New Restricted List SI 337 is now available

SSAI PRO

Guys,

The new Restricted list was published today (SI 337 2009 Firearms), and is available on the SSAI website and the NASRPC website.

As we understood it, the Commissioners guidelines should be available shortly.


Regards

SSAI PRO

Sparks

So centerfire moderators are no longer restricted. Excellent.

Sparks

And "designed for" has become "designed for use in connection with".... but the wording is still quite vague. Better, but still not right.

Sparks

And the list of pistols isn't in the SI, instead it's any .22lr pistol with a magazine of 5 rounds and a barrel longer than 10cm.

rrpc

You need to read it in conjunction with the original SI (21/2008) to make sense of it.

Available here

Apparently the list will be in the guidelines.

johngalway

rrpc wrote: »

Apparently the list will be in the guidelines.

Which are due out.... the ninth of never :rolleyes:

Great news on centrefire mods though

Scalachi

According to the DOJ, The guidelines are approved and should be published on the Garda Website Shortly.

It wasn't me!

A modicum of sanity on centrefire moderators, finally.

fat-tony

Sparks wrote: »

And "designed for" has become "designed for use in connection with".... but the wording is still quite vague. Better, but still not right.

That's the wording used in the original SI. Unless there's a list that the Superintendents are working from, then I foresee a lot of debate between .22 pistol licence applicants and Supers as to what constitutes "designed for use in connection with..." Hopefully the Commissioner's guidelines will clarify this, otherwise we are back into a lottery where the decision will depend on which Garda District you live in. The further restriction of 5 rounds in the magazine would seem to scupper the Buckmarks, Trailsides, eXesses used currently.

It wasn't me!

fat-tony wrote: »

That's the wording used in the original SI. Unless there's a list that the Superintendents are working from, then I foresee a lot of debate between .22 pistol licence applicants and Supers as to what constitutes "designed for use in connection with..." Hopefully the Commissioner's guidelines will clarify this, otherwise we are back into a lottery where the decision will depend on which Garda District you live in. The further restriction of 5 rounds in the magazine would seem to scupper the Buckmarks, Trailsides, eXesses used currently.

To say nothing of revolvers.

Sparks

I don't think the magazine size restriction scuppers anything actually.
Got a semi-auto with a 10-round mag and don't want it restricted? Crimp the magazine. Revolver with 6-shot or more capacity? Plug the spare slots with dowels. If it's good enough for a shotgun...

fat-tony

Interesting point regarding dowels etc., but I wouldn't suggest such a procedure without an ok from the DoJ/Gardaí - maybe the guidelines will clarify?

Sparks

Unknown f-t, but I'd love to hear what possible reasoning there could be in saying that you can have a .76 calibre pump-action loaded with buckshot (so thats one entire clip of 9mm ammunition fired at once whenever you pull the trigger) and sticking a dowel in the magazine is good enough to keep it off restricted status; but if you have a browning buckmark .22lr pistol with a crimped magazine, you couldn't be trusted to not uncrimp it!

I mean, there's a point past which the Gardai aren't so much looking out for public safety as they would be taking the mickey...

gunhappy_ie

Sparks wrote: »

So centerfire moderators are no longer restricted. Excellent.

Ive had 2 semi auto centerfires with permission for suppressors for over a year now... !

ayapatrick

Sparks wrote: »

So centerfire moderators are no longer restricted. Excellent.

maybe im not reading it correctly but where does it say this?

It wasn't me!

ayapatrick wrote: »

maybe im not reading it correctly but where does it say this?

Where it amends article 4.2.d to remove the word "rimfire" from the reference to unrestricted moderators, thereby making all moderators designed for use with long rifled firearms unrestricted.

rrpc

ayapatrick wrote: »

maybe im not reading it correctly but where does it say this?

(a) in subparagraph (d) by the deletion of the word “rim-fire”,

Where paragraph (d) used to say:

(d) silencers capable of being used only with long rifled rim-fire firearms;

fat-tony

Sparks wrote: »

Unknown f-t, but I'd love to hear what possible reasoning there could be in saying that you can have a .76 calibre pump-action loaded with buckshot (so thats one entire clip of 9mm ammunition fired at once whenever you pull the trigger) and sticking a dowel in the magazine is good enough to keep it off restricted status; but if you have a browning buckmark .22lr pistol with a crimped magazine, you couldn't be trusted to not uncrimp it!

I mean, there's a point past which the Gardai aren't so much looking out for public safety as they would be taking the mickey...

The original SI (in regard to pump-action or tube magazine shotguns) states
"(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges"

which is where we (all) have assumed that the dowel approach is ok.
But the new SI states (in regard to short firearms)
"...provided that the magazine capacity... does not exceed five rounds..."

