Eduardo faces a 2 match ban

Frisbee

Pro. F wrote: »

If they reduce the number of incidents that they step in on - say by only retro-actively punishing dives that result in a penalty.

The message UEFA will send players by doing that is that it's perfectly accceptable to dive as long as your not in the opposition box. Diving has to be cut out of the game altogether, not just in pieces which UEFA choose

L'prof

noodler wrote: »

I think you are confusing the word precedent with your argument that the rules are not being applied consistently enough.

Really???

prec⋅e⋅dent  [n. pres-i-duhnt; adj. pri-seed-nt, pres-i-duhnt] Show IPA
Use precedent in a Sentence
–noun
1. Law. a legal decision or form of proceeding serving as an authoritative rule or pattern in future similar or analogous cases.
2. any act, decision, or case that serves as a guide or justification for subsequent situations.

From here.

I don't think I'm the one that's confused!

Quint

jasonorr wrote: »

What I mean is, once a precedent is set is should be used in every such case after said precedent. Does this not make sense? If not, then it's more like victimisation than setting a precedent!

Take any law in the world. Is everyone that breaks it punished? No. Is everyone given the same punishment? No. Why would UEFA victimise Eduardo? It was an obviously dive and he was punished.

jasonorr wrote: »

So since September 8 2007 (said precedent) no players involved in Uefa regulated matches have been banned for diving? So no players have dived since then in Uefa regulated matches to gain free / penalty? That's ridiculous, it seems like victimisation to me, not "setting a precedent".

So, they're starting now! Better late than never.

jasonorr wrote: »

Eduardo has been charged now and faces a 2 match ban, does this mean that every player that dives from now on will receive the same fate? I doubt it to be honest. Selective banning is victimisation.

Why should it be one rule for one person and another for the next??? If Eduardo is banned, fair enough. All I'm saying is if he is, then I'd expect to see these bans being handed out all the time from now on! Will they? Will they fúck!

A lot of assumpions there. I reckon UEFA will crack down on diving in the CL this season and hopefully other competitions will follow.
I think everyone will agree that diving is the worst part of football. UEFA are finally doing something about it, and still people are moaning. I think a lot of fans of "the big 4" have a problem with anything UEFA does because UEFA don't like their little cartel.

Mossy Monk

Quint wrote: »

I think a lot of fans of "the big 4" have a problem with anything UEFA does because UEFA don't like their little cartel.

My problem is their lack of consistancy. But thank you for your assumption.

L'prof

Quint wrote: »

Take any law in the world. Is everyone that breaks it punished? No. Is everyone given the same punishment? No. Why would UEFA victimise Eduardo? It was an obviously dive and he was punished.

No, but everyone who is caught is punished / charged. I wouldn't expect the same punishment for everyone to be honest.

Quint wrote: »

So, they're starting now! Better late than never.

I doubt they will start now since they didn't start then, that's my main concern!

Quint wrote: »

A lot of assumpions there. I reckon UEFA will crack down on diving in the CL this season and hopefully other competitions will follow.
I think everyone will agree that diving is the worst part of football. UEFA are finally doing something about it, and still people are moaning. I think a lot of fans of "the big 4" have a problem with anything UEFA does because UEFA don't like their little cartel.

You assume I don't agree with the decision, I have no problem with it as long as Uefa continue to hand out the bans, I'm just very sceptical of this!

Quint

jasonorr wrote: »

No, but everyone who is caught is punished / charged. I wouldn't expect the same punishment for everyone to be honest.



I doubt they will start now since they didn't start then, that's my main concern!



You assume I don't agree with the decision, I have no problem with it as long as Uefa continue to hand out the bans, I'm just very sceptical of this!

