Eduardo faces a 2 match ban

Frisbee

I can't believe they're going to ban him.

They can't decide just to punish Eduardo because it was in a high profile game against an English club.

I'm waiting avidly for Gerrard/Rooney/Drogba's first dive this year and fully expecting a two match ban for it. Which is what must happen now as this is the precedent that has been set.

thorbarry

Frisbee wrote: »

I can't believe they're going to ban him.

They can't decide just to punish Eduardo because it was in a high profile game against an English club.

I'm waiting avidly for Gerrard/Rooney/Drogba's first dive this year and fully expecting a two match ban for it. Which is what must happen now as this is the precedent that has been set.

Well from now on, every player that dives has to get the exact same treatment Eduardo has received from UEFA

Frisbee

thorbarry wrote: »

Well from now on, every player that dives has to get the exact same treatment Eduardo has received from UEFA

Exactly. It's not going to happen though.

Which is a joke

Iago

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11945_5519726,00.html

kippy

Frisbee wrote: »

Exactly. It's not going to happen though.

Which is a joke

As I said, I wonder can the same rules be applied in the PL itself? Anyone any idea?

If he gets banned its a great signal to send out early in the season. I hope that the next few who do the same thing get the same treatment no matter who they are. I really am sick and tired of diving.

thorbarry

jank wrote: »

Mods: Can we take "the cheat" out of the title, needless to say this can set a precedent for other threads and would just cause more hastle than its worth??

Hey it worked

maybe it has something to do with the other thread I started about certain other players that got merged

kippy

Frisbee wrote: »

I can't believe they're going to ban him.

They can't decide just to punish Eduardo because it was in a high profile game against an English club.

I'm waiting avidly for Gerrard/Rooney/Drogba's first dive this year and fully expecting a two match ban for it. Which is what must happen now as this is the precedent that has been set.

Why would the "They can't decide just to punish Eduardo because it was in a high profile game against an English club." be relevant? Celtic are scottish, Arsenal are English, Eduardo is neither......

kida

I agree but you have to be careful that its clearcut - ifs theres an incident with minimal contact then you cannot ban them.

where does it stop though, intentional handball on the blind side of a referee is "deceing a referee also" as is holding a jersey on the opposite side. Methinks this is a big can of worms.

NinjaTruncs

Since it looks like uefa are going to punish Eduardo and set a precedent, it will be interesting to see if they only carry this only for penalty decisions or will it be for all diving. I can't see Uefa putting to much effort into anything other than penalty decisions.

Frisbee

kippy wrote: »

Why would the "They can't decide just to punish Eduardo because it was in a high profile game against an English club." be relevant? Celtic are scottish, Arsenal are English, Eduardo is neither......

As I said before.

If we had have been playing that qualifier against Dynamo Kiev or someone like that there would not have been such a fuss made. The reason he could be receiving this ban is because it was a very high profile game which a lot of people who support neither Arsenal or Celtic were watching.

kippy

Frisbee wrote: »

As I said before.

If we had have been playing that qualifier against Dynamo Kiev or someone like that there would not have been such a fuss made. The reason he could be receiving this ban is because it was a very high profile game which a lot of people who support neither Arsenal or Celtic were watching.

And hopefully because of this "high profile" case, less players will be inclined to do it in future.

Iago

thorbarry wrote: »

Hey it worked

maybe it has something to do with the other thread I started about certain other players that got merged

Maybe it has more to with avoiding flashpoints, and maybe if posters try and turn it into a precedent of starting trolling threads in order to get their way they'll be infracted and banned.

who knows really..

AARRRGH

This is a stupid, populist decision.

Arsenal should sue UEFA for discrimination - UEFA don't apply this after-the-fact rule to anyone else.

kippy

AARRRGH wrote: »

This is a stupid, populist decision.

Arsenal should sue UEFA for discrimination - UEFA don't apply this after-the-fact rule to anyone else.

The fact is it is in the rulebooks, like a lot of other things are, once its there I dont see what the problem is. Lithuania didnt go crying to mammy when it went against them, the player took his punishment as did the team, and I doubt it was repeated again.

Mitch Connor

kippy wrote: »

The fact is it is in the rulebooks, like a lot of other things are, once its there I dont see what the problem is. Lithuania didnt go crying to mammy when it went against them, the player took his punishment as did the team, and I doubt it was repeated again.

what else could their player do? He lost the appeal, he had to take the punishment at that point.

jank

LOL, I cant believe they are actually going through with this.

