Eduardo faces a 2 match ban

Jax Teller

Eduardo has been charged with "deceiving the referee" more like Eduardo has been charged with "making the referee look like a douchebag"
whole thing is a joke if ya ask me ,

Frisbee

It;s ridiculous to think Scots in the FA are working against Arsenal while the French could be working for them.

Especially considering Eduardo is Croatian/Brazilian.

If UEFA are using this as a starting off point for giving two match bans for every single dive from here on out then I welcome the ruling with open arms.

But if they are going to punish Eduardo and then let dives go after this then I feel Arsenal will have every right to feel aggrieved.

noodler

At the end of the day, you do wrong - you get punished.

The whole "but the other guys do it" argument is pathetic. It works for banter on a football board but as a defence in a Sport (remember, a Sport, not a court of law) it is pathetic.

Wenger is a disgrace for saying Eduardo did nothing wrong and then by trying to turn the attention to the SFA influence in order to mask the blatant cheating by one of his own.


Celtic should sue UEFA/Arsenal for the 25m they won't get for being in the CL - hey, you never know. Its only as stupid as Arsenal sueing UEFA over a fair punishment.

Drug cheats get year bans for trying to gain an unfair advantage, I am not saying they are one and the same thing or anything but its another POV to the "only a yellow if it happened in a match" argument.

hblock21

raido9 wrote: »

I think 3 game ban would be enough of a disincentive for diving in most scenario's. One weekend suspending half the premiership wouldn't be long sorting out this viral act of cheating.

Fair enough. Thats what SHOULD be done.

But will it?

If not, banning Eduardo is pointless and unprofessional by uefa.

*yes Eduardo was unprofessional too

raido9

hblock21 wrote: »

Fair enough. Thats what SHOULD be done.

But will it?

If not, banning Eduardo is pointless and unprofessional by uefa.

*yes Eduardo was unprofessional too

Not saying thats what SHOULD be done, its just what I think should be done.

I'm glad to see any step towards getting rid of this cancerous act of diving. And I welcome and step in the right direction, token gesture or not.

Mikeyt086

Arsene Wenger just said on SSN "You can break someones leg and nothing is said. People are reacting like he killed someone." Actually, when Eduardo's leg was broken, you said Martin Taylor should be banned for life.

He is making himself look foolish at this stage. If Wenger came out and said something like "I have told Eduardo i am not happy and he regrets his actions" then nothing more would be said. Trying to say he did nothing wrong is just stupid.

jank

raido9 wrote: »

Token gesture / step in the right direction. They have to start somewhere.

What does your head tell you when it comes to UEFA..... token gesture sums it up.

raido9 wrote: »

What were the odds on Liverpool at half time against Milan in chapions league final. Or Man Utd with injury time to go against Bayern Munich all those years ago.

At 0-0 with 80 minutes to go, two goals were plausible.

Either way speculative point on both our parts.

200/1 on my friend

raido9 wrote: »

As stated before if you get caught, you get a yellow card and lose the advantage (penalty free kick).

It is cynical cheating and should be given a red in my opinion, won't happen as referee's are afraid of even giving a yellow for diving.

The problem with that though is that a real foul might result in a player getting sent off. A can of worms.

raido9 wrote: »

Absolutely, the respect players have (or seem to have) for rugby referees is something which should be analysed.

I agree but it will be a long time coming/

raido9 wrote: »

I think 3 game ban would be enough of a disincentive for diving in most scenario's. One weekend suspending half the premiership wouldn't be long sorting out this viral act of cheating.

I agree once its applied to all teams and players

Jax Teller

Normally a situation that has been assessed and judged by the referee cannot be touched again.
"So that means we have opened a door that means that every single decision that is seen by a referee can be changed. They have opened a very dangerous door there."
The Gunners boss insisted that Eduardo had been touched by Boruc and added that even if it was only a slight brush he did not blame the player for going down given his history with injuries.
"I am not disappointed, here it is a witch hunt," he added.
"Eduardo has been touched by the goalkeeper we can prove that. One thing - is it a penalty or not? I am the first to say it doesn't look obvious to be a penalty but it is another thing to judge with intent he did go down and I wish you good luck to prove that after seeing the pictures again.
"To single a player out like that who has come back from injury like he has, been hit like he has been, for going down I don't blame him. When you see his leg first time I don't blame him getting out of the way of the goalkeeper."

well said by wenger i think

SuprSi

Wenger still making himself look stupid I see......

"I believe you can debate whether it is a penalty or not. But this charge implies that with intent and with a desire to cheat the referee, Eduardo did act.