Knock it off with your negative vibes! UEFA will ban more players for this and lance the boil on the arse of football once and for all. A lot of people are saying it's harsh on eduardo. But imagine he was given a 5 match ban, and them Ronaldo dived against milan and UEFA gave another 5 match ban. It would almost eliminate diving overnight! They have to keep it up obviously, but I think they will. Imagine, no more of this:

leninbenjamin

Quint wrote: »

I can't believe so many people think UEFA shouldn't punish eduardo because others get away with it! Eduardo is a cheating scumbag and should get the book thrown at him. And hopefully the book is really big and heavy.

It's a yellow card offence. The most he should get is a yellow retrospectively. Otherwise they're punishing Eduardo for a referee's mistake to give a penalty.

And it's no more cheating than the defender who plays the man instead of the ball because he knows he cant get back to prevent a scoring opportunity.

Plus it's ridiculous that a straight red and violent conduct is only a marginally longer ban than this weird diving charge.

Charging Eduardo successfully wont make a difference, because ultimately it's only the referee's that can enforce this. Time and time again referee's just wave play on when they spot a dive, when by rights they should be giving yellow cards. Eduardo's the easy option here, UEFA couldn't give a rats ass what happened as long as they save face and get their TV money.

Quint

leninbenjamin wrote: »

It's a yellow card offence. The most he should get is a yellow retrospectively. Otherwise they're punishing Eduardo for a referee's mistake to give a penalty.

And it's no more cheating than the defender who plays the man instead of the ball because he knows he cant get back to prevent a scoring opportunity.

Plus it's ridiculous that a straight red and violent conduct is only a marginally longer ban than this weird diving charge.

Charging Eduardo successfully wont make a difference, because ultimately it's only the referee's that can enforce this. Time and time again referee's just wave play on when they spot a dive, when by rights they should be giving yellow cards. Eduardo's the easy option here, UEFA couldn't give a rats ass what happened as long as they save face and get their TV money.

If your team gets knocked out of a major competition because an opposition player dives, do you think UEFA should review it and give that player a yellow card? 2 matches isn't long enough imho. Eduardo could have told the ref it wasn't a peno. Was it Fowler that did that?
Comletely agree with the problem of the ref waving play on when a player dives instead of giving a yellow. Another thing I hate is that other form of cheating: a player pretending he's injured, knowing the opposition will kick the ball out of play. Even the crowd play a part in that one, they boo and whistle to pressure the players to kick it out. If a player has a serious injury, the ref will stop play, no need to kick the ball out! But that's another thread

Soby

leninbenjamin wrote: »

It's a yellow card offence. The most he should get is a yellow retrospectively. Otherwise they're punishing Eduardo for a referee's mistake to give a penalty.

True suppose ya could argue if he was caught diving he wouldnt have got a red for it and thus a ban.Would it be the worst thing if he was a given a yellow card for it now at this stage?

Pro. F

Frisbee wrote: »

The message UEFA will send players by doing that is that it's perfectly accceptable to dive as long as your not in the opposition box. Diving has to be cut out of the game altogether, not just in pieces which UEFA choose

You could well be right. My suggestion to deal with that would be a retro-active ban for:
*a dive that wins a penalty (whether it's converted or not)
*a dive that wins a free kick that is scored from - directly or indirectly, maybe with a time limit from after the free kick is taken for the goal to be considered
*a dive that results in the 'fouling' player getting sent off.
I didn't include dives that get a yellow for the 'fouler' because i think that would make too many incidents to review but every dive would still risk getting a ban.

That would probably cover most of the important dives that effect the game (maybe there are some more scenarios that need to be covered?) so they would no longer bring an advantage and all dives would risk getting punished. Also it would be a managable number of incidents to be dealt with imo.

Scrapping all of that suggestion, even if UEFA only punished dives that got penalties at least it would be an improvement from what we've had up to now.

Sure, no suggestion for how to deal with diving is going to be perfect but it's worth trying something.

Edit: to remove horrible spelling errors

Pro. F

leninbenjamin wrote: »

It's a yellow card offence. The most he should get is a yellow retrospectively. Otherwise they're punishing Eduardo for a referee's mistake to give a penalty.

