Can we expect a major political "spectacular" prior to the October Lisbon Referendum?

meglome

nullzero wrote: »

I give up, you just ake so much of what I say out of context and don't even accept that in doing so you're making sweeping statements about me because it's easy for you to do so.

You might not believe this but that certainly wasn't my intention. I'm really just trying to get to the bottom of your No vote. You can vote No because you don't like colour of the ballot paper if you want but I was curious to know your motivations, I've given mine.

nullzero wrote: »

The political elites are elected by people like us, that's true, I fail to see what your point is though. Did you think I don't know how the political system works? I can't say I'm wild about your condescending take on "educating" the ignorant fools who disagree with you.

A lot of people might disagree with me over any number of things. I'm talking specifically about the large number of people who voted on a treaty based on things that are not in that treaty. That would seem foolish to me, do you think it's a good thing to do?

nullzero wrote: »

As for fear tactics in relation to Lisbon, I can't believe that anyone would even think that the Yes side aren't employing them.
I'm not advocating knee jerk material from uninformed members of the No campaign, so don't force words into my mouth.
The Yes campaign would seem to be the only side getting any serious air time in the media in the lead up to the second referendum.

Well show me all this fearmongering from the Yes side?
I went to the shops earlier and pretty much every lamposts in whole area has those posters from the picture I posted earlier, you remember the ones that have those lies and misrepresentations on them. Yeah the poor No side.

nullzero wrote: »

We're being told to buck up our ideas and vote Yes or otherwise we'll find ourselves with no economic future and we'll be outcasts in Europe, with everyone else tutting disapprovingly at our stubborn attitude.
Bear in mind that saying we have no economic future if we vote No at a time when there are vast swathes of people losing their jobs having their homes repossessed and unable to put food in the table is fear mongering of the highest order.
What the Yes campaign are doing is making voting Yes a survival mechanism for the people of Ireland.

I hate to point this out to you but we're in the financial toilet from our own stupidity. We really need the EU, and only for them we'd be like Iceland i.e. bankrupt. The EU give us money each and very year so I imagine it wouldn't be too much to ask to Vote No on EU treaties for reasons that are in the treaty.

nullzero wrote: »

The shenanigans of the No sides grass roots level campaign in contrast to the slick media driven Yes campaign are inconsequential at best.
The Yes side are using fear, tell me I'm wrong about that again, and then back it the **** up for once.

But the No side won the last vote and when people were asked they gave the exact reasons the No people were pushing, the ones that are not even in the treaty. Must be a weird coincidence, right?
I've provided pictorial proof of the No sides tactics, a picture I took myself (you know the posters that are all over my area now), if you want to show the Yes side are doing the same then I'd suggest you provide it. Otherwise I'll have to assume you can't as it's not happening.

And maybe you can explain where Cóir are getting all this money for posters all over town, for this 'grass roots' campaign? Rumour is their money comes from right wing organisation outside of Ireland. I have no idea if that's true but I'd like to know for sure.

nullzero wrote: »

You're more than entitled to have your opinion, and thats fine by me, but don't you dare put words in my mouth and associate me with people and groups I have nothing to do with just becasue it's serves your little opinion pieces.
Disagree with me all you like, but stop taking what I say out of context and putting words in my mouth, a bit of basic respect wouldn't go amiss Meglome.

I'm even quoting your original posts for clarity so there can be no misunderstanding. Why are you voting No?

bcmf

Back to the ORIGINAL QUESTION.
Yes I expect some sort of major 'stepping in from Europe' to 'save' "us" and then turn around and be told that without Europe we are going to sink into the Atlantic.
going slightly off topic
Right up until very close to polling of the first Lisbon I was undecided. I listened to both sides and when you have Govt ministers,the people whose fate of the country they hold in their hands, demonstrating and admitting that they didnt even read it..............
then they went on a tour trying to find out why we voted NO and all I heard was "we WILL change this.." and "This WILL change......."
Not once have I heard "We HAVE changed this...".
If there is footage or a link of someone in Authority in Europe stating on the record in relation Ireland and Lisbon please post the link as I missed it.

What truly annoys me is the fact that we are being asked to vote again because the Govt were asleep and caught off guard in the first vote. Anybody see the link here to the economy and the utter mess we are in....?

Riht now I am struggling to Vote Yes. And if we Vote NO again the I will buy a boat and before this island sinks into the Atlantic I will set sail for France because at least they have the balls to stand up for what they believe.

gline

Could they use the swine-flu scare in some way to help scaremonger people into voting yes?

Torakx

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not long ago we had a major Pork crisis, Our pig industry looked as if it could have been doomed. Hundreds and thousands of tonnes of pork was destroyed or put into cold storage.

The EU intervened with a wink wink nod nod and assured the Irish Government and farmers that it had nothing to worry about. What a sigh of relief. It showed both the Government and farmers what weight the EU Parlament had on descisions.

