Eduardo faces a 2 match ban

Wreck

It's actually amazing just how much attention this is getting. I really do hope that UEFA and or FIFA finally make a real attempt to stamp out diving in the game, but retrospectively banning Eduardo would be just as unfair as the penalty being awarded in the first place.

PHB

If this is the start of something they intend to do, great. If it isn't, I think its bull****.

kippy

Wreck wrote: »

It's actually amazing just how much attention this is getting. I really do hope that UEFA and or FIFA finally make a real attempt to stamp out diving in the game, but retrospectively banning Eduardo would be just as unfair as the penalty being awarded in the first place.

As I said in another thread.
There are a number of reasons it is getting a lot of attention.
1. The player himself is not known of diving. He's had the sympathy of the public for the past year or more over his broken leg and people find it surprising that he resorted to cheating.
2. Arsenal, the "footballing team", shouldnt have to resort to this. Granted Eboue is also known for it but its not THAT common with them.
3. It's a relatively high profile game. The goal was game over for Celtic.
4. The smile/celebration from Eduardo and the absolute bull spouted by Arsene afterwards.
5. Maybe people are sick to deadth of this kind of fairying around by "Professional" footballers and dont want to see it spread elsewhere.

How do you make that out that banning him for diving would be as unfair as giving the penalty?
Has it not happened before, is there nothing in the rules about it?

thorbarry

kippy wrote: »

and the absolute bull spouted by Arsene afterwards.

I was reading an article with Wenger a couple weeks back, cant remember where it was. Basically he says when he sees his player commit a foul, or in this case cheating, he will always do his best to protect the player when asked about it, but say something to them one on one. You will see most manager do the same, have You ever seen Ferguson admit that a player dived or fouled another player?

kippy

thorbarry wrote: »

I was reading an article with Wenger a couple weeks back, cant remember where it was. Basically he says when he sees his player commit a foul, or in this case cheating, he will always do his best to protect the player when asked about it, but say something to them one on one. You will see most manager do the same, have You ever seen Ferguson admit that a player dived or fouled another player?

I'll use the same one I used on the match thread in response to that.
Do you really think if managers "privately" scolded/gave out to/fined/told their players never to dive, we'd have such consistent divers as Drogba, Ronaldo et al?
No, I didnt think so.

Mars Bar

thorbarry wrote: »

I was reading an article with Wenger a couple weeks back, cant remember where it was. Basically he says when he sees his player commit a foul, or in this case cheating, he will always do his best to protect the player when asked about it, but say something to them one on one. You will see most manager do the same, have You ever seen Ferguson admit that a player dived or fouled another player?

Just last week Benitez agreed it was a penalty against Gerrard...

Harpy

thorbarry wrote: »

I was reading an article with Wenger a couple weeks back, cant remember where it was. Basically he says when he sees his player commit a foul, or in this case cheating, he will always do his best to protect the player when asked about it, but say something to them one on one. You will see most manager do the same, have You ever seen Ferguson admit that a player dived or fouled another player?

i agree that most managers will try to protect their players.. but wenger is in a class of his own when it comes to not seein things to be fair.. fergurson and benitez will say it is or isn't a peno when its pretty obvious..where as wenger just doesn't see anything..

back On topic i don't think they should ban Eduardo but should make a rule now and lay it out for future incidents if they are serious about getting rid of this diving.

noodler

Evil_Clown wrote: »

I and many other fans would please keep your retarded statements to yourself

Ah the easiest thanks on a post you will ever recieve!

You're the Arsenal fan who reckon the SFA president is out of line in calling for an Eduardo ban then eh?


What do you propose? Turning a blind eye like your manager does?

Also I am sure you meant "I and many other fans would appreciate if you would please keep your retarded statements to yourself"

mars bar wrote: »

Just last week Benitez agreed it was a penalty against Gerrard...

Like he had a choice in fairness.

Mars Bar

noodler wrote: »

Ah the easiest thanks on a post you will ever recieve!

You're the Arsenal fan who reckon the SFA president is out of line in calling for an Eduardo ban then eh?


What do you propose? Turning a blind eye like your manager does?

Also I am sure you meant "I and many other fans would appreciate if you would please keep your retarded statements to yourself"







Like he had a choice in fairness.