No they're punishing Edwardo for getting a penalty by diving.
Can you not understand the concept of the punishment being proportional to the consequence of the dive? So a player dives, gets a yellow and no penalty - his team is at a slight disadvantage. Another player dives, fools the ref and gets a penalty - his team are at a massive advantage now, therefor the punishment should be harsher.

It's just like the law courts. Somebody is caught drink driving by the police - they a driving ban and a big fine. Somebody else kills somebody in an accident while drink driving - they get a driving ban and go to prison. The consequences of their crime are taken into account for the punishment.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

And it's no more cheating than the defender who plays the man instead of the ball because he knows he cant get back to prevent a scoring opportunity.

Are you honestly saying that you think defenders playing the man instead of the ball is as much of a blight on the game as the hundreds of fanny actors throwing themselves to the ground and writhing in fake agony every week, to try and get an advantage?

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Charging Eduardo successfully wont make a difference, because ultimately it's only the referee's that can enforce this.

How so? Imo rugby has shown how retro-active punishment can work in cleaning up the sport. As usual football is lagging far, far behind.

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Time and time again referee's just wave play on when they spot a dive, when by rights they should be giving yellow cards.

It's so easy to criticise referees, i don't see the point. They are obviously trying their best to make the correct calls each time. Imo their performance would improved if some of the pressure was taken off them but that's a whole other thread.

homah_7ft

In fairness when Eduardo dived he did cheat. You can be punished for cheating (not will, CAN). Good example, more of this please Uefa.

Galvasean

Pro. F wrote: »

No they're punishing Edwardo for getting a penalty by diving.
Can you not understand the concept of the punishment being proportional to the consequence of the dive? So a player dives, gets a yellow and no penalty - his team is at a slight disadvantage. Another player dives, fools the ref and gets a penalty - his team are at a massive advantage now, therefor the punishment should be harsher.

So, say Arsenal had been losing 1-0 against Celtic and Eduardo dived and got the penalty which sent Arsenal on a comeback and eventual victory. Would his punishment be worse than the Eduardo who dived and won a penalty when his team were already 2-0 up?
I think that could get very messy.

flahavaj

Diving is probably the main reason my interest in soccer isn't what it used to be, its totally offputting. If UEFA bringing in retrospective banning puts an end to it, then fair f*cking play to them. If they didn't do it in the past, so what? let them start now and set the precedent, I don't give a rats ass if Wenger thinks his players are being victimised tbh. Lets stamp this sh*t out for once and for all and to hell with the amount of people it annoys on the way.

cson

Pro. F wrote: »

Edwardo

He was deadly in the Halting Site World Cup wasn't he?

Pro. F

Galvasean wrote: »

So, say Arsenal had been losing 1-0 against Celtic and Eduardo dived and got the penalty which sent Arsenal on a comeback and eventual victory. Would his punishment be worse than the Eduardo who dived and won a penalty when his team were already 2-0 up?
I think that could get very messy.

If you're worried about it being messy then it could just be a fixed punishment regardless of the context. If it turns out that it's not too messy then it could be completely discretionary. Or it could be something in betwen the two. Whatever works.

Now, are you going to think up another possible problem in regulation and just throw your hands up or are you going to try and think of ways of improving and implementing the laws of the game?

It sickens me the way football fans, journos and managers just sit back and criticise any action or suggestion as if there is no possible solution to the problem of diving. No wonder football is such a badly organised sport.

gosplan

So, Eduardo booed when he came on and booed at every touch by the fans of a team that had Ronaldo for the last few years.

The worst thing is that it's no surprise and it's going to happen everywhere - nice one UEFA. :mad:

I also remembered today how powerless UEFA claimed to be with regards to rescinding Fletchers Red card and ban after the Arsenal Game last year - the poor guy missed a Cl final because of the ref's mistake.