At the moment the EU politicians are very careful not to rock the boat in this country. Nothing will be put on our plate between now and October that would pi*s off the populations.

Already unemployment, downturn in economy have been put down by the cronies as excuses and a reason that we should be voting Yes. This may not be enough. Can we expect a major political spectacular just prior to the referendum to try to sway a major Yes vote landslide? Should we be prepared for such?

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good point. and i think it could go both ways really.
if you look at the tactics of most economic takeovers first you cause chaos then you come in after and clean up and be the savour.
hitler used this,the americans use this still,and i wouldnt be suprised if we had a massive flu outbreak in ireland followed by a good few deaths and then eu help to save the day.
or something like that.

or we could vote no and suffer a major economic crisis then asked do we want to change our minds lol

nullzero

I've told you on anumber of occassions why I'm voting No, it's possible that the reasons I have given have not been up to your standards, ie, they don't agree with your opinion.

I don't think that the EU is heading in the correct direction.
A body such as the EU which has so many large countries as members is always going to be cumbersome and difficult to run, but simply reducing the amount of people who are needed to make decisions when it's quite clear that the decisions made may not always be in the best interest of everyone in the EU most notably the smaller nations.

I'm not a euro sceptic, I think the EU can definitley be a fantastic force for good, but not as a centralised super state where the people have no say.
What needs to be the EU's primary concern is creating sustainable employment all over the EU in light of the fact that we(Eurpeans) find ourselves undercut by cheaper labour in other countries/regions.
The EU should start paying more attention to the sustainable economic capabilites of each of it's member states and tailoring industries and training of workers to suit. If each EU member could play to their strengths within a union we would see the EU's potential emerge.

I do not however believe that the current route the EU is taking which is one based on the failed economic and social structures of the past is the way forward. I believe the Lisbon treaty is an exercise in fulitity in as much as it simply takes is further down a road we know is a road to nowhere albeit one we can see no easy alternative to. Being afraid of what EU power brokers might do to us in light of a possible No vote should be enough evidence to show the true colours of the EU top brass as being dubious at best.
None of us wants the sword of damocles above our heads, but we might consider why it is there in the first place.

As for fear tactics in Lisbon posters, I have seen the COIR posters, seen the reaction and I can understand peoples concerns.
I have also been hearing and seeing nothing but pro Lisbon propaganda in the media since the second treaty was announced. It's only in the last week to ten days we have been hit with a barrage of No campaign rhetoric.
The Yes camapaign have been telling the bold little children of Ireland to stop dragging their heels and vote Yes or else we're all going even further into the ****ter.

There are fear tactics on both sides this is a FACT.
Just because you're pro Lisbon doesn't mean the Yes side is whiter than white, I'm anti Lisbon and am capabale of seeing flaws on both sides of the divide, it's called being rational.

If you want to fling mud at people who are voting No, go right ahead.
I wont be flinging any back at you.

ynotdu

Riht now I am struggling to Vote Yes. And if we Vote NO again the I will buy a boat and before this island sinks into the Atlantic I will set sail for France because at least they have the balls to stand up for what they believe.

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Dont you mean the legislators in France had the *balls*to vote yes?

the people of France did not have the opportunity to vote Yay or Nay(like just about every country it will impact)


strange how it should once again fall on a tiny eu nation to save/scupper a treaty that suits the *big guns* in Europe(whilst we take the flak many Countries are hoping for a no vote privatly)

It occurs to me that a Nation that could not Rule Europe via two world wars may get to enjoy the prize by appeasement from those who did NOT have the balls to hold referenda.

bonkey

Folks - this is not the "Politics Lite" forum. It is not just another venue to rehash the debate of the Lisbon Treaty.

Either discuss the topic at hand, or the thread will be closed.

squod

nullzero wrote: »

I give up, you just ake so much of what I say out of context and don't even accept that in doing so you're making sweeping statements about me because it's easy for you to do so.

Don't give up. Don't forget other people read your posts also.
For me the Lisbon threads belong primarily in the CT section. This is classic consipacy stuff. I just hope there's a general election in the UK sometime soon and the conservatives win, that'll take the pressure off and let people debate the points without fear.

There's no reason for us to vote again, that's my view.

bcmf

Dont you mean the legislators in France had the *balls*to vote yes?

the people of France did not have the opportunity to vote Yay or Nay(like just about every country it will impact)


sorry what I meant was in general terms not just with relation to Lisbon.

Torakx

this is all very relevant to the conspiracy forum.
or should we discuss this in politics? i dont understand are we allowed to discuss this anywhere on these forums?
sorry just getting confused on where i can post threads.
not being smart but there are conspiracy's about that actually relate to real life. so if we cannot discuss these scenarios in politics surely in conspiracy's its acceptable. so far anyone in this forum seems happy enough with the comments so far.

bonkey

The thread is about the possibility of a political spectacular. If that's what you want to discuss, then disucss it here.