And Wegner did? He looks as big a twat as Eduardo does if he is going to try and defend what he did...

Pepe LeFrits

kippy wrote: »

As I said in another thread.
There are a number of reasons it is getting a lot of attention.
1. The player himself is not known of diving. He's had the sympathy of the public for the past year or more over his broken leg and people find it surprising that he resorted to cheating.
2. Arsenal, the "footballing team", shouldnt have to resort to this. Granted Eboue is also known for it but its not THAT common with them.
3. It's a relatively high profile game. The goal was game over for Celtic.
4. The smile/celebration from Eduardo and the absolute bull spouted by Arsene afterwards.
5. Maybe people are sick to deadth of this kind of fairying around by "Professional" footballers and dont want to see it spread elsewhere.

6. It was a dive by a foreign player against a British team.

I've seen equally blatent dives decide bigger games and receive far less attention.

Wreck

mars bar wrote: »

And Wegner did? He looks as big a twat as Eduardo does if he is going to try and defend what he did...

Wenger has stated that it wasn't a penalty, what more do you want? He isn't going to condemn one of his own players for something like this in public, and neither would any other manager.

amacachi

Wreck wrote: »

Wenger has stated that it wasn't a penalty, what more do you want? He isn't going to condemn one of his own players for something like this in public, and neither would any other manager.

Totally agree, can't see any managers saying any more than that in a similar situation.


Poor show from Eduardo, no doubt, but rules are rules.

gosplan

BBC Sport 24/10/04 wrote:

But United did threaten, with Heinze heading wide, and they took the lead when Rooney earned a penalty after a foul by Campbell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05ttK_ThHXc ...around 36 seconds

BBC Sport last night wrote:

Eduardo was the central figure when Arsenal did score after 28 minutes - and he was very much the villain in the eyes of Celtic's travelling fans when he tumbled theatrically as he went around Boruc in the area.

That's just samples from the pretty level-headed BBC because I can access their archives. I shudder to think what a contrast of the SUN pages would be like.

Anyway, he can't be banned, UFEA are making noises because the English media joke are making noise and the conversation is bollocks to be honest.

The Muppet

Theres "diving" where the player goes down when no contact is made , thats cheating and should be punished. Then there's "diving" where slight contact is made and the player goes down. This is not balck and white as its impossible to dertermine the effect and weight of the actaul contact. That's not cheating IMO and would be very difficult to legislate against.

Morf

Firstly I was disappointed to see Eduardo dive last night.

I do however think quite a few people are going overboard on this thread. Diving is terrible, i can't defend it. It is endemic is Italy and Spain, it is becoming more and more common in English football.

We've seen this before, we've been annoyed by this before, why is it suddenly the time to portray Eduardo as some some of hate figure? He's just a footballer. As we know football players aren't generally the most world-wise people

So feel free to vent your anger as much as you like about how you despise diving but lets not pick on a single player for a single incident just because it was a high-profile match that knocked a well supported club in Ireland.

I could go off on a long treatise about how goalkeepers sliding in with their body is a significant danger for a player and sometime they lift their legs to avoid injury but i doubt you would have much time for that nor would i consider it acceptable in this situation.

Ok rant over. Go back to calling him a horrible cheat because he's a foreign diver and Boruc is obviously much better than him being Catholic and a Celtic player.

SlickRic

awful to see him dive.

but to ban him now would be a farce.

set a rule, then follow through. to be fair, it's the only logical course of action if they're going to make a precedent. you cannot just set one with Eduardo & Arsenal being the only ones to suffer. it'd be ludicrous.

seriously.

Pal

SlickRic wrote: »

awful to see him dive.

but to ban him now would be a farce.

.

agree.

reverse the result as punishment.

that would put a stop to it quick enough.

OPENROAD

Can anyone recall the Gerrard penalty against Sheff utd a couple of seasons ago I think in the 1-1 draw, what was the story with that, didn't Gerrard go down without any contact but an argument was made that their may been have intention, was this the case, I can't recall, if so does this open up a whole grey area.

Wreck

Pal wrote: »

reverse the result as punishment.

that would put a stop to it quick enough.

You should get a petition or something together, I think this is one of the best ideas ever. I can really see UEFA going for it, along with stoning players for shirt pulling and banning clubs for handballs.