I don't think it's implied that the magazine can be adapted to render it incapable of containing more than 5 rounds. Just my interpretation ok:)
I think the NGBs for pistol sports would want a lot more clarity on this, before suggesting the "dowel" approach.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

I don't think the magazine size restriction scuppers anything actually.
Got a semi-auto with a 10-round mag and don't want it restricted? Crimp the magazine. Revolver with 6-shot or more capacity? Plug the spare slots with dowels. If it's good enough for a shotgun...

Is it still just about being restricted though?

Don't forget that 4(2)(e) is now being used as the only method of getting a new pistol licence in the CJMPA 2009

fat-tony

ayapatrick wrote: »

maybe im not reading it correctly but where does it say this?

Just be aware that unrestricted does not mean that you don't need authorisation;)
You need to indicate on your FCA1 form that you are intending to use a moderator/silencer on your firearm. I'm assuming that the famous credit card certificate will have that fact endorsed on it.

ayapatrick

fat-tony wrote: »

Just be aware that unrestricted does not mean that you don't need authorisation;)
You need to indicate on your FCA1 form that you are intending to use a moderator/silencer on your firearm. I'm assuming that the famous credit card certificate will have that fact endorsed on it.

fully aware of that!:D

Sparks

fat-tony wrote: »

The original SI (in regard to pump-action or tube magazine shotguns) states
"(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges"

Yes, but the magazine in most shotguns is integral. Whereas the magazine in most pistols comes out. So we just use a magazine that has a five-round capacity. Maybe we have to buy new ones or maybe we can adapt old ones, but either way - the magazine capacity will be five rounds. That's what the SI calls for.

fat-tony

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, but the magazine in most shotguns is integral. Whereas the magazine in most pistols comes out. So we just use a magazine that has a five-round capacity. Maybe we have to buy new ones or maybe we can adapt old ones, but either way - the magazine capacity will be five rounds. That's what the SI calls for.

I'm not really sure there's much merit in you and I continuing to debate the finer points of the intention of the SI;) The watchers of this forum in the DoJ will by now have picked up on the adaptation process you have suggested and I'm sure there will be clarification of intent in due course.:)
I'm now just waiting for a thread to start that suggests it was all a dastardly plot by gunsmiths influencing the Minister so that they would earn a fortune modifying magazines for semi-autos and cylinders for revolvers:D

gunshy

if all these s.i...restrictions,announcements etc...where in plain english think how easy it would be for us ,the gardai...and anyone else involved in f.a licensing :P

johngalway

gunshy wrote: »

if all these s.i...restrictions,announcements etc...where in plain english think how easy it would be for us ,the gardai...and anyone else involved in f.a licensing :P

Where would the fun be in that though

rrpc

johngalway wrote: »

Where would the fun be in that though

Boards would close down and IRLConor would be on the dole.

Well done that Minister

gunshy

sorry i forgot about the fun part ,...3 months time is it :P or :mad:

johngalway

gunshy wrote: »

sorry i forgot about the fun part ,...3 months time is it :P or :mad:

Are we talkin prison time for an unlicensed firearm or time to apply for a licensed one? Lol.

gunshy

the latter hopefully

rowa

seems daft that they haven't gone with ten rounds as a magazine capacity , i could understand with the likes of glocks etc taking 17 rounds - a limit of ten , but why not go to six and include revolvers as unrestricted ,
so a buckmark or ruger mk 2 or 3 is restricted with one magazine and unrestricted with another , stupid !

IRLConor

rrpc wrote: »

Boards would close down and IRLConor would be on the dole.

Well done that Minister

I dunno, if everything was in simple English then maybe we could talk about shooting rather than legal/political stuff.

Seriously though, I think that if the government made a law about firearms in simple English it would read "No guns allowed". The English is complicated because the law is complicated. The law is complicated because they appear to be trying to encode their inconsistent, mixed-up value judgements into law.

There seems to be a continuous confusion among law-makers here (and in some other countries) that shotguns are safer than rifles and rifles are safer than handguns. If some scumbag points a firearm at you it doesn't matter if it's a battered old single barrel .410 shotgun or a Deathbringer 5000™ 9mm (:eek::rolleyes:) pistol, it's still lethal. Similarly, you can't make a firearm more dangerous by adding pistol grips, bigger magazines, black plastic stocks, laser pointers or even a moderator. While they've made some moves to focussing on the shooter (referees, GP, etc) they're still fixated on the firearm. Until that stops we're going to have daft, inconsistent and unhelpful firearms legislation foisted upon us.