2009 Belgian GP.

ottostreet

Just after watching the classic Belgian GPs on BBCs Red Button, and really starting to get excited for this race. A thriller almost every year! And off-track, the focus still on Raikkonen/Alonso/Massa all apparently driving for Ferrari next year.

Anyone think we're gonna see any announcements this race, or will we have to wait til Monza?

According to James Allen, he thinks Rosberg is signed, sealed and delivered as McLaren driver no.2 Link

On track, I think the battle will be down to McLaren/Red Bull and Kimi this weekend. Hopefully Kimi for me anyway, despite the news that Ferrari have officially abandoned development of the F60.

Thoughts for the weekend anyone?

amacachi

Unless it's raining (fingers crossed) I'd say it'll be a snorefest after the first couple of laps. Brawns should be happy to get in the top 6.

Badoer still in the Ferrari for the weekend?

ottostreet

yeah Badoer is confirmed.

I hope he does well, I have a soft spot for him, probably because he was in F1 when I started watching, and theres very few of them left!

Interestingly, Ferrari only have one driver change allowed for the rest of the year. If they announce something that pisses off Raikkonen at Monza, and Massa is unable to return, what are Ferrari going to do!

BoardsRanger

ottostreet wrote: »

yeah Badoer is confirmed.

I hope he does well,

Stop waisting you time hoping - he wont! He never had what it takes to be a top driver and he certainly didnt have it last weekend.

With regards to the race, expect the Redbulls to be alot stronger at spa. If their engines hold up, they should have a good race.

EvilMonkey

ottostreet wrote: »

Interestingly, Ferrari only have one driver change allowed for the rest of the year. If they announce something that pisses off Raikkonen at Monza, and Massa is unable to return, what are Ferrari going to do!

Bend the rules

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

You always hope that Spa will turn out to be a cracking race due the track, but it usually isnt. That said it probably will be better than most of the newly designed tracks races.

Can't be much worse than them anyway. Let alone anything else the fact that a lot of the new tracks are in areas where it won't rain ruins them.

amacachi

Always think when watching/reading about old races just how good was Martin Brundle?

They're showing the 1995 Belgian GP now, an absolute classic.

amacachi

amacachi wrote: »

Always think when watching/reading about old races just how good was Martin Brundle?

They're showing the 1994 Belgian GP now, an absolute classic.

Did you follow F1 back in his day? Because he never impressed me as anything other than average but amiable.

amacachi

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Has is an amazing driver, their was a nice thread on here a while ago where somebody (not saying who) said he was useless. He won pretty alot of classes except in F1. He even managed to push Senna all the way to the last race in F3000.

Yeah, even in F1 the only teammates who really beat him were Schumacher and Senna, and he wasn't all that far behind them when you compare how others did against those drivers.

Moonbaby wrote: »

Did you follow F1 back in his day? Because he never impressed me as anything other than average but amiable.

I started watching in 94/95, I was only 6 and by that stage Brundle was already down with the lower-grid teams.

To be fair, that is when I started watching too.

I have this internet forum bud, who has every f1 race since the late 60's recorded.
The sooner he sets himself up with some kind of piratebay situation.
So we can actually judge for ourselves, the better.

amacachi

Moonbaby wrote: »

To be fair, that is when I started watching too.

I have this internet forum bud, who has every f1 race since the late 60's recorded.
The sooner he sets himself up with some kind of piratebay situation.
So we can actually judge for ourselves, the better.

Too ****in right. Said it before but I really don't get why FOM don't do full Season DVDs. Publishing costs **** all now.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

And even then he beat them on more than a few occasions.

Yup, when you compare him to Schumi in 92 ya also have to wonder if he hadn't had such a disastrous start would the team have been slightly more biased towards him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Formula_One_season#1992_Drivers_Championship_final_standings

De Hipster

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Has is an amazing driver, their was a nice thread on here a while ago where somebody (not saying who) said he was useless. He won pretty alot of classes except in F1. He even managed to push Senna all the way to the last race in F3000.

hmmm....

lendrew1

Yeah, Brundle was one of the unluckiest drivers in F1, he always seemed to be in the wrong place in the wrong time.
He always seems to be quite modest about himself despite the fact he was only genuinely beaten by Senna and Schumi.

kierank01

amacachi wrote: »

Can't be much worse than them anyway. Let alone anything else the fact that a lot of the new tracks are in areas where it won't rain ruins them.

