2009 Belgian GP.

Iron Hide

Fisi ya mad bastard!! Paddpower have him 8-1 for a win. E10 on that methinks!

cherryghost

interesting to see that barichello could be the lightest on the grid. an early pitstop could throw him back into buttons 10th-14th position territory.

another thing. Trulli has an awful reputation from bad starts. But when he does, for some reason he drops back after the 1st stop anyway, so it'll be interesting how that pans out. Heidfeld looks to be in the strongest position from the top 5 imo, unless fisichella manages to pull out some stonking laps, which is a possibility, but the weight there tells me hes going to try a 3 stop to rather than the conventional 2 stop. A one stop in spa is rarely used because of the amount of flat out areas, the weight difference isnt worth it, but the back lads dont have anything to lose.

Unless it rains, of course..

cherryghost

theres feck all chance of rain 2moro unfortunately, but its forecast to be even cooler than today, expect a huge brawn struggle

rua1972

Button has 50 more kilo's of fuel than barrichello. And only Fisichella is lighter than Barrichello. I'm looking forwrd for the start tomorrow, is BMW running KERS this race?
I think/hope Kimi will to something nice tomorrow.

Min

A Trulli/Toyota win would be great.

muckwarrior

As much as i'd love to see fisi win i'll be rooting for heidfeld tomorrow. Backed him yesterday at 130-1!

vectra

cherryghost wrote: »

Heidfeld looks to be in the strongest position from the top 5 imo, .

Have you forgotten about Kimi ??
The only car in the top 6 runnning Kers.
On his track

amacachi

As long as Fisichella doesn't get overtaken at the start and they fuel him heavily at the first stop he has a great chance at a win. But I stick by what I said last week, Kimi has a great chance of winning this race.

Running Bing

What the fvck!:eek:

Grim.

well 10 points for me on the first lap

Top Dog

I'm loving this! Fisi just will not let Kimi get away

jhegarty

Why no parade lap ?

Grim.

jhegarty wrote: »

Why no parade lap ?

tracks to long



well done fisi epic drive

and woot for ferrari good to hear the italian anthem again

kierank01

jhegarty wrote: »

Why no parade lap ?

There has not been a parade lap at Spa for ages.

Ghost Train

Good race for Kimi and Fisi, Kimi was a bit lucky to get away with getting hit in the back and was a bit cheeky using the run off at the start, seemed to give him a slight advantage getting past the bmw

Would love to see force india win in monza

Fabio

Congrats to the real winner...Force India and Fisi! He has a real chance at Monza if he stays with them for it and as Eddie Jordan pointed out on BBC, if he's thinking long term then he should reject any calls from Ferrari cos he ain't gonna be in their plans next year.

amacachi

Don't know why the stewards didn't look into what Kimi at the start. It's a tactic I use in video games sometimes and even in that there's a penalty. :pac:

EvilMonkey

Good race, great race from Fisichella/Force India. Good to see the BMWs at the front again too.
Excellent start by Kimi, intelligent, aggressive and won him the race.

ODD-JOB

Yup....... Brundle thought it was planned too !
He carried a quicker pace all along that straight from la source !

Next year they'll all be doing it

vectra

ODD-JOB wrote: »

Next year they'll all be doing it

There was a few more followed him out there

brownacid

Possibley Kimis best race of the season and feic all being said. If he had stayed in 6th place you'd all be sh!tein on about how he was only thinking of ice cream or that he's past it.

amacachi

brownacid wrote: »

Possibley Kimis best race of the season and feic all being said. If he had stayed in 6th place you'd all be sh!tein on about how he was only thinking of ice cream or that he's past it.

Aye, very little praise for a great drive in what wasn't the fastest car out there. I would give the BBC the benefit of the doubt that it was due to Fisi's result, but it's just been going on too long.

larry1

Various Drivers On Board footage of the start

http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/7812/belgium-grand-prix-2009-start-mayhem-on-boards

Slutmonkey57b

Wow, what a race, could have been even better but for the carnage that caught Button up. He finally made a proper start for the first time in 5 races - being so far down helped him a bit I think, as he had nothing in the back of his head telling him not to go for it. Made up 4 or 5 places at the start, was looking strong and aggressive even on heavy feul, if he had been able to race maybe he could have put some of the criticisms to bed. Barrichello bodged the start again, something seriously wrong there.