"Having seen again the pictures, nothing is conclusive on that."

So he didn't deliberately try to deceive the ref by diving to win a penalty? Sure Mr Wenger, sure.

Overall though, I believe he's being made a scapegoat for an age old problem, and it means that UEFA will have to maintain this stance from here on in, which in itself poses its own problems.

Indie18

If Eduardo is banned for any amount of games then it's a complete disgrace, why should he get a ban when any player who is caught out diving in a game is shown a yellow and not a red, so what we are looking at now is a player getting a two maybe three match ban for a yellow card offence, now thats rediculous.

By all means punish him but only with the yellow card he deserves and not a ban. It's staggering how much attention this has gotten as apposed to other things that have gone unpunished.

ctrl-alt-delete

I think Eduardo is one of the best natural finisher's i have seen in the Premier League, i was disgusted to see the dive the other night, it's a disgusting thing to do, especially coming from player's that have talent in abundance.

This isn't the 1st time Uefa have handed out ban's after the games, for things caught on camera that the referee did not see in the game,

From the Sun today:

Raul against Leeds in 01 was given a 1 match ban for a "hand of god " goal, and an £8,000 fine.

Mikoliunas got a 2 game ban for diving against Scotland for Lithuania, which led to a penalty - much like Eduardo.

The 2 others they mention are Mihajlovic and Totti both banned for spitting - 8 games and 3 games respectively.

Eduardo and all like him should be punished, there is no precident being set by banning Eduardo now. A ruling should be made, if the ban is to be severe enough diving would be stamped out rather quickly.

If i was Boruc the other night i would have felt better being spat at in the face than what Eduardo done, it is the most blatant form of cheating, but the one most seem to be getting away with these days.

jank

noodler wrote: »

At the end of the day, you do wrong - you get punished.

The whole "but the other guys do it" argument is pathetic. It works for banter on a football board but as a defence in a Sport (remember, a Sport, not a court of law) it is pathetic.

Wenger is a disgrace for saying Eduardo did nothing wrong and then by trying to turn the attention to the SFA influence in order to mask the blatant cheating by one of his own.


Celtic should sue UEFA/Arsenal for the 25m they won't get for being in the CL - hey, you never know. Its only as stupid as Arsenal sueing UEFA over a fair punishment.

Drug cheats get year bans for trying to gain an unfair advantage, I am not saying they are one and the same thing or anything but its another POV to the "only a yellow if it happened in a match" argument.

Oh please.....!!:rolleyes:

ctrl-alt-delete

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

well said by wenger i think

You think?

Making a fool of himself i think, i'm all for managers standing by their player's, but not on something like this, something that was clear for all to see,

Salt in the wounds playing the sympathy card about his injury, getting out of the way of the keeper my arsene.

Mars Bar

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

You think?

Making a fool of himself i think, i'm all for managers standing by their player's, but not on something like this, something that was clear for all to see,

Salt in the wounds playing the sympathy card about his injury, getting out of the way of the keeper my arsene.

That's why I called him a t**t...got an infraction for it!

You don't see Cech jumping out of the way and he fractured his skull!

jester77

What Eduardo did was wrong, I'm an Arsenal fan and my respect for him went down a few notches after that dive. But the punishment is also wrong, similar punishment to getting sent off. But UEFA had to do something, if they ignored this, what sort of a message would that send out. There are certain players out there who would take advantage of it if they know they will go unpunished. UEFA were in a no win situation, they have now set a precedent and it's now going to be a messy season when it comes to diving, cheating and genuine fouls that looked like dives. Got to feel sorry for the refs from here on out, all their descisions are going to scrutinised and questioned.

JPA

Has anyone ever been retrospectively charged like this for diving?
Seems very harsh IMO, simply because he is being made an example of.

noodler

JPA wrote: »

Has anyone ever been retrospectively charged like this for diving?
Seems very harsh IMO, simply because he is being made an example of.

Eh... I think you will find it was actually harsh on Celtic.

speedboatchase

noodler wrote: »

Celtic should sue UEFA/Arsenal for the 25m they won't get for being in the CL - hey, you never know. Its only as stupid as Arsenal sueing UEFA over a fair punishment.

Not just that, launch a seperate suit to claim the other four goals Arsenal scored against them were in fact property of Celtic and remove any evidence that they only had two shots on goal over the two legs. Celtic would've won the whole bloody tournament if it wasn't for that meddlin' Eduardo!

Give me a break

Iago

Right I've removed the off-topic posts from this thread.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential 2 game ban Eduardo may face for UEFAs interpetation of his actions in the game against Celtic, nothing else.

