Aer Lingus Still Haemorrhaging Money

Jim236

If you wana go back far enough Ryanair put out the same cheesy ads:

I dunno how anyone can call those the glory days when Aer Lingus had a monopoly on just about every route, and charged through the roof for a ticket meaning flying was limited to the rich and wealthy. Thanks to Ryanair(and the British government to be fair to them), anyone can travel for fcuk all now. If anything I'd say the past ten years were the glory days of Irish aviation because fares will never be as low as they were then.

FlutterinBantam

civildefence wrote: »

God be with the days.... used to be so proud that this was our national airline

Unfortunately, all that stuff has a cost, doesn't come cheaply.

Needs well educated workers, people who understand customer service.

That understanding and training has a price,a price the traveling public of today are not prepared to pay.

Ce la vie

barryfield

civildefence wrote: »

I fly regularly and I avoid FR where possible, I have had so many bad experiences with them. EI may charge a bit more, but 'you get what you pay' for as the man says.

EI will not go under as it will always be rescued by the state.

Yea sure , but whos going rescue the state ?

Laphroaig52

Big_G wrote: »

I'm sorry but its about convenience. And Ryanair don't exactly make it easy for you to stay within their 'rules'. I'm glad you haven't had any problems with Ryanair, but I have had problems several times when not adhering to their 'rules'. Such as the time I got a bus back from Paris to Beauvais to find out it was the wrong bus by 10 minutes and Ryanair wouldn't let me board the flight, despite it still sitting on the tarmac at the terminal. Thanks a bunch. Not to mention the flight from Milan, as I talked about previously.

No such problems with Aer Lingus. Because they are just a better service.

Rubbish. Aer Lingus (and every other airline) would have treated you the same in those circumstances. Once the doors are closed on the aircraft, certain operational and security procedures are initiated and it is not a trivial matter to allow late passengers on board...irrespective of how long it sits on the tarmac. It's not the 46A your jumping on to....

Laphroaig52

civildefence wrote: »

Does anyone agree that in general EI service is far better than FR and therefore is worth the money?

It depends on how much money your talking about...

Anyway, what kind of service are you talking about? Once your seated on board the plane, I don't think there is much difference .

Ryanair's seat pitch might be slightly smaller but the seats in front doesn't recline so overall little difference there.

Ryanair's cabin crew are no more or no less friendly than Aer Lingus's and the food is equally bad and over priced on both.

Ryanair have better punctuality and that is the most important aspect of service for me....especially on the short haul routes that they generally fly.

civildefence

Flyer28 wrote: »

It depends on how much money your talking about...

Anyway, what kind of service are you talking about? Once your seated on board the plane, I don't think there is much difference .

Ryanair's seat pitch might be slightly smaller but the seats in front doesn't recline so overall little difference there.

Ryanair's cabin crew are no more or no less friendly than Aer Lingus's and the food is equally bad and over priced on both.

Ryanair have better punctuality and that is the most important aspect of service for me....espeically on the short haul routes that they generally fly.

Ryanair are statistically more punctual, but i've only ever heard the stupid jingle once. In my experience EI cabin crew are far more professional and attentive that FR. EI seats are more comfortable. I feel safer on their aircraft. The boarding arrangements alone have me sold.
For some people its all about the price, I prefer to pay a small bit extra for what I feel is a decent service. Also EI baggage handlers have yet to steal from my luggage.

old boy

aer lingus are the only airline that could not provide me with a wheelchair, despite having booked it six months in advance, plus making it clear at check in, five hours before take off, this was at jfk. lovely walk for a disabled person, only for the immigration people it would have been an awful lot worse.

Jim236

civildefence wrote: »

Ryanair are statistically more punctual, but i've only ever heard the stupid jingle once. In my experience EI cabin crew are far more professional and attentive that FR. EI seats are more comfortable. I feel safer on their aircraft. The boarding arrangements alone have me sold.
For some people its all about the price, I prefer to pay a small bit extra for what I feel is a decent service. Also EI baggage handlers have yet to steal from my luggage.

Whatever about Aer Lingus crew being more attentive or professional, you've no reason to think you're any safer flying with Aer Lingus. Also Ryanair contract out baggage handling to Servisair, so if you've had anything stolen from your bags then blame Servisair, not Ryanair.

Laphroaig52

civildefence wrote: »

Ryanair are statistically more punctual, but i've only ever heard the stupid jingle once. In my experience EI cabin crew are far more professional and attentive that FR. EI seats are more comfortable. I feel safer on their aircraft. The boarding arrangements alone have me sold.
For some people its all about the price, I prefer to pay a small bit extra for what I feel is a decent service. Also EI baggage handlers have yet to steal from my luggage.

Are the Aer Lingus seats more comfortable? Perhaps. But to your question... is it worth paying an extra 10, 20, 30 Euro for an hour or so of (marginal) extra comfort?