New boy Grosjean won't be getting any christmas cards this year. Does this show up the dangers of a team throwing an inexperienced driver in mid-season? I don't think so, Alguesari was caught up in the melee, so I don't pin blame on him. Grosjean had a reputation as a crashy driver in GP2. In fact, GP2 seems to be a crashfest which is not a good thing in an f1 "feeder" series. There are millions of dollars at stake for the teams, even at the back of the grid as Jordan pointed out. Losing your own team a car is irresponsible, losing a whole load of other teams their cars will get you into big trouble.

Edit: Mind you, looking at the recap posted above, it looks a bit like Jenson was cutting across Grosjean and didn't expect him to still be there. 50/50? The new boy gets the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Full marks for Force India though, they deserved the result this weekend. Jordan is right though, whatever about Fisi being let go for one race on a "what's in it for me guv" palm greasing job from VJ, there's no point expecting a drive from ferrari for more than that. So what are Ferrari to do?
Maybe.. just maybe.... drag Alonso out of the Renault early? Alonso and Kimi at Monza? Flav was making noises last week about how they "would do everything they can to help Ferrari, we respect them".... does he respect them that much? Renault have written off the rest of the season. Would losing Alonso spell the death knell for French involvement? Could we have 3 manufacturer teams looking for new owners next year?

First race listening to Croft and Ant on 5 live.
Brilliant
Brilliant.
Brilliant.
Switching back to TV audio I caught the last of Legard recapping the race. My ****ing God the guy is even worse than I thought. Woeful. Nothing to say, and boring the socks off you saying it. I'm sure I missed some interesting thoughts from Brundle, which is a pity. But not enough to make me go back! Croft does everything Legard is supposed to do - add colour, wit and excitement. Like Murray, he's a guy who clearly likes being at the racetrack, has fun, and is excited about what might happen. Fewer glaring errors though. Ant is brilliantly humerous.

vectra

brownacid wrote: »

Possibley Kimis best race of the season and feic all being said. If he had stayed in 6th place you'd all be sh!tein on about how he was only thinking of ice cream or that he's past it.

amacachi wrote: »

Aye, very little praise for a great drive in what wasn't the fastest car out there. I would give the BBC the benefit of the doubt that it was due to Fisi's result, but it's just been going on too long.

Ah.
You wont see any critisicism from me.
I think Kimi drove out of his skin today
Well deserved win and also I am delighted it was Kimi got it and not Massa or whoever his teammate might have been.
You would find it hard to believe how many moaners on the scuderia forum are doing nothing but wishing kimi was gone and Alonso in instead of him.

Kevski

Fabio wrote: »

Congrats to the real winner...Force India and Fisi! He has a real chance at Monza if he stays with them for it and as Eddie Jordan pointed out on BBC, if he's thinking long term then he should reject any calls from Ferrari cos he ain't gonna be in their plans next year.

The real winner? Kimi won in a car which was not the fastest on track. He is nothing other than the real winner.

amacachi wrote: »

Don't know why the stewards didn't look into what Kimi at the start. It's a tactic I use in video games sometimes and even in that there's a penalty. :pac:

I dunno, I think it was a fair defense of his position. He was still carrying a fair amount of speed so I dont think cutting in front of Kubica unsporting of dangerous.

amacachi

Kevski wrote: »

I dunno, I think it was a fair defense of his position. He was still carrying a fair amount of speed so I dont think cutting in front of Kubica unsporting of dangerous.

Off the top of my head I think he was about 4th arriving at the first corner. If so then he definitely gained an advantage by running off track.

Slutmonkey57b

Whitmarsh was very complimentary of Kimi again in the F1 forum, conspiracy alert. The BBC guys also made the point that while Fisi may have deserved the win, and done well, Kimi got past him and that was that. Even if you catch him, you're not going to pass him, Kers or not. Kimi and Ferrari deserved the win but whether it changes anything next year about Kimi's seat? I still think that all hinges on Massa's recovery, not Alonso's move.

