New Restricted List SI 337 is now available

johngalway

IRLConor wrote: »

Arrrrghhhh.

Please, please, vote on the issues for Lisbon. Whether you're for or against it, it's too important a vote to waste trying to poke at a government that won't listen anyway. There'll be a general election soon anyway.

Also, does anyone see the sense in rejecting ever closer union with a bunch of countries with better firearms laws than ours as a means of protest against our own flawed laws? Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face!

Got to agree with you Conor. I'm a farmer, shooter and definitely no friend of FF, after a lot of consideration on the matter I'm going to vote yes to Lisbon. We keep voting no to these things and what friends we've left in the EU start to drift away then we're right royally fooked.

Looking forward to our own election though, am laid up in the long grass already

Bananaman

Many .22 revolvers are 8 shot capacity

Many people have three nipples - do you know of any personally?

But if you have a 6 shot revolver I'd imagine you're looking at permanently plugging one chamber

Looks like certain people want revolvers taken out of the target shooting arena - who doesn't use revolvers?

B'Man

Bananaman

Lisbon has nothing to do with shooting - take it to the politics forum

B'Man

G17

Bananaman wrote: »

Many people have three nipples - do you know of any personally?



Looks like certain people want revolvers taken out of the target shooting arena - who doesn't use revolvers?

B'Man

My 617 holds 10, not gold though, shame.

IRLConor

Bananaman wrote: »

Lisbon has nothing to do with shooting - take it to the politics forum

Good point.

Half-cocked

rrpc wrote: »

No, not here, but I think the US consider them a firearm or a restricted item and won't ship unless the dealer has special permits.

I didn't have that problem - possibly their rules have changed since then or they don't cover .22 rimfire mags. If its easy to import mags, then maybe it will be easier to get ones that comply with the 5 round regs rather that relying on the rip-off domestic trade.

Still no comfort for revolver owners though. Will the Gardai accept a non-permanent method of blocking a chamber like an expandable dowel or such like? After all, they have accepted non-permanent methods of restricting shotgun capacity.

rrpc

Half-cocked wrote: »

I didn't have that problem - possibly their rules have changed since then or they don't cover .22 rimfire mags. If its easy to import mags, then maybe it will be easier to get ones that comply with the 5 round regs rather that relying on the rip-off domestic trade.

I think it's relatively recent (last year or so), and pretty much includes everything.

Still no comfort for revolver owners though. Will the Gardai accept a non-permanent method of blocking a chamber like an expandable dowel or such like? After all, they have accepted non-permanent methods of restricting shotgun capacity.

Except it's the work of seconds to take a non-permanent plug out of a revolver cylinder.

Remember this is all about new licences really. According to the new act, anyone who held a pistol licence before 19/11/08 is entitled to have their application considered under the new system.

So really, if you're looking to get licensed now, at least you have the choice of whatever pistols have a five shot capacity that are on 'the list'.

IRLConor

Bananaman wrote: »

Looks like certain people want revolvers taken out of the target shooting arena - who doesn't use revolvers?

Dermot Ahern and most of the Garda Siochana.

If you're trying to sling muck at the NTSA, well think again. The bronze medal in the 2007 National Standard Pistol Championships went to a revolver shooter. Perhaps your clubmates who picked up the gold and silver didn't tell you?

guns4fun

We must surely be the laughing stock of european countries who shoot in competition,what other country in europe or the rest of the world for that matter have such silly laws?
They all have drugs and criminals but we seem to be the only ones who's minister has punished the sporting shooter on the theme of (guns might be stolen and used in crime)
The americans will surely be laughing at this.
Some of the reasons for restrictions is totally stupid, a bit like ali g is it cos i's black.

Half-cocked

rrpc wrote: »

Except it's the work of seconds to take a non-permanent plug out of a revolver cylinder.

But then you'd be breaking the law - in the same way that its the work of seconds to commit a multitude of other crimes. It should be good enough to make your revlover compliant with the regs and the Gardai/DOJ need to stop thinking that every firearm owner is a potential criminal prepared to use his/her firearm for illegal purposes as soon as Big Brother turns his back! Should I be posting on the Ranting & Raving forum instead?;)

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

Many people have three nipples - do you know of any personally?

B'Man

You really are a well balanced individual. Chip on both shoulders

All I was saying was that it'd be a bit more difficult to block up three cylinders and it makes getting the right cylinder under the hammer at the start a bit more troublesome.

