Eduardo faces a 2 match ban

pokerface_me

Uefa are looking at the incident according to sky sports news, if found guilty of diving he can be expected to recieve a 2 match ban at minimum...........good to see uefa clamp down early on this, might make for a better CL this year.

Mr Alan

They can't just pick & choose when to treat it as a bannable offence, it either is-and should be punished all the time, or isn't & should never be deemed a bannable offence.

Arsenal would have a right to feel very hard done by if he gets a ban for that.

Mars Bar

Mr Alan wrote: »

They can't just pick & choose when to treat it as a bannable offence, it either is-and should be punished all the time, or isn't & should never be deemed a bannable offence.

Arsenal would have a right to feel very hard done by if he gets a ban for that.

Why not start now? It's the beginning of the CL season after all. It puts down the boot straight away. Personally I'm glad (not coz I'm a United fan, I hated seeing Ronaldo do it too).

jaykay74

mars bar wrote: »

Why not start now? It's the beginning of the CL season after all. It puts down the boot straight away. Personally I'm glad (not coz I'm a United fan, I hated seeing Ronaldo do it too).

you can't just start now. It needs to be introduced and communicated to the clubs before the start of a competition, not added in after a high profile incident.

Paul Tergat

Mr Alan wrote: »

They can't just pick & choose when to treat it as a bannable offence, it either is-and should be punished all the time, or isn't & should never be deemed a bannable offence.

Arsenal would have a right to feel very hard done by if he gets a ban for that.

Spot on I think, no way can they ban him and then not ban every single other player who dives. Its such a tough area for them to try and police though. Interpretation can come into it sometimes (albeit last nights was pretty clear). They will be giving themselves a lot more work if they apply this to everyone which they should in the interest of fairness.

_blank_

Mr Alan wrote: »

They can't just pick & choose when to treat it as a bannable offence, it either is-and should be punished all the time, or isn't & should never be deemed a bannable offence.

Arsenal would have a right to feel very hard done by if he gets a ban for that.

Says a fan of a club who have benefited from a swift rule change by UEFA. :rolleyes:

pokerface_me

I think is brilliant they are looking at it early, clamp down on it, and if people want to cheat they will be found out and puinished, the ref must have put it in his report for UEFA to be looking at it. He should get a 2 match ban and fined 2 weeks wages, make everyone else think twice about jumping on the ground.

I'ts for the good of the game i love.

Gary ITR

I agree with Mr.Alan here. It's a classic case of shutting the gate after the horse has bolted

greendom

Where's the consistency ? A yellow card offence if spotted during a match cannot turn into a 2 match ban if picked up on retrospecitvely.

Mars Bar

jaykay74 wrote: »

you can't just start now. It needs to be introduced and communicated to the clubs before the start of a competition, not added in after a high profile incident.

But why would they need to be warned?!
If they have any sportsmanship at all, they wouldn't be diving! Surely they have been thought that since the day they started kicking a football.
A quick ruling that comes as a shock to the system will be doing no harm, make them shake in their little diving boots I say!

Paul Tergat

pokerface_me wrote: »

the ref must have put it in his report for UEFA to be looking at it.

While I agree that diving needs to be cut out I hate this situation. Why should it be the ones in the report, and what exactly does the refs report say "think he may have dived here, take a look at it" (i genuinely dont know what they put in their reports).

8-10

Where's the flip side though? Jovetic got a yellow for simulation last night if anyone was watching the Fiorentina v Lisbon game when replays showed the defender cut across his path and the commentators agreed that it could have been a legitimate penalty.

Are UEFA going to retrospectively rescind the card?

also:

Speaking after the Arsenal match, Celtic defender Glenn Loovens also offered his thoughts on Eduardo and his penalty claim.
"I don't think he even speaks English so there was no point talking to him," said the Dutch centre-half.

How long has he lived and worked in the UK and he can't speak the language?

Mitch Connor

Des wrote: »

Says a fan of a club who have benefited from a swift rule change by UEFA. :rolleyes:

lol - it was in the back of my mind that I had made that argument before (rules need to be laid out before the comp starts and stuck to) but couldn't remember what I had been talking about.