I seem to remember that there was a light drizzle in Malaysia this year

amacachi

kierank01 wrote: »

I seem to remember that there was a light drizzle in Malaysia this year

Like I said, "a lot". Don't think there's much chance of a monsoon at the latest addition of Abu Dhabi.

Slutmonkey57b

In terms of the race, what are the bookies offering on Button to Bottle the start again.

From BBC:
"I've just lost so many points because I've been in the wrong position and I've not been able to overtake," Button added.

"If you look at the last race, I didn't qualify very well and then, on Sunday, if I had stayed inside Vettel [off the start] I would have broken my front wing and wrecked his race as well.

"It's not a case of having a conservative approach but I think we need to do something different with strategy that doesn't put me in a position around cars that are fighting me for the championship."

Bullllllll **** Jenson. You've let everyone past you the past 4 starts. Grow a pair and start barging. If you crash out and lose the 1 point you'd have scraped, then it's a loss. If you keep your place and get 8 or 10 points then it's a much bigger win. And he's not going to win this year unless he starts getting more aggressive.

amacachi

Meh, he can lose three points a race to Rubens, all he needs to do is consistently finish in the top 5/6 and the title is his.

Iron Hide

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Bend the rules

Marc Gene!!! :P

EvilMonkey

Red Storm wrote: »

Marc Gene!!! :P

An Italian in by Monza(Fisichella?).

Drivers are using this i cant overtake excuse allot now, its like they all believe its harder to overtake now so they dont even try, and have the perfect excuse. They end up being too conservative, far to many cars are finishing races get stuck in.
Button dont finish a race and say you were stuck behind slower cars force a move, at least let us see you trying and stop being so conservative.

delta720

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Button dont finish a race and say you were stuck behind slower cars force a move, at least let us see you trying and stop being so conservative.

Force a move!? In fairness im sure he was trying very hard! And he even posted in a few fastest laps near the end of the race, I'm no F1 driver but from what i can tell forcing a move will get you in too deep and just lose you more time. Unfortunately these days in F1 you just gotta wait for the driver infront to make a mistake.

Anyway back on topic, I'm flying out to Brussels tomorrow morning!!:D:D

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

An Italian in by Monza(Fisichella?).

Drivers are using this i cant overtake excuse allot now, its like they all believe its harder to overtake now so they dont even try, and have the perfect excuse. They end up being too conservative, far to many cars are finishing races get stuck in.
Button dont finish a race and say you were stuck behind slower cars force a move, at least let us see you trying and stop being so conservative.

Hard to force a move from a second back with the tiny breaking distances involved.

amacachi

delta720 wrote: »

Anyway back on topic, I'm flying out to Brussels tomorrow morning!!:D:D

**** you. :P

EvilMonkey

delta720 wrote: »

Force a move!? In fairness im sure he was trying very hard! And he even posted in a few fastest laps near the end of the race, I'm no F1 driver but from what i can tell forcing a move will get you in too deep and just lose you more time. Unfortunately these days in F1 you just gotta wait for the driver infront to make a mistake.

Anyway back on topic, I'm flying out to Brussels tomorrow morning!!:D:D

I'm sure he was trying hard too.
How much time did he loose stuck in traffic?
No point in setting fastest laps at the end when everyone has pitted and are spread out.
Force a move make it stick and then start doing quick laps, easer said than done i know!

amacachi wrote: »

Hard to force a move from a second back with the tiny breaking distances involved.

Then he shouldn't complain that he is being held up if he is staying back 1 sec so he is in the clean air, thats his choice.

I'm not saying be reckless but at some point you have to either force a move if a slower car in front is wreaking your race.

I know its harder now, the front wing is easy to loose, Valencia doesn't give many opportunities to try something, and its easy for me to say but it seams like all the drivers would rather play it safe rather than take a risk these days.

If he took a risk last week and it payed off he would be in a better position now, and if he crashed out or lost a wing he wouldn't be in much worse of a position.

Back on topic, A light sprinkling of rain please spa weather gods.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Then he shouldn't complain that he is being held up if he is staying back 1 sec so he is in the clean air, thats his choice.

The air is turbulent to 0.7/0.8 of a second back, yeah they're in clear air but one decent corner and they're in the dirty air and will fall back more.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

The air is turbulent to 0.7/0.8 of a second back, yeah they're in clear air but one decent corner and they're in the dirty air and will fall back more.

Well you wont pass without going into the dirty air.

delta720

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Then he shouldn't complain that he is being held up if he is staying back 1 sec so he is in the clean air, thats his choice.

