The Students' Union & Abortion

Cantab.

Regarding the SU website. I see they're still peddling abortion services. I understand the SU will even pay for your abortion if you cry hard enough.

Señor Juárez

Cantab. wrote: »

Regarding the SU website. I see they're still peddling abortion services. I understand the SU will even pay for your abortion if you cry hard enough.

You are an anti-choicer I take it? Please take your forceful opinions elsewhere.

Cantab.

Señor Juárez wrote: »

You are an anti-choicer I take it? Please take your forceful opinions elsewhere.

I'd prefer if the SU did tbqh.

Cantab.

I see they also have the number of the "Irish Family Planning Association" listed. In theory, I like the idea of an SU, but that's one step too far.

Señor Juárez

Posting 3 times in a row is a Nazi Druid trick.

KNEW IT

Cantab.

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

I have to admit my first thought was "where is the token hot female welfare officer".

You mean the one who sends you down to the end of O'Connell Street when you've a bump in your tummy?

Boston

AlanSparrowhawk has never been pregnant.

AlanSparrowhawk

She was very attractive though. And i also question whether ANY young pregnant undergraduate's first point of call was their local SU rep. Cantab. you make it sound like they were working off commission for the abortion clinic in Liverpool but do you have any evidence to suggest anyone even read their propaganda?

Cantab.

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

She was very attractive though. And i also question whether ANY young pregnant undergraduate's first point of call was their local SU rep. Cantab. you make it sound like they were working off commission for the abortion clinic in Liverpool but do you have any evidence to suggest anyone even read their propaganda?

It shouldn't be there in the first place. No right-minded moral person should pay the student union levies.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Have you got a better solution?

Unwanted pregnancy? Poke the ****er out with a clothes hanger.

Seriously, problem solved, everyone's happy. I don't know how even the most hardcore religious people can have a problem with this.

Kwekubo

Cantab. wrote: »

It shouldn't be there in the first place. No right-minded moral person should pay the student union levies.

The College Health Service doctors will put you in contact with the IFPA, Crisis Pregancy Agency et al. if they consider it an option in your case. Does that make the student registration fee immoral?

Señor Juárez

I dunno Cantab., I think an €8 abortion represents really good value for money.

Far cheaper than 9 months worth of condoms.

Cantab.

Kwekubo wrote: »

The College Health Service doctors will put you in contact with the IFPA, Crisis Pregancy Agency et al. if they consider it an option in your case. Does that make the student registration fee immoral?

Where et al. includes agencies such as Cura. If the students' union insist on being aggressively pro-abortion that's their prerogative, just don't expect me to pay for it.

AlanSparrowhawk

I agree with Cantab. the SU shouldn't flaunt the rules of the land like this. I've actually changed my whole opinion on abortion though and I've decided it should be accessible to women in Ireland in Ireland.

Boston

Cantab is actually right then it comes to the SU. They should be as neutral as possible rather then pushing one side over the other. It merely alienates sections of the student body.

Señor Juárez wrote: »

I dunno Cantab., I think an €8 abortion represents really good value for money.

Far cheaper than 9 months worth of condoms.

I thought you liked them prepubescent?

Mark200

Señor Juárez wrote: »

I dunno Cantab., I think an €8 abortion represents really good value for money.

Far cheaper than 9 months worth of condoms.

€8?? Serious? You should post that over in the Bargain Alerts forum.

Kwekubo

Boston wrote: »

Cantab is actually right then it comes to the SU. They should be as neutral as possible rather then pushing one side over the other. It merely alienates sections of the student body.

I see what you mean, and agree with it.

Pet

I don't see the problem - they include information about abortion AND adoption. And they don't gloss over the details of abortion, either. I think it's neutral, I didn't infer any "pushing" of abortion.

Cantab., do you simply object to the presence of information about abortion?

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Kwekubo wrote: »

I see what you mean, and agree with it.

Nah, that's bull****. You think they should be Fox style 'fair and balanced' and have a massive banner ad proclaiming the evils of abortion and the eternal damnation that awaits anyone who should go through with it?

If someone wants an abortion, there are certainly agencies that can help them with this decision. And if they're vehemently against the idea, these same agencies will probably be just as helpful.

Cantab./Boston's idea of neutral seems to be not showing anything at all that suggests condoning abortion.

Señor Juárez

It tends to always be the people on the anti-choice side that will label ANY information, be it two sided or sets of separated information for both sides, as taking a stance.

(insert anti-Catholic sentiment here)

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Señor Juárez wrote: »

It tends to always be the people on the anti-choice side that will label ANY information, be it two sided or sets of separated information for both sides, as taking a stance.