Mr Alan

Des wrote: »

Says a fan of a club who have benefited from a swift rule change by UEFA. :rolleyes:

ha ha good effort Des.

mars bar wrote: »

Why not start now? It's the beginning of the CL season after all. It puts down the boot straight away. Personally I'm glad (not coz I'm a United fan, I hated seeing Ronaldo do it too).

If you start now, then what Uefa should do is release a statement saying that in future diving will be deemed a bannable offence & can be punished retrospectively. Not decide that they are starting now, and only back dating the charge for Eduardo. I'm sure there was dives in other matches around Europe last night, are they all picking up bans as well?

jaykay74

mars bar wrote: »

But why would they need to be warned?!
If they have any sportsmanship at all, they wouldn't be diving! Surely they have been thought that since the day they started kicking a football.
A quick ruling that comes as a shock to the system will be doing no harm, make them shake in their little diving boots I say!

afaik diving/simulation is currently a yellow card offense. Now suddenly if the ref misses it it is a 2 match ban instead of a yellow card. If thats what happening then its a farce.

gimmick

Farcical. Get over it. Players dive all the time. In fact, almost every team in world football has a diver in their ranks. Build a bridge and all that its tiresome at this stage.

Paul Tergat

gimmick wrote: »

Farcical. Get over it. Players dive all the time. In fact, almost every team in world football has a diver in their ranks. Build a bridge and all that its tiresome at this stage.

What? Would you not rather see it removed altogether? Its cheating! Just because every team may have one player who does it then it's not just a case of ah well we should just accept it.

_blank_

gimmick wrote: »

Farcical. Get over it. Players dive all the time. In fact, almost every team in world football has a diver in their ranks. Build a bridge and all that its tiresome at this stage.

Shels don't.

greendom

8-10 wrote: »

How long has he lived and worked in the UK and he can't speak the language?

A) Loovens isn't his English teacher so isn't really in a position to comment.

If true it doesn't seem to affect his footballing ability

C) Some people find speaking a foreign language more difficult than others

D) What has it got to do with the price of fish?

Bit of a nonsense all round really

pokerface_me

Can't believe some Football supporters here would support a CHEAT, i say throw the book at him, its embarrasing to look at week in week out.

greendom

pokerface_me wrote: »

Can't believe some Football supporters here would support a CHEAT, i say throw the book at him, its embarrasing to look at week in week out.

I prefer to see the good in everyone

gimmick

p_larkin99 wrote: »

What? Would you not rather see it removed altogether? At its most common form its cheating!

It is an unfortunate facet of the game. Punish it at the time, and only at the time. If we are to be punishing things retrospectively, I doubt there would be many players without infractions against thjeir names for fouling in some way - like shirt pulling as a prime example.

SantryRed

Des wrote: »

Shels don't.

That's because Bisto never has the ball in the box

Mitch Connor

pokerface_me wrote: »

Can't believe some Football supporters here would support a CHEAT, i say throw the book at him, its embarrasing to look at week in week out.

Its not a case of supporting what he did. It is a case of being against Uefa acting in an unprecidented manner. banning a player for diving is not in the CL rules as far as I know, and I don't remember anyone getting done for it last year.

Also, at worst he should receive a retrospective yellow card (which i would still not agree with) as a yellow card is all he would have received in the game had the ref spotted it.

I don't think you'd see anyone side against Uefa if they were proposing new measures to deal with divers (for me, as long as it is proportional - a 1 game ban at worst imo) starting from now.

I simply don't think uefa should be writing a rule book in order to throw it at Eduardo now.

Paul Tergat

gimmick wrote: »

It is an unfortunate facet of the game. Punish it at the time, and only at the time. If we are to be punishing things retrospectively, I doubt there would be many players without infractions against thjeir names for fouling in some way - like shirt pulling as a prime example.

Yeah but theres always human error and so it can't always be punished at the time. Im all up for removing diving completely and obviously would prefer the punishment to benefit the team who has been cheated (i.e. during the same game) but as this is not always possible I would prefer the player to be punished at a latter stage than not at all. It has to be done with consistency though and thats the main issue for me. Everyone should face the same treatment.