I really don't wanna sound like a smart arse writing this but...

The thing is the air 1 second back isn't 'clean'. The very fact your driving in 'dirty' air prevents you from getting closer than about .8 seconds during most stages of a lap. Driving in 'clean' air is when you have a pure clear track infront of you. It's not a case of getting a 'hit' of clean air and then making a daring move on a slower car infront of you. It used to be the case that your car had to be at least 2 seconds a lap faster than the car infront to make a pass when your stuck in the mid-field in a competative car, I'm not sure what it is now with the new rear wings, slightly less I'm sure.

amacachi

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Well you wont pass without going into the dirty air.

Yeah I know, but it's next to impossible to follow closer than a second through a corner, so the only chance to get past is a massive mistake followed by a long, wide straight into a heavy braking area. If it were possible to pass they'd be doing it.

delta720

amacachi wrote: »

Yeah I know, but it's next to impossible to follow closer than a second through a corner, so the only chance to get past is a massive mistake followed by a long, wide straight into a heavy braking area. If it were possible to pass they'd be doing it.

And theres me thinking I was the only person from Dundalk who liked F1!!:p

Slutmonkey57b

The problem is not making moves during the race, it's giving positions away for nothing at the start. At silverstone, he claimed he couldn't get around either side of Trulli, which was marginal at best. At valencia he just sat on the grid and let people walk all over him. He got 2 points by being a cautious little bunny. He SHOULD have had 6 or 8. He won't win this by getting 3,4,5 points every race. He has to win, or at least outscore his rivals every race. The "every point counts" mantra means "go for that extra point every time" not "only score one and you're ok."

Another point made recently about overtaking is that because the field is so tight (couple of hundredths a second), there isn't the performance gap between the frontrunners and the midfield/backmarkers that there used to be. We might complain about some teams having "crap" cars this year, but in the 80's there were performance gaps in multiple seconds. It's not difficult to overtake a guy that's a second slower than you when his car isn't throwing up turbulance that makes yours skate off the track.

EvilMonkey

delta720 wrote: »

I really don't wanna sound like a smart arse writing this but...

The thing is the air 1 second back isn't 'clean'. The very fact your driving in 'dirty' air prevents you from getting closer than about .8 seconds during most stages of a lap. Driving in 'clean' air is when you have a pure clear track infront of you. It's not a case of getting a 'hit' of clean air and then making a daring move on a slower car infront of you. It used to be the case that your car had to be at least 2 seconds a lap faster than the car infront to make a pass when your stuck in the mid-field in a competative car, I'm not sure what it is now with the new rear wings, slightly less I'm sure.

Your right none of the air is clean but staying 1 sec back saved his front tyres, the closer he gets the more he slides messing up the tyres. He chose to stay back, so why is he complaining. He has his 6deg adjustment on the front wing :pac:

Anyway i dont want to be getting on Button too much there all doing this.
If they dont make a move at the start they just settle in behind and fall into the trap of following the car in front instead of pushing them into a mistake or make a move and i know this isn't the right thing to do all the time but it is sometimes and sometimes the right thing is to follow and do the fast laps later.

Its the complaining, i couldn't get past when they chose to wait that is annoying.

@Slutmonkey57b Thats what I'm talking about too stay inside Vettel force him to move to save his wing,take a chance stop thinking too much about finishing in the points. You do have to be smart about finishing in the points but dont get pushed around.

I dont expect any difference in overtaking i know its almost impossible and I'm being totally unreasonable.

amacachi

delta720 wrote: »

And theres me thinking I was the only person from Dundalk who liked F1!!:p

Live and learn eh? :P

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

The problem is not making moves during the race, it's giving positions away for nothing at the start. At silverstone, he claimed he couldn't get around either side of Trulli, which was marginal at best. At valencia he just sat on the grid and let people walk all over him. He got 2 points by being a cautious little bunny. He SHOULD have had 6 or 8. He won't win this by getting 3,4,5 points every race. He has to win, or at least outscore his rivals every race. The "every point counts" mantra means "go for that extra point every time" not "only score one and you're ok."

If he gets 5 points a race then Rubens has to average 8 points a race to draw level with him. Two top two finishes and the rest 6th or better and he wins the title.

EvilMonkey

amacachi wrote: »

If he gets 5 points a race then Rubens has to average 8 points a race to draw level with him. Two top two finishes and the rest 6th or better and he wins the title.