So would you like to go out the door and come back in with a smile on your face this time?

rrpc

Half-cocked wrote: »

But then you'd be breaking the law - in the same way that its the work of seconds to commit a multitude of other crimes. It should be good enough to make your revlover compliant with the regs and the Gardai/DOJ need to stop thinking that every firearm owner is a potential criminal prepared to use his/her firearm for illegal purposes as soon as Big Brother turns his back! Should I be posting on the Ranting & Raving forum instead?;)

Sorry, I was just carrying on the discussion in the direction i thought it was going. Of course the element of trust is high on the list of 'things we must have to get a licence'....

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

Looks like certain people want revolvers taken out of the target shooting arena - who doesn't use revolvers?

No-one.
And to knock it on the head, yes, ISSF shooting uses revolvers as well, though they're not as competitive at the international level.

Meanwhile, reading back over stuff I missed yesterday, could people please dial it back from eleven? A bit more civility would be nice round here.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

Except it's the work of seconds to take a non-permanent plug out of a revolver cylinder.

It's a work of seconds to take a dowel out of a shotgun magazine as well.
Bit of equal treatment would be nice here, methinks.

Sparks

guns4fun wrote: »

We must surely be the laughing stock of european countries who shoot in competition

To quite an extent, we were that a long time before even the 2006 Act.
These latest measures aren't so much creating the problem as adding to it after many years.

G17

We got a sneak peek at the list of Olympic style target pistols previously, any update on that yet? Or is it now moot, just >10cm and 5 round mag - go shop?

Bananaman

I didn't have a go at anyone - I simply stated that whomsoever is advising the Minister did not take revolvers into account when coming up with a loaded ammo limit - ipso facto - whomsoever is advising the Minister does not shoot revolvers - most of the people I know do - helps narrow it down.

B'Man

Sparks

Not really B'man. The Gardai don't shoot revolvers either, and they've got the ear of the Minister a lot more than any NGB does.

BornToKill

G17 wrote: »

is it now moot, just >10cm and 5 round mag - go shop?

Indicative list to be in the guidelines (out today or tomorrow???). That means there is room for convincing a Super on the merits of your choice even if it isn't on the list but whatever you've chosen must meet the standard set in the SI - minimum 10cm barrel and maximum 5 shot capacity.

Half-cocked

Bananaman wrote: »

I didn't have a go at anyone - I simply stated that whomsoever is advising the Minister did not take revolvers into account when coming up with a loaded ammo limit - ipso facto - whomsoever is advising the Minister does not shoot revolvers - most of the people I know do - helps narrow it down.

B'Man

Maybe they did advise the Minister that 5 rounds would create problems for revolver owners so please consider increasing it to 6 and then the Minister decided to go ahead with 5 anyway as a way of effectively banning revolvers? The Minister would have been getting advice from many sources, some of which would be hostile to civilian gun owners so its very hard to point the finger at anyone.

Grizzly 45

IRLConor wrote: »

Arrrrghhhh.

Please, please, vote on the issues for Lisbon. Whether you're for or against it, it's too important a vote to waste trying to poke at a government that won't listen anyway. There'll be a general election soon anyway.

Also, does anyone see the sense in rejecting ever closer union with a bunch of countries with better firearms laws than ours as a means of protest against our own flawed laws? Talk about biting off your nose to spite your face!

Taking a few points in one post.

Lisbon has nothing to do with shooting....You WILL eat those words one day...:(

Soo,you would all buy a TV set or enter a HP agreement without reading the fine print,without understanding it??And you want to sign up for a treaty that not even barristers can understand???Not to mind our politicans???
As for a democratic process,everyone forgot the Dutch,French and if they could vote for it Germans would and did reject this out of hand???Very democratic I must say...Dont think for a moment this will end the depression either in Ireland.Without going into a big political debate on this.Can anyone give me three benefits in plain English that will affect us in our day to day????

Eu has "better" gun laws than Ireland??
Well lets see,we are groaning about the new laws..
Anyone like to do the German hunting test?? 2 YEARS boys of classroom and field work before you get to even consider shooting anything.
Oh and BTW on your practical shoting skills for a hunter ,it is a score of 85% or better.HCAP has cogged the EASY bits from the German test BTW...:eek:
Not to mind about 8 grand of your money and at least 12 hours a week of your time on your reserve building tree stands,feeding deer,head counts etc..
12 months of range attendance with compulsory psycharitic evualation if you are under 21 now for your target liscense anyone???Oh,thats with an air pistol BTW,not that you might want to shoot just airpistol,just to see if you are a nutter or not...And be in EVERY week too..
Britan..better gun laws?????:rolleyes:Holland..forget any type of hunting there..Only places that are still pretty good are the East bloc,but who would want to live there,and how long wil it last???
Has Europe got better gun laws,depends on your outlook and where you are.By and large we still have it pretty easy here.BUT of course if you would rather have EU laws governing us here........