For boarding, Ryanair passengers can avail of priority boarding for an extra 3 Euro but few do. Perhaps this answers the question.

I'm not sure where the perception that Aer Lingus planes are safer comes from. Ryanair's planes are newer and more modern than Aer Lingus's. I'm not suggesting that Aer Lingus's aircraft are any less safe but there is no statistics to even suggest that Ryanair's fleet or operations are in any way unsafe.

For me reliability and punctuality are priority on short haul flights and with
Ryanair I generally get that for cheaper than what Aer Lingus charge.

Big_G

senordingdong wrote: »

Hang on a moment, lets looks at this for a second, you missed check in.
You were late, whether by on minute or one hour, you were late, that's hardly Ryanairs fault.
Also, you spoke of being caught on baggage charges in Milan, again, this sounds like it was your fault. No offence like.

As for service provided...I'm going to say that this is a personal matter.
I've had great experiences with Ryanair, and bad expreiences with Aer Lingus.

Anyway, I would be happy to see Aer Lingus absorbed into Ryanair becasue I think it's sham of an organisation, like the FAI.

It was a Ryanair bus that was taking us from Paris to Beauvais. Wouldn't have had this problem if I had flown to CDG with EI. Screw FR.

Aer Lingus are not a sham organisation. And if they weren't tethered by the unions they would be a much more successful org.

It does seem to be personal. God help us if Ryanair goes transatlantic...

gurramok

Jim236 wrote: »

Ryanair charge €5 per person for online check-in. The only time you don't pay for it is when they have special offers, all other times you have to pay for it. Whereas Aer Lingus charge between €12 and €18 depending on where you're going, but thats for everyone, so if you're travelling in a group you're actually saving a lot of money compared to Ryanair.



Aer Arann don't charge for check-in but people still chose Ryanair over them on the Dublin-Cork route. Aer Arann were flying up to 10 times daily at one point I think before Ryanair came on the route, now they're down to twice daily, and Ryanair are flying 5 times daily on 189-seater jets.

All people care about are the fares, bring them down and you'll fill seats, they don't care about little extras like online check-in.

That was not the point. Its the cost of check-in that is a factor pushing up the price.
Aer Lingus don't have this facility so their prices are automatically higher, its Aer Lingus at a disadvantage before other costs are taken into account

Jim236

gurramok wrote: »

That was not the point. Its the cost of check-in that is a factor pushing up the price.

If you mean the cost of their check-in staff is pushing up prices, I wouldn't agree. Aer Lingus' fares aren't much higher than Ryanairs on most routes. It is eating into their revenues though, hence why they're losing so much money...

gurramok wrote: »

Aer Lingus don't have this facility so their prices are automatically higher, its Aer Lingus at a disadvantage before other costs are taken into account

Aer Lingus do have online check-in...

civildefence

Jim236 wrote: »

Whatever about Aer Lingus crew being more attentive or professional, you've no reason to think you're any safer flying with Aer Lingus. Also Ryanair contract out baggage handling to Servisair, so if you've had anything stolen from your bags then blame Servisair, not Ryanair.

Ryanair also employ their own baggage handlers directly. This was stated to me by a Ryanair official, by the Gardai at the airport and the Airport police. So i'm blaming Ryanair.

gurramok

Jim236 wrote: »

If you mean the cost of their check-in staff is pushing up prices, I wouldn't agree. Aer Lingus' fares aren't much higher than Ryanairs on most routes. It is eating into their revenues though, hence why they're losing so much money...

Funny that, i've always found Aer Lingus fares alot higher than Aer Lingus on the same routes to the same airports.

Aer Lingus do have online check-in...

It ain't free!! Hence my point it pushes up the air fare!

Jim236

gurramok wrote: »

Funny that, i've always found Aer Lingus fares alot higher than Aer Lingus on the same routes to the same airports.

Have you found them higher than Ryanair's though?;) In fairness, I've compared prices between the 2 meself and a lot of times Aer Lingus are actually cheaper than Ryanair, and Ryanair will always try charge a fortune where they can, such as routes to Malaga, Faro, Nice etc. I'm not sayin Aer Lingus are always cheaper than Ryanair, they're clearly not, just sayin Ryanair aren't always cheaper than Aer Lingus.

gurramok wrote: »

It ain't free!! Hence my point it pushes up the air fare!

Neither is Ryanair!! And they charge per person, not per flight. But Aer Lingus online check-in is actually free on long-haul if you only have 1 bag, they only charge if its more than that.

I don't get your point here anyway, you don't seem to understand why Aer Lingus are losing money. Its nothing to do with their fares being too high or excess staff pushing the prices up, their average fare has actually come down by 17% since last year.
Aer Lingus' problem is that they're trying to bring down their fares to compete with Ryanair but with a costbase thats 10x higher. Aer Lingus have actually expanded on short-haul and their passenger numbers and load factor have risen too, so people clearly don't give a toss about online check-in fees and why would they? They don't have a choice, Aer Lingus and Ryanair are the dominant carriers in Ireland and both charge for online check-in, as do several other carriers.