So, can't help someone out but able to fu*k someone over - what an organisation.

Quint

flahavaj wrote: »

Diving is probably the main reason my interest in soccer isn't what it used to be, its totally offputting. If UEFA bringing in retrospective banning puts an end to it, then fair f*cking play to them. If they didn't do it in the past, so what? let them start now and set the precedent, I don't give a rats ass if Wenger thinks his players are being victimised tbh. Lets stamp this sh*t out for once and for all and to hell with the amount of people it annoys on the way.

Agree completely. Wenger is obviously up in arms because it was an Arsenal player, here's a quote from him to show you what he thought of diving before one of his players got banned from it:

"We have to fight it and there is only one way to punish people diving obviously: suspension. Once it is in the game it is difficult to get it out. Once a guy knows he might be punished he will not dive."

gosplan

Quint wrote: »

Agree completely. Wenger is obviously up in arms because it was an Arsenal player, here's a quote from him to show you what he thought of diving before one of his players got banned from it:

TBH, I'd say Wenger sticks by those comments. He's just a bit pissed off(as am I) that, without warning, an Arsenal player was picked as the first high profile player to be suspended when this thing happens every week.

Quint

gosplan wrote: »

TBH, I'd say Wenger sticks by those comments. He's just a bit pissed off(as am I) that, without warning, an Arsenal player was picked as the first high profile player to be suspended when this thing happens every week.

I think the whole reason a lot of people are happy about the ban is because finally someone is doing something about it. Who cares if others weren't banned? OK, they should be.
Imagine there was 100 murders in ireland last year. Is it better to let them all away, or prosecute just 1? If they're the 2 options, i'd rather 1 person get done. If it possibly starts a president that everyone will get done, FANTASTIC! It has to start somewhere. Wenger with his comments just shows himself up as a hypocrite. Although, with arsene "i didn't see it" wenger, it's no surprise

Galvasean

Quint wrote: »

I think the whole reason a lot of people are happy about the ban is because finally someone is doing something about it. Who cares if others weren't banned? OK, they should be.

I'm hoping that they will take action against every case of diving as blatant as Eduardo's, but the cynic in me thinks this wont happen

Quint wrote:

Imagine there was 100 murders in ireland last year. Is it better to let them all away, or prosecute just 1? If they're the 2 options, i'd rather 1 person get done.

Not to best comparison but I get what you mean. However, if say for every one diver that gets the book thrown at him this season, a bunch of equally bad divers walk away free it's hardly fair that some teams would be punished and others would be.

Quint wrote:

If it possibly starts a president that everyone will get done, FANTASTIC!

I agree with that much.

jank

Mitch Connor wrote: »

the slight contact is made AFTER Eduardo starts his dive to the ground, which makes it a dive, and not an embellishment on the contact made.

Yes I agree, so you must also agree that Rooney dived in the Arsenal United game as he was going to ground before contact was made...;)

gosplan

Quint wrote: »

I think the whole reason a lot of people are happy about the ban is because finally someone is doing something about it. Who cares if others weren't banned? OK, they should be.

I care because they're starting with an Arsenal player because of a rather British outcry against it.

Anyway, I've no problem with this action if it's effective in UFEA games from here on in, absolutely zero problem - I welcome it. It remains to be seen if it is or not. I fear not as it clearly wasn't planned for or they would have introduced it at the start of the season.

Quint wrote: »

Imagine there was 100 murders in ireland last year. Is it better to let them all away, or prosecute just 1? If they're the 2 options, i'd rather 1 person get done. If it possibly starts a president that everyone will get done, FANTASTIC!