Fair enough if this is something new where bans will be handed out left right and centre but does anyone actually believe this will happen? Ha yea right, Can you imagine if it were a star english player that this was happening to like Rooney or Gerrard? There would be a tabloid out cry! "We are being banned because we are English, UEFA hates us... blah blah blah..."

And if this was in the rules already than why hasn't Ronaldo, Drogba , other players received similar bans...ever for diving.....

Think this will be good for Arsenal. An Us Vs Them attitude is what the team needs.

The whole thing is a bit of a joke tbh and will just lead to this topic being brought up endlessly for the rest of the season.

Iago

jank wrote: »

LOL, I cant believe they are actually going through with this.

Fair enough if this is something new where bans will be handed out left right and centre but does anyone actually believe this will happen?.

As this is the first time this season it's happened in a big game it'll be interesting to see if it's carried forward for the duration. If it applied fairly in every UEFA game then there'll be no real problem as people won't be discriminated against.

of course it'll cause problems as the individual leagues don't come under the same banner and probably won't have the same consistency but, in European games at least, hopefully we'll see a clamping down on these kind of things.

That_Guy

If this whole banning for diving lark is going to continue then UEFA have got to be consistent and cannot be lenient with certain players.

I do like that action is being taken though and hopefully the likes of Drogba and Ronaldo are sh*tting themselves for the remainder of the season.

noodler

Excellent decision.

It wasn't just a dive, it was a dive that won a penalty. Plenty of diving may go on in games but I can understand why they would focus more on the ones that have direct impacts on results.

jank

Actually in a match a dive that is picked up is a yellow card offense, so how can that translate to a 2 game ban..??

Can anyone explain that?

kippy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what else could their player do? He lost the appeal, he had to take the punishment at that point.

Someone was saying that Arsenal should sue UEFA for discrimination, my reply was in response to that.

noodler

jank wrote: »

Actually in a match a dive that is picked up is a yellow card offense, so how can that translate to a 2 game ban..??

Can anyone explain that?

Well, I guess, you can be more definitive when charging someone retrospectively. A ref giving someone a straight red for a dive in a game could be problematic because if theres contact it is very difficult to tell how much is exaggerated.

I'd argue with Video evidence days after the game you can make a sounder judgement and issue a ban with more certainty.

Mr Alan

it'd be gas if Arsenal tried to sue Uefa.

8-10

jank wrote: »

Actually in a match a dive that is picked up is a yellow card offense, so how can that translate to a 2 game ban..??

Can anyone explain that?

The post-match punishment has to be greater than the in-match punishment because if it gets to the post-match stage it means you got an undeserved free kick or penalty in the game whereas if the ref catches you in-game you get the yellow and a free against which is a significant difference.

I'm not justifying 2 games, but it should be greater than the yellow card because it's taking into account the advantage you got in-game by cheating.

jank

noodler wrote: »

Well, I guess, you can be more definitive when charging someone retrospectively. A ref giving someone a straight red for a dive in a game could be problematic because if theres contact it is very difficult to tell how much is exaggerated.

I'd argue with Video evidence days after the game you can make a sounder judgement and issue a ban with more certainty.

Where is the precident to use video evidence, sounds like UEFA are making up the rules as they go along.

So anyway he gets banned because the ref didnt give him a yellow card. Hmmm how fair is that!

Frisbee

jank wrote: »

So anyway he gets banned because the ref didnt give him a yellow card. Hmmm how fair is that!

It's completely fair. Whwn taking retrospective action UEFA are completely within their rights to ban him.

My only concern is over the consistency that will be applied from here on out when people dive.

jank

Frisbee wrote: »

It's completely fair. Whwn taking retrospective action UEFA are completely within their rights to ban him.

My only concern is over the consistency that will be applied from here on out when people dive.

I agree about the consistency part.

I don't with this being retrospective. Diving or simulation is a yellow card offense....it was yesterday, it will be tomorrow. Just because the media and the SFA make a storm out of it doesn't all of a sudden make it a 2 match ban.
IF this was the case the the mother of all can of worms will be opened.