(insert anti-Catholic sentiment here)

Exactly...

"Here is the side that presents abortion as acceptable (and also presents other solutions as acceptable), so there's one side, now, unless we have a point of view that presents abortion as unspeakable evil, you're not being balanced"

Kwekubo

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

Nah, that's bull****. You think they should be Fox style 'fair and balanced' and have a massive banner ad proclaiming the evils of abortion and the eternal damnation that awaits anyone who should go through with it?

If someone wants an abortion, there are certainly agencies that can help them with this decision. And if they're vehemently against the idea, these same agencies will probably be just as helpful.

Cantab./Boston's idea of neutral seems to be not showing anything at all that suggests condoning abortion.

I didn't mean to suggest that the SU is biased in this regard, I'm just assuming good faith on the part of Cantab./Boston. I would be very angry with the SU Welfare Officer if he did not provide full access to information on abortion to people who come looking for it; in this regard I am quite happy to have the SU represent me.

AlanSparrowhawk

Should the ents officer direct people that are looking for a good time to local reliable drug dealer?

Señor Juárez

Hasn't there always been a rumormill to the effect that most ents officers are also coke dealers? :P

Thank god for the coke referendum so we can talk about such things!

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

AlanSparrowhawk wrote: »

Should the ents officer direct people that are looking for a good time to local reliable drug dealer?

Personally, I wouldn't see any problem with that at all.

Kwekubo wrote: »

I didn't mean to suggest that the SU is biased in this regard, I'm just assuming good faith on the part of Cantab./Boston

Poor assumption based on prior experiences.

Boston

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

Cantab./Boston's idea of neutral seems to be not showing anything at all that suggests condoning abortion.

Thats not my idea.

Bartron Prime

Man did THAT go off-topic fast.

The SU is not strictly 'neutral' in this area. Following a referendum many years ago, policy from which can obviously be overturned by another referendum, TCDSU is pro-choice.

However, this takes the form of presenting information, it is not allowed or desired to encourage a student to take a particular course of action. It simply is of the kind where if while discussing options regarding an unplanned pregnancy, a student asks for abortion information, the Welfare Officer will provide it.

It's a highly sensitive and emotionally fraught area so the advice is presented to those who want it, not 'forced' on people.

Students' Unions, like all representative organisations with political functions, are not neutral. However, its policy is dictated by its members. If a referendum overturned the policy and required one that was strictly anti-abortion, TCDSU would shift accordingly as would its website and the actions of its Sabbatical Officers.

I agree with the current policy but I am 'pro-choice'. I understand and respect the opinion of those who are anti-abortion but I believe it's perfectly valid that those who seek the information can be provided it. Those who have moral and ethical issues with abortion do not have to be given such information.

Bear in mind, consultations with the SU Welfare Officer are driven by the needs of each individual student.

Long story short: an SU can never be neutral as then it would be unable to campaign on any issue, take a stance on educational or support services or seek to achieve any measurable benefit for the students it represents. Its position is determined by its members through SU Council. The organisation has no inherent ideological bias; it is guided by those it represents and how they express themselves. Finally, TCDSU is 'pro-choice' but provides realistic information that highlights all aspects of that choice and only if that information is deemed to be appropriate in any given case.

Oh, and the website is quite good. Not enough information in the Education and College sections but that just needs a bit of time is all.

Boston

Pro-information was the stance last I heard. What specific referendum adopted the pro-choice stance.

shay_562

AlanSparrowhawk wrote:

Should the ents officer direct people that are looking for a good time to local reliable drug dealer?

No, but he can certainly point them towards Amsterdam. There's nothing illegal about travelling to England to get an abortion. Your analogy doesn't hold up.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Bartron Prime wrote: »

The SU is not strictly 'neutral' in this area. Following a referendum many years ago, policy from which can obviously be overturned by another referendum, TCDSU is pro-choice.

It's a highly sensitive and emotionally fraught area so the advice is presented to those who want it, not 'forced' on people.[...] Those who have moral and ethical issues with abortion do not have to be given such information.

Surely pro-choice logically is a neutral position. If you want information on abortion, you can get it. If you want information on other alternatives, such as keeping the baby, or having it put up for adoption, you can get that too. You won't be pushed in either direction.

Compare to either of the possible non-neutral positions, always pushing towards getting an abortion, or always saying you should not get an abortion.

Pro-choice on abortion is a neutral stance, how can people not understand this, they must be thick, thick, thick as planks.

AlanSparrowhawk

Boston wrote: »

Has ever had an abortion?

very childish