He has it in the bag as long as he finishes in the points and a couple of good results its over.

delta720

EvilMonkey wrote: »

He has it in the bag as long as he finishes in the points and a couple of good results its over.

Easier said than done! Kimi '07!

I hopeing for a couple of DNF's maybe a win from Webber this weekend...:D

EvilMonkey

If he takes my overtaking advice we will get a DNF or too! :pac:
Engines could be a factor as they use them up toward the end of the season. Vettel is in trouble any way.

Slutmonkey57b

He can't afford "one or two" good results, and it's by no means in the bag. He is two wins away from losing. Valencia, he was *barely* able to scrape points and I'd argue he didn't deserve them, and that was with a car that was the fastest on the grid. The next few races aren't going to be as hot. What will he do then? He's looking at 2 races with no points, rubens wins two, or webber wins two, and where is he? Buggered. He's throwing it away.

More to the point, his rivals now know he can be bullied out of position.

Joneser

Im hoping for a Red Bull 1-2 this weekend with vettel taking the win and the brawns following them in the points, would love to get to the last race and have a 4 horse race between the red bull and brawn drivers, would certainly make things interesting.

amacachi

How the hell are there cars running around the (extremely green) track right now within 1-2 seconds of last year's fastest time in Quali 2? So much for slowing the cars down.

Iron Hide

EvilMonkey wrote: »

An Italian in by Monza(Fisichella?).

Drivers are using this i cant overtake excuse allot now, its like they all believe its harder to overtake now so they dont even try, and have the perfect excuse. They end up being too conservative, far to many cars are finishing races get stuck in.
Button dont finish a race and say you were stuck behind slower cars force a move, at least let us see you trying and stop being so conservative.

Yeah sky sports are touting fisi as getting the ferrari seat till seasons end. Would be a nice thing at his career stage for the guy and at least he isnt afraid to stamp on the throttle.

Agree with you there re button, his comment about the risk of damaging his or Vettels car was utter bollocks, Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Senna, Prost and pretty much any driver with a pair of balls says "**** you anyway, i'm overtaking"... Stick Nico Rosberg in the Brawn for a race and see what happens, no kers in that or the Williams and he still makes 2 or 3 off the start. Button will most likely be champion and god forgive me for saying this but i do think he deserves it.. Plugging away for 8 or 9 seasons now and only got his first win in '06.. Webber deserves one too, probably more than Button but i think at 33 its this year or never for Mark.. C'mon the Red Bull at Spa!!!!

BoardsRanger

Although I am fairly sure a red bull will win this weekend, i think an each way bet on Kimi @ 10-1 would be a good bet.

With regards to Badoer- please Ferrari take him out of the car asap! Go out on a limb and give some young gun a chance and let Luca get on with his retirement.

ottostreet

Please God please...let Kimi win this weekend!

25 races without a win, but right on the pace today. Hamilton & Raikkonen right up front today..heres hoping!

EvilMonkey

Engine change for Webber before qualifying. So not just Vettel then!

amacachi

Come on Fisichella!

amacachi

I am absolutely ****in delighted, fantastic to see!

Slutmonkey57b

What on EARTH is going on this year!! Mind boggling quali.

Complete mirror image for Brawn compared to the start of the year - Rubens quietly getting on with it, doing what needs to be done when he needs to do it. Button flailing around, looking for some excuse to grab hold of, performances all over the place. At least he won't have to worry about having a poor start since they'll probably one stop him from there and hope he doesn't get overtaken by Badoer in his Kers equipped ferrari!

Running Bing

Jaysus Stefano Domenicali must have been standing at the finish line with a little contract in his hand to get that out of Fisi.:D

Irishshin

That was one brilliant qualifying session!
So glad for Fisi

EvilMonkey

Great session, Delighted for Fisichella.
It will be interesting to see the fuel loads.

Ghost Train

Cool result, can't wait for the race

cherryghost

jaysus. :eek:

amacachi

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

What on EARTH is going on this year!! Mind boggling quali.

Complete mirror image for Brawn compared to the start of the year - Rubens quietly getting on with it, doing what needs to be done when he needs to do it. Button flailing around, looking for some excuse to grab hold of, performances all over the place. At least he won't have to worry about having a poor start since they'll probably one stop him from there and hope he doesn't get overtaken by Badoer in his Kers equipped ferrari!

Did you hear Button after the session?

Phibsboro

Go on Fisi! Button looked wrecked afterwards, compare him to Ham who hardly seemed to have broken a sweat.

BTW - anyone know what that song was that BBC played out with?

c