Third_Echelon

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Since it looks like uefa are going to punish Eduardo and set a precedent, it will be interesting to see if they only carry this only for penalty decisions or will it be for all diving. I can't see Uefa putting to much effort into anything other than penalty decisions.

The precident has already been set in the Scotland vs Lithuania diving case.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61835302&postcount=89

AARRRGH wrote: »

This is a stupid, populist decision.

Arsenal should sue UEFA for discrimination - UEFA don't apply this after-the-fact rule to anyone else.

How is it populist or stupid. It is in the rule book and yes, it has been applied before. Should it not be applied because Arsenal are a big team?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61835302&postcount=89

Mr Alan wrote: »

absolute joke tbh

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61835302&postcount=89

Mr Alan wrote: »

it'd be gas if Arsenal tried to sue Uefa.

They wouldn't have a leg to stand on (pardon the eduardo pun) :pac:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61835302&postcount=89

jank wrote: »

Where is the precident to use video evidence, sounds like UEFA are making up the rules as they go along.

So anyway he gets banned because the ref didnt give him a yellow card. Hmmm how fair is that!

There is precident with post-game video analysis

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61835302&postcount=89

jesus! :rolleyes:

hblock21

Absolute disgrace.

Uefa will never manage to get this through. Arsenal will fight all the way.

What are uefa going to do about the countless other dives since the start of the season????

What will they do in the group stages. 16 matches per round in the champs league, you can bet your bottom euro that there will be at least 4/5/6/7/8+ instances that will be dives......uefa going to step in????

jank

So in the last 2 years in all UEFA run compititions there has only been 2 incidents of "simulation". Didn't know the game has cleaned up so much..:pac:

raido9

I've been reading this thread for a while, amused by how Arsenal fans are getting their panties in a twist defending, and justifying what is blatent cheating.

The result of the incident was immense and while I don't think Celtic could overturn a two goal deficit (stranger things have happened), the penalty ended those hopes completely. When you consider the amount of money available in the champions league this one act of blatent cheating was very costly to Celtic.

The argument of yellow card during the game being disproportional to suspension in post game analysis is false. Argue the suspension on its merits. I think a yellow is too lenient for divers, others thinks its harsh. Its not a good yardstick to measure against.

I take comfort from the recent case against Harlequins in rugby, where an incident of blatent cheating was dealt with severely, thus ensuring its stamped out of the game. FIFA/ UEFA could learn something from this case. There has to be consequences to cheating or else you're left with a sport with no morals, where the letter of the law overrules common sense.


Eduardo you got lucky, two matches is not even close to enough.

jank

Can of worms

WENGER: EDUARDO CHARGE `A DISGRACE`


Arsene Wenger has gone absolutely ballistic after UEFA charged Eduardo over his alleged dive against Celtic.


According to the Arsenal boss, Eduardo has been unfairly signalled out due to the power of the media and the number of influential Scots working at European football's governing body. He's also vowed to contest every single decision made by a referee in Europe from now on


The Croatia striker allegedly dived in Arsenal's Champions League qualifier against Celtic on Wednesday night. If he is found guilty, he could be banned for two Champions League games.


Several Celtic figures called for a ban, as well as SFA chief executive Gordon Smith.


Wenger said: "It I find it a complete disgrace, and not acceptable.


"In the past, cheating has happened and no action has been taken. Eduardo was touched - and we can prove that.


"A dangerous door has been opened - every decision can now be challenged.


"I tell you now - we will be challenging every decision made by a referee in the Champions League.


Wenger also claimed that Eduardo had been signalled out due to "Scottish influence" at UEFA.


"This case has been ruled by the media, and by Scotland.


"There are many Scots who work there (at UEFA) and who are influential"

WillieCocker

raido9 wrote: »

Eduardo you got lucky, two matches is not even close to enough.

:pac:

hblock21

jank wrote: »

So in the last 2 years in all UEFA run compititions there has only been 2 incidents of "simulation". Didn't know the game has cleaned up so much..:pac:

This is what really irritates me. Also Eduardo would have picked up a yellow card if caught in the game!!

It has to be written into the rule book in black and white that a dive = 2 game ban. Otherwise Uefa look like donkeys, picking the odd dive.
Bullshiite

therecklessone

Arsene Wenger wrote:

"This case has been ruled by the media, and by Scotland.