_blank_

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't think you'd see anyone side against Uefa if they were proposing new measures to deal with divers (for me, as long as it is proportional - a 1 game ban at worst imo) starting from now.

Second last group game, player dives, wins the match with the penalty, and his team go through.

Next game is a non-event due to them playing the bottom club.

A one game ban is not enough imo.

Mars Bar

jaykay74 wrote: »

afaik diving/simulation is currently a yellow card offense. Now suddenly if the ref misses it it is a 2 match ban instead of a yellow card. If thats what happening then its a farce.

Yes and apparently a yellow card isn't threatening enough to stamp it out...it's still happening left right and centre...

SantryRed

pokerface_me wrote: »

Can't believe some Football supporters here would support a CHEAT, i say throw the book at him, its embarrasing to look at week in week out.

Do you support Celtic?

greendom

and apparently a yellow card isn't enough to stop them diving.

Or fouling for that matter

Mars Bar

greendom wrote: »

Or fouling for that matter

But fouling isn't cheating is it? When you are fouling, you are being disadvantageous against yourself. Cheating your own team maybe...

Diving for a penalty however, is cheating.

Eire-Dearg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm

Uefa to review Eduardo incident
European football's governing body is to investigate an alleged dive by Arsenal's Eduardo during the Champions League 3-1 qualifier win over Celtic.

If found guilty of simulation, the striker could face a two-match ban.

Uefa president Michel Platini believes additional assistant referees behind each goal line would combat diving.

He said: "One day players will give up simulating because refs will see them. I am convinced that you have referees nearby, then you will stop this."

Scottish FA chief executive Gordon Smith has called for the Brazil-born Croatia forward to be banned over the penalty incident at the Emirates.

"Last night Eduardo showed disrespect to the game by his actions," he said.

"We have shown courage to use retrospective punishment when it comes to simulation. I'd urge Uefa to do so."

There appeared to be no contact between Eduardo and Celtic goalkeeper Artur Boruc but referee Manuel Gonzalez still gave a penalty midway through the first half, which Eduardo converted.

A Uefa spokesman told BBC Sport its disciplinary unit will study the incident, and confirmed the organisation's rules do allow the possibility of retrospective action.

If charged and found guilty, Eduardo could face sanctions up to a two-match ban in European competition.

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger admitted afterwards the penalty award was dubious, although he said it was not clear his player had dived.

Mitch Connor

Des wrote: »

Second last group game, player dives, wins the match with the penalty, and his team go through.

Next game is a non-event due to them playing the bottom club.

A one game ban is not enough imo.

What is the punishment for stopping a goal scoring op? Is it a 3 game ban or 1 game ban? (honest question)

Do you think the position of the dive should be taken into account? Player dives in the centre circle, 3 game ban?

Diving is a horrible aspect of football, but (imo) no worse than any of the other snide and sneaky cheating things that happen and don't get 3 game bans thrown down for. Such as John Terry's arms spread method of defending (ball to hand ref, couldn't move 'em out the way...) or the cynical fouls on the halfway line stopping a break. There are others too, obviously.

Maybe, if it is confined to the penalty area for 3 game bans, that wold be ok (with me, not that it matters!) I dunno.

Paleface

Des wrote: »

Second last group game, player dives, wins the match with the penalty, and his team go through.

Next game is a non-event due to them playing the bottom club.

A one game ban is not enough imo.

But you could say the same for any 1 match ban. Player one yellow card away from a one match ban, second last group game...etc.

Loomis

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Yeah but theres always human error and so it can't always be punished at the time. Im all up for removing diving completely and obviously would prefer the punishment to benefit the team who has been cheated (i.e. during the same game) but as this is not always possible I would prefer the player to be punished at a latter stage than not at all. It has to be done with consistency though and thats the main issue for me. Everyone should face the same treatment.