Sarcasm maybe the lowest form of wit, but it's still not as stupid as this suggestion.

Frisbee

If Arsenal had have been playing CSKA or Dynamo Kiev would we have this thread?

Simple answer is, No.

I in no way condone what Eduardo did last night. I even received a text from another Boardsie while watching the game saying "dirty cheats" and I fully agree with him. I was watching the game with my best mate who is also an Arsenal fan and we were both embarrassed by what we had just seen.

However, if Eduardo receives a ban for this then well then I'll fully expect UEFA to dish out two match bans for every single dive performed in every single game from here on out.

You can't pick and choose who to ban for offences like this purely because it was against a Bristish Club who decided to kick up a fuss

TonyD79

His real punishment is that he will find it hard to win a penalty now! Would be just rewards if he doesnt get a clear cut peno in a very crucial game later on in the season! Refs should be able to use video technology for these games its a joke at this stage.

Big Ears

The Muppet wrote: »

Theres "diving" where the player goes down when no contact is made , thats cheating and should be punished. Then there's "diving" where slight contact is made and the player goes down. This is not balck and white as its impossible to dertermine the effect and weight of the actaul contact. That's not cheating IMO and would be very difficult to legislate against.

Well it is cheating and it isn't cheating(depending on the case) but your right that type of thing can't be legislated. Blatant dives where we can be 100% sure the guy dived however can be and I feel UEFA/FIFA/FA/FAI/every football assocation going should be cracking down on it hard.

Players caught diving retrospectively should receive a 3 match ban, followed by a 5 man ban if they re-offend and a 6 match ban for each subsequent dive. Yes this is a hell of a lot harsher on those who aren't caught during the match and receive a yellow card. However during a game it's not just blatant diving that's punished and sometimes referees get it wrong.

If this was actually brought in and players started spending serious amounts of time on the sideline for their indiscretions it wouldn't be long before things start to change and football can go back to being a man's game rather than the pathetic stuff we often see today.

curry-muff

3 Match Ban is a bit harsh for diving, in this case people are suggesting it because it may or may not have hindered a clubs chances of qualifying for europe, could you honestly say a 3 match ban for diving if you are 3-0 up is fair, should probably start with fines if anything.

Smegball

I think they should make it a straight red card offence, probably more chance of stopping it then imo.

cson

Sin bin ftw

jank

Well where did this thread come from? 3 games into the new season and the Bull$hit starts already.

Look diving is a scourge on the modern game, Eduardo didn't do himself any favors but lets not kid ourselves that Celtic were actually going to win the game and progress at Arsenal's expense. It was your average dive nothing more nothing less. Wenger has said it was a dubious penalty, what more do you want, to publicy state that Eduardo is a diver... LOL

I would fully welcome a Uefa or FA panel that can review incidents after a match even if a ref has taken action on these incidents. This panel can then hand out punishment, etc .
But to all off a sudden make an example out of a player when there is no precedent set for these rulings is not a good way to change a culture. If Eduardo is given a ban then I would support it IF the same rules apply for all teams. Having the odd high profile token gesture is not fooling anyone.

Openroad had a good example there when Rooney dived to earn a penalty against Arsenal a few years ago. There is not one team in the EPL that has not a few of these incidents. Either one rule for all or no rule, its that simple.

As I said if Eduardo is banned then fine but please same rules and standards should apply for all teams. The dive itself wasn't even as clear cut as some others one can see week in week out.

Mods: Can we take "the cheat" out of the title, needless to say this can set a precedent for other threads and would just cause more hastle than its worth??

Big Ears

curry-muff wrote: »

3 Match Ban is a bit harsh for diving, in this case people are suggesting it because it may or may not have hindered a clubs chances of qualifying for europe, could you honestly say a 3 match ban for diving if you are 3-0 up is fair, should probably start with fines if anything.

No it's not harsh, to think different means you are sympathetic somewhat to diving. I have no affiliation to Celtic or Arsenal and didn't watch the game last night(but did look at the dive when this thread came up). I have nothing personal against Eduardo either.

But jank is completely right when he describes diving as a scourge of the modern game.

I think a 3 match ban no matter the scoreline is fair, and a 5 match ban for a second offence is equally fair, and a 6 match ban for subsequent offenses is every bit as fair again.