If you want to dscuss how Lisbon is evil and stuff, thats not what this thread is about.

If you want to discuss some other conspiratorial aspect, then start a seperate thread. Even start a generic "Lisbon Treaty - Conspiracies" one. Just don't use it as an excuse to re-tread the political discussion.

ilivetolearn

bonkey wrote: »

conspiratorial

Nice. Added to lexicon.

meglome

Can ask all the more conspiracy inclined people here a question. What happens when there is no spectacular around the Lisbon treaty? The reason I ask is time after time someone makes claim about a specific date or time period and when nothing happens they just slink off and don't mention it. I expect 2012 will be the same as all the many other times people have told us 'something big' is going to happen and it doesn't

ilivetolearn

meglome wrote: »

Can ask all the more conspiracy inclined people here a question. What happens when there is no spectacular around the Lisbon treaty? The reason I ask is time after time someone makes claim about a specific date or time period and when nothing happens they just slink off and don't mention it. I expect 2012 will be the same as all the many other times people have told us 'something big' is going to happen and it doesn't

Why do you think that all 'conspiracy inclined people' believe that there will be a 'spectacular'? I think you need to fine tune your target audience.

In any case, it's an interesting question. Are you braced for 09/09/09? Admittedly I fell prey to such numerological theories either on the eve of 98 or 99 as the result of a little doomsday hype originating from my school year. I recited a novena. Sad, but true.

gline

meglome wrote: »

Can ask all the more conspiracy inclined people here a question. What happens when there is no spectacular around the Lisbon treaty? The reason I ask is time after time someone makes claim about a specific date or time period and when nothing happens they just slink off and don't mention it. I expect 2012 will be the same as all the many other times people have told us 'something big' is going to happen and it doesn't

As with everyother "theory", if nothing does happen, it will be just proven to be incorrect theory, no biggie

ilivetolearn

gline wrote: »

As with everyother "theory", if nothing does happen, it will be just proven to be incorrect theory, no biggie

I wouldn't have problem if was as simple as that. In many cases (other sites) I've seen the failure of such theories poorly justified as a misinterpretation and rehashed. Doomsday theories are a perfect example.

meglome

meglome wrote: »

Can ask all the more conspiracy inclined people here a question. What happens when there is no spectacular around the Lisbon treaty? The reason I ask is time after time someone makes claim about a specific date or time period and when nothing happens they just slink off and don't mention it. I expect 2012 will be the same as all the many other times people have told us 'something big' is going to happen and it doesn't

So did the political spectacular happen? I didn't seem to notice one.

Run_to_da_hills

meglome wrote: »

So did the political spectacular happen? I didn't seem to notice one.

The State of the economy is a big spectacular in its self and the powers utilized this to sway the sheeple with the empty promises of jobs of which of course will never materialize because the EU will sanction multimillion relocation grants to allow US Multinationals to relocate to Eastern Europe and Turkey.

Big cry from the population in two years time, "I voted yes, wheres my fuc*ng job". Where is my dole? Of course that will be reduced to almost nothing. You will be then told to shut up and if you speak out about it you can expect this and this. :eek:

humanji

So that's a no then.

gerrycollins

humanji wrote: »

So that's a no then.

you did have Berossa come over to limerick offering compensation for the affected dell workers.

humanji

Hardly a major political spectacular though, is it?

meglome

humanji wrote: »

Hardly a major political spectacular though, is it?

I reckon it's just easier to tell a big story than accept the really boring dull truth.

TCP/IP_King

meglome wrote: »

So did the political spectacular happen? I didn't seem to notice one.

You missed the Fianna Fail conspiracy completely - JODs expense account was published on the day of the referendum - FF manufactured the whole Lisbon thing QED

meglome

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

You missed the Fianna Fail conspiracy completely - JODs expense account was published on the day of the referendum - FF manufactured the whole Lisbon thing QED

Ah okay. I'd imagine that Fianna Fail will get what's coming to them in the near future and I for one will enjoy that. Still not very spectacular, I was promised so much more (again).

uprising

meglome wrote: »

Can ask all the more conspiracy inclined people here a question. What happens when there is no spectacular around the Lisbon treaty? The reason I ask is time after time someone makes claim about a specific date or time period and when nothing happens they just slink off and don't mention it. I expect 2012 will be the same as all the many other times people have told us 'something big' is going to happen and it doesn't

I never said there would have been a spectacular, although if there had I wouldn't have been surprised.

Undergod

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You will be then told to shut up and if you speak out about it you can expect this and this. :eek:

Do I get to keep the doggie?

gerrycollins

humanji wrote: »

Hardly a major political spectacular though, is it?

oh ya minimal almost non existant if you ask me anyways the money I think is not direct compensation so worthelss as a bribe.