"There are many Scots who work there (at UEFA) and who are influential"

People scoffed when it was claimed David Dein exerted an undue influence at the FA when he was at Arsenal...

hblock21

raido9 wrote: »

Eduardo you got lucky, two matches is not even close to enough.

And.......................what about ALL the other diver's

_blank_

therecklessone wrote: »

People scoffed when it was claimed David Dein exerted an undue influence at the FA when he was at Arsenal...

Football Manager in Hypocrisy Shocker!

jank

raido9 wrote: »

I've been reading this thread for a while, amused by how Arsenal fans are getting their panties in a twist defending, and justifying what is blatent cheating.

Nobody has defended the dive but they are questioning the rationale behind it and the stupid attempt at uefa to change this culture with a token gesture.

raido9 wrote: »

The result of the incident was immense and while I don't think Celtic could overturn a two goal deficit (stranger things have happened), the penalty ended those hopes completely. When you consider the amount of money available in the champions league this one act of blatent cheating was very costly to Celtic.

I think the failure to get more than 2 shots on target over 180 minutes and letting in the other 4 goals, especially 2 at Celtic Park was much more costly to Celtic. Arsenal were 200/1 on to progress. Ill say that again they were 200/1 on to progress to the group stages.... The bookies don't get those odds wrong

raido9 wrote: »

The argument of yellow card during the game being disproportional to suspension in post game analysis is false. Argue the suspension on its merits. I think a yellow is too lenient for divers, others thinks its harsh. Its not a good yardstick to measure against.

But its the same offense. Them the rules at the end of the day.

raido9 wrote: »

I take comfort from the recent case against Harlequins in rugby, where an incident of blatent cheating was dealt with severely, thus ensuring its stamped out of the game. FIFA/ UEFA could learn something from this case. There has to be consequences to cheating or else you're left with a sport with no morals, where the letter of the law overrules common sense.

I agree, Football can learn alot about rugby but there are huge issues with officiating in Rugby espeically when it comes to the grey areas such as the breakdown.

raido9 wrote: »

Eduardo you got lucky, two matches is not even close to enough.

Like what? 5 games 10 games? 1 year?

therecklessone

Des wrote: »

Football Manager in Hypocrisy Shocker!

I was thinking more along the lines of football manager talking out his hole shocker myself.

Isn't the top dawg at UEFA a Frenchie? Surely that stands to Arsene?

raido9

hblock21 wrote: »

This is what really irritates me. Also Eduardo would have picked up a yellow card if caught in the game!!

It has to be written into the rule book in black and white that a dive = 2 game ban. Otherwise Uefa look like donkeys, picking the odd dive.
Bullshiite

This rulebook you talk about doesn't contain information such as "dive = 2 game ban".
What it does say is you can be penalised for "deceiving the referee" which I think we can all agree is what Eduardo did.

hblock21 wrote: »

And.......................what about ALL the other diver's

They all got lucky too. Instead of getting outraged at the inequality of this, look at it as the beginning of the end of diving. If this goes ahead, it will set prescident for all instances of diving to be hit with similar suspensions, which I dont think anyone can argue is a bad thing.

Diving is not "part of the game" as most people have conceded it is.

WillieCocker

raido9 wrote: »

They all got lucky too. Instead of getting outraged at the inequality of this, look at it as the beginning of the end of diving. If this goes ahead, it will set prescident for all instances of diving to be hit with similar suspensions, which I dont think anyone can argue is a bad thing.

Diving is not "part of the game" as most people have conceded it is.

I don't think that's what hblock meant, more to do with saying 2 match ban isn't enough.:rolleyes:

jank

therecklessone wrote: »

People scoffed when it was claimed David Dein exerted an undue influence at the FA when he was at Arsenal...

Can you prove of any incident where this influence benefited Arsenal directly or is this just more baseless football rivalry guff.

therecklessone

jank wrote: »

Can you prove of any incident where this influence benefited Arsenal directly or is this just more baseless football rivalry guff.

ROFL.

I believe at the time I dismissed the conspiracy theory that Dein was the horned one (in debate with The Muppet IIRC), just like I'd dismiss Arsene's theory that it's those evil Scots at UEFA who are pulling the strings.