You're right though, clubs should be hit with hard fines when players are caught diving too. This along with the long term bans would help clubs discourage their own players from diving.

Diving is something which badly needs to be erradicated, before this game becomes a non contact sport........which it basically has become.

jank also made a good suggestion in setting up panels to deal with the problem, that's something I'm definitely in favour of.

Morf

It's gamesmanship that's all. It's not a deliberate attempt to injure and other player. Are your serious suggesting that diving is worst than a kick off the ball or a very late, very reckless tackle?

It's not, it's simply not. I'm perfectly happy to see players fined. The fines doled out by governing bodies are to be honest, pretty lenient. The fines are usually more hefty when dished out by the clubs themselves for disciplinary matters. Multiple game bans for diving is silly and a huge overreaction.

It would be like banning a boxer for 6 months for a low blow or a rabbit punch. It's completely out a proportion to the crime.

Evil_Clown

noodler wrote: »

You're the Arsenal fan who reckon the SFA president is out of line in calling for an Eduardo ban then eh?


What do you propose? Turning a blind eye like your manager does?

My point was that the SFA pres should be asking for some new FIFA/UEFA guidelines on combating diving in general rather than singling out one player when plenty do it.

thorbarry

jank wrote: »

Mods: Can we take "the cheat" out of the title, needless to say this can set a precedent for other threads and would just cause more hastle than its worth??

+1

Boggles

He needs to come out and apologise, if he doesn't he is in for a rough season IMO.

thebaz

the answer is not in banning Eduardo , but bringing in the technology, in this day and age - that way the goal wouldn't have stood and players would stop diving - but FIFA being what they are ...

WillieCocker

Boggles wrote: »

He needs to come out and apologise, if he doesn't he is in for a rough season IMO.

LOL.
What like rougher than his first....:pac:

purple_hatstand

Retrospective punishment involving a panel of officials is potentially a step along the road towards removing 'cheating' from the game but more has to be done to make the right decision at the time of the incident.

As I pointed out in another thread on this issue yesterday:

SKY Sports had a slow-mo replay on-screen 27 seconds after the incident and the penalty was actually taken another 50 seconds later.

In this type of incident, it would not slow down the pace of the game AT ALL to refer it to a TV ref before making the correct decision.

This stuff is simple. The longer the respective governing bodies keep their heads in the sand over issues such as this, the more prevalent they will become and the more the game will suffer.

Specifically in cases where the awarding of a penalty is one of several options available for the officials, every effort should be made to make the correct decision in real time.

Celtic are now out of the CL. They had a better chance of rescuing the tie and staying in it before the penalty went in than afterwards. No amount or scale of retrospective punishment can change that.

greendom

purple_hatstand wrote: »

Celtic are now out of the CL. They had a better chance of rescuing the tie and staying in it before the penalty went in than afterwards. No amount or scale of retrospective punishment can change that.

Might have helped if they'd actually given Arsenal any sort of a game. Let's be honest in this instance the awarding of the penalty had no impact on the outcome of the match. Celtic were never going to be good enough.

Now I realise this isn't always the case but it certainly was on Wednesday

kippy

greendom wrote: »

Might have helped if they'd actually given Arsenal any sort of a game. Let's be honest in this instance the awarding of the penalty had no impact on the outcome of the match. Celtic were never going to be good enough.

Now I realise this isn't always the case but it certainly was on Wednesday

Completely Irrelevant point in my opinion.
Why the play the game at all if Celtic were never going to be good enough?

I know there are hundreds of things that happen during a match that can change the course of the match, a lot of which can be argued but just for the good of the game diving has to be stamped out.
Theres been a few decent comments made about how to approach the situation (a good letter to F365 today on something possibly used in Germany) which could be part of the solution.

After we get rid of diving, I'd like to see any player overreacting to the ref get a straight yellow and this rule to be strictly enforced, especially where "star" English players (rooney, Gerrard, Terry) are involved. As certain laws of the game do not appear to apply to them.
I know they tried this last year with the respect campaign but I think that has been forgotten about.

purple_hatstand

greendom wrote: »

Might have helped if they'd actually given Arsenal any sort of a game. Let's be honest in this instance the awarding of the penalty had no impact on the outcome of the match. Celtic were never going to be good enough.