The next poster to mention the previous incident involving Taylor will be infracted for off-topic posting.

JPA

noodler wrote: »

Eh... I think you will find it was actually harsh on Celtic.

I'm not defending diving, but it happens, a lot.
So why is this particular dive being focussed on?

noodler

speedboatchase wrote: »

Not just that, launch a seperate suit to claim the other four goals Arsenal scored against them were in fact property of Celtic and remove any evidence that they only had two shots on goal over the two legs. Celtic would've won the whole bloody tournament if it wasn't for that meddlin' Eduardo!

Give me a break

Do I actually have to write "tounge-in-cheek", I clearly implied the suggestion was "stupid". Pay more attention will you please.

Anyway, I guess punishments shouldn't be handed out based on whther or not the victimised team would or would no have won.

JPA wrote: »

I'm not defending diving, but it happens, a lot.

So why is this particular dive being focussed on?

Well for a start I think it was one of the worst I have ever seen. It was in a live CL match. It ended the tie as a contest (we can all express our views on that but the fact is it ended the match as a competitibe spectacle).

There is also Eduardo's conduct in the aftermath. His smile while on the ground and his celebration to the camera afterwards.

Irregardless, some dives are inconsequential, this one was not. I am not saying we should only punish dives which influence the outcome of a match but it is as good a place to start as any.

ctrl-alt-delete

JPA wrote: »

Has anyone ever been retrospectively charged like this for diving?
Seems very harsh IMO, simply because he is being made an example of.

From the Sun today:


September 2007

Lithuani winger Saulius Mikoliunas recieved a 2 game ban after UEFA found him guilty of diving against Scotland.
The Hearts player tricked the ref into giving a penalty in Lithuania's 3-1 defeat at Hampden.

Mars Bar

JPA wrote: »

I'm not defending diving, but it happens, a lot.
So why is this particular dive being focussed on?

Because it came from a "footballing club" and, in all honesty, Eduardo was probably one of the last players you'd think would dive. He has all the attributes to make an excellent footballer, he shouldn't need to resort to diving.

Roar

i'm just imagining what it would be like if it were steven gerrard or frank lampard or any of england's true sporting heroes (tm) that were involved in a similar incident.

there'd be no talk of two match bans and all the frothing at the mouth that there's been recently.

instead, there'd be a simple "he's used his experience there" line from one of sky's analysts, they'd move on an that would have been that.

WillieCocker

JPA wrote: »

I'm not defending diving, but it happens, a lot.
So why is this particular dive being focussed on?

Because it is an Arsenal player that did it, and in recent years that part has gone from our game.
The players never usually needed to dive as they got hacked out of it anyway.

JPA

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

From the Sun today:


September 2007

Lithuani winger Saulius Mikoliunas recieved a 2 game ban after UEFA found him guilty of diving against Scotland.
The Hearts player tricked the ref into giving a penalty in Lithuania's 3-1 defeat at Hampden.

Ok, I didn't know that, but how come a lot more players aren't charged?
If this hadn't been made a big deal of in the media would anything have happened?

Jax Teller

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

You think?

Making a fool of himself i think, i'm all for managers standing by their player's, but not on something like this, something that was clear for all to see,

Salt in the wounds playing the sympathy card about his injury, getting out of the way of the keeper my arsene.

Normally a situation that has been assessed and judged by the referee cannot be touched again.
"So that means we have opened a door that means that every single decision that is seen by a referee can be changed. They have opened a very dangerous door there."

this bit here more so then the rest

kida

JPA wrote: »

Ok, I didn't know that, but how come a lot more players aren't charged?
If this hadn't been made a big deal of in the media would anything have happened?

I am struggling to remember ones as blatant that also won penalties - this was a game changing outcome

Mossy Monk

Charged with deceiving the referee. So it was not for the act of diving. I hope the UEFA disciplinary people have enough staff to deal the amount of complaints they will be getting from clubs all across Europe.

ctrl-alt-delete

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

this bit here more so then the rest

Still not doing himself any favours in my opinion.

I don't mind as many doors being opened as needed once they lead to players being punished for doing wrong. Sometimes the ref see's things and still get's them wrong, just because the ref has seen it and given the penalty is not to say he was right.

You could see his gesturing to Boruc on the pitch while walking in for half time that he was of the opinion that Boruc clipped him in the heels or the back of the leg. I think we can all see ( most of us that is ) that he never touched Eduardo, Eduardo had one thing on his mind, to make an attempt to get to the ball, solely so he could dive. He should be given a 2 game ban, same as the Lithuanian was in 2007.

gosplan

I'm all for retrospective bans for diving but this is going to turn out to be one of the most mismanaged cock-ups in UEFA history.