So scrapping the check-in fee wouldn't help them. All that would happen is they'd lose more revenue, have less money to pay staff and costs, and wouldn't gain any passengers from Ryanair.

The only thing Aer Lingus can do to turn a profit again is reduce staff, outsource some services such as ground handling and catering(which is sh&t anyway), and cut wages across the board.

senordingdong

Big_G wrote: »

It was a Ryanair bus that was taking us from Paris to Beauvais. Wouldn't have had this problem if I had flown to CDG with EI. Screw FR.

Aer Lingus are not a sham organisation. And if they weren't tethered by the unions they would be a much more successful org.

It does seem to be personal. God help us if Ryanair goes transatlantic...

Hmmm, I've used that service in Beauvais.
But I'm not sure if Ryanair are actually in charge of it.

I was under the impression that it was a thrid party company.

Also, one thing that was pointed out her and seems to be getting ignored by the Ryanair nay sayers...is that Aer Lingus had a bloody monopoly for a long time, and rode everyone to town and back with fares.
Now they're feeling to scorn of the consumer because of this.

I honestly don't think Ryanair would take this route.

ixoy

Never really had trouble with Ryanair although I've found Aer Lingus' have tended to fly into more convenient locations at roughly the same price so tended to go with them.

However, with Aer Lingus I've twice had the threat (not realised) of industrial action hanging over my holiday and now there's a chance of it happening again. If that does happen, I'd happily let it finally go to the damned wall and never book with them again. If they can't sort themselves out internally, then let them fall.

Laphroaig52

civildefence wrote: »

Ryanair also employ their own baggage handlers directly. This was stated to me by a Ryanair official, by the Gardai at the airport and the Airport police. So i'm blaming Ryanair.

Well, if your luggage was stolen or interfered with, you are absolutely right to blame Ryanair.

You entrusted your bag to them and expected them to deliver it safely to your destination. Whether or not they subcontracted the baggage handling is irrelevant...they (Ryanair ) are still solely responsible for it.

squod

Big_G wrote: »

Aer Lingus are not a sham organisation. And if they weren't tethered by the unions they would be a much more successful org.

Big news to me and critisising the bluddy union is like critisising your own left hand.
They both need to go if progress is to be made. Get rid of both then start over. It's the only way IMO.

BTW when I fly I fly from Belfast on an Aer Lingus plane generally.
And it's always bluddy cheaper and more efficient than Dublin.

Fulton Crown

Jim236 wrote: »

Have you found them higher than Ryanair's though?;) In fairness, I've compared prices between the 2 meself and a lot of times Aer Lingus are actually cheaper than Ryanair, and Ryanair will always try charge a fortune where they can, such as routes to Malaga, Faro, Nice etc. I'm not sayin Aer Lingus are always cheaper than Ryanair, they're clearly not, just sayin Ryanair aren't always cheaper than Aer Lingus.



Neither is Ryanair!! And they charge per person, not per flight. But Aer Lingus online check-in is actually free on long-haul if you only have 1 bag, they only charge if its more than that.

I don't get your point here anyway, you don't seem to understand why Aer Lingus are losing money. Its nothing to do with their fares being too high or excess staff pushing the prices up, their average fare has actually come down by 17% since last year.
Aer Lingus' problem is that they're trying to bring down their fares to compete with Ryanair but with a costbase thats 10x higher. Aer Lingus have actually expanded on short-haul and their passenger numbers and load factor have risen too, so people clearly don't give a toss about online check-in fees and why would they? They don't have a choice, Aer Lingus and Ryanair are the dominant carriers in Ireland and both charge for online check-in, as do several other carriers.

So scrapping the check-in fee wouldn't help them. All that would happen is they'd lose more revenue, have less money to pay staff and costs, and wouldn't gain any passengers from Ryanair.

The only thing Aer Lingus can do to turn a profit again is reduce staff, outsource some services such as ground handling and catering(which is sh&t anyway), and cut wages across the board.

Well said and absolutely spot on pal..the only other major factor in the hedging of fuel prices which is notoriously difficult to get right.

Management are finally having to grasp the nettle that they knew they would have to - overstaffing and legacy pay rates that are completely out
of kilter with the current business model.

With the pilots firmly in the firing line expect some turbulence !

We are coming to the final throw of the dice for this company who,as another poster rightly said"rode the public mercilessly when they had the monopoly."

I see the Indo today had a feature on Aer Lingus cabin staff uniforms down through the years..what utter shyte ....very little chance of them doing a feature on ,ho say postmans uniforms have changed.

To survive - the remaining dinosaurs in this company must be ruthlessly culled and made face economic reality.