Can we all say VRT???
And belive me people when the EU DOES harmonise the gun laws,the Govt WILL take the worst of it to slap on us,and ignore the benefits to us[not there will be much of that].No one noticed then how the EU "harmanisation" of categories of firearms is currently messing up our heads here???And how it was turned against us by Aherne???You think it is bad now???Wait until Brussells runs this!!

FG/Labour....well,lets consider who started off this whole sorry mess in the first place....Deasy and Flannagan...So do you honestly think they will be any different once they have the Mercs&Perks??
Lads,they are all politicans,worst of all they are Irish politicans!A totally untrustworthy breed at best....
it's easy to tell they are fibbing..Their lips are moving..I'm from Missouri on them changing or doing anything better for us once they are in power.

Banning IPSC.Yes the EU and US isnt laughing at us they are totally baffled!!!That any country bans an internationally recognised sport,that is even recognised and allowed in dictatorships like Zimbabwae...:eek:

rrpc

Half-cocked wrote: »

The Minister would have been getting advice from many sources, some of which would be hostile to civilian gun owners so its very hard to point the finger at anyone.

Not that it'll actually stop people trying

And B'man, don't pretend you're not trying to have a go at people. You've been doing it consistently and without any basis other than 'if X isn't using Y then they must be agin it' which is the most childish piece of logic I've ever heard (outside of George Bush rhetoric that is).

Bananaman

The Gardai are not advising him on what are acceptable pistols - rubbish.

If the Gardai were the ones making the definition - i.e. asked for their view on what pistols should be allowed they would say none - no air pistols, no .22s, no centrefires, no spud guns, regardless of competitions they are used in - it's simply less paperwork for them.

I seriously doubt that the FPU told the Minister that a Walther .22 pistol with a 5 shot magazine is safer than a Buckmark .22 pistol with a 10 round magazine or a Glock 9mm pistol with a 17 shot magazine.
They require the same amount of paperwork and require the same response if reported to the gardai.

There is NO way this is coming from the Gardai.

B'Man

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

The Gardai are not advising him on what are acceptable pistols - rubbish.

Would you care to place a small wager on that notion sir?

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Not really B'man. The Gardai don't shoot revolvers either, and they've got the ear of the Minister a lot more than any NGB does.

OH YES they still do use S&W .38 Sparks.:D At least the last two I saw gaurding a person of note two months ago in my part of the World.

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

The Gardai are not advising him on what are acceptable pistols - rubbish.

If the Gardai were the ones making the definition - i.e. asked for their view on what pistols should be allowed they would say none - no air pistols, no .22s, no centrefires, no spud guns, regardless of competitions they are used in - it's simply less paperwork for them.

Within the parameters that the Minister set and which were created by the original restricted SI in March 2008.

I seriously doubt that the FPU told the Minister that a Walther .22 pistol with a 5 shot magazine is safer than a Buckmark .22 pistol with a 10 round magazine or a Glock 9mm pistol with a 17 shot magazine.

They are not Olympic pistols which the Minister said he was making limited exceptions for.

There is NO way this is coming from the Gardai.

B'Man

No it came from the Minister, on 19th November.

And to be clear on this, the NTSA did not lobby the Minister before he made that statement. Like most people we didn't even see it coming. You can check that with anyone, right up to the Minister himself if you want.

But you won't because it's easier to believe that this is some uber-conspiracy against you and your sport.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

OH YES they still do use S&W .38 Sparks.:D At least the last two I saw gaurding a person of note two months ago in my part of the World.

And were they shooting them?
Long gap between wearing and shooting, and with the Garda range closed down and Gardai being refused licences for private training with their service firearms, I don't think there's much revolver shooting going on with our boys in blue!

(Besides, why would they keep using the old 38's when we just paid lots of money for them to all be issued with new Sigs?)

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

And to be clear on this, the NTSA did not lobby the Minister before he made that statement. Like most people we didn't even see it coming. You can check that with anyone, right up to the Minister himself if you want.

He's right on that B'man. Probably the lowest point for the FCP in its entire existence. I don't know if the Minister even knew it existed when he made that announcement.

BornToKill

Sparks wrote: »

Would you care to place a small wager on that notion sir?

I'd like some of that action too if it's going. Easy money.

Bananaman

Plenty of Gardai have personal firearms licenses - plenty of those are revolvers.

B'Man