True. The referee was looking directly at it and didn't have his view impeded yet still saw it as a penalty. How that is I've no idea.
That's just poor refereeing. Him and UEFA should acknowledge their mistakes rather than putting policies in place which prevent them from doing things retrospectively because doing so would mean they are fallible. The ridiculous policies they have in place gives the pretense that they did nothing wrong because nothing was done to later fix the issue.

greendom

mars bar wrote: »

But fouling isn't cheating is it? When you are fouling, you are being disadvantageous against yourself. Cheating your own team maybe...

Diving for a penalty however, is cheating.

Of course it's cheating, especially if you get away with it. What about shirt tugging; hauling someone down when they're past you and en route to goal - of course its cheating - exactly the same as diving, except with diving no one gets crippled.

thorbarry

Its pretty bad singling out one player that does it without warning. If UEFA came out and said at the start of the season that they would be introducing this system then fair enough.

But, on the other hand, if they do do this, and ban him for 3 games, it shows that they mean business. I'm an Arsenal fan and I would hate to see him get banned for 3 games, but if it helps stop cheating in the game (not just diving), and they stick to their guns and do it in every single game that it happens, I'm all for it. Fair enough Eduardo is being made an example of, but if it helps stop this type of crap in the game then I suppose its a good thing.

*Spanish League beware

Mars Bar

greendom wrote: »

Of course it's cheating, especially if you get away with it. What about shirt tugging; hauling someone down when they're past you and en route to goal - of course its cheating - exactly the same as diving, except with diving no one gets crippled.

Well yeah it's unfair if they get away with it. Duh.
However, if a player tugs another players jersey and the free is given against him. Brilliant. He gets his punishment and if the other team get a goal, his tough poop. He cheated his own team...
If that player was last man back and took him out, then it is usually pretty clear and they usually get a red anyway.

But diving is getting another player/team wrongly sanctioned for something they didn't do. It is morally wrong! What would you have said if Boruc got sent off last night for not even touching Eduardo?!

I'm rambling and getting confusted here!

ArmaniJeanss

Its not really a precedent, in that they have retrospectively fined players for simulating before.


Rivaldo.
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/06/05/1022982720138.html

greendom

mars bar wrote: »

Well yeah it's unfair if they get away with it. Duh.
However, if a player tugs another players jersey and the free is given against him. Brilliant. He gets his punishment and if the other team get a goal, his tough poop. He cheated his own team...
If that player was last man back and took him out, then it is usually pretty clear and they usually get a red anyway.

But diving is getting another player/team wrongly sanctioned for something they didn't do. It is morally wrong! What would you have said if Boruc got sent off last night for not even touching Eduardo?!

I'm rambling and getting confusted here!

I see what you're saying but that is the same for all offences carried out by a defender as opposed to an attacker. If a defender is caught then the opposition may get a goal scoring opportunity. This will never happen if an attacker is caught doing something wrong.

FearDark

What a load of bollocks.

Drogba, Ronaldo... recognised cheats and divers, repeatedly offending and nothing done about it.

Eduardo goes down lastnight, there was contact from Boruc, redicilous, Arsenal arent a cheating team, UEFA what a joke.

noodler

jaykay74 wrote: »

afaik diving/simulation is currently a yellow card offense. Now suddenly if the ref misses it it is a 2 match ban instead of a yellow card. If thats what happening then its a farce.

Obivously the fact it got them a peno that finished the tie (it was already fiished realistically but final nail and all that) is what makes this particularly worse. Diving to accrue a significant advantage.

His celebration to the camera last night was disgraceful.

Mossy Monk

The flood gates have been opened. Expect calls for UEFA to look into every single thing that goes on in a game.

noodler

greendom wrote: »

That's in very bad taste tbh. His cheated last night, fair enough but to wish that on anyone is uncalled for imho.

Thats fair enough.

All the sympathy he got and all the hate Taylor got after the challenge though with Wenger and others calling for him to be banned as long as Eduardo is injured left a serious sour taste in the mouth.

Moreso now that he has recovered just to act like a clown.


To the above, I think they could (to begin with) stick to dealing with instances of diving which actually fool the ref into giving a decisive (but incorrect decision). That opens up the whole "if is wrong some of the time it should be wrong all of the time" argument but I would rather see some action taken than none.