Again, IIRC the charge was that Arsenal were getting a handy fixture list in the PL around their CL fixtures whereas United were not. Perhaps Pighead remembers.

kida

regarding the yellow card if happened in a match argument and seen, if that was the case then the penalty would not have been given and scored - hence the difference QED

stevoslice

jank wrote: »

I think the failure to get more than 2 shots on target over 180 minutes and letting in the other 4 goals, especially 2 at Celtic Park was much more costly to Celtic. Arsenal were 200/1 on to progress. Ill say that again they were 200/1 on to progress to the group stages.... The bookies don't get those odds wrong

Exactly why the dive was a lot more disgusting to most fans. Arsenal were always going to win the tie after a 2-0 in parkhead, so there was literally no need to resort to cheating to win the game.

uefa must also have noticed how easily players go down when playing scottish teams, as seen on the worst dive thread, there must have been 4 or 5 big swan dives over the last few years by players when playing against celtic, and i think its about time that this was recognised by the authorities and make an example of eduardo.

jank

therecklessone wrote: »

I was thinking more along the lines of football manager talking out his hole shocker myself.

Isn't the top dawg at UEFA a Frenchie? Surely that stands to Arsene?

How exactly does this benefit Wenger when UEFA (whom this "Frenchie" is the head of) have just singled out one of his player in a view to ban for 2 games and thus setting a precedent (or not, it remains to be seen) for the rest of UEFA compititions.

If that is him doing Arsenal a favour I would hate to see a Scott as head of the associtation.:pac:

*watch now he will get off and claims will fly that the 2 of them did a deal, some people will believe anything

jank

therecklessone wrote: »

ROFL.

I believe at the time I dismissed the conspiracy theory that Dein was the horned one (in debate with The Muppet IIRC), just like I'd dismiss Arsene's theory that it's those evil Scots at UEFA who are pulling the strings.

Again, IIRC the charge was that Arsenal were getting a handy fixture list in the PL around their CL fixtures whereas United were not. Perhaps Pighead remembers.

Yea I remember that, then some United guy took over Deins job and they all went quiet...

I am sure Wenger doesn't think those scots are evil but the media and the SFA have made a big deal about this.That cannot be disputed. Maybe to cover up the huge gap between the 2 leagues. Everyone loves a smokescreen.

hblock21

raido9 wrote: »

Instead of getting outraged at the inequality of this, look at it as the beginning of the end of diving.

Look. Thats not going to happen lad.

How many dives will there be at the weekend?

What will happen to those divers? (if they were not given a yellow card)

Uefa are opening a can of dead worms. That could come alive and eat them up.

They have to go into their "setting in stone rules" room. And set a rule in stone to cover ALL DIVE'S. Not just this one and wait another TWO years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

raido9

jank wrote: »

Nobody has defended the dive but they are questioning the rationale behind it and the stupid attempt at uefa to change this culture with a token gesture.

Token gesture / step in the right direction. They have to start somewhere.

jank wrote: »

I think the failure to get more than 2 shots on target over 180 minutes and letting in the other 4 goals, especially 2 at Celtic Park was much more costly to Celtic. Arsenal were 200/1 on to progress. Ill say that again they were 200/1 on to progress to the group stages.... The bookies don't get those odds wrong

What were the odds on Liverpool at half time against Milan in chapions league final. Or Man Utd with injury time to go against Bayern Munich all those years ago.

At 0-0 with 80 minutes to go, two goals were plausible.

Either way speculative point on both our parts.

jank wrote: »

But its the same offense. Them the rules at the end of the day.

As stated before if you get caught, you get a yellow card and lose the advantage (penalty free kick).

It is cynical cheating and should be given a red in my opinion, won't happen as referee's are afraid of even giving a yellow for diving.

jank wrote: »

I agree, Football can learn alot about rugby but there are huge issues with officiating in Rugby espeically when it comes to the grey areas such as the breakdown.

Absolutely, the respect players have (or seem to have) for rugby referees is something which should be analysed.

jank wrote: »

Like what? 5 games 10 games? 1 year?

I think 3 game ban would be enough of a disincentive for diving in most scenario's. One weekend suspending half the premiership wouldn't be long sorting out this viral act of cheating.

therecklessone

jank wrote: »

*watch now he will get off and claims will fly that the 2 of them did a deal, some people will believe anything

I assure you I do not believe anything, which is why I think it laughable that Wenger is blaming the Scottish influence at UEFA for the charge against Eduardo.