Kevski

amacachi wrote: »

Off the top of my head I think he was about 4th arriving at the first corner. If so then he definitely gained an advantage by running off track.

Apologies, i thought you were referring to when Kimi rejoined after going off at les combes. Going the long way round at la source just seems to be something that goes unpunished in F1. Although its not always an advantage - Hamilton did it in 2007 and then Alonso got him through Eau Rouge!

Slutmonkey57b

Double conspiracy theory: Both Whitmarsh and Haug congratulated Kimi on a great drive in the official post-race team comments. Where's a man in a cloak playing an organ when you need one?

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

Off the top of my head I think he was about 4th arriving at the first corner. If so then he definitely gained an advantage by running off track.

Nothing about the track being --- Longer--- Dirtier--abd getting the tyres cleaned off after Kimi had to go wide

Biro

I know he had Kers to contend with, but I was surprised at how little Fisi did to defend his position after the safety car. usually they'd back the pack up and unexpectedly nail the throttle to try to gain a couple of tenths. Fisi didn't seem to bother. Great race by him though, and Kimi, and Vettel.

vectra

Biro wrote: »

I know he had Kers to contend with, but I was surprised at how little Fisi did to defend his position after the safety car. usually they'd back the pack up and unexpectedly nail the throttle to try to gain a couple of tenths. Fisi didn't seem to bother. Great race by him though, and Kimi, and Vettel.

It wouldnt matter and Fisdi knew this.
Kimi would have nailed him through Eau Rouge
Fisi was concentrating on bringing it home Id say

Biro

vectra wrote: »

It wouldnt matter and Fisdi knew this.
Kimi would have nailed him through Eau Rouge
Fisi was concentrating on bringing it home Id say

I completely disagree. Once both were back to full race speed Fisi actually closed the gap on Kimi. Look at the second pitstops. If Fisi had kept the lead after the safety car, he had enough speed to keep ahead of the Ferrari. Credit where credit is due, that Force India was a slightly quicker car than the Ferrari around that track. It's great to see a team like that on the podium, and here's hoping they'll have many more.

vectra

Biro wrote: »

I completely disagree. Once both were back to full race speed Fisi actually closed the gap on Kimi. Look at the second pitstops. If Fisi had kept the lead after the safety car, he had enough speed to keep ahead of the Ferrari. Credit where credit is due, that Force India was a slightly quicker car than the Ferrari around that track. It's great to see a team like that on the podium, and here's hoping they'll have many more.

I agree,
Fisi and Force India were fast.
But Kimi was dropping him left right and center in sector one on each and every lap.
Sector 2 is the only place Fisi was quicker

BoardsRanger

ODD-JOB wrote: »

Yup....... Brundle thought it was planned too !
He carried a quicker pace all along that straight from la source !

He did nearly a carbon copy last year ( see video below). And fair play to him, he knew he would get away with it and knew it was a safe place to be to avoid contact. That said, i did withdraw my winnings on him straight away incase there was a post race investigation!:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzSVxw4TA5E

EvilMonkey

Biro wrote: »

I know he had Kers to contend with, but I was surprised at how little Fisi did to defend his position after the safety car. usually they'd back the pack up and unexpectedly nail the throttle to try to gain a couple of tenths. Fisi didn't seem to bother. Great race by him though, and Kimi, and Vettel.

I dont think even Fisi realised the Force India was faster at that time and was concentrating on getting a podium finish.

BoardsRanger wrote: »

He did nearly a carbon copy last year ( see video below). And fair play to him, he knew he would get away with it and knew it was a safe place to be to avoid contact. That said, i did withdraw my winnings on him straight away incase there was a post race investigation!:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzSVxw4TA5E

He knew when to to get the grip too, compare him to Button doing the same thing. They will have to stick some rumple strips or something out there!

Iridium

Phibsboro wrote: »

Go on Fisi! Button looked wrecked afterwards, compare him to Ham who hardly seemed to have broken a sweat.