Well that's the best analogy I've ever heard for anything. However, you see retrospective punishment for crimes like murder has actually been around for while. :rolleyes:

So the correct analogy would begin with "suppose murder is a crime but it's not really enforced. You get a short jail term if caught at the scene but if you get away with it initially, nothing ever happens .... blah blah blah"

Quint wrote: »

It has to start somewhere. Wenger with his comments just shows himself up as a hypocrite. Although, with arsene "i didn't see it" wenger, it's no surprise

Wow, TOP 4 MANAGER OCCASIONALLY MAKES HYPOCRITICAL COMMENTS! :eek:

Quick, don't tell anyone and ring the press, you might get the exclusive.

Redzer7

Mcgeady's Dive today was shocking :eek: got a yellow and was sent off.
If he didn't get a red he would defo not get a 2 match ban :rolleyes:.

Mossy Monk

I await the condemnation and the inevitable "you cannot compare the two dives" comments.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Could I be directed to the McGeady is a cheating diving scumbag thread please?

Frisbee

Mossy Monk

Mowbrays excuse was he was tired. LOL

Pepe LeFrits

http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,13989_5524514,00.html

Anyone seen the video angle which they are referring to?

Mossy Monk

Mossy Monk wrote: »

I await the condemnation and the inevitable "you cannot compare the two dives" comments.

Nobody? Lots of hypocrites on this board then.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,13989_5524514,00.html

Anyone seen the video angle which they are referring to?

First I have heard of it.

thorbarry

playa3 wrote: »

Could I be directed to the McGeady is a cheating diving scumbag thread please?

hahahaha

Liam O

Redzer7 wrote: »

Mcgeady's Dive today was shocking :eek: got a yellow and was sent off.
If he didn't get a red he would defo not get a 2 match ban :rolleyes:.

Sorry so in essence you are saying that if he didn't get a 1 match ban, he wouldn't get a 2 match ban? If he didn't get sent off he'd have gotten booked which has been the accepted punishment for diving for years. Also it's an SPL match, not the same rules as the UEFA competitions. He didn't 'deceive the ref either, he was caught, same as Eboue. I notice he didn't get a 2 match ban for trying to get Evra sent off. All this crap getting stirred up for every dive is really getting tiresome. The fact that you are calling complete non-dives (Rooney) dives and asking for them to be banned is getting really stupid.

WillieCocker

Good 'ol Aiden "Eduardo" McGeady.

Mossy Monk

Liam O wrote: »

He didn't 'deceive the ref either, he was caught, same as Eboue.

By this logic a 2 match ban is only applicable if the referee does not do his job correctly. Diving is diving. It doesn't matter if the referee sees you. It should be the same punishments for all. If UEFA want to rid this from the game then they need to crack down on all cases. If they do this it wont be long before it is stopped. Sadly it is looking like they only charged Eduardo because of media pressure.

Fuhrer

Mossy Monk wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the referee sees you.

Yeah but the point is, the referree cant always see whats happening from his angle. If a player knows this and he dives to cheat him, you dont think he should be punished later?

What if some player waits for the referree to run on past him and he turns around and punches someone, might be caught by the cameras but the linesmen and the referree were watching the action. You gonna say, sure he broke his jaw but the referree didnt see it so we cant punish him.

Mossy Monk

Fuhrer wrote: »

Yeah but the point is, the referree cant always see whats happening from his angle. If a player knows this and he dives to cheat him, you dont think he should be punished later?

Where did you see me even suggesting that. If one player is to be punnished for diving then all players must be punished regardless of what the referee does during the match. As events of the last week have shown video evidence can be used but as expected only one dive is being investigated. Disgraceful bull**** from UEFA

DoireNod

20 pages of discussion - you'll have to forgive me for not reading it all, but here's my opinion nonetheless:

If they don't bring in a 'Cam-Ref' type system, such as that used in Rugby, they have to impose much more stringent disciplinary procedures. For me, with respect to diving, that would be a lengthy ban from all competitions - say ten games - after examination from a reliable authority. At the end of the day, diving is cheating. It's in the same league as doping and players suffer accordingly when they dope, but can get away with it or receive a measly two match ban when they cheat in the form of diving. What's worse is that these people are supposed to be top professionals and role models to kids and this kind of behaviour is just sickening. The way Eduardo celebrated after he'd scored the penalty as if he had earned it was particularly annoying - but of course, this is not limited to that one incident, although it certainly is proving to be a catalyst of an incident.