Some questions:

Is 'attempting to deceive the ref' now a two match ban? That's going to be funny.

Does it only apply to dives inside the box?

Does it only apply to dives that result in a goal?

What about winning a free kick outside the box that results in an unsuccessful goal chance?

Is the price that Madrid paid for Ronaldo suddenly really bad value? - Attempting to deceive the ref a two match ban, LOL :D. By my calculations he'll play the first and fourth group game, the first match of the first knockout stage, the second quarter final match and he'll be available for the final if they make it.

Mars Bar

gosplan wrote: »

I'm all for retrospective bans for diving but this is going to turn out to be one of the most mismanaged cock-ups in UEFA history.

Some questions:

Is 'attempting to deceive the ref' now a two match ban? That's going to be funny.

Does it only apply to dives inside the box?

Does it only apply to dives that result in a goal?

What about winning a free kick outside the box that results in an unsuccessful goal chance?

Is the price that Madrid paid for Ronaldo suddenly really bad value? - Attempting to deceive the ref a two match ban, LOL :D. By my calculations he'll play the first and fourth group game, the first match of the first knockout stage, the second quarter final match and he'll be available for the final if they make it.

I don't think it was attempting to deceive the ref. He was successful at deceiving the ref...slight difference there, still makes it very awkward for the respective governing bodies indeed.

Still glad it was brought to the fore though and that Eduardo got the ban.

noodler

Decieving the Referee is a better description because it makes the distinction that a serious decision was given in favour of Arsenal due to the offence rather than it being some "less significant" (I know I know, they are all significant) dive in the centre of the pitch when a game hasn't got an hour still to play.

Clanket

Why can't they just do the following:-

Attempt to deceive the ref = 2 game ban and a yellow card during the game.

If it's missed then it can be applied retro.

Simple as.

Indie18

kida wrote: »

I am struggling to remember ones as blatant that also won penalties - this was a game changing outcome

In my opinion a blatant dive that wins a peno is no worse than a subtle dive with the same outcome.

Het-Field

Agree with Wenger that an appalling precedent may be set by virtue of this. What about an honest to god slip, which a ref misjudges. A player shouldnt suffer for ref idocracy.

However, Eduardo deserves condemnation for his cheatery. It was the lowest of the low.

kida

Indie18 wrote: »

In my opinion a blatant dive that wins a peno is no worse than a subtle dive with the same outcome.

by blatant I mean he didn't stumble or hurdle a tackle or go down under minimal contact - these would be harder to prove

hblock21

kida wrote: »

I am struggling to remember ones as blatant that also won penalties - this was a game changing outcome

Oh come on. Theres dive each and every weekend.

A dive is a dive.

kida

hblock21 wrote: »

Oh come on. Theres dive each and every weekend.

A dive is a dive.

point out one as obvious as this that won a penalty

Quint

hblock21 wrote: »

Oh come on. Theres dive each and every weekend.

A dive is a dive.

Doesn't make it ok.
I hope they make an example of Eduardo and ban him for the duration of the Champions League.

Frisbee

Quint wrote: »

Doesn't make it ok.
I hope they make an example of Eduardo and ban him for the duration of the Champions League.

That's a ridiculous knee jerk reaction.

gosplan

Awesome, that took even shorter than expected:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnfGtkp4qdE

About 1:27

So, since this game from last night was in a European competition, can we now assume that Young will be cited and perhaps banned?

Seriously, the political gimps at the top of football have made a few co*k-ups in their time but this has to be the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Pepe LeFrits

Rooney against Arsenal.

The absurdity of this is the utter inconsistency. Sure, it'd be great if after banning Eduardo UEFA announce that they've setup a post-match video committee with immediate effect but they won't. Eduardo will get banned and life will go on as normal, players will dive and win penalties but won't get punished because the media won't kick up a big enough storm. Banning Eduardo will do nothing to counter the diving culture in the game, it's just picking on one player for doing something that players in every team do.

Furthermore some of the comments about diving and those who do it are incredibly over the top. Diving is a pain in the hole yes but it is far from the only form of cheating that is endemic in football. Every game players use illegal means to gain whatever advantage they can, whether it be sneakily kicking players ankles, pinching, elbowing, pulling and so on. They're just part of the English game like diving often is abroad. They aren't seen as a stain on the players character though, whereas a guy who dives is a dishonest person. There often seems to be an air of superiority in the British game of playing it the correct way yet you've got ridiculous situations where people intentional physical acts of violence are more acceptable than taking a tumble to win a penalty.

kida

gosplan wrote: »

Awesome, that took even shorter than expected:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnfGtkp4qdE

About 1:27

So, since this game from last night was in a European competition, can we now assume that Young will be cited and perhaps banned?