Now I realise this isn't always the case but it certainly was on Wednesday

This is irrelevant. The unpredictable nature of the game is why it has so many followers.

If you could predict for certain that the best team was always going to win, nobody would have bothered turning up to watch Burnley's first two home games of the season, nor the Emirates the other night etc...

While it is unlikely that Celtic would have had the ability to turn over Arsenal at the Emirates anyway; the fact remains, they had a better chance of doing so before the penalty went in than afterwards.

Third_Echelon

Lets get a couple of things straight.... He dived he should be punished for it.

There is a precident.

The laws of UEFA allow retrospective bannings.

How difficult is this for people to understand?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm

BBC wrote:

Donati believes Eduardo should be treated the same way as Lithuania striker Saulius Mikoliunas, who was punished for diving against Scotland at Hampden Park in September 2007.

After that occasion Uefa used video evidence before giving Mikoliunas a two-match ban.

BBC wrote:

A Uefa spokesman told BBC Sport its disciplinary unit will study the incident, and confirmed the organisation's rules do allow the possibility of retrospective action.

UEFA's Disciplinary Regulations:

http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/regulations/uefa/others/72/95/88/729588_download.pdf

UEFA wrote:

suspension for two competition matches or for a specified period for acting with the obvious intent to cause any match official to make an incorrect decision or supporting his error of judgement and thereby causing him to make an incorrect decision

Lots of other stuff in that document relating to unsportsmanlike behaviour etc...

UEFA are well within their rights to carry out the punishment... and I say fair play to them. The sooner this is stamped out the better.

kippy

Third_Echelon wrote: »

Lets get a couple of things straight.... He dived he should be punished for it.

There is a precident.

The laws of UEFA allow retrospective bannings.

How difficult is this for people to understand?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm





UEFA's Disciplinary Regulations:

http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/regulations/uefa/others/72/95/88/729588_download.pdf



Lots of other stuff in that document relating to unsportsmanlike behaviour etc...

UEFA are well within their rights to carry out the punishment... and I say fair play to them. The sooner this is stamped out the better.

Fully agree,
I wasnt aware of the precident and laws in the book until yesterday but great to see them there and the fact that they have been acted on.
Would be great to see them applied more consistently over the past while and I think thats whats getting at people most.

I wonder is this only under UEFA rules? The PL/FA rules may NOT have this in them.....not sure though.

thorbarry

With all this malarky about the Eduardo dive, what do you guys think about this. If UEFA start imposing harsher bans for diving and cheating. DO you think this will effect Rooney and Gerards (and others) game?

WillieCocker

If they do Gerrard, Rooney, Drogba, A Young will retire.:pac:

kippy

thorbarry wrote: »

With all this malarky about the Eduardo dive, what do you guys think about this. If UEFA start imposing harsher bans for diving and cheating. DO you think this will effect Rooney and Gerards (and others) game?

I've aluded to this above, but I wonder if these rules are possible in the PL?
If they are then I would love to see the high profile english players get punished for diving.

Iago

Breaking news on SSN

Eduardo has been charged by UEFA for diving in the recent champions league game

Formal charge is "Deceiving the Referee"

WillieCocker

Iago wrote: »

Breaking news on SSN

Eduardo has been charged by UEFA for diving in the recent champions league game

Formal charge is "Deceiving the Referee"

Source link?

thorbarry

WillieCocker wrote: »

Source link?

No link, Sky sports news on tv

WillieCocker

Ah ok.
So a two match ban is it then or have they decided?

thorbarry

WillieCocker wrote: »

Ah ok.
So a two match ban is it then or have they decided?

not sure, i'm in work

anybody got any more info?

Iago

according to SSN TV

UEFA Statement released

Having studied video evidence, the UEFA disciplinary officer has decided to charge Eduardo pursuant to article 10 of their disciplinary code which allows them to impose a retrospective 2 game ban if a player is found to be in guilty of deceiving the referee in a game.

more to follow..

Mr Alan

absolute joke tbh

WillieCocker

Mr Alan wrote: »

absolute joke tbh

Technically yes, but he does deserve it.
best thing Arsenal fans can do is get over it, it's not as if 2 game ban is going to affect our group.:)