WillieCocker

mars bar wrote: »

But fouling isn't cheating is it? When you are fouling, you are being disadvantageous against yourself. Cheating your own team maybe...

Diving for a penalty however, is cheating.

:pac:
Of course it is cheating......the ball is the object not another players leg/face/ankle.

Evil_Clown

noodler wrote: »

if his other leg breaks I wouldn't mind.

I and many other fans would please keep your retarded statements to yourself

pokerface_me

Noodler youre bang out of order man, nobody wishes to see anyone get hurt or break anything.

Back to the game someone asked if i was a celtic supporter, answer is yes Arsenal were far superior over the 2 legs the result isn't the issue.

What is an issue is someone who cheats, the guy has got the talent he doesn't need to cheat. I remember a scottish game international i think a player dived and got a peno, he was found guilty afterwards be UEFA and banned must google it.

Also with wenger's dodgy vision i wonder did he see the incident, would like to see Uefa come down hard on eduardo and try iradicate from our sport.

kippy

Mr Alan wrote: »

They can't just pick & choose when to treat it as a bannable offence, it either is-and should be punished all the time, or isn't & should never be deemed a bannable offence.

Arsenal would have a right to feel very hard done by if he gets a ban for that.

Maybe they are starting from now. Just like the offside rule had to start from a point in time?

A few high profile players/teams getting bans is exactly what the game needs to get rid of this cheating once and for all.
At the start of almost every season they try to set a precedent, I think last season it was the "respect" campaign, which was a load of toss really as refs werent tough enough on players.

Mars Bar

greendom wrote: »

I see what you're saying but that is the same for all offences carried out by a defender as opposed to an attacker. If a defender is caught then the opposition may get a goal scoring opportunity. This will never happen if an attacker is caught doing something wrong.

This is definitely an agree to disagree situation!
Had fun debating though!

Mr Alan

kippy wrote: »

Maybe they are starting from now. Just like the offside rule had to start from a point in time?

yea, but the offside rule didn't start mid match without any warning of its implementation!

i'm sure the rule was discussed beforehand & a date for it to be implemented was agreed.

_blank_

kippy wrote: »

Maybe they are starting from now. Just like the offside rule had to start from a point in time?

Hang on a second.

Do you think that the offside rule was introduced on some random saturday a third of the way through the season, or do you reckon it was introduced before the start of a competition, then tweaked and moulded into what we have now, with every step along the way being introduced at sensible times?

kippy wrote: »

A few high profile players/teams getting bans is exactly what the game needs to get rid of this cheating once and for all.

This I agree with.

But you cannot introduce a rule today then retroactively apply it to only those cases that suit you.

If a rule is introduced and applied to Eduardo, it will have to be applied to EVERY SINGLE instance of diving that has happened this season, at least.

kippy

Des wrote: »

Hang on a second.

Do you think that the offside rule was introduced on some random saturday a third of the way through the season, or do you reckon it was introduced before the start of a competition, then tweaked and moulded into what we have now, with every step along the way being introduced at sensible times?




This I agree with.

But you cannot introduce a rule today then retroactively apply it to only those cases that suit you.

If a rule is introduced and applied to Eduardo, it will have to be applied to EVERY SINGLE instance of diving that has happened this season, at least.

Was there or was there not a precedence? I believe there was, and it also states in the rules that this type of thing is against the rules of the game. Its always been there, just maybe not enforced as it should have been. The rule was applied to that guy that played against Scotland but hasnt been applied since. About time it was applied again.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/uefa-review-eduardo-incident-424114.html

Personally, I want to see him banned for 2 games and the same thing to happen all divers in PL and CL games this season. Stamp it out.
People who cheat as blatently as Eduardo did last night and other do on a more consistent basis deserve NO sympathy.
And as for those making if out to be similiar to defenders who intentionally foul, well its a completely different type of thing.

As I said on the celtic/arsenal match thread, I really dont want to see diving get down to all levels of the game, the only way to stop it is to get rid of it from the top level and this is the best way to do it.