices to a reasonable level, so long to the other 3 and you get one decent lively pub with decent price pints.

Copy and paste this solution throughout the country and the industry will survive, be streamlined and better for it.

maninasia

leonardjos wrote: »

Great analysis. See its not too hard. Why are journalists incapable of this? I have to go online to see any real analysis of news stories these days.

True, most journalists seem incapable of making any objective analysis, in fact they just parrot what some industry group or press release tells them.

old boy

a lot of pubs closed because of the crazy money owners were getting for the licence, from super pubs, off licience people, and supermarket groups, on a different slant a pint to the first person who has not seen a country publican bringing liquor from a supermarket, also the grapevine has it that there is plenty of illegal alcohol advailable to publicans on the black market.

hatrickpatrick

roosterman71 wrote: »

I think the VFI are complaining more about the amount of people that drink at home now and buy cheap booze from supermarkets/off licences/etc. The publicans make no money this way. They want people in the pub and not sitting at home. So pubs closing isn't making much of a difference to Irelands alcohol problem. People just aren't doing it in pubs now.

I can buy a six pack of Corona for €9 from O'Briens, or if I'm in a hurry, €12.70 in Centra.

I can buy ONE BOTTLE for about €4 or €5 in your average nightclub or bar.

Surely it's blindingly obvious how pubs could start getting more customers? I mean it's surely more fun to go into town for a night out but I tend to drink what I want to drink with my friends before I leave the house. It's literally DOUBLE the price to drink the same amount in a club or pub.

These publicans obviously need to study economics a bit, particularly the part about competition, and the law of supply and demand necessitating a reduction in prices once your customers cop on that you've been robbing them blind.

Why ARE drinks in pubs so much more expensive than in supermarkets, anyway?