Seriously, the political gimps at the top of football have made a few co*k-ups in their time but this has to be the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

not comparabe IMO - that looks like making the most of minimal contact

gosplan

kida wrote: »

not comparabe IMO - that looks like making the most of minimal contact

So good dives or making the most of minimal contact(i.e. not a foul) are fine but bad or blatant dives deserve a two match ban?

AFAIK, SSN even called Young's a dive.

I'm not having a go at you but this is exactly why this judgment is such a joke.

greendom

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Furthermore some of the comments about diving and those who do it are incredibly over the top. Diving is a pain in the hole yes but it is far from the only form of cheating that is endemic in football. Every game players use illegal means to gain whatever advantage they can, whether it be sneakily kicking players ankles, pinching, elbowing, pulling and so on. They're just part of the English game like diving often is abroad. They aren't seen as a stain on the players character though, whereas a guy who dives is a dishonest person. There often seems to be an air of superiority in the British game of playing it the correct way yet you've got ridiculous situations where people intentional physical acts of violence are more acceptable than taking a tumble to win a penalty.

Absolutely 100% - I made a smiliar point, (not as eloquently) earlier in this or the match thread.

Another thing to consider that the attackers game is all about deception. Fooling the defender as he swerves to go one way then the other. Tricking the goalkeeper to dive the wrong way. It's in their mind-set and that's why diving happens so frequently. The main problem with Eduardo's attempt on Wednesday was that he was expecting more contact from the keeper. In fact he was barely touched and that's why it was so obvious it was a dive

kida

gosplan wrote: »

So good dives or making the most of minimal contact(i.e. not a foul) are fine but bad or blatant dives deserve a two match ban?

AFAIK, SSN even called Young's a dive.

I'm not having a go at you but this is exactly why this judgment is such a joke.

I know what you are saying but IMO it has to be 100% deliberate, Youngs wasn't IMO - there is some doubt

Mitch Connor

imo - there are instances where a player is impeded (without the defending player geting the ball) but where they could stay on their feet. You see players go down in these situations, and it would be described as going down easy. Sometimes they get the foul called. Sometimes they try to stay on their feet but lose possesion of the ball because of the defender slowing them down or putting them off balance. A lot of the time, a ref won't give a foul for that, because the player didn't go down.

In those cases, what is the incentive for the player to stay on his feet - when going down (and thus drawing the refs attention to it) could result in the free he probably deserves.

IMO, there is a difference between going down easily and diving. Eduardo dived on Wednesday night (before anyone starts - Rooney and Ronaldo have done the same) and I think dives like his should be treated differently to people 'making the most' of the contact.

Frisbee

Mitch Connor wrote: »

imo - there are instances where a player is impeded (without the defending player geting the ball) but where they could stay on their feet. You see players go down in these situations, and it would be described as going down easy. Sometimes they get the foul called. Sometimes they try to stay on their feet but lose possesion of the ball because of the defender slowing them down or putting them off balance. A lot of the time, a ref won't give a foul for that, because the player didn't go down.

In those cases, what is the incentive for the player to stay on his feet - when going down (and thus drawing the refs attention to it) could result in the free he probably deserves.

IMO, there is a difference between going down easily and diving. Eduardo dived on Wednesday night (before anyone starts - Rooney and Ronaldo have done the same) and I think dives like his should be treated differently to people 'making the most' of the contact.

Good post Mitch

kida

Mitch Connor wrote: »

imo - there are instances where a player is impeded (without the defending player geting the ball) but where they could stay on their feet. You see players go down in these situations, and it would be described as going down easy. Sometimes they get the foul called. Sometimes they try to stay on their feet but lose possesion of the ball because of the defender slowing them down or putting them off balance. A lot of the time, a ref won't give a foul for that, because the player didn't go down.

In those cases, what is the incentive for the player to stay on his feet - when going down (and thus drawing the refs attention to it) could result in the free he probably deserves.

IMO, there is a difference between going down easily and diving. Eduardo dived on Wednesday night (before anyone starts - Rooney and Ronaldo have done the same) and I think dives like his should be treated differently to people 'making the most' of the contact.

you has the time to fully explain my point - very different situations