If a ban for a red card can be rescinded after the fact and a ban for a foul can be extended for increased severity on closer inspection, then diving should be no different.

SuprSi

Eduardo banned for 2 games

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/keytopics/kind=512/newsid=881429.html

mike65

yep, now comes the lawsuit!

General Zod

He dived. He got punished, what is there to sue over?

Mr Alan

I hope Arsenal do try & sue these silly ***** tbh.

General Zod

Why?

Eduardo cheated. He got caught. Arsenal have nothing to complain about.

Bubs101

General Zod wrote: »

Why?

Eduardo cheated. He got caught. Arsenal have nothing to complain about.

Inconsistent punishment

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Here's what the club has to say:

Official Club statement - Eduardo

The Club is disappointed with Uefa’s decision to suspend Eduardo for two Champions League matches starting with Standard Liege on September 16.

We have been informed that we will receive a “reasoned decision” from Uefa by Thursday of this week. Once we receive Uefa’s rationale, we will make a decision on the next steps.


We have been deeply frustrated by the perfunctory and apparently arbitrary process that Uefa has followed in this instance. We believe it is imperative that Uefa’s explanation for its decision provides clear and comprehensive standards that will be consistently enforced. It is also critical that Uefa provides specific details of the processes it plans to adopt in reviewing all games under its jurisdiction.

leninbenjamin

playa3 wrote: »

We have been deeply frustrated by the perfunctory and apparently arbitrary process that Uefa has followed in this instance. We believe it is imperative that Uefa’s explanation for its decision provides clear and comprehensive standards that will be consistently enforced. It is also critical that Uefa provides specific details of the processes it plans to adopt in reviewing all games under its jurisdiction.

no one can argue with that tbh.

if it had happened outside the box, nothing would have been done, and Arsenal aren't the first team to benefit from incompetent refereeing so there's no moral high ground to be had on this issue. Afterall diving was rampant in the continental game long before it entered into the Premier league. Nobody said anything when Porto were diving left right and centre in the wafer cup they won against Celtic.

Shows where UEFA's priorities lie in this imo, they don't give a sh*t as long as the press see them in a good light and the money keeps rolling in. Afterall Arsenal and Lithuania are much easier targets than those teams with a global fan base like Real...

cson

If this case is precedent for the rest of the season then fair enough. If not, its a disgrace and just further evidence of a reactionary witch hunt that occured because the tabloids had nothing coming close to transfer news for the month August and just decided to run with Eduardo the villan.

I'd propose an independant citing commissioner a la rugby who could view incidents after the weekend and punish accordingly. But no, UEFA will pick and choose their moments.

Running Bing

Great lets hope the precedent is set.

I dont understand all the whining tbh....are'nt all decisions pretty arbitrary?

What I mean is loads of players get away with bad tackles where for the same thing others have been sent off. A refs decision is arbitrary...even if a camera system comes in it will be reviewed and a decision will be made...a decision that is the opinion of a panel just like this.

It was clearly a dive, this sort of behaviour is having a huge detrimental effect on the game and he was punished....like I said I think its a great development and hope its the first ban of many...its the only way to curb this behaviour.

Mossy Monk

If this happens consistantly great. If not then I see a court case coming soon.

OPENROAD

Anyone know about the video clip from a different angle which appears to show that he was clipped?

Frisbee

As long as every single dive in the Champions League and Europa League is punished in the same way it's a brilliant initiative and I hope it catches on.

However if this is a one off and an example is being made of Eduardo then I hope Arsenal's lawyer's hit UEFA with a massive law suit at the first instance of diving not being punished