BTW - anyone know what that song was that BBC played out with?

c

I don't have a recording of the qualifying show to go back and check, but if I remember correctly the song they used was The Pretender, by the Foo Fighters.

kierank01

larry1 wrote: »

Various Drivers On Board footage of the start

http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/7812/belgium-grand-prix-2009-start-mayhem-on-boards

Cheers, but I don't understand why there is no footage (anywhere) from Alguersuari or Grosjean. so we could see the crashes from behind.

EvilMonkey

kierank01 wrote: »

Cheers, but I don't understand why there is no footage (anywhere) from Alguersuari or Grosjean. so we could see the crashes from behind.

Yeah i wouldn't mind seeing those too.

Slutmonkey57b

kierank01 wrote: »

Cheers, but I don't understand why there is no footage (anywhere) from Alguersuari or Grosjean. so we could see the crashes from behind.

Not all the cars have cameras, FOM choose before the race who's going to carry cameras and who won't. Misses opportunity, like you say. The more I rewatch footage the clearer it is that Button was the one cutting across into Grosjean's line. On the other hand, the new boy shouldn't be there to make gung ho moves up the field in his second race.

vectra wrote: »

Nothing about the track being --- Longer--- Dirtier--abd getting the tyres cleaned off after Kimi had to go wide

Mid-race, he'd gain no advantage, as others would be on the racing line at full tilt. Off the start, however, when everyone else is in traffic, dodging, getting up to speed, he has a clear path of track, can whack on his KERS if he needs to, and gain a massive advantage. I don't think there's a conspiracy theory, but time and time again you can see how the stewards simply aren't being consistant.

Slutmonkey57b

You're right the roll hoop cameras are mandatory, the others are all optional.

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

, however, when everyone else is in traffic, dodging, getting up to speed, he has a clear path of track, can whack on his KERS if he needs to, and gain a massive advantage. I don't think there's a conspiracy theory, but time and time again you can see how the stewards simply aren't being consistant.

Use the Kers on a dirty loose surface..??
I dont think so,, Unless you want to go drifting instead of racing

rua1972

As far as i know, the tarmac in the run off area is different than the tarmac on the circuit. Less grippy, so there should be no advantage using the run off area. I guess Kimi had to back off to avoid the cars in front or take the escape road. The last option clearly worked in his favour. With all the pushing and shuffing in the opening lap is seems to be aloud, he wasn't the only one using the escape route.

Slutmonkey57b

Any detriment in the quality of the tarmac in the run off area is more than made up for by the fact that you have clear space in front of you to accelerate in. You may very well be slower than if you were driving on the racing line on a clear track, but you are still going faster than the cars jockying for position coming off the start line.

amacachi

Plus the fact that you carry a lot more speed through the corner by taking a wide line. Just look at the speed differential between Kimi and the BMW on the way into turn 1.

vectra

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Any detriment in the quality of the tarmac in the run off area is more than made up for by the fact that you have clear space in front of you to accelerate in. You may very well be slower than if you were driving on the racing line on a clear track, but you are still going faster than the cars jockying for position coming off the start line.

So how come Button didnt make up places while going out there as well?

amacachi

vectra wrote: »

So how come Button didnt make up places while going out there as well?

It's not always better, it depends on how much speed you arrive at the corner with. If you're planning to do it you can carry way more speed into and through the corner. In Button's case it looks like he was just avoiding people so he got very little benefit, whereas Kimi steamed into the first corner.

Ghost Train

Ficus wrote: »

Every car is fitted with an onboard camera .
As to why they didnt show it, thats anyones guess.

I thought it used to be a case that some of the cameras were blanks, same weight but no camera. But maybe it is the case these days that they all have real cameras. Maybe they production company just keep back some of the footage, the onbaords they did show were pretty cool

Does look like Button could have given the renault a bit more room, Rubens was lucky nobody moved to the left as he came flying into the corner at the end of the straight

As for Kimi, he took a chance going out wide and it worked out, Button lost out by doing it, maybe next year there will be a new rule about it

vectra

amacachi wrote: »

It's not always better, it depends on how much speed you arrive at the corner with. If you're planning to do it you can carry way more speed into and through the corner. In Button's case it looks like he was just avoiding people so he got very little benefit, whereas Kimi steamed into the first corner.

Do I detect a bit of